Just happened to see a video today of Romario saying he was on par with Messi and C. Ronaldo (and also R9 and Ronaldinho). He only considered Maradona and Pele to be better. For what it's worth.
Rank Maradona, Messi, Pele and C.Ronaldo
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Too young for Pele so cant put him in my list.
For me it isnt even a debate though, Maradona is 100% the best of the three for me. People talk about Messi winning the world cup....Maradona nearly won his country two and one of the squads was pretty weak...he also won the league with Napoli.....medals almost iirelevant though, gladly little stats bar simple ones for him.
I just find it strange anybody 47-48+ who has seen Maradona play can think Messi is the bette player, nevere heard an Argentinian say it. In pure terms of abilty Maradona is easily clear for me.
Then its Messi....but not as clearly as many seem to feel for me though...Ronaldo actually has more to his game.
Personally Brazilian ROnaldo was better than both though and the only player I have seen would mention in the same breath as Maradona up until he left Italy
For me it isnt even a debate though, Maradona is 100% the best of the three for me. People talk about Messi winning the world cup....Maradona nearly won his country two and one of the squads was pretty weak...he also won the league with Napoli.....medals almost iirelevant though, gladly little stats bar simple ones for him.
I just find it strange anybody 47-48+ who has seen Maradona play can think Messi is the bette player, nevere heard an Argentinian say it. In pure terms of abilty Maradona is easily clear for me.
Then its Messi....but not as clearly as many seem to feel for me though...Ronaldo actually has more to his game.
Personally Brazilian ROnaldo was better than both though and the only player I have seen would mention in the same breath as Maradona up until he left Italy
Same with Messi and the 2022 World Cup but for Ronaldo's PR trying to hold on. Ronaldo is the Eusebio to Pele or the Platini to Maradona, a tier bloew.
It was back then. After the age of 32 when Platini retired, Maradona himself was in South America and only made 34 appearances in 4 years.
Surely you can't think Maradona winning the WC with Argentina and 2 titles with Napoli is enough to make him above Platini. The WC is only 7 games to win. Not to mention his absolutely despicable cheating to get to the final.
Platini from 1983 - 1986 with Juventus won 2 Serie A titles, the Coppa Italia, European Cup and European Cup Winners Cup, European Super Cup and the Intercontinental Cup. He also won the European Cup with France scoring 9 goals.
Valdano played with Maradona in that Argentina team that won that World Cup, and he said that the difference between them is that Messi is Maradona - but every day. keep in mind this is ex Madrid player saying it for Barca player.
and Menotti, who was managing Argentina when they won the World Cup, said Messi is easily on the level peak Maradona was.
I find it hard to imagine what Messi is missing that you think he is. He has trophies, stats, eye test, best playmaker, best scorer, best dribbler of his time. Perfect player pretty much other than being small and not a physical presence but he was too quick-witted to get into contact anyway and even scored a header in a CL final.
I never watched Pele and Maradona, but I have spoken with people who have and did my own research and this is what I came up with:
1. Messi
2. Pele
3. Maradona
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
In terms of accolades, they've all won so much that it becomes a pissing contest of what trophy is more important than the other. What determined my ranking was the joy of watching them play while still maintaining their trophy haul. That's why Ronaldo falls to 4th, because quite frankly his 07/08 season with us was the last of watching the direct winger who took on players to the ruthless goal machine.
I think others see it the same way which is why Zidane and Ronaldinho are still fondly remembered even though they had a short time on top.
1. Messi
2. Pele
3. Maradona
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
In terms of accolades, they've all won so much that it becomes a pissing contest of what trophy is more important than the other. What determined my ranking was the joy of watching them play while still maintaining their trophy haul. That's why Ronaldo falls to 4th, because quite frankly his 07/08 season with us was the last of watching the direct winger who took on players to the ruthless goal machine.
I think others see it the same way which is why Zidane and Ronaldinho are still fondly remembered even though they had a short time on top.
Or easily Google'd articles. I never understand the ignorance of history or what happened before you were born, why comment on World War 2 when none of us were born? Imagine applying the same logic to other fields.
Music? The Beatles? Didn't see them live, before my time, so can't compare to Taylor Swift.
The Godfather? Before my time, wouldn't like to comment or it can't compare to modern films like The Irishman.
Best US president? Roosevelt was before my time, so Obama is the greatest president.
Vietnam War? Can't comment on it as I wasn't alive I'm afraid.
