Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

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C'est Moi Cantona said:
Was a pointless stint, as has been said we hired an electrician to do a plumbers job, and then got rid of him when we needed an electrician.

Many people stuck with Rangnick as manager for what he might offer afterwards, now they feel like idiots for not saying it as it was ages ago.
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Agree with this to an extent, i was excited for his role after as an interim coach, expected to sign few youngsters as apparently his scouting network is very good.

In football things change quickly, like @JPRouve said, Austrian job might have made him to take this decision.
 
Seems a very confusing situation. We don't know the ins and outs of it. Perhaps the Austria job has had some influence in all of this but the timing seems very unusual.

We have known for a few weeks (before the end of the current season) that Rangnick was going to become Austria's national manager and how it wasn't going to impact his consultancy role at United.

If he had any inkling that the club were done with him due to his poor interim role then why has it taken until now - and not straight after the season ended - to part ways?

If his conversation with Ten Hag has meant he felt he couldn't help the club move forward and they agreed then that sets a dangerous precedent. No manager should have such power and it weakens Murtough's position as he was a fan of Rangnick.

The fact his consultancy was only a few days a month anyway means we had nothing to lose even if we didn't entirely take his advice on board and we could have parted company mid-way through his consultancy contract. To do it now, before it has even begun, makes us look incompetent.
 
Good riddance— I’m not sure that ETH would’ve had any desire to keep him around after the last six months.

Ralf found a job more to his level and United have an opportunity to move on from his failed appointment and start fresh under the new coach. A win for both parties— Except for Austria of course.
 
golden_blunder said:
I would like it if you didn’t come into every thread with an anti-murtough or anti-Fletcher narrative. Woodward is gone, let them stand on their own 2 feet now and see how they do
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We are witnessing what they are doing and it seems to be a mess. It's no surprise considering that they were Woodward's men just as Lvg,Mou, Ole and Judge were
 
Matt851 said:
ETH will achieve nothing without a vaguely decent setup around him.
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Which the club is trying to build right now. He's bringing in people who he thinks will help him be successful, and it sounds like he and the new administration did not think Rangnick would be helpful, or perhaps Rangnick decided to leave (he took another job prior to departure).
 
Ragnick talked a lot of sense in interviews, and seemed to know what the club needed, but I mean....who couldn't see that? For me it was obvious this was going to happen when it was announced he had taken the Austria job. I don't think he would have taken that if he knew he'd be at United for at least 2 years. Who knows why this has happened? We will likely never find out the real reason but part of me thinks ETH coming in probably felt it wasn't necessary. Perhaps he feels he can handle it without that middle man? Maybe he felt Ragnick would be stepping on his toes?
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Is it not possible he took that because he knew he wasn't been listened to, and so knew he wasn't going to be given a meaningful role post manager?

I don't know the answer, but it seems some are happy for us to spit out Rangnick, and move on as if he was the problem.
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i think so, his wings were clipped early on and likely knew he wasnt being taken seriously
 
DanielofLeyland said:
Seems a very confusing situation. We don't know the ins and outs of it. Perhaps the Austria job has had some influence in all of this but the timing seems very unusual.

We have known for a few weeks (before the end of the current season) that Rangnick was going to become Austria's national manager and how it wasn't going to impact his consultancy role at United.

If he had any inkling that the club were done with him due to his poor interim role then why has it taken until now - and not straight after the season ended - to part ways?

If his conversation with Ten Hag has meant he felt he couldn't help the club move forward and they agreed then that sets a dangerous precedent. No manager should have such power and it weakens Murtough's position as he was a fan of Rangnick.

The fact his consultancy was only a few days a month anyway means we had nothing to lose even if we didn't entirely take his advice on board and we could have parted company mid-way through his consultancy contract. To do it now, before it has even begun, makes us look incompetent.
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Maybe Rangnick changed his mind or made his mind up this week?
 
DanielofLeyland said:
Seems a very confusing situation. We don't know the ins and outs of it. Perhaps the Austria job has had some influence in all of this but the timing seems very unusual.

We have known for a few weeks (before the end of the current season) that Rangnick was going to become Austria's national manager and how it wasn't going to impact his consultancy role at United.

If he had any inkling that the club were done with him due to his poor interim role then why has it taken until now - and not straight after the season ended - to part ways?

If his conversation with Ten Hag has meant he felt he couldn't help the club move forward and they agreed then that sets a dangerous precedent. No manager should have such power and it weakens Murtough's position as he was a fan of Rangnick.

