Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[Adnan]

It was Woodward who pushed for the consultancy role according to all the reliable outlets who report on United.

He was brought in by the football people to be a placeholder until the end of the season until a more permanent solution could be found. And the two candidates (EtH & Poch) were both in a job at the time.

Rangnick is a head coach that became a DoF at Hoffenheim and the Redbull clubs who were clubs financially doped up. Hoffenheim was a village club in Germany until billionaire, Dietmar Hopp started investing money into the club in 1990, and the club started going up the leagues. Rangnick joined them in 2006, and Hopp to this day has invested close to half a billion of his own money into the club according to reports.

And what Rangnick did at Hoffenheim/RedBull was simple (in his own words),and that was to sign players for a idea/method of play that revolved around playing a attacking brand of football with high intensity. And it seems people are mesmerised by the term 'gegenpress' when all it really is, is a form of trying to win the ball back immediately upon losing it in a coordinated fashion.

Thomas Tuchel was given his first big break in coaching under Rangnick, but Tuchel has gone on record and said that he's been inspired by the likes of Wenger and Guardiola. Klopp's mentor was the late Wolfgang Frank and both Klopp and Wolfgang Frank were inspired by Arrigo Sacchi, who in-turn was influenced by Rinus Michels and the Dutch total football approach of the 1970s. That doesn't mean Rangnick was a bad coach, for me he was a good coach, and fine as a placeholder until the end of the season. Unfortunately for him and us, we lost most of our coaching staff and Rangnick had to put his faith into two coaches from the MLS.

So when we gave him the interim role, his recent record as a interim was better than his role as a consultant. The below are thoughts of Lokomotiv Moscow fans who were happy he left after saddling the club with mediocrity.

 

[DSG]

Because we maintained the same form from October to May. That's as stable as it gets.

Ah, I see. You mean Ralf was great at ensuring the downward trajectory in performance. I was thinking you meant “stability” in the literal sense of bringing an out of balance object into a balanced state. Well, you got me there.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

And some people do not seem to realise you can suck at one job and be quite good at another.

Good at what? What's he so good at? It's pure and utter nonsense. Buying players for Schalke and Leipzig compared to United is a different universe.

Seems like ETH didn't want anything to do with him either. For good reason I'd imagine.

 

[DSG]

It was Woodward who pushed for the consultancy role according to all the reliable outlets who report on United.

He was brought in by the football people to be a placeholder until the end of the season until a more permanent solution could be found. And the two candidates (EtH & Poch) were both in a job at the time.

Rangnick is a head coach that became a DoF at Hoffenheim and the Redbull clubs who were clubs financially doped up. Hoffenheim was a village club in Germany until billionaire, Dietmar Hopp started investing money into the club in 1990, and the club started going up the leagues. Rangnick joined them in 2006, and Hopp to this day has invested close to half a billion of his own money into the club according to reports.

And what Rangnick did at Hoffenheim/RedBull was simple (in his own words),and that was to sign players for a idea/method of play that revolved around playing a attacking brand of football with high intensity. And it seems people are mesmerised by the term 'gegenpress' when all it really is, is a form of trying to win the ball back immediately upon losing it in a coordinated fashion.

Thomas Tuchel was given his first big break in coaching under Rangnick, but Tuchel has gone on record and said that he's been inspired by the likes of Wenger and Guardiola. Klopp's mentor was the late Wolfgang Frank and both Klopp and Wolfgang Frank were inspired by Arrigo Sacchi, who in-turn was influenced by Rinus Michels and the Dutch total football approach of the 1970s. That doesn't mean Rangnick was a bad coach, for me he was a good coach, and fine as a placeholder until the end of the season. Unfortunately for him and us, we lost most of our coaching staff and Rangnick had to put his faith into two coaches from the MLS.

So when we gave him the interim role, his recent record as a interim was better than his role as a consultant. The below are thoughts of Lokomotiv Moscow fans who were happy he left after saddling the club with mediocrity.