Boring answer I know (though typical for a fence sitter like me), but I don't think you really can rank players who played in different eras. Tough enough to rank contemporaries who play a different role, or in different leagues, etc. But trying to judge whether the top players from the 50's and 60's were better than the top ones from the 80's and 90's or the 2010's, etc, is impossible.
All I think you can really say is which players are up there in the conversation. Those that were so good in the time that they played that they merit being put in with the other greats of the game.
I never really get when I see people speaking of any of those players who are widely said to be in that conversation and, just because they don't personally rate / like them, or want to push one specific players case more, they start dismissing them as 'rubbish' or something.
All these players that are talked about as the 'potential best ever' are in that company because they are up there with the best the games ever seen. I think that's the highest genuine accolade you can pay, really. It's impossible to officially decide which of those greats of the game from different eras were actually the best.
All I think you can really say is which players are up there in the conversation. Those that were so good in the time that they played that they merit being put in with the other greats of the game.
I never really get when I see people speaking of any of those players who are widely said to be in that conversation and, just because they don't personally rate / like them, or want to push one specific players case more, they start dismissing them as 'rubbish' or something.
All these players that are talked about as the 'potential best ever' are in that company because they are up there with the best the games ever seen. I think that's the highest genuine accolade you can pay, really. It's impossible to officially decide which of those greats of the game from different eras were actually the best.
I can listen to all the Beatles albums in exactly the same way I can listen to all Taylor Swift albums.
I can watch the Godfather right after watching Dune 2.
Reading an article about what someone thinks of Pele from 60 years ago tells me what they think about him, not what I think about him.
Valdano said that Messi is Maradona of the 86 WC everyday. Essentially praising Messi consistency.
I mean there are tons of footballers and managers and sports journalists who watched Maradona in his time who pick Messi. Fergie chose Messi over Maradona for being more consistent.
it's not just that. think it's more because of the fact that he remained a ghost in knockout stage for his whole career and most people weren't expecting that in 2016.
we were saying his NT is not that good and it kinda was true at one point (compared to Spain at least). but Portugal improved with time, they were filled with world class players yet they kept losing in early stages with Ronaldo being non-factor as always.
then Messi won Copa playing at level that was unreachable for Ronnie and we had those silly Euro vs Copa debates for a while.
but then, at the last WC, Portugal lost yet again in early stage with Ronaldo being tragic, while Messi had another brilliant tournament, performing at the level unreachable for Ronnie yet again.
personally, I never expected that Ronnie won't improve at all after Portugal's EURO 2016 win, but that's what happened. in very short time his international career became easily worse than careers of pretty much every possible goat candidate you compare him with.
he's now the only one without a single player of the tournament award worthy Euro/WC.
Pele for me it's the complete athlete combine with virtuosism
Maradona the perfect virtuoso and entertainer with lots of sense and grinta.
Messi it's the effortless genius and incline to be more assertive like Pele
Pele and Messi had easily better carreers and numbers than Diego.
I don't have any "complain" from anyone liking any of the three above the other, I do not share opinons in the mold of "Messi/Pele/Maradona is two steps above, etc" for me any of them isn't far above or clearly above in a general sense from the other.
I also rate very near and I can easily understand why somebody can see Cryuff or Di Stefano (lately I rate him way above than I've used to) in their cathegory, up there too and maybe a tag lower than all these fellas guys like Platini and Zico (these two lacked an extra gear, power that usually come with these off the charts wild cards).
I have in phenoms very close to Genius fellas people like Neymar, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romario and Garrincha. These guys had that extra gear, power, virtuosism and some great understanding of the game, but not for me in the realm of the ones cited above. Also some of them are more role oriented and lacked the assertion and overall capability and understanding of the game of for instance someone like Zico.
I don't have Cristiano in such esteem when compared to these fellas, yet he had a way better carreer than the majority of all the above named and it's clearly a phenom of a forward with a "genius" carreer.
Maradona the perfect virtuoso and entertainer with lots of sense and grinta.
Messi it's the effortless genius and incline to be more assertive like Pele
Pele and Messi had easily better carreers and numbers than Diego.
I don't have any "complain" from anyone liking any of the three above the other, I do not share opinons in the mold of "Messi/Pele/Maradona is two steps above, etc" for me any of them isn't far above or clearly above in a general sense from the other.
