Moyes ahead of Ole
Moaning about time, fecking hell no manager gets time for taking champions to 7th place.
Incredible isn't it.
Still you have fans saying he wasn't backed or was left some sort of non league level squad.
It's horrific revisionism.
Rank our post-SAF managers
- Thread starter sullydnl
- Start date
Incredible isn't it.
Still you have fans saying he wasn't backed or was left some sort of non league level squad.
It's horrific revisionism.
Ole/Jose
Moyes
LvG
Jose actually won some stuff and got us the best league result, but the damage he did to the team in his last season pulls him back a bit. Ole got back to back top 4, which is decent and i still think he did well in refreshing the squad, albeit its a bit top heavy at the moment
Moyes did a lot of damage by remoing Fergies backroom staff, but again, he had an almost impossible job at hand
LvG, despite having a "clear style" produced the worst football by far and he completely gutted the squad as well
Moyes
LvG
Jose actually won some stuff and got us the best league result, but the damage he did to the team in his last season pulls him back a bit. Ole got back to back top 4, which is decent and i still think he did well in refreshing the squad, albeit its a bit top heavy at the moment
Moyes did a lot of damage by remoing Fergies backroom staff, but again, he had an almost impossible job at hand
LvG, despite having a "clear style" produced the worst football by far and he completely gutted the squad as well
It's not surprising, people love taking extreme sides for some odd reason. Some genius came up with "Worst ever manager in PL".
Also sudden revisionism started once Moyes started doing good job at West Ham, I'm sure there are few who would be happy to take him as ManUtd manager.
Mourinho
Van Gaal
Moyes
Ole
Van Gaal has FA Cup +1
Moyes has community shield +1
Van Gaal
Moyes
Ole
Van Gaal has FA Cup +1
Moyes has community shield +1
Ole. ------ I think out of all the other managers, he had good planning on the squad. He left a very good squad for next manager.
Jose
LVG
Moyes -- Out of all the managers , Moyes was the most unlucky one. I just wished he signed 3-4 players in that summer and things would have been different. Atleast we would not have to deal with LVG/Jose.
Jose
LVG
Moyes -- Out of all the managers , Moyes was the most unlucky one. I just wished he signed 3-4 players in that summer and things would have been different. Atleast we would not have to deal with LVG/Jose.
It’s not that it doesn’t happen though is it? Moyes was rightfully sacked, but Chelsea finished 10th after they became champions. Leicester - 12th. Klopp was in relegation zone after coming second with Dortmund the previous season.Moyes ahead of Ole
Moaning about time, fecking hell no manager gets time for taking champions to 7th place.
Obviously different scenarios, managers and so on, but it’s not like it hasn’t happened before.
Di Matteo has a UCL. By your logic you will take him over the likes of Ten Hag or Nagelsmann.
Just saying.
Looking back, as I remember it.
Jose - was brilliant until he didnt get backed
Ole - was brilliant until he did get backed
Moyes - took us from first all the way back down to 7th
LVG - side to side and back to keeper
Jose - was brilliant until he didnt get backed
Ole - was brilliant until he did get backed
Moyes - took us from first all the way back down to 7th
LVG - side to side and back to keeper
They won the league and then following season had blip, so they get benefit of doubt.
No one in their right mind would rank Benitiez ahead of Spaletti (when ranking Inter managers), one who took treble winners to 7th and the other guy who finished 4th.
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Anyone putting ole ahead of Jose and van gaal is a wum.
Jose and van gaal won things here and I can't remember Jose's end being as bad as this. Wait until next season to see what a mess ole has made with the amount of players wanting out.
Jose and van gaal won things here and I can't remember Jose's end being as bad as this. Wait until next season to see what a mess ole has made with the amount of players wanting out.
He is my favourite post Sir Alex manager inspite of the football. Just for the personality. He only missed out on back to back top 4 on goal difference and got a trophy so he wasn't a total failure.Did people here forget the football under LvG or they are new United supporters?
One spent half a billion & won how many trophies and wasted how many years? Yeah, Moyes is soooooo much worse than Ole, I bet Moyes is sweating now, West Ham are probably going to pull the trigger now Ole is available.
Mourinho
Van Gaal
Moyes
Ole
Van Gaal
Moyes
Ole
What a fecking mental thing to say. Moyes took the champions of England (by 10+ points by the way!), spent more money that we had spent in any of the previous 5/6 years and took us to 7th. He was dreadful during his time with us.
Most the money he spent was on Mata which he got to take advantage of for how long? was it even 12 weeks? The team Fergie won the league with was absolutely finished, before we knew SAF was about to retire the general consensus was that the team was about to need major surgery & it was a SAF miracle to win that league. Am I saying Moyes did a good job? No, but at least I only had to suffer him for 8 months & at least we didn't get grouped in the CL.
