Rangnick & Ronaldo

[Hoof the ball]

Question.

If Ronaldo accumulates an average number of presses per game similar to previous seasons, will that have a tactical impact on the intensity and indeed the quality of the front-line press insofar as Rangnick's usual method of execution is concerned?

 

[tjb]

Ronaldo’s off the ball movement is as good as it gets. He won’t have an issue adjusting and doing what is asked of him. His intelligence already has him in the right places at the right times.

I think Pogba won’t start though to give a platform for forward players from midfield and allow us to play Sancho and Rashford for that pace and energy going forward.

One thing to note. Ragnick plays with a narrow high press. We 're used to seeing Cavani and Bruno make lung busting attempts to press due to the how much ground they have to cover and little support. Pressing would much easier for our players if the shape allows support.

 

[YouknowNani]

Is this going to be an issue, or will Rangnick tweak a system to get the best out of Ronaldo?

Ronaldo is very much the elephant in the room. He has a use and purpose for certain styles, but from what I have read and listened to about Rangnick, I struggle to see how Ronaldo fits into the "heavy metal" press approach. I read Rangnick introduced a 4222 at previous clubs, would this suit Ronaldo?

Or could it be that Ronaldo has some pressing capability in him yet? Ultimately he played under managers that didn't want to press high all the time, so could there be an argument that he will press if told, but he just hasn't been instructed to as such? Not sure how good he can be at 34, and I can see Rangnick phasing him out if he doesn't like what he sees.

By the way, 5 years ago Rangnick said this about Messi & Ronaldo:

When asked whether he would sign two of the best players in the world, he responded: "It would be absurd to think that it could work with them here. They are both too old and too expensive."

Ronaldo is 36 going on 37.

I don't think Ronaldo does have much pressing ability left in him to be honest. If he were to do it, he'd be less effective in front of goal due to expending energy pressing, that's the problem. It's certainly going to be very intriguing watching what Rangnick decides to do with him.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

For it too work, i think both individuals will have to compromise. Rangnick will have to compromise and alter his preferred style of play to avoid having a fall out with the joint biggest star in world football Ronaldo.

Ronaldo for the good of the team will have to do his part will need to adapt to fit in with the manger which will involving contributing more in terms of work-rate. Or possibly accept without ego being rotated more for the games were Rangnick decides he will need a player up front who will press.

If both individuals are capable of doing this then it is possible for it to work. But I suspect it wont be plain sailing when you have such polar opposite playing philosophies in such prominant roles at the club.

 

[TMDaines]

I like how people look at the skinny, flash runt who arrived from Lisbon, who transformed himself into a goalscoring, chiselled Adonis, and think that that guy is one afraid of doing hard work and not doing what it actually takes to succeed.

That’s one bad take. The second current bad take is people crudely referring to Ronaldo’s age as if he is an average 36-year-old, or even an average 36-year-old footballer. The guy is in the upper 90 percentiles of fitness for any player on the planet regardless of age.

 

[RedDribble]

For it too work, i think both individuals will have to compromise. Rangnick will have to compromise and alter his preferred style of play to avoid having a fall out with the joint biggest star in world football Ronaldo.

Ronaldo for the good of the team will have to do his part will need to adapt to fit in with the manger which will involving contributing more in terms of work-rate. Or possibly accept without ego being rotated more for the games were Rangnick decides he will need a player up front who will press.

If both individuals are capable of doing this then it is possible for it to work. But I suspect it wont be plain sailing when you have such polar opposite playing philosophies in such prominant roles at the club.

As a fan of the club and for the long term, I really want Rangnick to not compromise at all for one player. If he has a solution to integrate Ronaldo in the team and Ronaldo is also willing to press then Great! but if not, Rangnick should send out the 11 players that "he" wants.

 

[Dante]

Ronaldo is just going to have to accept his new normal.

Instead of playing 50 games per season at 60% energy drain, he's going to need to cut that down to 35 games per season but at 90% energy drain. So he'll no longer be an automatic first choice every match. And that's fine because United's forward options are numerous enough to deal with his inevitable rest days.

He'll probably still start every single major game, though. But the expectation will be that he runs himself into the ground in those matches and then sits it out for a week or two after.

If he can swallow all of that, he'll get on fine with RR. If he can't, he'll need to move to a less competitive league to prolong his career. Because high pressing has become the norm for every major CL team and we all have to move with the times.

