Rangnick for next season or Poch in the summer?

[golden_blunder]

ETH or Potter

BUT if the choice was RR or Poch

it would have to be RR

 

[Laurencio]

Not saying your wrong as it’s all opinions from everyone but you saying he had them over performing is just your opinion and not a fact. You don’t have any trophies to point at that which could prove it.

I understand the transfer spend was like net 0 over his time there and trust me I do understand he did a good job. However, having the best striker in the premier league at the time come through their academy obviously saved them a lot of money. Sometimes the stars align a bit like class of 92 and a team can be fantastic quality despite low spend.

In the context of Poch for the Man Utd job, do you truely believe he will beat Pep, Klopp and Tuchel or do you think he will juat do a good job like he did at Tottenham (Not a bad job but not an amazing job either)?

While it is all opinions. I believe it is not a stretch to suggest that most people did not believe Spurs would consistently finish in the top 4/top 3 and reach a CL final at the time Pochettino took over. Kane's emergence was great for them, but they've had great players before - most notably Gareth Bale just before Pochettino took over.

As for the "good job at spurs" comment. I think Pochettino did an amazing job at Spurs actually. They were entertaining for much of his time there, and performed well above what most people voiced was their ceiling at the time. He did the same at Southampton as well.

As for how how he'd do against Pep, Klopp and Tuchel I have no idea. As with most appointments - you don't really know until they are in the job. Pochettino is not a random manager from a fourth tier country, and it is perfectly reasonable to believe he could do well managing in the Premier League with the kind of resources we have. He is rightly not the only option on the table, obviously, but we shouldn't pretend he's a bad one.

If you want a manager with Trophies go get Ancelotti. No one better. None of the options reported to be on the table aside from Enrique (Ten Hag, Pochettino, Lopetegui, Rangnick) have a particularly impressive list of trophies - so that is hardly an argument against Pochettino compared to the rest.

 

[troylocker]

To be fair, I really hope this isn't the only two options. I just don't want Poch here, because it will be a long expensive contract and I can't see how he will take us to the next level. A serial non-winner. There must be better options or gambles out there.

 

[copen1945]

I like his straightforward style. The football is coming around, starting from the defensive side. Now that Ronaldo has become the singular figure leading the line, the goal scoring should get fixed.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

The club made the right choice bringing in RR as interim if that was the price to be paid to have him as a consultant for the next 2 years but we've learnt from experience that ripping up plan A because of a few good results isn't the way to go.

I do find it a little weird the disdain people have for Poch. I'm pretty sure if people were asked before the 18/19 CL final the vast majority would of voted for him to be our manager. He lost the final, had a bad couple of months due to mitigating circumstances the following season and all of a sudden he's a has been manager. It's almost as if the 8 years of constant plaudits he received before were a figment of peoples imagination. Now apparently he's burnt out, reached his peak, on his way down? I think a bit of perspective is needed and I think comparing Poch with RR isn't the way to do it.

 

[lysglimt]

Look at Pochettinos signings for Spurs in his last 3 or so seasons, and then I don't have to explain why I dont want him anywhere near our club. We have struggled with a lot of bad signings, then it puzzles me that some people really worship Pochettino who only bought failures in his last 3 or so seasons at Spurs.

 

[Mickson]

I find it fascinating that so many would choose Rangnick, what has he done as a manager in the last ten years? I don't think Pochettino is a perfect choice but he is far better and more proven than Rangnick.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Definitely Ralf in this strange binary choice situation. But Ten Hag has to be top of the list, he is the most exciting option. Pochettino struggles to get in my top five choices but I think he is the guy the club will go for unfortunately.

 

[lysglimt]

Taking So'ton to 7th and improving Spurs was good stuff, but not worthy of this blind admiration. He has so much to thank Lloris, Kane, Eriksen, Son and young Alli for.
That Spurs CL run was one of the luckiest we have seen, tbf.