If Rojo is your 4th CB choice that's still utterly incompetent. His ego was to big to realize he need help in the scouting department.
Purely from a coaching perspective he was alright. As a manager no bueno.
It wasn't though, it was a team that would have been right up there the following season had SAF stuck around because he knew how to manage the changeover of players. There were older players in the squad but equally there were younger players ready to step up & at the time it looked as though they could step up, it was once Moyes dismantled the coaching team that those younger players fell off. The squad was no where near as bad as it has since been made out to be and Moyes is rightly, by far, our worst manager post-SAF.
All of them equally irrelevant/damaging, yet the EL+Top2 of Mou in 16-18 remains a pyrrhic peak.
It depends how you want to add it up. They're both abject failures in my eyes so then it comes down to how many years & how much money was wasted on that failure at which point Ole blows Moyes out of the water. You can rate him higher than Moyes if you want, it's not like I rate Moyes' time here at all but at least it was over faster.
Mourinho
Van Gaal
Ole
Moyes
Van Gaal
Ole
Moyes
For success and trophies, it's Mourinho and then Van Gaal. Ole and Moyes don't enter the discussion.`
In terms of actually enjoying watching us play, I think we played our best and most entertaining football under Ole (excluding this season bar the Leeds game), particularly the period when he was interim, and then from around the time Bruno signed. The second half of 2019/20 was very good for the most part. There were a couple of very good runs of form last season as well, and in the periods where we wobbled, we were still hard to beat. It was just never consistent, and it was offset by our very poor starts in both seasons. Jose and Van Gaal about equal, and Moyes last. At least the former two had some sort of plan, even if it was often poorly executed. Whereas it just felt hopeless under Moyes. No plan other than byline and cross.
In terms of actually enjoying watching us play, I think we played our best and most entertaining football under Ole (excluding this season bar the Leeds game), particularly the period when he was interim, and then from around the time Bruno signed. The second half of 2019/20 was very good for the most part. There were a couple of very good runs of form last season as well, and in the periods where we wobbled, we were still hard to beat. It was just never consistent, and it was offset by our very poor starts in both seasons. Jose and Van Gaal about equal, and Moyes last. At least the former two had some sort of plan, even if it was often poorly executed. Whereas it just felt hopeless under Moyes. No plan other than byline and cross.
This is a bit of revisionism. I remember quite a lot of threads of the quality of the team at that time.
Our entire defensive line was semi retired and Rooney/RvP on their last legs. Our midfield was also consisting of Cleverley, semi retired Carrick and Fletcher.
It needed major revamp and Woodward stepped in - the rest is history.
Not saying Moyes wasn't shite, but this is quite facetious to claim we had a great squad.
How the hell have you gone from "no where near as bad as it has since been made out to be" to "great squad"?
Also quite a bizarre idea to ignore the previous entirety of the post, given that it gives the bolded statement context. But I appreciate the Caf doesn't like context.
Sorry but, the earlier part is about having good young players coming through. Like who? Januzaj sure but who else? Maybe I'm forgetting some youth worldie we brought through back then but I don't know who you could be talking about.
Оk, so without going into extremes, for me it wasn't a good squad. It was aging squad on their last legs for one last hurray. The youth players like Cleverley, Welbeck and co given the hindsight weren't that good.
How do you rate this squad objectively?
Januzaj was very, very young at the time, so I'm not really talking about him.
I'm talking about the younger players that were in and around the time during SAFs last couple of years, obviously DDG was young but also we had Smalling, Evans & Jones in defence all of whom at different stages had looked capable of stepping up alongside Rio/Vidic. Rafael was still only 22/23 and coming off of his best season for the club. Welbeck wasn't going to be prolific but was becoming an important part of the squad & obviously we had signed Zaha as well. There were critical players who were still in their primes at the time like Carrick, RVP, Evra. Hernandez was scoring regularly too & there was also Rooney although everyone knows SAF was going to sell him.
The centre of midfield was obviously the big problem and I remember it being a running joke on here.
The players who had been being brought through by SAF & the coaching staff almost all fell off a cliff. Players who previously looked perfectly competent in a side battling at the top of the table fell away massively. That is not normal and I put it largely down to the complete change in staffing & removal of the senior players who had been setting the standards almost entirely within 12 months or so. I maintain that had SAF been there the following season we would have challenged again for the title.
Really? Jones had already lost his excitement & Smalling was never expected to be a world beater. Evans was good, sure. Rio & Vidic were absolutely finished, Vidic especially after his knee injury. Welbeck was barely mid-table quality & bermused fans even when SAF picked him. Carrick, RVP & Evra in their primes?? Carrick was 32, RVP was 30 & had started to get injuries again, Evra was 33 that season & was letting us get counter attacked constantly down his side because he couldn't recover from going forward any more. Rooney as you said was about to be sold because he was finished. We had Buttner as a LB, only Evans as a decent CB, no midfield whatsoever, almost nothing on the wings & only RVP & Hernandez as strikers. RVP only played 23 games in all competitions all season & Hernandez only got 12 starts in all comps. Sorry but that squad was utter crap.
