Rank our post-SAF managers

King Azaz the Unabridged said:
Only if you're using results under that management to assess the squad's quality, which is my entire point. It's like saying our current squad isn't top 4 worthy because we're 8th right now.

Going to say this again: we finished 28 points ahead of Liverpool, 26 ahead of Everton, 17 ahead of Spurs and 16 ahead of Arsenal in 2013. We finished behind them all the next season with point swings of 48, 34, 22 and 31 respectively. You're having a laugh if you think it was just Fergie propping us up over all of them by that magnitude.
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This is a very weak point really. Klopp went from 2nd to relegation zone with Pool, does that mean he is a crap manager or that the squad nosedived in such fashion it became from title challenger to relegation battler.

you can’t be serious if you reckon that team should’ve finished above pool for example based on the year before:wenger: that’s absolute nonsense and football doesn’t work like that.
 
King Azaz the Unabridged said:
Only if you're using results under that management to assess the squad's quality, which is my entire point (across the entire rest of that post). It's like saying our current squad isn't top 4 worthy because we're 8th right now.

Going to say this again: we finished 28 points ahead of Liverpool, 26 ahead of Everton, 17 ahead of Spurs and 16 ahead of Arsenal in 2013. We finished behind them all the next season with point swings of 48, 34, 22 and 31 respectively. You're having a laugh if you think it was just Fergie propping us up over all of them by that magnitude.
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The fact LVG dispersed with most of it speaks volumes. Our lack of depth was brutally exposed. Hernandez in for RVP, Buttner getting minutes, Rio turning to absolute garbage. We can debate Moyes all we like but the main problem is, and always has been, Ed Woodward.

The fact Moyes is able to rapidly identify and sign players at West Ham while Woody the Pecker was unable to sign any targets speaks to how utterly useless he was in that window. He overcorrected by splashing the cash with wild abandon under LVG, but by then it was too late.
 
With Ferguson still in charge 2013/14 season United would have secured a top 4 place with at least 10 games to spare. He had the ability to get his team to provide the necessary work rate, passion and desire that is required for United but his recommendation for his replacement should have been ignored.
 
Vaibhav Raj said:
My bad there. Let me rephrase Solskjaer finished 2nd and 3rd in his mangerial reign whereas Mourinho managed to drop out of top four and into sixth position.
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We're at 8 now. Would be lower with games ahead (Chelsea, inform Palace, Arsenal) hahaha. Comparing someone like Mou with Ole. I have no idea why I am even replying to this. I should just laugh.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Klopp went from 2nd to relegation zone with Pool
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What on earth? No, he didn't.

I can only imagine you're talking about Dortmund in 2014/15 here, in which case: 1) they didn't end the season in the relegation zone, they were 7th, and 2) Klopp obviously underperformed massively that season, just like Moyes did with us, as shown by the fact that they went right back to 2nd in 2015/16 with largely the same squad. Can you please explain how you think this backs up your point?
 
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LawmanMan said:
The fact LVG dispersed with most of it speaks volumes. Our lack of depth was brutally exposed. Hernandez in for RVP, Buttner getting minutes, Rio turning to absolute garbage. We can debate Moyes all we like but the main problem is, and always has been, Ed Woodward.
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He got less than 500. And virtually all of them came at the tail end of the season, when Moyes was a dead man walking.

Woodward and his transfer market incompetence aren't really relevant here. My argument was that we had a squad good enough to at the very least compete for the top 4 that season, and the reason we didn't was because the manager completely bungled it.
 
I was listening to Counterattack on Sirius tonight and the announcer was saying that Ole hadn't failed, that the players had failed Ole. So going with that philosophy, I think this ranking has to rank the -- post Utd players not the managers.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Di Matteo has a UCL. By your logic you will take him over the likes of Ten Hag or Nagelsmann.

Just saying.
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About the cup counter aspect, this is true for nearly all of the cases. It's one of the most important criteria to judge, history doesn't count runner up so that Ten Hag and other potential coaches must take the risk to get out the comfort zone. I agree that Di Matteo may be a lucky one,so to be fair anyone must win big tournament at least twice to be proved as tier one manager. Ole got nothing, if he is good, other quality teams will offer him a good position for sure.

About pattern of play, none of these coaches provided a good consistent style. The common one is set back and wait for the counter attack opportunity, nothing to say much.

Regard transfer matter, except Moyes, all of the rest have spent a ton of money then getting poor results.

Regard relationship between players and the manager, it's simply can't judge a performance of a team base on that. It's depend on the coach characteristic.
 
