Rank Maradona, Messi, Pele and C.Ronaldo

Gehrman said:
You also had Verona and Sampdoria winning it in that decade. Not trying to downplay Maradonna, its just its not the only underdog tale in that era.
Click to expand...
Sampdoria weren't really a minnow at the time though, they'd finished top 5 consistently over 4 seasons before taking out the title with Vialli, Mancini, Lombardi, Vierchowood and Pagliuca who were all big names in Serie A and the Italian national team

They didn't have a major drop off either after winning their title, meanwhile Napoli were nobodies before Diegos arrival.

And Maradona did it twice against some very strong teams, in what was the world's best league, with defenders who could defend, with even their mid table teams having some considerable talent who were young but make their names later down the track. Ie Serie A was a stacked league at the time.
 
JP77 said:
It's a bit silly even putting Ronaldo in there right now during a time when a lot of people on here will be blinkered simply because of the fallout of what's just happened with him at our club and also his decline over the last year or two. It's tough to take half the posts serious when you have people saying he shouldn't even be involved.

Yes, a guy that won 5 CL's, 7+ league title's and other domestic cups across three different leagues as well as the Euro's for his country while also being arguably the most instrumental part in all of that while scoring over 700 goals in the process really shouldn't be in the conversation, right? This place really is mental at times :lol:
Click to expand...

It's almost as if acting like a cnut and disparaging remarks against the club that we all love and support wouldnt affect people's views on him.
 
I would put Messi, Maradona and Pele in the same tier. The undisputed GOTEs (Greatest of their Eras). Ronaldo falls short and would be in the second tier for me.
 
Passitlikescholes said:
Sampdoria weren't really a minnow at the time though, they'd finished top 5 consistently over 4 seasons before taking out the title with Vialli, Mancini, Lombardi, Vierchowood and Pagliuca who were all big names in Serie A and the Italian national team

They didn't have a major drop off either after winning their title, meanwhile Napoli were nobodies before Diegos arrival.

And Maradona did it twice against some very strong teams, in what was the world's best league, with defenders who could defend, with even their mid table teams having some considerable talent who were young but make their names later down the track. Ie Serie A was a stacked league at the time.
Click to expand...

I might be mistaken but I remember someone mentioning that Napoli spent pretty big the season after they bought Maradona. Is this true? Im not trying to say that Napoli were like Madrids galacticos or peps Barcelona only that some people who also watched Maradona were away that the team that featured Maradona in his 2nd wasnt as gash as its made about to be. For Napoli to be nobodies they still broke the world record transferfee at the time.
 
YikesSchmeics said:
Messi has more goals, more assists and more trophies than Maradona? What kind of logic is this.
Click to expand...

Messi is comparable to Maradona, but goals have nothing to do with it. His international career has been a disappointment until 2021. Di Maria was, by a decent margin, Argentina's best attacking player in their run to the 2014 World Cup final. And they would probably have won it if they had him instead of any other player on that day(this may include Messi, who missed a sitter from Biglia's pass). So, yeah, he is not really on Maradona's level, despite his great World Cup in 2022 (one of the best, of course, but still not equal to Baggio's 94, Ronaldo's 02 for example).

Actually, if we are strictly speaking of international careers, I still wouldn't necessarily rank Messi above any of Cruyff, Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo, Van Basten, or Matthäus. But I might be wrong. One thing I'm sure of is that Pele and Maradona produced miracles (what Messi does at the club level) at multiple international tournaments, and that sets them apart from him, despite him having comparable talent and definitely a comparable career overall.
 
No garrincha in any of these lists?

Young people forgeting the old greats.
 
Ayoba said:
It's almost as if acting like a cnut and disparaging remarks against the club that we all love and support wouldnt affect people's views on him.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't though, you separate that when judging a players career. Whether he's a massive knob or not doesn't change the fact that he's genuinely in the discussion as one of the greatest of all time.
 
1. Pele
2. Messi
.
.
.
.
.
3. Ronaldo

Maradona doesn’t make my list because he is a drug addled cheating scumbag - and you can’t be the greatest of anything if you get there by cheating. His achievements mean nothing.
 
Doesn't anyone else think Zidane is tremendously overrated when it comes to these all time lists? As someone who watched him regularly when he was playing for Madrid and France I reckon he doesn't belong in these conversations at all. I struggle to think how someone who watched him play regularly outside of his iconic moments/matches would have him in a fecking top 10 footballers of all time. He was absolutely anonymous in so, so many games. He belongs in the same tier as Iniesta, whichever that tier is, at the very most.
 
Pintu said:
Messi is comparable to Maradona, but goals have nothing to do with it. His international career has been a disappointment until 2021. Di Maria was, by a decent margin, Argentina's best attacking player in their run to the 2014 World Cup final. And they would probably have won it if they had him instead of any other player on that day(this may include Messi, who missed a sitter from Biglia's pass). So, yeah, he is not really on Maradona's level, despite his great World Cup in 2022 (one of the best, of course, but still not equal to Baggio's 94, Ronaldo's 02 for example).
Click to expand...