8th place actually - but yes I agree with what you are saying. What however should be taken into consideration was that he had a really good Southampton-side:

Luke Shaw, Nathan Clyne, Jose Fonte, Ricky Lambert, Jack Cork, Adam Lallana, James Ward Prowse, Steven Davies, Dejan Lovren and Victor Wanyama, Morgan Schneiderlin to name some of the players - and only Wanyama and Lovren were bought by Poch - the rest he inherited from Nigel Adkins. And the sacking of Adkins must go down as one of the strangest in P.L history. He had an awful start in Southamptons first season in the P.L where they lost 8 of the first 10 matches - leaking 28 goals.

But Adkins turned it around and Southampton lost 2 of the next 12 games - and Adkins still got fired after a 2-2 draw against Chelsea. And when you look at what the majority of these players have done in the P.L - was it really such a great achievement to take them to 8th place with 56 points in 38 matches ?

 

[JPRouve]

That doesn't explain why Conte got so few votes in next manager thread. Shiny new toy syndrome (SNTS) is real.
I would prefer ETH too but some of the dismissal of Pochettino is over the top in my opinion. The fact that Rangnick (who most hadn't heard of 3 months ago) is seen as superior choice further reinforces my belief that SNTS affects fans.

This isn't a dig at Rangnick either and I am open to the idea that he can still improve us. If he improves us significantly between now and the end of the season then by all means he can continue as our manager and I'd prefer him over Poch. If Rangnick was to scrape top 4 and there was little sign of change in our play I'd take Pochettino over him.
One thing that is not mentioned and is important imo is how being an interim can have a negative effect on team stability. Players are willing to push the envelope in ways they wouldn't dare with a permanent manager.(almost like substitution teacher effect). The sooner we appoint a permanent manager the better.

A large part of the caf thinks that Conte is exactly like Mourinho in terms of toxicity and that he plays a defensive brand of Football. And at some point Pochettino was pretty high himself but his current stint at PSG after 12 to 18 underwhelming months at Tottenham has seen his stock plummet.

And then there are people like myself who still believe that Pochettino is a good coach and would be a good short term candidate but not my favorite long term bet. The reason being that he has an history of not winning and not be bothered by it, I can understand not winning the CL or PL but I can't understand the pathetic performances in EL, I can't understand the lack of silverware in national cups and I can't accept the excuses that he gives every time, at Tottenham he down played the prospect of winning a cup and at PSG he claimed that people were too demanding. So I question his mentality when it comes to the highest level and having to compete with the very best because the way he has been up until this point, Pochettino will be content as an also-ran.

 

[UnsungHero]

We can't continue with an interim manager. Even for another season. It's already a problem.

Poch will be fine. He did well previously and with our financial power, he should be able to raise his level.

I don't care about the PSG situation as they are a drama club (not dissimilar to us in some ways), but we need to let Poch have a clear out early on to head that off.

Forget ETH. Far too adventurous for our board, and he'd likely fail due to no structure.

 

[Devil may care]

Why are these the only 2 choices? Out of them I'd keep Rangnick and let him continue to weed through the mess he's started to get a grip on, Poch bores me and he's not got the personality or the edge we need to get this ship straightened out and his football is dull.

 

[11101]

I've never wanted Poch and PSG is only reinforcing that.

Ragnick is not perfect but he is temporary, and happy to step aside when we find the right candidate.

 

[gajender]

Why are these the only 2 choices? Out of them I'd keep Rangnick and let him continue to weed through the mess he's started to get a grip on, Poch bores me and he's not got the personality or the edge we need to get this ship straightened out and his football is dull.

Thats the thing isn't it I can overlook his other flaws but after witnessing such abysmal football for most part after Sir Alex's retirement can't we just get a manager whose football can bring entertainment and X factor back at United .

 

[iHicksy]

We can't continue with an interim manager. Even for another season. It's already a problem.

Poch will be fine. He did well previously and with our financial power, he should be able to raise his level.

I don't care about the PSG situation as they are a drama club (not dissimilar to us in some ways), but we need to let Poch have a clear out early on to head that off.

Forget ETH. Far too adventurous for our board, and he'd likely fail due to no structure.

