Alleged. Never proven. But yes he is because he doesn’t drink, doesn’t do drugs, works hard, trains right and keeps himself tip top. But my point wasn’t personal to CR, it was simply that DM is a cheat. Pure and simple. Pele and Messi are above them both in my list too but don’t let that derail your pointless arguement.
Rank Maradona, Messi, Pele and C.Ronaldo
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My pointless argument?
Its your argument (that Ronaldo is a better representative of football than Maradona) not mine.
I just found it bizarre that you are willing to ignore the allegations against Ronaldo while putting him on a pedestal that's all.
It’s not bizarre, it’s irrelevant to a discussion about football. DM being a dipping cheat isn’t.
Also CR isn’t on a pedestal - I put him a distant 3rd to Pele and Messi, and I’ve also called him a cockwomble. Hardly praise.
Pele.
Maradona.
R9.
A.N.Others.
Maradona.
R9.
A.N.Others.
The people who say you can’t answer Pele, even in a question directly brings up four players, because people weren’t old enough to watch him live, must be unfamiliar with the entire discipline of history.
So people are just going to let the legend of Pele die because nobody is the same age as him? If someone asks you greatest you’ve seen then answer greatest you’ve seen. If someone says ‘greatest of all time’ then why not include all time. Judge the achievements, judge the context of the time, read contemporary reports, judge old videos and make your own call.
Also it really doesn’t take that many matches to get a good sense of a player. If you started watching football in November 2022, you would have a reasonable summary of Messi, you wouldn’t need to watch another 1,000 games before you could give any opinion. His achievements, stats, reports, skills speak for themselves.
So people are just going to let the legend of Pele die because nobody is the same age as him? If someone asks you greatest you’ve seen then answer greatest you’ve seen. If someone says ‘greatest of all time’ then why not include all time. Judge the achievements, judge the context of the time, read contemporary reports, judge old videos and make your own call.
Also it really doesn’t take that many matches to get a good sense of a player. If you started watching football in November 2022, you would have a reasonable summary of Messi, you wouldn’t need to watch another 1,000 games before you could give any opinion. His achievements, stats, reports, skills speak for themselves.
Wolves dont finish third. Napoli were a midtable club when Maradona joined(like my example Wolves), and then he took them to the Scudetto within couple of seasons, being the top scorer in all the seasons, competing with the likes of Juventus and Milan of the time.
No but they were midtable players, as they were a midtable team.
No need to downplay his achievements, its very rare.
Pretty much personal preference, as the level of knowledge I have between all three is quite different.
Messi
Pelé
Maradona
Messi
Pelé
Maradona
That all depends on how the other side presents the argument. I didn't watch Italian football in the 80's, and I barely saw Maradona play during his active years (couple of games in WC 1994).
If someone is telling me that Maradona was extraordinary and they argue with football ability and personal impact on the team (which is beyond question even for those of us who didn't see him) then I am not going to contest it.
But if all they say is along the lines of "Napoli winning the Scudetto was an outlandish feat so that means only with an outstanding player like Maradona that would be possible" then this defies all logic. People then back this up by adding that teams like Milan, Juventus or Inter were stacked with talent.
Who was Hella's Verona's Maradona then? Who was Sampdoria's Maradona then? Both these teams also won the Scudetto around that era. That league in the 80's, judging by the tables, just looks like a league up for grabs because most teams lost a shitload of points.
Even recently, Leicester City managed an even more impressive fear without a Maradona level player.
To me, that argument in isolation means nothing. People have to add a bit more.
Trying to be as objective as possible:
Highest peak:
Maradona
Messi
Pele
Ronaldo
This is pretty straightforward , you basically had to foul Maradona to stop him when he was on form and Messi almost reached similar highs although I don't feel he ever quite reached it.
I'm no Pele expert and haven't seen anything which to my eye puts him above the aforementioned 2 but reading about his 1962 club exploits and what I saw of him in the 1970 WC I think he deserves the no 3 spot.
Great performances sustained through a large period of time or longevity:
This one is really hard to configure but pele,Messi and Ronaldo are clearly above Diego.
It's pretty straightforward as Pele dominated football from 1958 to his last hurray in 1970 a maddening swath of time considering the era he lived in, magnificent and not much to add about Messi and Ronaldo's longevity.