Messi put 3 on a plate for Higuain who blew them all. Maradona put one on a plate for Burruchaga who scored. That's the difference. Also, di Maria didnt win the best player, and scored 1 goal, vs Messi's 4, so frankly, when taking a factual vs fantasy view on it, you're talking rubbish.

Disappointment? Only if the bar is winning trophies. Otherwise you'd be an absolute lunatic to call it a disappointment.

El Diego played 2 World Cup Finals, won 1, lost 1. Never scored in the final. Never managed the Copa America.Scored 34 goals total.

Messi played 2 WC Finals, won1, lost 1. Scored 2 in 1. Won the Copa America, and lost 3 finals. Scored 98 goals total. Disappointment. The levels of mental gymnastics people go to in order to fuel their youthful nostaligia is staggering.

Pintu said:
Actually, if we are strictly speaking of international careers, I still wouldn't necessarily rank Messi above any of Cruyff, Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo, Van Basten, or Matthäus. But I might be wrong. One thing I'm sure of is that Pele and Maradona produced miracles (what Messi does at the club level) at multiple international tournaments, and that sets them apart from him, despite him having comparable talent and definitely a comparable career overall.
Click to expand...

We're all entitled to our opinions. Even when they go against facts. So you are saying Messi didn't "produc miracles at multiple international tournaments"? Like winning the Golden Ball twice, for example? Or winning the Copa America best player award twice (4 is a multiple of 1 BTW) - being the best player, according to official awards, at both major tournaments he won, and the top teams top goalscorer at both tournaments too (2 is a multiple of 1 too BTW). Complete and utter fantasy.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Maradona doesn’t make my list because he is a drug addled cheating scumbag - and you can’t be the greatest of anything if you get there by cheating. His achievements mean nothing.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be quite as harsh as you, but I sort of agree with that point. Without his blatant cheating he very likely wouldn't have won the WC, and this gets completely overlooked all the time.
 
Messi



Ronaldo
Maradona/Pele

Most likeable ‘character’ of the bunch Maradona
 
cafecillos said:
Doesn't anyone else think Zidane is tremendously overrated when it comes to these all time lists? As someone who watched him regularly when he was playing for Madrid and France I reckon he doesn't belong in these conversations at all. I struggle to think how someone who watched him play regularly outside of his iconic moments/matches would have him in a fecking top 10 footballers of all time. He was absolutely anonymous in so, so many games. He belongs in the same tier as Iniesta, whichever that tier is, at the very most.
Click to expand...

Im with you in this. Absolutely overrated player. That doesn't mean he wasnt world class. Of course he was, but for some strange reason and a couple of decisive goals in a couple of finals, main media elevated him to this god tier which is not justified at all when they put him aside of pele and the likes.

I dare anyone to prove that iniesta wasnt a better number 10 than zidane but for some reason iniesta isnt in these type of conversations at all. Im pretty sure good looks also play a role in this bias
 
cafecillos said:
I wouldn't be quite as harsh as you, but I sort of agree with that point. Without his blatant cheating he very likely wouldn't have won the WC, and this gets completely overlooked all the time.
Click to expand...
If it wasn't for his cheating England would likely have won that WC, if Bryan Robson had been fit IMO the cheating wouldn't gave mattered because the "wonder" goal wouldn't have happened, Robbo would never have let him run that far with the ball
 
Messi
CR7
Maradona
Pele

People writing CR7 off... my gosh :rolleyes:. We get it, he hasnt been the same since fecking 35 years old, but he was toe to toe with messi for at least 10 years, so shut up
 
Gehrman said:
I might be mistaken but I remember someone mentioning that Napoli spent pretty big the season after they bought Maradona. Is this true? Im not trying to say that Napoli were like Madrids galacticos or peps Barcelona only that some people who also watched Maradona were away that the team that featured Maradona in his 2nd wasnt as gash as its made about to be. For Napoli to be nobodies they still broke the world record transferfee at the time.
Click to expand...

Maradona was the only non Italian player in the scudetto winning 86/87 Napoli squad... Juventus had Platini + Laudrup...Inter had Rummenigge etc... Which means clubs needed to have the best Italians and all top clubs had many Italy players from WC 86 and from previous tournaments (82 WC winners), the only Napoli player called up to 86 WC was Salvatore Bagni... Which makes him (alongside Maradona) the only player familiar with the highest level. Every other top club had at least 5/6 of those...
 
Pintu said:
Maradona was the only non Italian player in the scudetto winning 86/87 Napoli squad... Juventus had Platini + Laudrup...Inter had Rummenigge etc... Which means clubs needed to have the best Italians and all top clubs had many Italy players from WC 86 and from previous tournaments (82 WC winners), the only Napoli player called up to 86 WC was Salvatore Bagni... Which makes him (alongside Maradona) the only player familiar with the highest level. Every other top club had at least 5/6 of those...
Click to expand...

Laudrup spent half his time at Juventus being loaned out to Lazio and was stricken with injuries and considered a failure at Juventus where he couldnt be the replacement for Platini they wanted him to be.
 
Last edited:
BeltUp said:
It would have been useful if people would've posted their age along with their list.
Click to expand...