I also rate very near and I can easily understand why somebody can see Cryuff or Di Stefano (lately I rate him way above than I've used to) in their cathegory, up there too and maybe a tag lower than all these fellas guys like Platini and Zico (these two lacked an extra gear, power that usually come with these off the charts wild cards).
I have in phenoms very close to Genius fellas people like Neymar, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romario and Garrincha. These guys had that extra gear, power, virtuosism and some great understanding of the game, but not for me in the realm of the ones cited above. Also some of them are more role oriented and lacked the assertion and overall capability and understanding of the game of for instance someone like Zico.
I don't have Cristiano in such esteem when compared to these fellas, yet he had a way better carreer than the majority of all the above named and it's clearly a phenom of a forward with a "genius" carreer.
Maradona
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You can watch a match from Pele in the 1970 World Cup in the same way you can watch match from Messi from 2012.
Except Platini genuinely had the tools to truly compete with Maradona at the time.
They literally played in the same position, had a very similar skillset and were first and foremost teamplayers. Both were big game players, strong leaders and absolutely essential to their respective teams. France should've won a WC when Platini was part of it. The advantage Maradona had was his ability to take on a whole team and his knack at creating something out of absolutely nothing.
Platini, Zico and Maradona were the talk of the town at the time, before the latter eclipsed the other two after 86. Platini was a virtuoso, a true #10, and a genuine all time great. It's quite sad that most of the CAF members only know him because of his shady shit as UEFA president.
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Michel was fantastique! still my favorite French player ever and one of the best that ever graced a field.
He should've been part of the Argentina team at the 78' WC even if they won it without him. No one at the time understood Menotti's decision to leave him out.
Given the context and the way Maradona went on to win these trophies, I absolutely do.
I would like you to remember that Maradona got to play the European Cup (now Champions League for those who aren't aware of it) only twice and the knock-out format back then was much less forgiving than the current one. He still won the UEFA Winners Cup in 1989, which was also much more difficult than the current Europa League. Titles and stats only tell one part of the story and I'm honestly surprised that a knowledgeable CAF member such a yourself would resort to this kind of argument.
Now we get to the crux of the matter, and I suspect that the hand of god had a quite lasting effect on you.
I'm fully aware of Platini's achievements. I consider him as one of the all time greats and would take him over a CR7 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Above Maradona he is not, and no one in their right mind and/or without a massive amount of bias would argue otherwise.
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Platini was the best European footballer. I'd have him above Ronaldo. From 1981-1985, Platini's record is on another level. 3 Seria A titles, 3 golden boots, 3 Ballondors, 2 European club cups, 1 Euros, Golden boot and player of tournament. Throw in their 2 World Cups semi finals.
This was all as a Midfielder in the toughest league in the world at the time.
I think there are 20 full matches of Pele available on the internet or something like that. Most people here would have only seen 20 odd matches of any non-English league player before the proliferation of matches on TV in recent years. Football Italia started after Maradona left Serie A, and Napoli barely featured in the European Cup. So most people in their 40s or 50s probably saw 20-odd games of Maradona in their lives from World Cups, and the odd Barca or Napoli match, maybe when they played United? Or a final or something.
The reality is you don't need to watch 700 matches of someone to rate them, a smattering of games is enough to see they're good enough when supplemented by testimony from people who watched them every week. I'd say I've watched Barella (random example) play maybe 20 games in his career so far. I don't need to watch him play every week to know he's better than McTominay who I've watched play 300 times probably.
For me personally from everything I’ve ever read, watched videos and footage and also seen in entirety it’d be something like this,
Tier 1: Maradona, Messi, Pele
Tier 2: CR7, R9, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten, Eusebio, Di Stefano, Best, Charlton, Ronaldinho, Beckenbauer
It’s all so subjective but I’ve always believed that Messi was a far better player than Ronaldo outside of 2006-2008, Ronaldo is arguably the better goal scorer of the two but then Van Basten was a better goal scorer than Maradona yet nowhere near the same level as a player.
Tier 1: Maradona, Messi, Pele
Tier 2: CR7, R9, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten, Eusebio, Di Stefano, Best, Charlton, Ronaldinho, Beckenbauer
It’s all so subjective but I’ve always believed that Messi was a far better player than Ronaldo outside of 2006-2008, Ronaldo is arguably the better goal scorer of the two but then Van Basten was a better goal scorer than Maradona yet nowhere near the same level as a player.
Players I saw play.
Maradona
Messi
Ronaldo (Original).