Disagree. Like you said, PSG are quite similar to us in many ways. He's not been able to handle the ego's of the PSG players and get the most talented front three in world football to Gel. He's not even coming close to dominating in a league with zero competition with even more financial fire power than us and a squad laden with talent from top to bottom. That's an almost identical situation to United. However, our league is 10x more competitive and the squad make-up almost identical but the United job comes up much more pressure and world wide media scrutiny. I see nothing to show that he's the man for the job. Quite the opposite in fact. We seem to be basing our decision of achievements (if we're calling top 4 with spurs and a CL final achievements of note) from 4 years ago.

 

[pascell]

My obvious choice is ten Hag. I just don't rate Poch that much, although I understand that his hands are tied with the system he can play because of the attitudes he's got in his team but they'd be no different here.

I also would prefer to give Rangnick another season but I like him and the players are starting to listen to his ideas and put a shift in, attitudes are changing and players are finally being shown the door.

 

[Bestietom]

I think the club has already made their mind up on new manager. If it was Rangnick he would have been allowed bring in a couple of players that he wanted in January.

 

[kthanksbye]

Will vote after the games against Atletico, City and Liverpool. Would like to see how we play in the big games. Results won't necessarily influence me much, I want to see how we setup and how he's able to motivate the squad.

 

[Maluco]

I just can't get my head around this blind fascination for Poch the manager and the need to defend the claim that he is this flawless world class manager. He managed to take 1 point out of 6 against Lille in Ligue 1 last season, so the Ligue 1 title was all in his hands. He also managed to lose against Lorient, Nantes and Monaco and lose points againt St. Etienne and Rennes. He manages a club with 4 x the resources of the closest rival in the Ligue, but you manage to actually claim (and mean it) that him not winning the league was down to Lille having a fantastic season, after giving us the lecture about how winning trophies with Spurs was an impossible task........

Absolutely mindblowing!

Do you think PSG is looking convincing with him behind the wheels? (probably the strongest squad in the world on paper)
After 13 months in the club he is already a dead man walking there.

Taking So'ton to 7th and improving Spurs was good stuff, but not worthy of this blind admiration. He has so much to thank Lloris, Kane, Eriksen, Son and young Alli for.
That Spurs CL run was one of the luckiest we have seen, tbf.

He was thrust in mid season to a team which wasn’t doing well. It’s not blind admiration. If anything, it’s blind to judge him on those six months at PSG rather than 7 years of a body of work in the PL.

I will put it this way for you. Name me a manager in the history of the Premier League, that has done better with a non-top 4 (plus City) team?

None of this revisionism that they were a top 4 side before he came, they weren’t. There is a massive gulf between finishing 5th/6th/7th and getting into the top 4 consistently. If there wasn’t, someone/anyone would have done it before then.

Moyes time at Everton is very highly rated, as an example, but in all those years, he scraped in once and immediately lost his playoff. Poch got in every single year and took them to a final!

I don’t care if he doesn’t come to United, I am just tired of people who don’t rate a superb job at Spurs because he didn’t pick up a Carabao Cup as he did it.

It was him who raised the expectations of what Spurs were capable of. He is a victim of his own success.

 

[Lord Zlatan]

Been impressed with Ralph. I like his no nonsense style and his press conferences are interesting as opposed to Ole's rambling style. The defence has shored up, he has cleared out a lot of players in January that arent being played and he doesnt seem afraid to stand up to player power. If there has been a downside it was the game management against Villa but I'm putting that down to premier league inexperience. Wouldnt be the worst decision our board has ever made to carry on with him

 

[Kaos]

I find it fascinating that so many would choose Rangnick, what has he done as a manager in the last ten years? I don't think Pochettino is a perfect choice but he is far better and more proven than Rangnick.

What has Poch done? And how is he more proven? Both have won the same number of trophies in England.

Rangnick might not have a CV filled with illustrative clubs, but we at least know he has expertise in building/re-building clubs (something we desperately need), and with him you see clear roadmap to how he wants his team to play.

Poch just feels like he's still riding on the back of getting Southampton to finish 8th and Spurs to finish in the top 4 , while underwhelming with PSG.