The fact his consultancy was only a few days a month anyway means we had nothing to lose even if we didn't entirely take his advice on board and we could have parted company mid-way through his consultancy contract. To do it now, before it has even begun, makes us look incompetent.
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Absolutely, it shows a sense of indecision at the club that I'm not sure bodes well long term. I just hope we end up signing someone with greater responsibility and credibility in charge of the strategy when it comes to recruitment instead of continuing with just the remaining club tenured staff being given more power than ever coming off a disaster season.
 
TheReligion said:
@Adnan and @Tom Van Persie

Give me something that isn’t negative about this please?!

Concerned he’s butted heads with the club and they aren’t fully committed to the changes he’s very publicly sought to implement.
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There's nothing negative or positive to take from this imo. Rangnick was brought in to steer the ship for the remainder of the season from a coaching perspective, and unfortunately it hasn't gone well for him and the club in that regard.

I personally don't believe the club needs someone to consult them on something that's obvious. And I've consistently said for several years now, that we need to empower our football departments by having a prominent figurehead who oversees the entire football operation throughout the club. And that's something we haven't done, and we instead allow the manager to come in and strategize recruitment utilising his own recruitment staff, rather than the big group of people that already exist at the club. And that's the only way it's possible to align and streamline the operation on the football side of the club, which is proven to yield results.

If a manager is appointed and sees himself as the figurehead on the football side of the club and works independently from the existing football departments already at the club, then I have no sympathy for someone with that mindset. But if we hire someone who sees himself as the head coach and wants to work with the existing football structure at the club, then I have a lot of time for that person. Because that person (head coach) has decided to make use of the big group of people already working on the recruitment side of the club, who are there to aid the head coach to succeed in his role as the head coach. So all you need now is a competent person from within the football departments to become the point of contact for the head coach who we call the football director.

Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool did exactly what I've described above, and he saw himself as the head coach and not the manager. And hence he appointed the much ridiculed Michael Edwards as the Sporting director, and a football department led by Edwards which was widely ridiculed under Brendan Rodgers began to excel under Jurgen Klopp. And the difference was that Klopp came in and embraced the existing football structure at the club and Rodgers didn't. All our post Fergie managers have been operating like Brendan Rodgers in a board/manager led structure, with the already existing football structure becoming a after thought.

The job isn't difficult if one empowers the majority rather than the minority. And the majority is a DoF/head coach model which has the potential to align the whole process on the football side of the club. And it's a proven winning formula which is utilised by the most successful clubs in the game. And i'm looking forward to seeing how things develop for us in that regard, now that we have a head coach. Rangnick staying or going doesn't affect my thinking.
 
DanielofLeyland said:
The fact his consultancy was only a few days a month anyway means we had nothing to lose even if we didn't entirely take his advice on board and we could have parted company mid-way through his consultancy contract. To do it now, before it has even begun, makes us look incompetent.
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I say just the opposite. I don’t think anyone initially expected Ralf to fail so miserably as a manager (even in the interim). It would be incompetent of us to give our worst ever manager a job upstairs, or to burden our next manager with this guy as a consultant. Over the years, we’ve done the same thing by extending the contracts of players who were clearly undeserving and already paid too much. Nothing incompetent about holding high standards, realizing your mistake, and swiftly moving on in a new direction.
 
roonster09 said:
Agree with this to an extent, i was excited for his role after as an interim coach, expected to sign few youngsters as apparently his scouting network is very good.

In football things change quickly, like @JPRouve said, Austrian job might have made him to take this decision.
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The Austrain job vs a meaningful job at finally changing United for the better, an easy choice to stay imo.

The Austrain job vs a token effort of a job where no one really cares what he thinks, to a someone like Rangnick, reckon he's have left even it was San Marino that wanted him.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
The Austrain job vs a meaningful job at finally changing United for the better, an easy choice to stay imo.

The Austrain job vs a token effort of a job where no one really cares what he thinks, to a someone like Rangnick, reckon he's have left even it was San Marino that wanted him.
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Not if you want to coach. Keep in mind that Rangnick stepped away from coaching due to health issues, an international job could be the best of both world.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
The Austrain job vs a meaningful job at finally changing United for the better, an easy choice to stay imo.

The Austrain job vs a token effort of a job where no one really cares what he thinks, to a someone like Rangnick, reckon he's have left even it was San Marino that wanted him.
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It wasn't a meaningful job, it was consultant role and looks like it was 6 days a month he works for ManUtd, unless he thought he will be getting better role at ManUtd. Hard to see that he would have to replace the guy who hired him.