Best three I've seen. Can't compare eras, though, the pitches are great these days and it's a become non contact sport. It's simply not the same game.
Maradona
Messi
Ronaldo (Original).
Best three I've seen. Can't compare eras, though, the pitches are great these days and it's a become non contact sport. It's simply not the same game.
I mean, plenty of people have that opinion. There's people who played with and against Maradona (let alone watching him on telly like the bystander likes of us) who think Messi is better.
With Argentines, I think a lot of it is that folk hero image that Maradona has, and he has that a lot more than the other three, due to his willingness to do and say controversial things.
I saw both play and I'd probably give Messi the edge, but it's close, and I do go back and forth a bit in my mind over it.
Platini was indeed awesome, but I don't know if we could quite say Serie A was the toughest league in the world for a lot of the time he was there, though he undeniably played a huge part in its resurgence. Those were the early years after the foreigner ban when it was just starting to take off again after some relatively low years, it didn't really fully solidify itself as the best until Platini was well in decline, the English got banned, and Sacchi's Milan emerged. That site that shows the retroactive uefa coefficients has it for the platini period as 82=12, 83=11, 84=5, 85=2, 86=1, 87=1...and it's not really until 91 and 92 that it opens up a big gap between the rest and keeps it for the rest of that decade.
Come on man, if you were indeed so troubled by that play, you'll find in the very same match and the whole tournament (and even his carreer) a way more despicable treatment against him. That freaking hand of God was a play in the heat of the moment that should have been called, but way less offensive than systematic fouling against him that wasn't just tactical (that BTW it's enough when it's systematic on one player), it was worse way over the top. Including elbows and any sort of hideous tackling.
Reading some people nowadays that with current VAR the only thing that would happen in that mtach, it's removing that goal, it's to the very least kind of funny.
On the other "hand", his gloating regarding the "hand of God" it's what I can get why so many people got offended by it and still it's quite an interest subject on its own that goes way beyond football itself.
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I'm not old enough nor knowledgeable enough to comment on Maradona and Pele but this...
Does he? Please elaborate.
As an English person myself, I still always find it 'funny' / hypocritical how there's so much outrage here about Maradona cheating with a handball in 1986 to help Argentina knock out England, yet so little said about Michael Owen cheating with his dive to win a penalty in 2002 to help England knock out Argentina.
Obviously I get why bias would mean each nation would be angered by one more than the other, but it's tough to play the moral outrage and victim when you accept / ignore the cheating of your own players.
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I'm a 51 Argie and even if still Diego is MY favorite player ever, it doesn't translate MY feelings towards him, to the best ever. In fact I find such thing silly as fvck regarding anyone.
PD: Cristiano having more to his game than Messi, I certainly do not share it at all.
I took the 'Ronaldo having more to his game than Messi' comment as meaning he evolved much more as three or four different types of players - winning the Ballon Dor as a right winger, left sided winger / striker, all round #9 and then just as an out and out goal poaching #9. Using both feet more often than the very left footed Messi, and possessing much more of an aerial threat. In fact that alone is symbolic of the transformation - from a lightweight right winger, easily brushed aside, to a #9 very powerful in the air.
Messi was also a fantastic genius. But mostly throughout as a small, very left footed #10. So there was less of an all round, complete transformation or two, or three, than what Ronaldo had.
That obviously doesn't mean one produced more than the other in terms of end product, or one was better than the other. But I think all those many variations and transformations of Ronaldo's game is the argument behind him having 'more' to his game in terms of different kinds of attributes and styles throughout his career.
Again, that's not to say which is best as I've already posted earlier that I don't really get involved with saying which of those in the conversation for the true greats of the game are 'better'. I don't think there's any conclusive proof either way. Just easier to say which few, of the many who've played the game, are the greats who merit being in and around that conversation. The rest is much more subjective with no real right or wrong answer about which of the greats is supposedly 'the best'.
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I trully think it's related to two things:
1. The view that most of us view elbowing, being rough, harsh tackles as "part of the game" and when a player responds with diving, with a hand, with some other sort of out of bounds trickery it's "not part of it".
The reality it's that BOTH are PART of the game, yet both are PUNISHED by the rules trying to avoid these stuff being used and be left from the game, so when those fouls are not called, it's trully annoying.
Even the whole romanticism towards "In hsi days Diego was hacked and continue playing without complaining" it's wrong (even when happened that he didn't complain) and not even right, because Diego complained a lot, but you'll get a yeallow by doing it (like agaisnt Gentile in 82).