Hold on, why do people say Ole took us from 6th? He was the one in charge when we finished 6th, the squad finished 2nd the season before. Just to be clear you guys saying this do realise it means Ole's final position should be taken as where the interim manager has us finish this season and not the 2nd place he finished last season. Hope you won't suddenly have a problem with this logic when that happens.
 
1) most trophies (viral Jose)
2) best football (go do your magic Ole)
3) theatrics (Touchline fall LVG)
4) Crosses (Fulham moyes)
 
Jack Landers said:
We're at 8 now. Would be lower with games ahead (Chelsea, inform Palace, Arsenal) hahaha. Comparing someone like Mou with Ole. I have no idea why I am even replying to this. I should just laugh.
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I don't know what you're doing replying to this post either because you clearly haven't read through the other comments I made in the exchange with another poster. I wasn't comparing Mourinho the manager to Ole the manager. Mourinho is a better coach than Ole. I was comparing Mourinho's reign as Manchester United manager to that of Ole's. I have already said what I had to say in regards to why the two campaigns are pretty close to each other interns of managerial quality offered by the two men. You're more than welcome to go back in the thread and read my arguments or, if you're too lazy to do that, laugh it all off.
 
Had Mourinho left after the 2018 cup final, I think many would have argued that he steadied the ship and was comfortably our best manager post Fergie.

He ultimately stayed too long and history now looks at him in a very different light.
 
LawmanMan said:
The fact LVG dispersed with most of it speaks volumes. Our lack of depth was brutally exposed. Hernandez in for RVP, Buttner getting minutes, Rio turning to absolute garbage. We can debate Moyes all we like but the main problem is, and always has been, Ed Woodward.

The fact Moyes is able to rapidly identify and sign players at West Ham while Woody the Pecker was unable to sign any targets speaks to how utterly useless he was in that window. He overcorrected by splashing the cash with wild abandon under LVG, but by then it was too late.
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This take puts all the blame of LVG's abysmal transfer record on Woodward.

LVG massively overrated his own scouting abilities. If Rojo is your 7th choice CB because you saw a handful of Argentina games you clearly havent invested enough time in scouting and shouldve delegated more. Virgil and De Vrij weren't on the list because he has a fetish for left footed centre backs.

You can't expect every target to be available, especially when you're not in the CL.

We missed out on a lot of good players under LVG and the dross he signed set us back massively.

I doubt our next manager is going to lament Ole signed Bruno, VDB, Sancho, Varane and Ronnie. Every team in the world could use those.
 
Different ways to measure.
I think Oles recruitment has been overrated to an extent, your telling me the £85m on Maguire couldn’t have been spent on a better CB or 2 players? But I think Ole has recruited the best and left the next manager with a great squad.

Best manager for coaching:
LVG
Best Manger for winning:
Mourinho
Best manager whose whose left a potentially title winning team
Ole (could be that previous recruitment was soo crap)
 
Ferguson’s Hairdryer said:
That happens all the time when a manager loses it’s a twist to the “you’re getting sacked in the morning” … they weren’t singing “mourinho in” when they were playing other teams.
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Nothing you just said refutes that Liverpool fans were mocking Mourinho, while he was in charge.
 
Carrick
Ole
Van Gaal
Moyes
Giggs
Cry baby Mourinho
 
If we sacked Ole after 8 months and he finished 8th having signed one player with a side that everyone seems to agree was probably Fergie's weakest there isn't a hope in hell's chance that 7 years later we'd all be sat here having just sacked Moyes for leading us to 8th position by late November and 3 trophy-less years and £485m arguing it was obvious David Moyes was better manager for us than Ole Solskjaer. Not a hope in hell's chance
 
bucky said:
Rather that than having your memory of events.
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Spot on, I think few can't remember beyond a season. Rivals fans mocked every manager we had post SAF. It wasn't just reserved for Ole.

For Jose, even rival players mocked him. ManCity players chanted "Jose way" when they won against us in 2017-18 and also when they played some other team.

