Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

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glazed said:
How should I know? I'm not an elite high press football coach. I'm describing the process I think is happening and will happen but we're on the outside so we can't know the detail until we see what ETH puts on the pitch over the course of next season. But I think it is the right process. We can well imagine that a player like DdG lacks the pressing skills to be retained for long but it's what ETH thinks that matters, not what I think.
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I'm just trying to test the logic.
Because you seem to accept that Rangnick is such an elite high pressing coach - so just deducing from what the team produced under him, football with no comprehensive high pressing - that would mean that basically all of the players just couldn't do what he would have envisioned.
If the squad, or a good part of it, suddenly ends up pressing under Ten Hag next season, how will you save your argument?
That all the players that happened to leave (out of contract etc) just happened to be the ones discarded as unsuitable by Rangnick? Or maybe, just maybe, Rangnick simply failed to coach and manage the team effectively in his short time and under the circumstances, and that is the whole story.

I just don't understand where the necessity to rate Rangnick that highly comes from. He has done some impressive things in his career, but he's never been a top end manager and just wasn't really up to this job, as I told you guys all along. Circumstances were difficult too, no doubt. There's no secret plot behind it.
 
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Hansi Fick said:
I'm just trying to test the logic.
Because you seem to accept that Rangnick is such an elite high pressing coach - so just deducing from what the team produced under him, football with no comprehensive high pressing - that would mean that basically all of the players just couldn't do what he would have envisioned.
If the squad, or a good part of it, suddenly ends up pressing under Ten Hag next season, how will you save your argument?
That all the players that happened to leave (out of contract etc) just happened to be the ones discarded as unsuitable by Rangnick? Or maybe, just maybe, Rangnick simply failed to coach and manage the team effectively in his short time and under the circumstances, and that is whole story.
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Or that the players didn't put in an effort for a temporary coach? That the players didn't have the fitness and a pre-season under a new manager will affect it? That they realise this season wasn't good enough and are more prepared to put in more effort and work for their starting position? There are lots of reasons, I tend to find the truth though lies somewhere in between, RR did want that style but the players didn't want to make the effort (not that they couldn't) and RR then went back to a style that suited them but by that point it already proved the players had the power, season was bad already combined with in house fighting the effort levels went down as seen on the pitch.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Or that the players didn't put in an effort for a temporary coach? That the players didn't have the fitness and a pre-season under a new manager will affect it? That they realise this season wasn't good enough and are more prepared to put in more effort and work for their starting position? There are lots of reasons, I tend to find the truth though lies somewhere in between, RR did want that style but the players didn't want to make the effort (not that they couldn't) and RR then went back to a style that suited them but by that point it already proved the players had the power, season was bad already combined with in house fighting the effort levels went down as seen on the pitch.
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Yes, these are the circumstances.
Circumstances that any interim manager has to deal with. Interim managers never come into a happy, functioning team, they never have the power of authority over the players' future to wield, they never have time nor transfers to implement their style. That's the job.
 
Hansi Fick said:
I'm just trying to test the logic.
Because you seem to accept that Rangnick is such an elite high pressing coach - so just deducing from what the team produced under him, football with no comprehensive high pressing - that would mean that basically all of the players just couldn't do what he would have envisioned.
If the squad, or a good part of it, suddenly ends up pressing under Ten Hag next season, how will you save your argument?
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Well that's easy. Rangnick is not an elite high pressing coach but ETH is. Ralf's job is to identify the problems, not to solve them. And we won't have the same squad next season so your hypothetical question is rather academic.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Yes, these are the circumstances.
Circumstances that any interim manager has to deal with. Interim managers never come into a happy, functioning team, they never have the power of authority over the players' future to wield, they never have time nor transfers to implement their style. That's the job.
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100% and I don't think Ralf is the greatest coach but I think the atmosphere is also worse here than most interim managers face, it is fairly well accepted the players didn't want Solskjaer to go whereas (Like when Solskjaer arrived as Interim) most players were pleased to see the back of the prior manager.
 
glazed said:
Well that's easy. Rangnick is not an elite high pressing coach but ETH is. Ralf's job is to identify the problems, not to solve them. And we won't have the same squad next season so your hypothetical question is rather academic.
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Well, fair enough.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
100% and I don't think Ralf is the greatest coach but I think the atmosphere is also worse here than most interim managers face, it is fairly well accepted the players didn't want Solskjaer to go whereas (Like when Solskjaer arrived as Interim) most players were pleased to see the back of the prior manager.
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Possible (though the players should have been under no illusions where their perfomances and results would end up for Ole..).
Or maybe Carrick grabbed most of the new manager bounce. The thing is though, Rangnick, for all his qualities, tends to display a bland, obnoxious, lecturing personality. Which is why at the very least he needs some great assistants, which he clearly couldn't hire. All in all the interim spell went bad on several levels.