Neither are ideal choices, but of the two only Rangnick gives us a clear plan to build the foundations for future success IMO. Poch just feels like someone we'll inevitably sack in 3 years after winning nothing.

 

[Mickson]

What has Poch done? And how is he more proven? Both have won the same number of trophies in England.

Rangnick might not have a CV filled with illustrative clubs, but we at least know he has expertise in building/re-building clubs (something we desperately need), and with him you see clear roadmap to how he wants his team to play.

Poch just feels like he's still riding on the back of getting Southampton to finish 8th and Spurs to finish in the top 4 , while underwhelming with PSG.

Neither are ideal choices, but of the two only Rangnick gives us a clear plan to build the foundations for future success IMO. Poch just feels like someone we'll inevitably sack in 3 years after winning nothing.

For one thing, he has managed a team that has challenged for the biggest trophies. If he hasn't won anything in England isn't really important to me, I judge on what they have in front of them and his work was impressive in both Southampton and Spurs. Rangnick is 60+ and still hasn't really done anything special as a coach. I would like Rangnick as a DoF, but not as a football coach.

 

[Kaos]

For one thing, he has managed a team that has challenged for the biggest trophies. If he hasn't won anything in England isn't really important to me, I judge on what they have in front of them and his work was impressive in both Southampton and Spurs. Rangnick is 60+ and still hasn't really done anything special as a coach. I would like Rangnick as a DoF, but not as a football coach.

PSG? He's also been pretty much their only manager in recent history to fail to win what's essentially a one horse race. A pretty damning indication.

Blanc and Emery have won titles at PSG, would they be more suited than Rangnick today?

 

[pocco]

Why is Poch, so highly rated?

Yes, he did a good job at Spurs, but was then sacked after a terrible run and some how failed to win the League with PSG, which should be an automatic sacking really and is frankly embarrassing, considering the talent they have.

Didn't Poch only come in half way through the season last year? This is his first full season and he's strolling the league. Besides, Tuchel was struggling there and he won the CL at Chelsea. Football isn't so simple.

 

[Mickson]

PSG? He's also been pretty much their only manager in recent history to fail to win what's essentially a one horse race. A pretty damning indication.

Blanc and Emery have won titles at PSG, would they be more suited than Rangnick today?

He took Spurs to a CL final. But yes, he also manages PSG which obviously says something. He is a much better manager than Rangnick and his record shows that.

 

[pocco]

PSG? He's also been pretty much their only manager in recent history to fail to win what's essentially a one horse race. A pretty damning indication.

Blanc and Emery have won titles at PSG, would they be more suited than Rangnick today?

Tuchel struggling and got sacked there. Then won the CL with Chelsea in the same season and turned them around. He was replaced by Poch who had half a season and couldn't turn it round immediately, but has now.

There's so many mitigating factors and issues with the PSG argument that it's worthless. If it's so easy then why did Tuchel struggle? He's a better manager than ETH, Poch and Rangnick.

 

[Dec9003]

PSG? He's also been pretty much their only manager in recent history to fail to win what's essentially a one horse race. A pretty damning indication.

Blanc and Emery have won titles at PSG, would they be more suited than Rangnick today?

Emery also had a season without winning the league at PSG didn’t he? Looking at trophies Emery would absolutely be more suited than Rangnick.

 

[Dec9003]

I can understand not wanting Poch, I’d take him but I wouldn’t be delighted if we got him. Why would people people take Rangnick over him though? I can’t help but feel it’s recency bias after winning a couple of matches.

 

[Hansi Fick]

PSG? He's also been pretty much their only manager in recent history to fail to win what's essentially a one horse race. A pretty damning indication.

Blanc and Emery have won titles at PSG, would they be more suited than Rangnick today?

Both Eméry and Ancelotti failed to win the league at PSG once

 

[NewYorkRed]

People mostly hate on Poch because he didn’t win the league last year. Umm guys, its pro sports. Its not psg’s God given right to win that league every year. It. Happens.