The thing with Diego, it's that he was the epithome of ill treatment when it comes to tactical or sistematic fouling that it's way worse because is predeterminated even before the game starts. Even nowadays, we can see many interviews when former players talk about their team tactics against Messi, R9 and such where the idea was: just stop thse fellas, do whatever you have to do (even if fouls were less rough and brutal than in Di Stefanos, Pele's or Diego's days).
2. To this day I think Diego touched a nerve with the whole hand of God, piracy and the hipocrisy behind the higher moral ground in general, that even more than that and the whole Falklands/Malvinas too, it was just pure cunning.
In my view and not as a bad thing, on contrair, there never been a country that devolped a more cunning, streetwise, creative and intelligent way to survive and thrieve than England.
To this day I think that Shilton it'smaybe more bothererd of how he pulled out that manouver agaisnt him being a midget (while hiding it) than the whole moral and ethical angle of it. Of course Diego, was quite a disruptive fella himself, quite a Captain Drake his whole life, not precisly a beacon of light.
Even more ironic when you consider the current crop of England players is made up of serial cheats like Kane, Bellingham and Saka. These guys are never off their backs, Kane being the worst since he also loves to back in and endanger opponents when they’re going for headers.
I’d disagree with this a little though. When Ronaldo scored those 40 odd goals he was already past being an out and out winger. If you look at where he is when he scores most of those goals, they ain’t positions a right winger takes up. I’d say he was already a wide forward. Although he did still amass 20 odd goals then he was a winger which in itself was extremely impressive. In fact I remember one of the media guys saying United would need another goal threat because Ronaldo wouldn’t repeat his 20 goals a second time, and he ended up doubling it
I always thought Messi was the more complete player based purely on the fact he was an elite goalscorer and playmaker, I think being an elite scorer, dribbler and passer makes you more complete than just being able to score more goals with your head or weaker foot. Anyway, he started out as a wide player himself, played a ‘false 9’ role, then played a more traditional number 10, and finally went deeper as more of a playmaker/midfielder type which is what we’ve seen in recent years. Even as Ronaldo’s positions altered altered slightly it was still always all about goals with him.
BythatI mean aerial ability, strength, movement..not individual ability
Yes Linker springs to mind....but consistency, goals, longetivity......not in my criteria whichis more theability and top performanceandjust opinion but Maradona and ROnaldo of Brazil for me could individually just do things in the tightest of spaces that were wayabove Messi personally
Can you elaborate on that? What attributes beyond the physical ones, which are often over weighted, did Ronaldo develop and exceed Messi in?
Im not saying he was missing anything at all, he isobviously one ofthe best players of all time. The trophies for Bareclona though, that is arguably the best club side of all time,the stats are amazing.
But I disagree on all the "the best" labels you are giving him....., the playmaker one ludicrous to me,but.... he is abetter dribbler than Garincha for example?
I think that gets overblown, personally, in an attempt to search for a negative to undermine the huge goal tally.I’d disagree with this a little though. When Ronaldo scored those 40 odd goals he was already past being an out and out winger. If you look at where he is when he scores most of those goals, they ain’t positions a right winger takes up. I’d say he was already a wide forward. Although he did still amass 20 odd goals then he was a winger which in itself was extremely impressive. In fact I remember one of the media guys saying United would need another goal threat because Ronaldo wouldn’t repeat his 20 goals a second time, and he ended up doubling it
I always thought Messi was the more complete player based purely on the fact he was an elite goalscorer and playmaker, I think being an elite scorer, dribbler and passer makes you more complete than just being able to score more goals with your head or weaker foot. Anyway, he started out as a wide player himself, played a ‘false 9’ role, then played a more traditional number 10, and finally went deeper as more of a playmaker/midfielder type which is what we’ve seen in recent years. Even as Ronaldo’s positions altered altered slightly it was still always all about goals with him.
I think Messi has the most ever career assists. Which is a brilliant effort. But hasn't Ronaldo got close to 300 career assists, placing him in the top 10 of most ever, and so even more than plenty of the world's best ever playmakers?
Very harsh to say the player with something like the 6th most ever career assists was just 'all about the goals' all his career in my view. I think those assist numbers go very much under the radar and get ignored in order to push a different narrative.
Right because Ronaldo's aerial ability and strength outweighs his clear deficiencies in passing, dribbling and vision compared to Messi...