Ole
Jose
LVG
Moyes
Based solely on which teams brought me the most pleasure following Utd
Jose
LVG
Moyes
Based solely on which teams brought me the most pleasure following Utd
I hadn't slept for four years until I watched an LVG game.
Jose
Ole
Moyes
LVG
Jose
Ole
Moyes
LVG
Solskjaer
Mourinho
Moyes
Van Gaal
Mourinho
Moyes
Van Gaal
I don't really see it that way. The defence was absolutely done. Rio retired the next season, Vidic was fecked after the knee injury, Rooney was a shadow of his own self, RvP injured...
Smalling and Jones we have the benefit of hindsight to see now how they turned out to be, but that squad was basically really, really average. Even of Fergie had stayed I don't really believe we could compete next season with City or Pool without serious investment.
We all knew it will be a very very hard transition and whoever becomes manager next would have been an uphill battle. On top of that we had Gill stepping down and the whole structure above the manager was also in transition.
I'm not defending Moyes for doing a shite job in the same way I'm blaming Ole for doing a shite job and wasting everyone's time. But in terms of what both inherited I'd probably take Ole's squad at the beginning of his reign rather than the 12/13 one.
The point here is just how awful Moyes did with what remains, despite the various qualifiers you want to attach, a title-winning team. And what's more, a title-winning team that genuinely had a shot at the then-record PL points tally going into the home stretch.
Was anyone expecting us to retain the league with that same squad minus Fergie? Not a chance - there was an acceptance that we'd been punching above our weight for 3-4 years because we had the best manager ever, despite not investing enough in the team.
Was that same squad good enough to stay in the top 4? Absolutely - at the very least, we should have been in contention for 4th. All Moyes had to do was keep us afloat and qualify for the Champions League - instead we finished 15 points off after losing 12 league games and giving what seemed like half the league their first wins at Old Trafford in the 21st century. There's no defending that.
On the point about not believing we could compete with Liverpool even if Fergie stayed, I honestly don't see how anyone could think that. We finished 28 points ahead of Liverpool in 2012/13.
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/thread
Mourinho
Ole
Van Gaal
Moyes
That's the gap.
Ole
Van Gaal
Moyes
That's the gap.
Just read a data driven article about Ole's time at United. This stood out.
Ole's left us in a slightly superior place in the Elo rankings (currently 10th), but we're in danger of nosediving back to where we were under Moyes and LVG.
Ole's left us in a slightly superior place in the Elo rankings (currently 10th), but we're in danger of nosediving back to where we were under Moyes and LVG.
1)Carrick
2)Jose
3)Ole
4)LVG
5)Moyes
2)Jose
3)Ole
4)LVG
5)Moyes
Wouldn't rank managers just on what trophies was won. Need the rub of the green to win any cup competition, Mourinho especially has been lucky throughout his career in that regard.
Lucky to even reach the Final of the Europa league in 2017, if he was manager last year there i doubt he'd have the misfortune to lose a final on a sudden death penalty shootout.
Van Gaal got probably the easiest run of matches on paper that I recall in that FA Cup win and I think he knew that FA cup final was his last game as United manager.
Lucky to even reach the Final of the Europa league in 2017, if he was manager last year there i doubt he'd have the misfortune to lose a final on a sudden death penalty shootout.
Van Gaal got probably the easiest run of matches on paper that I recall in that FA Cup win and I think he knew that FA cup final was his last game as United manager.
Mourinho
LVG
Moyes
Ole
Rating Ole worse than Moyes because of the lack of backing the latter received. Ole felt like 3 wasted years while Moyes was dealt with quickly.
LVG
Moyes
Ole
Rating Ole worse than Moyes because of the lack of backing the latter received. Ole felt like 3 wasted years while Moyes was dealt with quickly.
Clearly not!
Our central defense was shot, our left back was over the hill and our midfield was weak as a kitten with the runs!
And that ignores the fact our game-winning goalscorer went back to spending most of his time getting rubbed down in the treatment room.
Only if you're using results under that management to assess the squad's quality, which is my entire point (across the entire rest of that post). It's like saying our current squad isn't top 4 worthy because we're 8th right now.
Going to say this again: we finished 28 points ahead of Liverpool, 26 ahead of Everton, 17 ahead of Spurs and 16 ahead of Arsenal in 2013. We finished behind them all the next season with point swings of 48, 34, 22 and 31 respectively. You're having a laugh if you think it was just Fergie propping us up over all of them by that magnitude.