Poch is a terrific manager and should be our number one choice.

 

[shaky]

People mostly hate on Poch because he didn’t win the league last year. Umm guys, its pro sports. Its not psg’s God given right to win that league every year. It. Happens.

Poch is a terrific manager and should be our number one choice.

Many people have not wanted Poch long before he went to PSG. His PSG record is just confirming their concerns about his ability.

 

[kouroux]

If it's between the 2 then Poch can feck off as far as I'm concerned.

 

[noodlehair]

Rangnick talks a lot of sense and still hoping he can get us playing in some kind of consistent and recognised way, but he doesn't seem to want to stay on longer than a year or two so unless the right person isn't available I don't see the point in him remaining manager next season.

Never understood the Pochettino obsession though. I mean if we appoint him I'd want him to do well, but his reputation is mainly based on people pretending he did a much better job at Spurs than he did. There were people on here who genuinely didn't enjoy any of our better moments under Ole because they were too busy slagging him off for not being Pochettino...even though he basically did the exact same job at United as Pochettiono did at Spurs...made them a bit better for a while, didn't win anything then got sacked when it all went to shite. Why is there this presumption he would do any better just because its United and not Spurs?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I think we can all agree that Poch - as things stand right now - would be an extremely divisive figure.

Using the Caf as a barometer, I'd guess that if we did a poll here and now - "Poch, yea or nay" - he'd get no more than 25-30%.

(Definitely well below 50% at any rate).

 

[Teja]

Poch can probably handle the players / media a bit better - Rangnick just does not have the filter and it feels like we're this close to him saying something stupid and have it blow up.

Happened with the Martial selection comments and with Lingard recently.

Still voted for Rangnick.

 

[b82REZ]

I think we can all agree that Poch - as things stand right now - would be an extremely divisive figure.

Using the Caf as a barometer, I'd guess that if we did a poll here and now - "Poch, yea or nay" - he'd get no more than 25-30%.

(Definitely well below 50% at any rate).

No different to any manager since Fergie then.

 

[NoPace]

So you don't know but will rule out Poch? On what premise?

I wouldn't rule out Poch, but I'd have Potter ahead of him and possibly Ten Hag (particularly if VDS would come with), though I don't watch Ajax in the Eredivisie enough, but they're just so damn good and he's done it with Tadic and now Haller up top and players who don't get hurt (like Neres) seem to improve, though I guess that happens at Ajax generally.

We should have hired Poch instead of Van Gaal, after he turned Southampton into an analytically top team, which I wrote here then (though I had Klopp, Rodgers and Simeone in a bracket ahead of him which is right enough, but also had Rudi Garcia, Bielsa and said De Boer was worth looking into, which is one great choice (Bielsa) one that would have been similar to Van Gaal and obviously De Boer was not worth looking into).

"Pochettino's pressing numbers this season with Southampton (most possession while employing sloppy passes = a fit team working both hard and intelligently to get the ball back) were so impressive that he deserved consideration but a mid-table prem manager was NEVER going to get the job after Moyes,"

but I think like Rodgers his teams have been good but he's lost a bit of clarity in his approach. Do we know for sure what formation or style he'd play here? That scares me a bit. Fergie was great and Tuchel has done a great job without being dogmatic, but I'm sort of conservative with managers in the sense of wanting someone with a clear Plan A that makes sense with the squad and seems suited to modern football.

I don't really believe intangibles can be well-predicted. I'd definitely be more likely to hire someone like Bielsa who'd maybe fall out and be a disaster than someone solid whose tactics don't impress me.

No issues with another year of Rangnick, personally. Shaw and Henderson are the only players under 28 I even 50% trust in the back 7 to be starting quality going forward, and while Rangnick doesn't seem to rate Shaw, the point is that we need to rebuild with youth in that area, so someone like Potter who's developed defenders and wingbacks and Bissouma well seems like a good fit.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

No different to any manager since Fergie then.

Well - true.

But there's still a difference.

If I'm right in assuming he could be as low as 25%, he's worse off than anyone post Fergie (with the possible exception of Moyes - but I actually doubt that, given that Moyes had a hell of a lot of goodwill just from being recommended by Fergie himself).