Obviously Diego could have been up there as well, he was fantastic in what little of him we managed to glean in 1994 and im certain Argentina would have done massive damage had he been allowed to stay on, not unlike Messi's recent campaign perhaps but alas he wouldn't be Maradona if he did have those demons.
Both factors cconsidered:
Messi
Pele
Maradona
Ronaldo
To be honest Ronaldo probably doesn't belong in this conversations with the other 3 , they were the the undisputed best player of their era and at this point in time Ronaldo has been firmly eclipsed by Messi as the best player of his generation, I feel he would feel more at home alongside the likes of cryuff, di estefano and Beckenbauer and he probability tops that group.
Last things to add, there will always be an age factor going on and I understandable that im biased and it's showing, perhaps that's why Pele doesn't rank as highly in this thread and probably several decades from now the same will happen to Maradona but that all said I feel those 3 are quite comfortably above all that follows them so till the next freak of nature rolls around the top 3 should be untouched.
The bar they have set is insane and I don't think anyone from the current generation could even come close to threaten it.
Highest peak:
Maradona
Messi
Pele
Ronaldo
This is pretty straightforward , you basically had to foul Maradona to stop him when he was on form and Messi almost reached similar highs although I don't feel he ever quite reached it.
I'm no Pele expert and haven't seen anything which to my eye puts him above the aforementioned 2 but reading about his 1962 club exploits and what I saw of him in the 1970 WC I think he deserves the no 3 spot.
Great performances sustained through a large period of time or longevity:
This one is really hard to configure but pele,Messi and Ronaldo are clearly above Diego.
It's pretty straightforward as Pele dominated football from 1958 to his last hurray in 1970 a maddening swath of time considering the era he lived in, magnificent and not much to add about Messi and Ronaldo's longevity.
Obviously Diego could have been up there as well, he was fantastic in what little of him we managed to glean in 1994 and im certain Argentina would have done massive damage had he been allowed to stay on, not unlike Messi's recent campaign perhaps but alas he wouldn't be Maradona if he did have those demons.
Both factors cconsidered:
Messi
Pele
Maradona
Ronaldo
To be honest Ronaldo probably doesn't belong in this conversations with the other 3 , they were the the undisputed best player of their era and at this point in time Ronaldo has been firmly eclipsed by Messi as the best player of his generation, I feel he would feel more at home alongside the likes of cryuff, di estefano and Beckenbauer and he probability tops that group.
Last things to add, there will always be an age factor going on and I understandable that im biased and it's showing, perhaps that's why Pele doesn't rank as highly in this thread and probably several decades from now the same will happen to Maradona but that all said I feel those 3 are quite comfortably above all that follows them so till the next freak of nature rolls around the top 3 should be untouched.
The bar they have set is insane and I don't think anyone from the current generation could even come close to threaten it.
Agreed but the part about Maradona taking drugs is as irrelevant as the allegations against Ronaldo and you brought them up so I though since Maradonas drug use made you believe Maradona was an "unsavory character" then some of Ronaldo's off the pitch antics may also be relevant.
As for the praise part;
That's the praise I was referring to.
Personally I would just call both unsavory characters and judge them on their footballing ability (Maradona trump's CR7 easily IMO) which is why I replied to you to begin with.
Maradona was caught in the anti-doping test with ephedrine, a substance that offers energy stimulation, improves athletic performance, and helps to lose weight. That’s on top of the widely reported cocaine abuse. He was a drug cheat. It’s absolutely relevant to this discussion. He tried to win by cheating. CR never has. His private life and allegations are separate from his professional life, and whilst they might affect his reputation, they don’t diminish his achievements.
So just like Maradonas cocaine abuse then.
You could argue that Maradonas PED use takes away from his achievements but that's only if you ignore the fact that it was well after his peak (when he achieved everything) and nobody seriously talks about the Maradona of 1994 as being the best player in world football history.
How do we know he wasn't using earlier,? We know when he was caught which is not the same thing
To be frank, with his drug abuse he cheated on himself more than anyone else. In his peak time quite much of his training consisted of working out his hangovers.
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
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Ronaldo
Messi
Pelé
Maradona
Messi
Pelé
Maradona
Are we saying this was his first drugs test and that he failed it?