Pep Guardiola's squad were seen celebrating the win over Spurs in the Etihad changing rooms before chanting 'park the bus, park the bus, Man United'.
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In their Amazon documentary
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...-mourinho-defensive-coach-amazon-documentary/
 
Ole - I know he didnt win anything and the last few months were hard but brought back some united DNA, played the best football at times since SAF and set up a good squad for the next manager.
Jose - won the Europa league and got us second, but the football was hard to watch at times.
LVG - at first genuinally played some good football, always felt he was too old and wasnt the future.
Moyes - Gave him a chance due to being SAF's choice, but always thought he was gonna be out his depth, found his level at west ham now.
 
stw2022 said:
If we sacked Ole after 8 months and he finished 8th having signed one player with a side that everyone seems to agree was probably Fergie's weakest there isn't a hope in hell's chance that 7 years later we'd all be sat here having just sacked Moyes for leading us to 8th position by late November and 3 trophy-less years and £485m arguing it was obvious David Moyes was better manager for us than Ole Solskjaer. Not a hope in hell's chance
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Especially when said manager is smashing it in Europe and challenging for top 4-6
 
stw2022 said:
If we sacked Ole after 8 months and he finished 8th having signed one player with a side that everyone seems to agree was probably Fergie's weakest there isn't a hope in hell's chance that 7 years later we'd all be sat here having just sacked Moyes for leading us to 8th position by late November and 3 trophy-less years and £485m arguing it was obvious David Moyes was better manager for us than Ole Solskjaer. Not a hope in hell's chance
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Not for me, Moyes was the one who started the massive fall from grace that we still have not recovered from. Had he finished 2nd, 3rd or even 4th place as Champions he'd have has his chance at a 2nd year.
Ole has developed a great squad on paper and leaves us with some good memories (yes with a tragic end). The 7 or 8 months of Moyes was a nightmare for me that I hate.
 
1. Ole
2. Jose
3.Lvg
4. Moyes


I think some people genuinely forgot how shit it was under mourinho (from 2nd season onwards) and LVG(I just didnt care about united games at times)
 
Trophies:
1. Jose
2. LVG
3. Ole
4. Moyes

Football played:
1. Ole
2. Jose
3. LVG
4. Moyes

Tactics:
1. LVG
2. Jose
3. Ole
4. Moyes

Team left:
1. Ole
2. Jose
3. LVG
4. Moyes.
 
Nash27 said:
1. Ole
2. Jose
3.Lvg
4. Moyes


I think some people genuinely forgot how shit it was under mourinho (from 2nd season onwards) and LVG(I just didnt care about united games at times)
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3 Cup Finals & an 81 point season in 2 seasons isnt that shit
 
Nash27 said:
1. Ole
2. Jose
3.Lvg
4. Moyes


I think some people genuinely forgot how shit it was under mourinho (from 2nd season onwards) and LVG(I just didnt care about united games at times)
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How was it any different under Ole? We went under the same cycle with him and arrived at the same point in the end with worse results and no trophies. His collapse before his sacking was also far more humiliating than any period under Jose.
 
Lvg - he was the only manager we have had post fergie that I believe was genuine and was trying to modernise the footballing side of the club, I don't even think his signings were that bad either as the only real expensive mistake under him we made was di maria but only lost 10 million on him, he made no dumb contract extensions under him, actually tried to promote young players and won the fa cup.

Mourinho - probably created our strongest 11 post fergie and won the most titles and did a good job in his second season in the league, there is a nagging what if with him if the board had just allowed him freedom with who he wanted to sell and buy like woodward allowed LvG and ole, it may have been short term success with his player recruitment but at least we would have got some likely success with his ways unlike the baron spell under ole.

Ole - did some good for the club and at least got the club champions league football 2 years in a row and had some good spells under him.

Moyes - just a terrible experiment that never worked out and was probably fighting a losing battle with both the fans and dressing room by having to be the first guy to replace fergie, plus he had the anchor of woodward who isn't even good at his job 7 years on let alone in his very first year.
 
1- Jose
2 - LVG
3 - Ole - though his team's peak football was the best we've seen since SAF (purely an opinion)
4 - Moyes
5 - ETH


Yes, given the time he's had along with the resources to sign "his" players, he's been worse than Ole and Moyes for me.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
1- Jose
2 - LVG
3 - Ole - though his team's peak football was the best we've seen since SAF (purely an opinion)
4 - Moyes
5 - ETH


Yes, given the time he's had along with the resources to sign "his" players, he's been worse than Ole and Moyes for me.
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If you are just judging according to players signed then LVG was equally bad. But overall no manager did a worse job than Moyes. Took over a team that finished 1st and took them to 7th. Also, then we had no Pep and Klopp to worry about. All he had to do was finish in top 4 that season but he was totally out of depth.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
1- Jose
2 - LVG
3 - Ole - though his team's peak football was the best we've seen since SAF (purely an opinion)
4 - Moyes
5 - ETH


Yes, given the time he's had along with the resources to sign "his" players, he's been worse than Ole and Moyes for me.
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Moyes turned a title winning team into a midtable team devoid of ideas and playing hoofball playing in a league with awful competition.
 
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