He could potentially be starting his United career with a clear (and very vocal) majority of fans positively disliking him as a candidate. And he has nothing going for him in terms of sentimentality either (unlike both Moyes * and, not least, Ole).

* Not Moyes himself but the fact that he was recommended by Fergie.

 

[romufc]

I wouldn't rule out Poch, but I'd have Potter ahead of him and possibly Ten Hag (particularly if VDS would come with), though I don't watch Ajax in the Eredivisie enough, but they're just so damn good and he's done it with Tadic and now Haller up top and players who don't get hurt (like Neres) seem to improve, though I guess that happens at Ajax generally.

We should have hired Poch instead of Van Gaal, after he turned Southampton into an analytically top team, which I wrote here then (though I had Klopp, Rodgers and Simeone in a bracket ahead of him which is right enough, but also had Rudi Garcia, Bielsa and said De Boer was worth looking into, which is one great choice (Bielsa) one that would have been similar to Van Gaal and obviously De Boer was not worth looking into).

"Pochettino's pressing numbers this season with Southampton (most possession while employing sloppy passes = a fit team working both hard and intelligently to get the ball back) were so impressive that he deserved consideration but a mid-table prem manager was NEVER going to get the job after Moyes,"

but I think like Rodgers his teams have been good but he's lost a bit of clarity in his approach. Do we know for sure what formation or style he'd play here? That scares me a bit. Fergie was great and Tuchel has done a great job without being dogmatic, but I'm sort of conservative with managers in the sense of wanting someone with a clear Plan A that makes sense with the squad and seems suited to modern football.

I don't really believe intangibles can be well-predicted. I'd definitely be more likely to hire someone like Bielsa who'd maybe fall out and be a disaster than someone solid whose tactics don't impress me.

No issues with another year of Rangnick, personally. Shaw and Henderson are the only players under 28 I even 50% trust in the back 7 to be starting quality going forward, and while Rangnick doesn't seem to rate Shaw, the point is that we need to rebuild with youth in that area, so someone like Potter who's developed defenders and wingbacks and Bissouma well seems like a good fit.

I do get that, It is a very difficult job and its going to take more than a manager to get us back. It's really frustrating to see other managers do well and when they take this job, it almost looks like they have no clue how to manage the group of players.

Players have come and gone, we never seem to get better, challenging for big trophies seems really far off.

I look at Jose, he had principles which he lost when he came here, I can see similar happening with poch, his high pressing might get lost for results.

We seen Rangnick ditch his high press to focus on results.

I really do worry for any manager taking charge of us, even Ten Hag, some seem to think he is the one because he has his way of playing. I guarantee his first few months he will be caught out, the high line needs lot of work.

Finally, players at United seem to regress, every player in the last 8/9 years has regressed, we have not seen 1 player so far who has shown progress. We sign players that look average for some reason and I do not know why this is.

 

[b82REZ]

Well - true.

But there's still a difference.

If I'm right in assuming he could be as low as 25%, he's worse off than anyone post Fergie (with the possible exception of Moyes - but I actually doubt that, given that Moyes had a hell of a lot of goodwill just from being recommended by Fergie himself).

He could potentially be starting his United career with a clear (and very vocal) majority of fans positively disliking him as a candidate. And he has nothing going for him in terms of sentimentality either (unlike both Moyes * and, not least, Ole).

* Not Moyes himself but the fact that he was recommended by Fergie.

Well that would be incredibly hypocritical of that majority assuming they have stuck by one of our previous managers when they were already underperforming.

I've seen people over the years defend both Ole and Jose despite it being clear they were taking us nowhere, and calls for patience were often made.

To immediately get on a new managers case because they didn't want them would be disgusting. I never wanted Moyes but I gave him time before calling for his head.

Unfortunately I do think your prediction will come true because large amounts of our fanbase have decided Ten Hag is the man for the job despite only showing his credentials at Ajax. At least Poch has shown he can operate to a decent level in the league.