Agree with all of this, except for the part about Rangnick being a good coach. He’s pretty shit at training, tactics and managing player morale. Had no idea the Locomotiv Moscow fans wanted him gone as well, thanks for that revelation.

 

[Adnan]

Agree with all of this, except for the part about Rangnick being a good coach. He’s pretty shit at training, tactics and managing player morale. Had no idea the Locomotiv Moscow fans wanted him gone as well, thanks for that revelation.

That's fair enough. But for me he's a good coach (never elite) and all coaches need a backroom structure for support. And our backroom structure was non existent after the departures of 3 prominent first team coaches.

 

[phelans shorts]

Agree with all of this, except for the part about Rangnick being a good coach. He’s pretty shit at training, tactics and managing player morale. Had no idea the Locomotiv Moscow fans wanted him gone as well, thanks for that revelation.

I don’t think we can say how good he is at training to be fair, I think he’s somebody who has a very specific view of what he wants, which is actually something pretty good.

What he is absolutely abysmal at, however, is bringing that view to fruition, he’s clearly an awful man manager and is so wedded to his views that he’s prone to cutting off his nose to spite his face.

When a master isn’t just usurped by his protégés, but absolutely ran rings around by them, then they clearly are lacking something very important. The pragmatism (as well as not just being a dick towards your own side) shown by the likes of Klopp and Tuchel compared to Ralf is obviously a massive difference maker. Ralf was so bad on the man management side that I genuinely think the consultancy was impossible to go ahead with as it was just a totally toxic relationship.

 

[Greck]

What bad will? If Ten Hag even slightly influenced Ralf’s complete departure, it makes me respect him even more. Ralf was a complete fraud. He made a poorly functioning team even worse. Good riddance.

Good to know, I'll keep that in mind but I was referring to the part of the fanbase that didn't hate him.

 

[JPRouve]

Ah, I see. You mean Ralf was great at ensuring the downward trajectory in performance. I was thinking you meant “stability” in the literal sense of bringing an out of balance object into a balanced state. Well, you got me there.

No I mean that Carrick and then Rangnick stopped the downward trajectory, the 5 defeats in 7 games that Ole had. I'm also saying that it wasn't good enough and that we expected better than that. So you may want chill, you are not the only one with a negative opinion of the Rangnick adventure.

 

[stevoc]

If the club wanted to move on for reasons here or there they need to just say so instead of cultivating badwill around ETH this early.

I suspect the vast majority of United fans don't really care that Rangnick has left. Certainly not enough to hold it against Ten Hag for his departure anyway.

 

[Adnan]

Quoting one fan tweet doesn't make it true. Mane is finished if go search for one tweet by Liverpool fan.

Tbh with you, someone saying Mane being finished is a opinion that may or may may not be correct. But the players/managers brought in at Lokomotiv Moscow, whilst Rangnick was a consultant can be verified.

 

[Isotope]

Tbh with you, someone saying Mane being finished is a opinion that may or may may not be correct. But the players/managers brought in at Lokomotiv Moscow, whilst Rangnick was a consultant can be verified.

True. The tweet that whatever RR did there was shite, is an opinion though.

 

[DSG]

I don’t think we can say how good he is at training to be fair, I think he’s somebody who has a very specific view of what he wants, which is actually something pretty good.

What he is absolutely abysmal at, however, is bringing that view to fruition, he’s clearly an awful man manager and is so wedded to his views that he’s prone to cutting off his nose to spite his face.

When a master isn’t just usurped by his protégés, but absolutely ran rings around by them, then they clearly are lacking something very important. The pragmatism (as well as not just being a dick towards your own side) shown by the likes of Klopp and Tuchel compared to Ralf is obviously a massive difference maker. Ralf was so bad on the man management side that I genuinely think the consultancy was impossible to go ahead with as it was just a totally toxic relationship.

Agree with much of this.