But it's not a big deal, it's just an interim spell. It's not that important how well interim spells go. Missing out on CL is the worst consequence of it, but then the team wasn't on CL spots when Solksjaer was sacked, reaching top four was always going to be a fight, not a sure thing.
The important thing is you hired an awesome manager for the future.
 
horsechoker said:
This, he's gone from football expert to not even being able to win a game on football manager.

Even Ole seems to be held in higher regard
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Solskjaer's reputation took a bettering by the time he was sacked to be fair.

And yeah they aren't holding back on Ralf now either it seems but that happens with virtually every manager who presides over a disastrous run of form at a top club.
 
horsechoker said:
This, he's gone from football expert to not even being able to win a game on football manager.

Even Ole seems to be held in higher regard
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But didn't he invent something like taking the ball away from the opponents early and try to score?

Maybe Ralf was my sixth grade teacher as I remember him telling me the same.
 
United are and did make it difficult for themselves. No need for a consultant role. More chefs more complicate.

Imagine Sir Alex have a consultant guy over him. Always come with players suggestions.

Sir Alex was a master chef. I trush a master chef in a cuisine.

And same with Ten Hag. I trust in him more than the consultant guy. I trust the guy who is and will work closest to the ingredients. In football world i trust the guy who work closest to the players. He knows most theirs and the team weakness. And what i need to strenght.
I trust the head coach and master chef football skills, experience, understanding and knowlegde.

You have a chief scous and director of football in the organisation. Another football guy that make decision too. For me its the head coach and master chef who shall have the last words on which and where they shall buy the ingredients and players from.

Again. Mr.Mourtough and United are just making it more complicated. Lesser ego and lesser complication is more ideal.
And like i said Ten Hag shall have the last words on transfer. It mean Ragnick shall accept his recommendations will be not accept from the head coach.
Consultant role/guy = adviser, not footbal decision maker in a football club. Things have to be clear. To avoid arguing and conflict later.

But him as interim coach. I think even Darren Fletcher would do a better job.

Matic and Mata are on theirs last season. I dont find a good reason to use them. When the top 4 is out of reach. Should give some of the youngster first team match experience. As earlier they are get use to the tempo and intensity of premier league. As better is for theirs development. Every thing need time, practise and get use to it.
 
Worst coach in the history of the game

Has some top notch PR people who feed bs about him to the pres etc I
 
glazed said:
Well that's easy. Rangnick is not an elite high pressing coach but ETH is. Ralf's job is to identify the problems, not to solve them. And we won't have the same squad next season so your hypothetical question is rather academic.
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What are you talking about?! Ralf’s job is VERY CLEAR, interim manager to finish in top 4. The board sacked Ole because they somehow felt he couldn’t. You are now distorting the reality to say his job is not to solve the problems. It is extremely nonsensical.
 
With all due respect, Rangnick was semi-retired when he took over Ole and was almost universally unknown save for that time he delivered Schalke 04 to UCL Semifinals in 2011. I didn't expect much from start.

Putting aside expectations, excellence should still be the only result expected from a United coach... And with that in mind, I think he could have done much more with what he had honestly. Even if United is full of overrated players, he could still lead and command, make players follow his discipline, make a game towards something, set the basis for a solid group backbone... None of that was achieved, to the contrary, the group's more divided than ever, the game and results have been awful and nobody wants to take ownership.

I think ETH needs to enter ASAP and immediately decide what's OK and what's not. I don't know what's gonna happen to Rangnick but he missed his chance with the results he provided.
 
city-puma said:
What are you talking about?! Ralf’s job is VERY CLEAR, interim manager to finish in top 4.
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No it isn't. If they wanted to finish top four they would have kept Carrick in place. Putting in a high press coach with no high press team was very unlikely to lead to a top four finish and they must have known that when they appointed him. It was part of a long term strategy.
 
glazed said:
No it isn't. If they wanted to finish top four they would have kept Carrick in place. Putting in a high press coach with no high press team was very unlikely to lead to a top four finish and they must have known that when they appointed him. It was part of a long term strategy.
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We couldn’t have kept Carrick because it was he himself who said he was leaving, and Ralf stated himself that he was brought in to get top 4.
 
glazed said:
No it isn't. If they wanted to finish top four they would have kept Carrick in place. Putting in a high press coach with no high press team was very unlikely to lead to a top four finish and they must have known that when they appointed him. It was part of a long term strategy.
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So why did the team stop trying to press high in games? If the plan was for Rangnick to implement a high pressing style, why wasn't it implemented?