If the argument is we should have hired him as DoF, yes valid point but that was before Murtough was promoted to hear football operations.
 
Tony247 said:
Why was he appointed in first place? This fiasco confirms that the people running the club have no clue whatsoever what they want, where they are taking the club.

Good luck to ETH.
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The owners have no clue whatsoever.

But they think they know best. The only advice they want is confirmation of what they already think.

They think if they get the right coach it won’t matter that the rest of the club is a shambles, they think a club our size will start winning again sooner or later while they continue to pay down the huge debt they borrowed against the value of the club.

They will come out of it very nicely, leaving an out-dated shell of a football club with sporting integrity in tatters and earning power a fraction of what it could be if we at least played some competitive football.
 
roonster09 said:
It wasn't a meaningful job, it was consultant role and looks like it was 6 days a month he works for ManUtd, unless he thought he will be getting better role at ManUtd. Hard to see that he would have to replace the guy who hired him.

If the argument is we should have hired him as DoF, yes valid point but that was before Murtough was promoted to hear football operations.
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I don't know maybe that is my arguement, I'm a rational sort of chap, but I'm just really annoyed that I invested so much into this for what Rangnick might offer afterwards, and now he's off.
 
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Beans said:
Because his work as DOF has brought through Top players in football like Mane, discovering gems at the lower level, something we've not done since we bought a young Ronaldo?

The 6 days thing didn't come out until a few weeks ago.
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We’ve made it well known we don’t need gems from the lower league as the first team isn’t going to be designed to develop them. We are not that level of club.

Ronaldo was a teenage wonder kid We’ve brought a few of those and will continue to do so once we are stable again
 
Buster15 said:
He had zero impact because no one was either prepared to listen or to action anything he said.
Takes 2 to tango.
Far too intelligent for United.
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Im continiously impressed with the knowledge the average fan has of football administration employees across european leagues.
 
Mainoldo said:
We’ve made it well known we don’t need gems from the lower league as the first team isn’t going to be designed to develop them. We are not that level of club.

Ronaldo was a teenage wonder kid We’ve brought a few of those and will continue to do so once we are stable again
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I realize that we're a level above Salzburg, but everyone has to make a step up at some point. If you were looking for a DOF (Edit: or someone to consult in that area) that's ready to step up to the top level, there are few with better track records than Rangnick. Surely he's had more success than our current DOF, it's not like we went out and hired someone obviously better and more qualified.

Maybe ETH wants to do it all himself, like SAF used to.

If Rangnick could recognize Mane's quality at Metz surely he could have seen it at Salzburg or Southampton.
 
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Garethw said:
It was all about job security for RR. He had a contract over in Russia until 2024 and he didn’t want to give that up for a six month stint with us. The two year consultancy aspect was factored into the negotiations as we had no intention of keeping him on as manager until 2024.

United never wanted him as a consultant. That much is obvious.
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Penna said:
Rangnick probably didn't want to move for a 6-month job, hence the follow-on consultancy role. However, he has another permanent job now, so he doesn't need to stay.

He'll have done his handover to Ten Hag. The important information has been passed on.
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Marcus said:
I don't see the issue. Ralf wanted assurance of a job beyond 6 months. The consultancy thing was thrown in to persuade him to give his old job. Now that he has the Austria gig and we have ETH. No problems mutually ending this.
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Agree with all of the above and believe this consultancy thing is being completely overblown by a fair few posters. According to reports at the time, it was Rangnick that requested the consultancy role as a prerequisite of taking the interim job, possibly due to the fact that he was leaving a long contract in his previous job. The consultancy thing always seemed a little odd, especially as Ralf himself couldn't ever provide any info on what it would entail and it seems not to have been discussed thoroughly so it doesn't appear now that the club were too fussed about it in the first place.

I'm really not sure why anyone is up in arms over the decision not to go ahead with it or sees it as a great failing of the club. Things change over time and after seeing Ralf's work, how badly is managerial stint went, and listening to his opinions over the past 6 months, the club could well have decided he wasn't a good fit or that it wouldn't add a huge amount of value. Even then it was only an extremely limited part-time role. This along with the fact that it's been ditched after he got himself a new job really does smack of the job security angle.

The club went about hiring an interim manager to close out the season, hopefully make top 4, while we appointed a full-time manager for next season. The interim came in and failed to achieve top 4 but we've hopefully got our man in EtH so I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.
 