With the reports that came out about only taking one day of training to implement a back 3 vs Liverpool, I would put that under the category of “training”. Pre match preparation was said to be often delayed as Ralf had to rely on a random coach at Locomotiv to send back analysis. The fact that he had substandard assistants was certainly an issue, but he was the one who picked the assistants… there is an assumption that no one else was available, but do we know that? It’s Manchester United. Is it possible that Ralf fecked up previous managerial stints enough that no one wanted to work with him?

Still don’t know why he started Dalot on the left with Salah and Trent there… Dalot might be the worst fullback in the league defensively…

 

[OpenIntrovert]

Can we close this thread? There already is a Ralf Rangnick | Austria Manager thread to share our thoughts.

 

[DSG]

No I mean that Carrick and then Rangnick stopped the downward trajectory, the 5 defeats in 7 games that Ole had. I'm also saying that it wasn't good enough and that we expected better than that. So you may want chill, you are not the only one with a negative opinion of the Rangnick adventure.

Carrick did. I take your point that Ralf arrested the slide, but we had a pretty easy run of fixtures when he joined. I’m not sure we can give him any credit as we looked worse, and had worse results, from mid February on. I agree with you, Ralf wasn’t good enough, neither was Ole. Now it’s Ten Hag’s turn and hopefully he can turn this shitshow around.

 

[Highfather_24]

Yeah he is not a good coach, but I'd much rather have Ralf Rangnick working on our transfers and recruitment, rather than any other "internal" appointments. Seems to me he was fired because he said the truth, and the Glazers didnt like it. And considering how our window is going so far...

 

[Tango80]

Yeah he is not a good coach, but I'd much rather have Ralf Rangnick working on our transfers and recruitment, rather than any other "internal" appointments. Seems to me he was fired because he said the truth, and the Glazers didnt like it. And considering how our window is going so far...

He wasn't fired. He was just never hired.

ETH obviously didn't want him, you could tell that the moment he stepped into the club.

 

[Highfather_24]

He wasn't fired. He was just never hired.

ETH obviously didn't want him, you could tell that the moment he stepped into the club.

I'm not sure that its a good sign when a manager is dictating that. I mean he had no problem working with Overmars, so I dont see why he would suddenly have a problem now.

And he was fired...from his consultancy role(which he mentioned would have been him working on our recruitment).

 

[kthanksbye]

But again, what is the output of what you're saying here? You go into more detail but it's still not clear how the manager is to proceed. He can reason that the player is not responding well because the team as a whole is dysfunctional and the current manager is incompetent. He can believe the report. He can not believe the report. Ultimately it's second hand information.

This is why managers generally come in and say there's a fresh start. They may not actually mean that because they've already analysed performances and decided who to trust. But this is their general M.O because everything else is not seen from their own viewpoint which they trust most. Managers have massive egos. So most of the useful information they already have the ability to attain.

The document isn't that useful in my opinion. That's not to say that some of the stuff wouldn't be correct but most of it isn't comfortably actionable for the manager or really advancing an analysis that he can already make.

The output here is that ETH is now equipped to handle the player accordingly, he will know how he has to manage the said player, how much pressure he can put on them, these are decisions a manager has to make AFTER they learn about the players, ETH had the chance to obtain this information before hand.

Now that I think of it, I'm guessing ETH did have a word with RR but the club does not want the players to know that, they're aware that RR won't have a lot of good things to say about them, and they'll just presume what ETH presumes about them, which would complicate the relationship.

 

[phelans shorts]

I'm not sure that its a good sign when a manager is dictating that. I mean he had no problem working with Overmars, so I dont see why he would suddenly have a problem now.

And he was fired...from his consultancy role(which he mentioned would have been him working on our recruitment).

Ralf at United was untenable after the toxic mess he played a large part in last season. He got another job and we let him walk away rather than what would have been an odd job share even without last season.

 

[roonster09]

The output here is that ETH is now equipped to handle the player accordingly, he will know how he has to manage the said player, how much pressure he can put on them, these are decisions a manager has to make AFTER they learn about the players, ETH had the chance to obtain this information before hand.