I'd assume all the other tests he didn't fail?
I don't think we can take a drugs fail in the mid 90s and use that to cast doubt over a 15+ year career.
It’s like a Mahrez ( without Vardy, nor Kanté) doing a Leicester and doing it again (this time with Vardy -Careca-, still no Kanté) + winning a Champions League (with good draws) because the UEFA cup back then had much higher status than the EL now, as it gatherd seconds and thirds from other leagues (the EC was only for the champions). And this is further confirmed by the standings of the teams he defeated along the way like Bayern Munich in the semifinals and Juventus in the 1/4s… Bayern end up winning the league by 5 points margin.
His second title is almost as impressive as the first one. Serie A had become, by far and even more than earlier, the strongest league ever. In that season Italian clubs won all three European trophies. And Napoli were still not as rich as their competitors…
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No but tests were a lot more primitive in those days, look at what the East Germans got away with in athletics, I have no idea whether he used drugs then or not but we can't definitively rule it in or out. Maradona was a fantastic player but his place in in history is a least a little tainted
For sure , I've never really argued that his behaviour doesn't taint his legacy to some extent.
Rather that if we are using personal issues or incidents (or alleged) as a reason to downplay his career then we should be consistent with his peers also.
Messi / Pele
Maradona
Maradona
Messi
Maradona
Pele
Maradona
Pele
A bit pointless but how do you lot reckon Argentina would have done had he been allowed to stay on for the 1994 world cup, he wasn't as good as his 1986 self obviously but that was by far the best Argentinan side he got to play with and in those 2 games the way he like up with the team was marvelous.
It's a bit silly even putting Ronaldo in there right now during a time when a lot of people on here will be blinkered simply because of the fallout of what's just happened with him at our club and also his decline over the last year or two. It's tough to take half the posts serious when you have people saying he shouldn't even be involved.
Yes, a guy that won 5 CL's, 7+ league title's and other domestic cups across three different leagues as well as the Euro's for his country while also being arguably the most instrumental part in all of that while scoring over 700 goals in the process really shouldn't be in the conversation, right? This place really is mental at times
One of the few sensible posts in this thread. It is absolutely hilarious seeing people here trying to dismiss and downplay Ronaldo's achievements. I saw someone here saying Maradonna had a better club career. The mind absolutely boggles
Messi
Maradona
R9
Pele has to be in fourth smply because I have not seen anywhere near enough to make any reasonable claim he is better than the others.
My top 3 are the greatest players I have ever seen, and the only 3 to make me feel i was actually witnessing genius. They stand far above all others as my defining memories of their respective eras.
Maradona
R9
Pele has to be in fourth smply because I have not seen anywhere near enough to make any reasonable claim he is better than the others.
My top 3 are the greatest players I have ever seen, and the only 3 to make me feel i was actually witnessing genius. They stand far above all others as my defining memories of their respective eras.
There are definitely a significant number of people here speaking with authority on Pele and Maradona who have never seen them play a full game, never mind a few games, a full season or multiple seasons.
It is totally pointless, and for some definitely an attempt to come across as knowledgable of the history of the game.
You'd want to have watched at least 100 random full games they played to be able to compare. And not their 100 best games, just 100 random ones. Who here has watched back even 20 - 50 random Maradona games from different seasons with Barcelona, Napoli and Argentina who weren't alive or old enough to have seen them at the time. I'd say nobody.
Basically people are full of shit
It is totally pointless, and for some definitely an attempt to come across as knowledgable of the history of the game.
You'd want to have watched at least 100 random full games they played to be able to compare. And not their 100 best games, just 100 random ones. Who here has watched back even 20 - 50 random Maradona games from different seasons with Barcelona, Napoli and Argentina who weren't alive or old enough to have seen them at the time. I'd say nobody.
Basically people are full of shit
Absolutely but as far as I'm aware none of the others in the conversation have these allegations or incidents, I'll stand corrected is I'm wrong.