Exactly this.
Most won't have seen Pele play, so just casually ignore his record goal totals and being the best player for a country winning 3 world cups in his time.
 
Gehrman said:
Laudrup spent half his time at Juventus being loaned out to Lazio and was stricken with injuries and considered a failure at Juventus where he be the replacement for Platini they wanted him to be.
Click to expand...

I was talking strictly about Maradona's first seasons with Napoli. That's actually the best part of Laudrup's spell at Juventus, after his Lazio spell, and during that period he played well alongside Platini before unsuccessfully trying to take over for him. The main point was that Juventus were capable of having both Laudrup and Platini in their squad, as well as some of the very best Italian players (Cabrini, Scirea, Serena..). And Juventus weren't alone in being that powerful. Milan and Inter had the muscle too... But ultimately, Napoli had Maradona.
 
Rightly or wrongly there's a top three in my mind (Messi, Pele, Maradona) and then another group of random greats (Ronaldo, Cruyff, Di Stefano, etc.). The order of the different groups means nothing to me but when a player crosses from one to the other I'm sceptical.

Though the wildly varying amount I've actually seen of them means in some cases I'm basically judging them as historical figures more than on their actual football. But then if you don't do that then 95%+ of the forum have no business venturing an opinion, because I don't believe that many of you spend your time watching huge swathes of games from 40+ years ago.

On a player I did see quite a bit of though, I agree on the Zidane comments above. Great player but a great player in the way the likes of Xavi and Iniesta were great players. In other words a clear step below Messi, Ronaldo and anyone else you want to claim was on their level(s).
 
Plant0x84 said:
Maradona doesn’t make my list because he is a drug addled cheating scumbag - and you can’t be the greatest of anything if you get there by cheating. His achievements mean nothing.
Click to expand...
cafecillos said:
I wouldn't be quite as harsh as you, but I sort of agree with that point. Without his blatant cheating he very likely wouldn't have won the WC, and this gets completely overlooked all the time.
Click to expand...
Red in STL said:
If it wasn't for his cheating England would likely have won that WC, if Bryan Robson had been fit IMO the cheating wouldn't gave mattered because the "wonder" goal wouldn't have happened, Robbo would never have let him run that far with the ball
Click to expand...
With competent refereeing England are down to 10 men long before either of his goals. Terry Fenwick should have been sent off twice over and his elbow to Maradona’s head should have been a straight red in the first half.

He was fouled 53 times during that World Cup. To put that into context, that is the most of any World Cup, beating his own record from four years earlier in Spain, and only approached by himself again four years later in Italy. The closest from anybody else is way down on 33. The guy was kicked to bits because it was the only way to stop him.
 
Gio said:
With competent refereeing England are down to 10 men long before either of his goals. Terry Fenwick should have been sent off twice over and his elbow to Maradona’s head should have been a straight red in the first half.
Click to expand...

Yup that's 100% fact.

 
Is that R9 or CR7? If it's the latter, I personally don't think he should be on that list.

Regarding the others, I'd have to put Messi on top, simply because I didn't see the others play, other than the odd video clips.

That said, I watched a video on facebook going through all the skills/goals Pele displayed way before the players who people felt were the first to do it, i.e. Cryuff turn, etc.
 
Gio said:
With competent refereeing England are down to 10 men long before either of his goals. Terry Fenwick should have been sent off twice over and his elbow to Maradona’s head should have been a straight red in the first half.
Click to expand...
Didn't he praise them for being fair afterwards? They were the only team that didn't knock him down which enabled him to score the second goal.
 
Gio said:
With competent refereeing England are down to 10 men long before either of his goals. Terry Fenwick should have been sent off twice over and his elbow to Maradona’s head should have been a straight red in the first half.

He was fouled 53 times during that World Cup. To put that into context, that is the most of any World Cup, beating his own record from four years earlier in Spain, and only approached by himself again four years later in Italy. The closest from anybody else is way down on 33. The guy was kicked to bits because it was the only way to stop him.
Click to expand...
It’s not just the handball, I was 2 in ‘86 so although I don’t like it being against my country it didn’t affect me personally. It was the doping and the drug taking as well. He wasn’t a good ambassador for football. An unsavoury character. Compare him with Cristiano - a cockwomble of the hugest order but he does things the right way and is genuinely great. DM isn’t.
 
Gio said:
With competent refereeing England are down to 10 men long before either of his goals. Terry Fenwick should have been sent off twice over and his elbow to Maradona’s head should have been a straight red in the first half.

He was fouled 53 times during that World Cup. To put that into context, that is the most of any World Cup, beating his own record from four years earlier in Spain, and only approached by himself again four years later in Italy. The closest from anybody else is way down on 33. The guy was kicked to bits because it was the only way to stop him.
Click to expand...
I don't know, yeah, that was probably a red, but the other thing is arguably one of the worst refereeing mistakes in the history of professional sports. He scored a decisive goal in a WC QF with his fecking hand ffs :lol:
 




The level of brutality is on another dimension.....

Diego 86 received some of the poorest treatments in every match of that World Cup( especially against South Korea, West Germany in the second half, England, and Uruguay).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.