Now that I think of it, I'm guessing ETH did have a word with RR but the club does not want the players to know that, they're aware that RR won't have a lot of good things to say about them, and they'll just presume what ETH presumes about them, which would complicate the relationship.

It serves no purpose. Managers don't manage players in same way.

For SAF, Ronaldo was a golden boy who did no wrong. For Jose same Ronaldo was hard to deal with.

Managers like players are different and have different way to deal with players, likewise players respond differently to different managers.

 

[wolvored]

My take on it would be at the hiring of TH he would state what he wanted and how he was going to arrive at those decisions. When RR was mentioned, TH probably said I like to work with my people and ultimately I make the decision, before reporting to JM. My vision and RR vision how to play football is different styles, so how will it work? The board then saw the logic in this and sacked RR.
As I said it just my take on why RR was let go.

 

[Leftback99]

Doesn't quite sound like he was running everything behind the scenes as many on here thought.

 

[RORY65]

Simon Stone for the BBC has said that he and Murtough were barely on speaking terms by the end of the season and Murtough and the club, perhaps understandably, were not happy with him airing the issues in public so often and felt it was damaging the club's reputation.

 

[stevoc]

Doesn't quite sound like he was running everything behind the scenes as many on here thought.

People got carried away with their 'bigger picture' fan fictions though.

If this is true about the breakdown in Ralf and Murtagh's relationship, then it tracks with what other more observant people were saying for months. It's possible Ralf came didn't really understand he was only hired to be the manager, tried to expand his role beyond that stood on other people's toes. Was told to stick to managing the first team and then lost interest and huffed for the last 3-4 months (around the same time results fell off a cliff), then started spouting shit in every press conference throwing anyone and everyone under the bus to protect his own reputation.

It would make sense if that was why he was sacked. Disaster of an appointment, poor choice by the club and total failure on Rangnick's part at every level.

 

[Cassidy]

People got carried away with their 'bigger picture' fan fictions though.

If this is true about the breakdown in Ralf and Murtagh's relationship, then it tracks with what other more observant people were saying for months. It's possible Ralf came didn't really understand he was only hired to be the manager, tried to expand his role beyond that stood on other people's toes. Was told to stick to managing the first team and then lost interest and huffed for the last 3-4 months (around the same time results fell off a cliff), then started spouting shit in every press conference throwing anyone and everyone under the bus to protect his own reputation.

It would make sense if that was why he was sacked. Disaster of an appointment, poor choice by the club and total failure on Rangnick's part at every level.

The main issue was the Jan window and that was obvious

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Ralf obviously living rent free in many heads around here.

He's gone, draw a line under it and move on.

 

[stevoc]

The main issue was the Jan window and that was obvious

Which wasn't an issue, the squad was too big according to Ralf which is why Martial and DVB went on loan and probably would have been followed by Lingard if not for Greenwood being suspended.

 

[Cassidy]

Which wasn't an issue, the squad was too big according to Ralf which is why Martial and DVB went on loan and probably would have been followed by Lingard if not for Greenwood being suspended.

Not according to Ralf himself, he attempted to bring in a midfielder and a forward and was told no (his words)

 

[Mainoldo]

Which wasn't an issue, the squad was too big according to Ralf which is why Martial and DVB went on loan and probably would have been followed by Lingard if not for Greenwood being suspended.

Alarm bells was. Nobody wanted to stay.

Just saying.

 

[Mainoldo]

Not according to Ralf himself, he attempted to bring in a midfielder and a forward and was told no (his words)

Targets probably weren’t good enough

 

[horsechoker]

Ralf obviously living rent free in many heads around here.

He's gone, draw a line under it and move on.

Ralf's in my head and he's telling me how shit it is

 

[stevoc]

Not according to Ralf himself, he attempted to bring in a midfielder and a forward and was told no (his words)

Was this before or after we loaned out a midfielder and a forward?

Let's face it that was a load of face saving nonsense. No club spends £40-60m on players for an interim manager.