 

[NewGlory]

A good manager knows exactly how to use all his players effectively. No two are the same and some won't always fit the "mould" but a good manager will still be able to get the best out of them.

This. 100%. What makes Rangnick great is that he understands principles and then applies them to the squad he has rather than throwing tantrum for not getting the squad that fits his imaginary needs (*cough* Mourinho). I am certain Rngnick will figure-out how to best use Ronaldo. I am also expecting that Ronaldo will not start every game and play every game 90+ minutes, anymore. And I expect both of those things will be OK as long as our football improves and we are playing well. Ronaldo is a big boy, he will understand.

 

[Nordmore]

A good manager knows exactly how to use all his players effectively. No two are the same and some won't always fit the "mould" but a good manager will still be able to get the best out of them.

You make me think SAF, Klopp, Pep etc. has never sold any player in their entire career. One common thing about the good managers is they're all very ruthless. Any player that they have no use, don't want to or can't do what they want got benched or sold.

 

[Foxbatt]

Pressing and running like a headless chicken are two different things.

 

[Teja]

Pressing and running like a headless chicken are two different things.

Yes but his pressures per 90 stats are pretty dire. Messi is quite possibly the only player in the world who attempts fewer pressures and covers less distance than Ronaldo.

You have to carry him to an extent in a pressing system which we can with players like Rashford, Bruno (headless chicken prime), Sancho, McFred etc.

Rangnick won't be much of a tactician if he can't adapt to one player who runs a bit less.

 

[RedDribble]

Simply consider this, would Klopp ever replace (current) Ronaldo for Jota or Firminho? If you do think so, you have absolutely no understanding of Klopp's style.

Like I said in an earlier post, pressing is not really about talent so Ronaldo can do it, but it depends on him if he will change his playing to fit the team.

The moment he turns into a pressing player his score record will not improve and he will not play every game. If Ronaldo accepts that, he still has a chance to make impact for this team, else it's better for him to leave.

Also, a manager should not change his philosophy to accommodate one player specially when he is 36.

 

[Foxbatt]

Yes but his pressures per 90 stats are pretty dire. Messi is quite possibly the only player in the world who attempts fewer pressures and covers less distance than Ronaldo.

You have to carry him to an extent in a pressing system which we can with players like Rashford, Bruno (headless chicken prime), Sancho, McFred etc.

Rangnick won't be much of a tactician if he can't adapt to one player who runs a bit less.

I do not think he has played in a team that does pressing. All he needs to do is to stop one channel of passing and his job is done if all others do their job.

 

[Teja]

I do not think he has played in a team that does pressing. All he needs to do is to stop one channel of passing and his job is done if all others do their job.

Yes but ultimately you need to move side to side the full width of the pitch at pace.. something he has never bothered with.

Quick switch by the opposition from FB -> Opposing full back and he has to run the same way he does on a counter attack.

 

[Sviken]

Simply consider this, would Klopp ever replace (current) Ronaldo for Jota or Firminho? If you do think so, you have absolutely no understanding of Klopp's style.

I think that's a bunch of nonsense, really. Klopp doesn't need Ronaldo much because he has Salah and Mane who are deadly in front of the goal. But if you ask Pep the same question, who has a similar intensive style, I'd think he'd pick Ronaldo 10 times out of 10, if he had the opportunity and he'd be strolling the league right now.

 

[Member 117152]

Rangnick was asked 2016 whether he would rather sign Ronaldo or Messi for RB Leipzig.

His answer was neither of them, because they are too old.
The RB clubs have it had a policy to sign only players younger than 25 years it even younger.

That was a PR spin. If you put either on a silver platter for him a Leipzig he would have been a mad man not to have taken one and he would probably agree also. Timo Werner or Ronaldo? Hard decision that one

 

[justsomebloke]

If you read about Rangnick's principles, preferred style of play and general approach, you can't really get away from the fact that Ronaldo represents pretty much the polar opposite of what you read, on pretty much every major point. So I'm not entirely convinced that it's as simple as "a good manager adjusts to get the best out of good players". I don't think that's necessarily true. I also think it's not necessarily a good thing if they do.

 

[doomy20]

I don’t understand why people bring this up all the time. We are talking about the potentially best footballer who ever walked on this planet. Even now he is immediately the top performer in our team. As a manager: FIND a way to include him, otherwise your system is bad.