Either Ralf abandoned it himself because he wasn't able to coach it into this squad which would lean towards it not being part of the clubs plans or the players couldn't/wouldn't adapt to the pressing style. In either case Ralf surely would have held his hands up and informed the board that the very thing they brought him in to do isn't possible.

Personally I lean towards it just being a bad appointment on the clubs part as opposed to some long term plan to implement a new style mid season.
 
I don't rate what he has done, no. Regardless of the consultancy if it happens, he was still brought in to manage the team til the end of the season and he doesn't get a free pass on that for slating the team. I'm sure the players are part of the problem, but I also tend to believe the stories that the coaches he brought in aren't good enough and that he's just not doing a good enough job in his role.
 
glazed said:
No it isn't. If they wanted to finish top four they would have kept Carrick in place. Putting in a high press coach with no high press team was very unlikely to lead to a top four finish and they must have known that when they appointed him. It was part of a long term strategy.
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Omg. You haven’t followed what’s happened, have you? At the beginning, he said by himself that’s the reason they sacked Ole and hired him. You are bringing out the illusion from your imagination.
 
There was no hope for him this season. Successfully playing in his style probably needs large amounts of practice, assuming all we've heard about his system is correct. We were in the middle of the season with a squad seriously under-coached for about 5 years. I was shocked at that first 30 mins but we haven't seen it since. Maybe they're not fit enough for it
 
Longshanks said:
Ironic considering the interim managers job is to polish turds, he isnt the permanent manager nor is he the director of football, he isnt overseeing some great overhaul of the playing staff. His job was not to flush the turds as you so eloquently put it, it was quite literally to polish the turds, and there may be some truth in the fact that you can't polish a turd, but you can avoid mashing them into a great big shit sandwich and then serving it up with the excuse that some of these turds needs flushing and there is nothing more I can do.
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Not sure you’ve understood the meaning of ‘trying to polish a turd’. Give it a go and the metaphor will get clearer.
 
He’s been a complete and utter failure. Thank feck we only have one more match to endure.
 
Must admit I thought it was bad under Ole - and it was - but this guy has been terrible.

Frankly I think those posturing for him are being shown up as football hipsters and need to realise the type of abstracts concepts that Ragnick espouses don't always work in reality..

I'm sure he knows his stuff but in terms of implementing it, he knows zilch.
 
glazed said:
Well that's easy. Rangnick is not an elite high pressing coach but ETH is. Ralf's job is to identify the problems, not to solve them. And we won't have the same squad next season so your hypothetical question is rather academic.
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oh come on! why do some people keep believe in this nonsense? you really think the glazers told rangnick "go expose our players so we can bin our 600m worth investment in the past 6 years" as they handed him key to OT?
 
stevoc said:
So why did the team stop trying to press high in games? If the plan was for Rangnick to implement a high pressing style, why wasn't it implemented?
Either Ralf abandoned it himself because he wasn't able to coach it into this squad which would lean towards it not being part of the clubs plans or the players couldn't/wouldn't adapt to the pressing style. In either case Ralf surely would have held his hands up and informed the board that the very thing they brought him in to do isn't possible.
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Well yes you've answered your own question.

city-puma said:
Omg. You haven’t followed what’s happened, have you? At the beginning, he said by himself that’s the reason they sacked Ole and hired him. You are bringing out the illusion from your imagination.
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I've been following it very closely thanks. It's very clear they've committed to a high press restructuring in the knowledge that it won't be quick or easy. If you've missed that you've not been paying attention.

haru krentz said:
oh come on! why do some people keep believe in this nonsense? you really think the glazers told rangnick "go expose our players so we can bin our 600m worth investment in the past 6 years" as they handed him key to OT?
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No the Glazers said we need to be a top four team on a regular basis and literally everyone told them this is the only way of achieving that no matter how much they chose to misspend on ropey transfers.
 
glazed said:
No the Glazers said we need to be a top four team on a regular basis and literally everyone told them this is the only way of achieving that no matter how much they chose to misspend on ropey transfers.
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who are these "literally everyone"??
 
glazed said:
Well yes you've answered your own question.
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Well you don't seem willing to answer it anyway.