 

[stevoc]

Alarm bells was. Nobody wanted to stay.

Just saying.

Well yeah it looks like half of the squad mentally checked out post Xmas.

 

[Cassidy]

Targets probably weren’t good enough

Thats fair

 

[Cassidy]

Was this before or after we loaned out a midfielder and a forward?

Let's face it that was a load of face saving nonsense. No club spends £40-60m on players for an interim manager.

DVB not a DM, and Greenwood happened

 

[Stacks]

It was Woodward who pushed for the consultancy role according to all the reliable outlets who report on United.

He was brought in by the football people to be a placeholder until the end of the season until a more permanent solution could be found. And the two candidates (EtH & Poch) were both in a job at the time.

Rangnick is a head coach that became a DoF at Hoffenheim and the Redbull clubs who were clubs financially doped up. Hoffenheim was a village club in Germany until billionaire, Dietmar Hopp started investing money into the club in 1990, and the club started going up the leagues. Rangnick joined them in 2006, and Hopp to this day has invested close to half a billion of his own money into the club according to reports.

And what Rangnick did at Hoffenheim/RedBull was simple (in his own words),and that was to sign players for a idea/method of play that revolved around playing a attacking brand of football with high intensity. And it seems people are mesmerised by the term 'gegenpress' when all it really is, is a form of trying to win the ball back immediately upon losing it in a coordinated fashion.

Thomas Tuchel was given his first big break in coaching under Rangnick, but Tuchel has gone on record and said that he's been inspired by the likes of Wenger and Guardiola. Klopp's mentor was the late Wolfgang Frank and both Klopp and Wolfgang Frank were inspired by Arrigo Sacchi, who in-turn was influenced by Rinus Michels and the Dutch total football approach of the 1970s. That doesn't mean Rangnick was a bad coach, for me he was a good coach, and fine as a placeholder until the end of the season. Unfortunately for him and us, we lost most of our coaching staff and Rangnick had to put his faith into two coaches from the MLS.

So when we gave him the interim role, his recent record as a interim was better than his role as a consultant. The below are thoughts of Lokomotiv Moscow fans who were happy he left after saddling the club with mediocrity.

thank you for this. I was puzzled why he was being praised as some kind of Messiah and had suspicions he was a bit of a fugazi. The fact the Moscow fans dont rate him is amusing

 

[stevoc]

DVB not a DM, and Greenwood happened

Doesn't matter if he's a DM, Matic, McTominay, Fred, Pogba and DVB is enough to get through 6 months of a season and come 4th. (or at least come close)

Lingard stayed instead of going on loan after the Greenwood news.

 

[AltiUn]

Ralf obviously living rent free in many heads around here.

He's gone, draw a line under it and move on.

Apparently you can’t discuss anything or anyone previously linked with the club without them “living rent free” in someone's head. That phrase needs banning, just like it did in the di Maria, Mourinho and Lukaku threads.

 

[phelans shorts]

Doesn't matter if he's a DM, Matic, McTominay, Fred, Pogba and DVB is enough to get through 6 months of a season and come 4th. (or at least come close)

Lingard stayed instead of going on loan after the Greenwood news.

What’s incredible about the latter is that after Greenwood, Ralf STILL tried to push Lingard out of the door. The club were entirely correct in saying to Jesse “yeah it’s unfortunate your move is now falling through but needs must” then Ralf started laying into him for no reason again.

 

[Cassidy]

Doesn't matter if he's a DM, Matic, McTominay, Fred, Pogba and DVB is enough to get through 6 months of a season and come 4th. (or at least come close)

Lingard stayed instead of going on loan after the Greenwood news.

We're arguing different points here. No one is defending Rangnicks performance, simply pointed it out that the relationship with Murtough likely started to sour when Ralf was not supported in January (whether you think he should have been or not is irrelevant)
Martial wanted out, DVB wanted out, Greenwood happened, Rangnick clearly wanted a different profile of midfielder in and an attacker (given Cavani was also a sick note) it didn't happen.