 

[smi11ie]

Ralf is going to love Ronaldo, I don't understand the concern at all. Ronaldo is not a problem, he is an excellent trainer, a team player and totally proffesional.

 

[The White Pele]

Ronaldo may not be his perfect striker but when Rangnick led Schalke to the Champions League semi finals he did so with a 33 year old Raul upfront.

Hopefully he will show he can be pragmatic in the short term.

 

[#07]

Ronaldo may not be his perfect striker but when Rangnick led Schalke to the Champions League semi finals he did so with a 33 year old Raul upfront.

Hopefully he will show he can be pragmatic in the short term.

Exactly and it's not like Raul was tearing about like a Jack Russell. People mistake running around for pressing. The two are not the same things.

 

[captaincantona]

I think opinions in here again weighted toward Ronaldo (“he is the GOAT, top performer, out of CL without him, great mentality and trainer”) all have varying levels of truth but have little relevance to the fact that if Ronaldo in any way limits the development of the team toward gegenpress heaven...the team should not be reshaped to accommodate him.

It is universally accepted that the best players don’t always make the best teams - as PSG found out against city or how a 19 year old with almost Zero game time pre-CL debut can slot into Liverpool’s midfield seamlessly. Rangnick is in a similar vein to Klopp and Pep in that he has a philosophy and “a clear idea of what a perfect game should look like“ (his own words)...we as Utd fans have been starved of that leadership and trust in a manager. It would be silly to say that Ronaldo fits Rangnick’s ideal vision of a team pressing high and winning the ball high. (like Klopp, Rangnick has stated openly that a good high counter press creates a more threatening attacking situation than the best number ten in the world)...the system comes first and Ronaldo doesn’t, on paper, fit that system.

Not an agenda against Ronaldo - so back off CR7 Avengers...Rangnick himself said he would prefer young energetic players with no ego that will sacrifice individual gains for the team - does that sound likeRonaldo? the system that uses Ronaldo’s abilities effectively is almost the opposite of what Rangnick is known for...I for one want the team to go full balls to the walls heavy metal AC/DC...accommodating Ronaldo will water down that approach in one way or another...we could end up sounding like the the Counting Crows. Don’t take that risk Ralf...if it isn’t working straight of the bat...bench him and Octoberfest the shit outta the place!

 

[Ralph1386]

Ronaldo will not be a problem. He’ll be the least of Ragnick’s worries.

 

[#07]

Ronaldo may not be his perfect striker but when Rangnick led Schalke to the Champions League semi finals he did so with a 33 year old Raul upfront.

Hopefully he will show he can be pragmatic in the short term.

Exactly and it's not like Raul was tearing about like a Jack Russell for Rangnick. People mistake running around for pressing. The two are not the same things.

 

[captaincantona]

Ronaldo will not be a problem. He’ll be the least of Ragnick’s worries.

Very head in the sand view I think..Every football fan on the planet would happily accept that Ronaldo needs a team to play to his strengths. Therefore you would have to admit that he is in some way a problem...A coach coming in HAS to play in a way that suits him primarily as opposed to playing in a way that might suit the other 25 squad members ie. the team as a whole...if you leave him on the bench it’s a media shit storm which again causes more shit for the manager when we lose or draw and Ronaldo was on the bench etc. he is most definitely a problem is many ways imo.

When Ronaldo signed I said-he would be amazing if he accepted a role off the bench and used his experience around the club to help raise standards. If he was first name of the team sheet we would struggle. I maintain that. I hope Rangnick doesn’t compromise his philosophy and we lose another two years essentially to facilitate Ronaldo dragging us through games against shite opposition and simultaneously lauding him for somehow being a saviour and the only good thing about the club.

It’s the emperors new clothes...
If you look at what Rangnick has done with much less talented players at those German clubs, then the youth and talent we have in the squad and coming through could surely be moulded to similar effect. That shouldn’t be set aside to keep Ronaldo happy and that transition should happen immediately. If Ronny fits that transition then amazing...brilliant...I will be delighted...if he doesn’t...he should not be pandered to at the cost of the overall progress of the team.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Very head in the sand view I think..Every football fan on the planet would happily accept that Ronaldo needs a team to play to his strengths. Therefore you would have to admit that he is in some way a problem...A coach coming in HAS to play in a way that suits him primarily as opposed to playing in a way that might suit the other 25 squad members ie. the team as a whole...if you leave him on the bench it’s a media shit storm which again causes more shit for the manager when we lose or draw and Ronaldo was on the bench etc. he is most definitely a problem is many ways imo.