Ok I'll try again, in this scenario where Rangnick agreed to take over a team specifically to implement a high pressing style mid-season for some reason but obviously failed in this remit within what 2-3 weeks.

Wouldn't he have held his hands up and told the board he can't do what they're asking him to do and they should try something/someone else?

Or maybe, just maybe he wasn't brought into implement a style change mid-season at all.
 
stevoc said:
Well you don't seem willing to answer it anyway.

Ok I'll try again, in this scenario where Rangnick agreed to take over a team specifically to implement a high pressing style mid-season for some reason but obviously failed in this remit within what 2-3 weeks.

Wouldn't he have held his hands up and told the board he can't do what they're asking him to do and they should try something/someone else?
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It was obvious that he couldn't make it work with those players and as an interim manager. At that point we wrote off the season. Had we sacked him we would have looked like clowns who gave in to player power and ETH wouldn't have come. Showing that we were serious about reform was and is the priority.
 
Vidyoyo said:
Must admit I thought it was bad under Ole - and it was - but this guy has been terrible.

Frankly I think those posturing for him are being shown up as football hipsters and need to realise the type of abstracts concepts that Rangnick espouses don't always work in reality..

I'm sure he knows his stuff but in terms of implementing it, he knows zilch.
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Eh? What abstract concepts? I think he has been brutally clear in everything he has spoken about when analysing our failures and the things we should be doing. The fact that he has failed utterly in getting the players to execute that doesn't alter what he's talked about.
 
Still ill said:
Eh? What abstract concepts? I think he has been brutally clear in everything he has spoken about when analysing our failures and the things we should be doing. The fact that he has failed utterly in getting the players to execute that doesn't alter what he's talked about.
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Dunno, I'd had like 3 beers when I posted that. God knows what I was on about.
 
RR was brougth in by Murtough in my estimate to do necessary for United..to wake the club the feck up and face the cold bare facts. And this playing squad has failed him as every other manger since Fergie. When Klopp took over at Liverpool he did not chance things in an instant. Why? Because the playing squad was nowhere near good enough to do what he wanted.

My opinion is that we have a dreadful squad of players and most of them not nearly good enough to play for United. If we are honest how many of our players would be in any XI of the PL or CL? I think none and I think we would struggle to have a player in a 18 man squad. That would have been unthinkable in the past but it´s the cold hard truth.

We are now seeing more chances at the football club since the Glazers took over and we made a bold modern choice for a new manager. We are seeing the youth structure getting stronger and we are facing perhaps the biggest player turnover this club has seen this summer. It´s seems to me that we are finally going in the right direction.

Perhaps after next season we will look back and see the results of those hard lessons learnt this season. But the most important lesson was that the vast majority of the players showed they are not good enough both playing wise and mentally to be future United players.

Whom out of this playing squad would you say has a United future: De Gea, Varane, Shaw?, Bruno, Hannibal, Ronaldo(short due to age), Sancho,DVB? Lindelof?Fred? McTominay? Rashford?Maguire?...

We are proably looking at these leaving this window or in the coming windows:
Grant, Henderson, Bailly, Jones,Telles,Wan Bissaka, Williams, Tuanzebe, Pogba, Mata, Lingard, Pereira, Matic,Martial, Cavani, Greenwood.

These outgoings will not all happen this summer but we will see a large part of them gone. And let the facts sink in for a while..we have spent the most of all clubs per transfers for the last 9 years...and we are paying the highest wage packet in football...and then to blame RR for not getting this group to play better when it´s clear to see that many of them do not have the mentality or professional pride to play for a club like United. Lazy primadonnas that can not be botherd to do the basic things like run your socks of, give your all in duels and never give in. This playing squad has failed to deliver for a long time and now it seems that they have been called out. I´m convinced that Ten Hag is the right choice for us and I applaud Murtough and Arnold for showing some balls in hiring him and changing the structure at the club. Glory Glory Man Utd.
 
glazed said:
Well that's easy. Rangnick is not an elite high pressing coach but ETH is. Ralf's job is to identify the problems, not to solve them. And we won't have the same squad next season so your hypothetical question is rather academic.
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That was always my interpretation too. I get the impression his honest feedback hasn't warmed him to the powers that be at the club though, but maybe that's just me look at things from the outside in.
 
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