Pele
Maradona
R7
R9
Maradona
R7
R9
I'm assuming you include yourself in that last statement
For the record I never saw Pele play apart from a few on TV, I saw Maradona twice in person and probably 30+ times on TV, Messi never seen live but plenty on TV, Ronaldo probably 30-40 times live and probably a 100+ on TV
As for who was the best, no idea, it's impossible to compare different eras which is wht GOAT is a pointless exercise for fanboys
There is a pretty big allegation against CR7 by German publication DER Spiegel, who claim to have documents (obtained from a hack) that prove that CR admitted to his lawyers that he sexually assaulted a woman in Las Vegas.
CR never sued DER Spiegel for making these allegations (even though his lawyer threatened to) but did sue them for alleging he committed tax fraud (he lost that one).
So while I'm not saying that Ronaldo had ever been accused of similar things to Maradona, just that he has a skeleton in his closet large enough that I wouldn't be using him as an example of a good ambassador to football.
Messi/ Pele are far better examples in that regard.
I just asked my Uncle (who was in his teens at the time, a little bit older than me and Diego is his idol so take it with a tiny grain of salt):
"Hey man a poster justed asked me an intereresting question.. How do you think Argentina would have done with Maradona in the knockouts? Do you think they would have won it all?"
He then replied
"Do I think we would have won? No... I KNOW we would have won!"
Before embarking on a 5 minute rant about the squad quality and FIFA corruption
so while I think that they would have at least made the Semis he is convinced it would have been the third cup.Good thing we have stats, as they prevent us from having to watch 600 hours of football in order to have an opinion on one particular matter. To the topic, I tend to side with the guy that has more WC titles than the other three combined.
My opinion based on stats, basic facts and youtube
1 Pele reason: he was 17 when he scored a hattrick in a world cup semi final and 2 goals in a world cup final. All the other greats were nowhere close to this level at that age. Add to that and judged by the countless videos that still exist of him today he was everything into 1 player, no weaknesses.
the only player who was instrumental in winning 2 world cups. I don’t count the third as he was injured. He got,kicked out of 2 world cups, zero protection in his day.
The Godfather of football, everybody knows him, even today, he was pretty simply not just a football player in his day he is a big reason football became as global as it is now.
2 Messi
3 Maradona
Ronaldo? Cristiano? Please…
1 Pele reason: he was 17 when he scored a hattrick in a world cup semi final and 2 goals in a world cup final. All the other greats were nowhere close to this level at that age. Add to that and judged by the countless videos that still exist of him today he was everything into 1 player, no weaknesses.
the only player who was instrumental in winning 2 world cups. I don’t count the third as he was injured. He got,kicked out of 2 world cups, zero protection in his day.
The Godfather of football, everybody knows him, even today, he was pretty simply not just a football player in his day he is a big reason football became as global as it is now.
2 Messi
3 Maradona
Ronaldo? Cristiano? Please…
As I assumed , obviously you can never be sure as you would have met a very strong brazil side on your way to the final and Italy where Italy in those years.I just asked my Uncle (who was in his teens at the time, a little bit older than me and Diego is his idol so take it with a tiny grain of salt):
"Hey man a poster justed asked me an intereresting question.. How do you think Argentina would have done with Maradona in the knockouts? Do you think they would have won it all?"
He then replied
"Do I think we would have won? No... I KNOW we would have won!"
Before embarking on a 5 minute rant about the squad quality and FIFA corruption
That was a wonderful team and the way Maradona gelled in with his team mates was mesmerizing, the showing against Greece was beyond wonderful but alas we never got to witness his last dance and If I where to give my two cents he might have had his Messi 2022 style win.
I always thought Diego was quite unlucky when it came to world cups(although a large part of the blame falls on himself) not included in 1978 squad which deprived him of the chance being a multiple WC winner, having his injury problems and losing out in the final in such fashion in 1990 (the possible penalty on calderon just before Germany got theirs) and finally the 1994.
Incredible how eternal his name became in footballing ethos despite never maximizing his potential.
Should be Maradona, Messi and Pele. What on earth is Ronaldo doing in the title 
doesn't belong anywhere near these 3.
I think any of the 3 would have the right to be called GOAT. I'm too young to have watched Pele and Maradona playing live unfortunately and would have to rely on old footage, so I will go with Messi but can totally understand the older generations putting either of the other 2 on top. Always find it fascinating hearing from those who did witness them playing live.
doesn't belong anywhere near these 3.I think any of the 3 would have the right to be called GOAT. I'm too young to have watched Pele and Maradona playing live unfortunately and would have to rely on old footage, so I will go with Messi but can totally understand the older generations putting either of the other 2 on top. Always find it fascinating hearing from those who did witness them playing live.