When Ronaldo signed I said-he would be amazing if he accepted a role off the bench and used his experience around the club to help raise standards. If he was first name of the team sheet we would struggle. I maintain that. I hope Rangnick doesn’t compromise his philosophy and we lose another two years essentially to facilitate Ronaldo dragging us through games against shite opposition and simultaneously lauding him for somehow being a saviour and the only good thing about the club.

It’s the emperors new clothes...
If you look at what Rangnick has done with much less talented players at those German clubs, then the youth and talent we have in the squad and coming through could surely be moulded to similar effect. That shouldn’t be set aside to keep Ronaldo happy and that transition should happen immediately. If Ronny fits that transition then amazing...brilliant...I will be delighted...if he doesn’t...he should not be pandered to at the cost of the overall progress of the team.

If Ronaldo isn't willing to follow instructions for the betterment of the team, he's going to be dropped. Or at least should.

This is about the success of the team and if catering to one individual mitigates what the manager is trying to do, that player has to either be dropped or change his style.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

As a fan of the club and for the long term, I really want Rangnick to not compromise at all for one player. If he has a solution to integrate Ronaldo in the team and Ronaldo is also willing to press then Great! but if not, Rangnick should send out the 11 players that "he" wants.

Personly I think dropping Ronaldo would cos such a crap storm in the media, with the fans, with the club’s hierarchy, even in the dressing, that it will completely derail Rangnick and undermine his role and any future role he has at the club.

So I don’t think Rangnick has much choice but to pick Ronaldo in the majority of the games whether he would be his first choice or not.

 

[captaincantona]

Personly I think dropping Ronaldo would cos such a crap storm in the media, with the fans, with the club’s hierarchy, even in the dressing, that it will completely derail Rangnick and undermine his role and any future role he has at the club.

So I don’t think Rangnick has much choice but to pick Ronaldo in the majority of the games whether he would be his first choice or not.

This is the fear of many fans...which coach could feasibly leave Ronny or Messi on the bench and keep their job? ...only Pep I would say...although both those players could probably play i a city team such is their level and dominance with the ball.

 

[Long Time Red]

Rangnick isn't an idiot, he will realise that playing Ronaldo is his best chance for success here.

I think the template we should think about how we will look is Hansi Flick's Bayern team.

Lewandoski is hardly the world's greatest presser but he was effective enough that the players behind him were able to win the ball.

 

[angak]

Ronaldo will be the one player of enough quality to work around.
It's getting the rest of them pressing hard that will be the fun part.

If you can't figure out how to use the worlds best footballer, you need to re-think football management.

Ronaldo will not be a problem. He’ll be the least of Ragnick’s worries.

I could've picked out a few more posts to highlight but I'm shocked that a lot of people on here don't see Ronaldo as an issue in the 'what do we do when we don't have the ball' phase of Rangnick philosophy. The idea you can press with one less player as Rangnick says is like being 'half pregnant'. We need to be able to separate Ronaldo's ability when we do have the ball ( which is obviously quality) to the liability he is when we don't have the ball. Adding to the matter is that Ronaldo hates being rotated or even subbed. I think he threw a fit after the Everton game when he was subbed in at halftime and also the Tottenham game when Ole subbed him out.

Regardless, in Rangnick system the best playmaker in the team is the 'team press'. The idea being winning the ball back higher up the pitch creates clear goal scoring opportunities as the opposition have less time to get bodies behind the ball and organise defensively.

The question is, does Ronaldo's offensive qualities outweigh his clear flaws when we don't have the ball? So in other words, do we create more chances and concede less with say Cavani/ Rashford or Greenwood upfront then we would with Ronaldo? These are the questions I'm sure Rangnick will need to work through, including weighing up media/fan outcry if he benched or dropped.

My personal view is that a front two of Rashford and Greenwood would be amazing. Within 12-24 months it would be a crazy combination of speed & skill coupled with intense high pressing that would strike fear into opposition teams. The idea that these two are on the bench or rotating while Ronaldo hogs 90mins of every game is bewildering to me. As great as Ronaldo is and has been we should be prioritising our future.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

This is the fear of many fans...which coach could feasibly leave Ronny or Messi on the bench and keep their job? ...only Pep I would say...although both those players could probably play i a city team such is their level and dominance with the ball.