Beans said:
I realize that we're a level above Salzburg, but everyone has to make a step up at some point. If you were looking for a DOF that's ready to step up to the top level, there are few with better track records than Rangnick. Surely he's had more success than our current DOF, it's not like we went out and hired someone obviously better and more qualified.

Maybe ETH wants to do it all himself, like SAF used to.

If Rangnick could recognize Mane's quality at Metz surely he could have seen it at Salzburg or Southampton.
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Ralf was never hired to be a DOF at United.
 
So to briefly sum up, we hired a guy with no pedigree at this level, coming off one year of management in ten, to go with another two years of consultancy, suggested by Ralf, on terms that no one had thought to discuss, much less pin down beforehand,. He was brought in to get top 4, which he didn't, to implement a pressing style, which he managed for half an hour, and to assess the squad for the next guy, except the next guy doesn't seem arsed, considering Ralf has spent most of the last couple of months in press conferences - when he wasn't negotiating a move to another team - talking about how he hadn't spoken to him yet but hoped to soon, if ETH wanted to hear his views.
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I'm not a Rangnick fan, but the way ETH avoided any talk about him and now this, is not good. His main competitor in the eredivisie was coach Roger Schmidt from PSV, who couldn't even compete in the Bundesliga. The board really think ETH is the man, despite he never even worked in any big league. I get it, if you get a guy like Tuchel, you probably might get rid of the consultant it seems pointless, but apart from that, a guy like ETH might at least listen. Then you hear all this talk of former players of him getting signed, which top coach does this? Then the van de Beek talk. He got ignored on the pitch by the team, hows that supposed to work out.
 
To be honest, I've long stopped caring about Rangnick or what his role was supposed to be here.

Complete misfit. I'm actually far more enthusiastic about what McClaren has to offer us in whatever he is supposed to be doing.
 
Withnail said:
Ralf was never hired to be a DOF at United.
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That's true. But his consultancy was essentially in that area, excuse me if my phrasing was confusing. His consultancy was in the area of that work, as opposed to the coaching side. He was never a top coach, he's a top DOF (or advisor in that area).
 
Why are we such a basket case? When we appointed Rangnick, I wasn’t hoping for change in style or results in performance, I was more interested about his consultancy role. I was hoping that we are finally going to a get football people help out the manager. I didn’t like it when he took on the Austria job, and now this.
 
Kag said:
We really are a joke.

We brought in a man famed for his ability to pull things together behind the scenes and have discontinued his longer term role on the basis that he failed at something completely separate to this.

I don’t actually care that he’s gone, in truth, but the level of ineptitude from the top is just breathtaking.
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He didn't have a longer term role. The consultant thing was just for job security. He didn't want to change from his 3 year deal to an 8 month one.

We got the right man for the wrong job.
They actually hired Ralf as the manager. It's that simple.

This "he'll move upstairs" thing was just a fan narrative.

If the intention was to actually move him upstairs he'd have started immediately and recommended us a better manager than himself. Or, the role that was lined up for him would have been far more specific than "part time consultant".
 
redIndianDevil said:
Why are we such a basket case? When we appointed Rangnick, I wasn’t hoping for change in style or results in performance, I was more interested about his consultancy role. I was hoping that we are finally going to a get football people help out the manager. I didn’t like it when he took on the Austria job, and now this.
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I suspect the recommended changes were so radical they couldn't swallow it. Might have told them all to fire themselves for incompetence.
 
his role as interim has obviously gone tits up, so it's hardly a surprise..

ETH cleaning house
 
Beans said:
That's true. But his consultancy was essentially in that area, excuse me if my phrasing was confusing. His consultancy was in the area of that work, as opposed to the coaching side. He was never a top coach, he's a top DOF (or advisor in that area).
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The consultancy thing was not why he was hired. We didn't set out to hire a consultant. It appears to have been tacked on during negotiations as a sweetener to get him in as interim.

This old tweet was posted earlier:

 
The "consultancy as a sweetener" for negotiations doesn't make sense to me. You know it'll get reported everywhere and questions will be asked about it (what would he consult about etc).

And if the guy leaves without fulfilling the consultancy role (which is the case now) it'll only look more stupid on Utd's part.
 
We could attract nearly any Director of Football or whatever role we want filling on an actual full time basis if we really wanted to.

Such a nothing story that Ralf won't be filling this 'consultant' role. He's just one man in football that's proved here that he's far from the genius many seem to think.
 
Surplus to requirements now that ETH is calling the shots? Will be interesting to see who comes into our football structure now
 
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