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The same goes for the other candidates. Pele had his share of bad luck and drama at world cups too. Messi obviously too in 2014.
But yeah Maradona surely had some cases going against him but these were mostly his own doing. The goal vs Greece in 94 is maybe the best goal ever scored imo
He missed out on a pele like world title in 1978, super young but possibly instrumental like pele in 58
and a world cup in his twilight in 94 like Messi this year.
As is with life no one ever really maximizes their potential but even on a surface level Maradona got the worst hand handed to him out of the 3.
Pele played a total of 4 world cups and won 3 even when he was out for most of it in 1962 , he also managed to have a very dominant club spell without any career ending injuries which back then insay was good luck.
Messi was unlucky in the international stage as well but he too got a good hand handed out to him being able to sustain his career so long while having an almost perfect club career in the process.
Messi maybe.
-------Guedes-Messi-Neto
-------Moutinho-Neves-Nunes
AitNouri-Kilman-Collins-Semedo
----------------------Sa--------------------------
You probably get like 35-40 league goals instead of the 50 he got at peak for Barca, but add some assists and players like Ait-Nouri (good at making the Alba runs, very good in final 3rd) Nunes (runs hard like Rakitic did), Guedes and Neto getting more goals and assists from playing with Neto and he'd have a chance in the 2015 PL, though I think it's too strong now because transfer spending is so dominated by PL teams. I can't imagine the math was quite that skewed for Serie A back then, even if it was the strongest league. Capital was simply less concentrated.
As far as league titles go I definitely regard any Italian champions of the 80s and early 90s to very very high regard. Greatest any league has ever been.
If this was a thread where the question was to rank the footballers you've actually seen play often enough, then I'd understand the responses being given. A fair assessment of all the options given by the OP is never going to happen when a good chunk of football fans hardly, if ever, saw Maradona or Pele play, beyond the usual highlight reels.
This may also not be the place for it, but there used to be a generally held view before Messi and Ronaldo showed up that Cruyff was the firm favourite as third best player of all time behind Pele and Maradona. That's all debatable right now, but we've quickly forgotten or written off anyone that was good before the internet age. There have been plenty of players with really good performances over the decades. Someone like Gerd Muller had some really good scoring figures, as an example.
This may also not be the place for it, but there used to be a generally held view before Messi and Ronaldo showed up that Cruyff was the firm favourite as third best player of all time behind Pele and Maradona. That's all debatable right now, but we've quickly forgotten or written off anyone that was good before the internet age. There have been plenty of players with really good performances over the decades. Someone like Gerd Muller had some really good scoring figures, as an example.
There is so much nonsense in this post. For a start his international career being a disappointment before 2021 is a not true. He was Argentina's main protagonist on the way to 3 consecutive finals which they lost with very fine margins. He was voted player of the tournament at Copa 2015. He was also one of the best players at the copa america 2007 and 2016. As for the World cup of 2014, Messi scored the winning goals in all the group games and provided the a important assist for Di Maria's goal vs Switzerland; this was a game in which Di Maria lost the ball so many times i lost count. In the very next game, Di Maria was injured after half an hour and before that made a mess of a typical magical through pass vs Belgium. So, the notion that somehow Di Maria outperformed him is a complete lie fabricated by haters.
Cruyff did not win a singe international tournament, Platini won only Euro 1982, Zidane is an anomaly in the sense that although he won 1 word cup and 1 Euro, his entire legacy is based on a few games, Van Basten won only a Euro 1988 before and after that, he had no impact on any competition, Matthaus won one word cup but no continental competition. How on earth do any of these players have better international careers? Are you drunk or just a hater?
Than you say that Maradona and Pele produced miracles regularly at multiple international tournaments. Prior to Mexico 86, Maradona was criticised for his Argentina performances and after Mexico 86 there is nothing he achieved in the Argentina shirt; even at Italia 1990, the single good moment was the assist vs Brazil. Thats it. He won no continental trophy. As for Pele, he played in some of the best international sides in history. He played only a couple of games at Chie 1962, yet they still won the competition.