I really can’t see how Ronaldo fits in a Pep city team, he has never played with a tradional number 9 that he is happy to allow basically to be a passenger out of possession. Pep dropped Aguero when he first went to City for not working hard enough and again when he got towards the end of his time for not been able to cover the ground. At Barca Pep fell out with Zlatan for the same issue and he wanted to use him as a plan B which I obviously never went well. Personally I would have loved to have seen how Ronaldo worked at city personly I think it would have unraveled very quickly as there styles are so at odds.

Messi is an intresting one though, when messi was with Pep at Barca, Messi ran and pressed. That’s obviously different to modern messi whose work rate is only marginally higher than Ronaldos. So what would happen if he played for Pep now? Would be very interesting.

But I’m not sure even Pep would be untouched if he had Ronaldo or Messi and dropped them for tactical reasons think it would completely overshadow any club and any manager.

Thats the decision you make by bringing in Ronaldo, even an aging Ronaldo, it 100% changes the dynamic of the club for good and bad.

The good is you get them to pull goals out the bag when your playing terrible, like we have seen time and again with Ronaldo.

The bad is you really can only play is that it’s not what’s the best tactics and team of 11 you can put out.it’S what’s the best 10 players you can play with this mega star and what tactic best suits this megastar.

 

[JuriM]

Ronaldo have been through so many different managers and still there and scoring, he is the last to worry about. He is just that good and finds his way in every formation.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Rangnick isn't an idiot, he will realise that playing Ronaldo is his best chance for success here.

I think the template we should think about how we will look is Hansi Flick's Bayern team.

Lewandoski is hardly the world's greatest presser but he was effective enough that the players behind him were able to win the ball.

Rangnick indeed isn't an idiot, especially when Cavani doesn't possess health to carry this team through full season and Martial, Rash & Mason are in the phase of shifting form.

Ronaldo so far is the only constant in our attacking setup. That of course doesn't mean he won't require break to recharge batteries. Even Bruno needs one and it's evident.

 

[CM]

Rangnick will find a way to make it work with Ronaldo.

Ronaldo clearly won't become a pressing machine but it's a good thing to have someone who will demand more from him than the previous manager. I imagine Rangnick will create an organised enough structure around Ronaldo that it won't matter so much.

 

[mancan92]

Personly I think dropping Ronaldo would cos such a crap storm in the media, with the fans, with the club’s hierarchy, even in the dressing, that it will completely derail Rangnick and undermine his role and any future role he has at the club.

So I don’t think Rangnick has much choice but to pick Ronaldo in the majority of the games whether he would be his first choice or not.

Why would he drop him when he is the top performer in the team?

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Why would he drop him when he is the top performer in the team?

Because Rangnick can’t play he preferred style of football which is very heavy on pressing with Ronaldo up front.

But it’s Ronaldo and when you have Ronaldo what ever tactics a manger wants to play rightly or wrongly take a back seat to what’s the tactic and 10 players that will get the best out of Ronaldo. Which has good and bad points.

 

[Ralph1386]

Very head in the sand view I think..

No it’s not, and time will prove it. People need to stop looking at his age and look at his actual performances this year. There’s only one game this year where you could criticize him for not pressing enough, and he corrected it at the very next game. He’s also been the healthiest and most consistent of all our forwards this year.

 

[mancan92]

Because Rangnick can’t play he preferred style of football which is very heavy on pressing with Ronaldo up front.

But it’s Ronaldo and when you have Ronaldo what ever tactics a manger wants to play rightly or wrongly take a back seat to what’s the tactic and 10 players that will get the best out of Ronaldo. Which has good and bad points.

I mean sure but let's be honest we have done nothing to tailor our team to Ronaldo except from play him. Doesn't even have priority of pens or free kicks. Yet still constantly produces.

 

[Idxomer]

I mean sure but let's be honest we have done nothing to tailor our team to Ronaldo except from play him. Doesn't even have priority of pens or free kicks. Yet still constantly produces.

In the CL but not in the league. He has 1 goal in his last 7 league games, and it's not like he hasn't missed any chances.

 

[Dyslexic Untied]

Ronaldo is likely the most professional and best trained player ever. I am sure the two of them will find a way to make it work.