Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

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MvG said:
I cited a combination of three independent factors to answer your question and you proceed to highlight only one.

But to answer your question, no Ole scratched and scraped for every excuse he could find for the players throughout his tenure. They exposed themselves with their performances, as I said before.
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Yeah but 2 of those 3 were true under Ole as well. Results and performances were shit under Solskjaer towards the end and most agree the players downed tools in some of those games also.

So that only leaves Ralfs comments being the difference, yes?

I'm just looking to see if we can get some consensus on what exactly people mean when they say Ralf is exposing the players. It's looking like it's just his press conferences then.
 
DJ_21 said:
Ralf rangnick reckons we’re signing about 6-8 players in the summer. Can’t see it myself we will probably sign about 3/4 tops. Have we ever signed 6 players in 1 window?
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In the summer of 2014 when we appointed LVG we signed more than 6! We got in Di Maria, Falcao, Herrera, Shaw, Blind, Rojo and Milinkovic-Savic. We then signed Victor Valdes a few months later too.

This was at a time when we didn't qualify for the CL while also appointing a new manager. Similar situation to us now and plus as we saved some of our budget by not spending in January, that is probably an additional signing there to make in the summer. While we need to sign at least around 8-10 players, it's probably unrealistic to get all 8 in 1 window and if you asked me I think we will sign around 5-6 players minimum. We normally sign 3-4 players per window and with this being a massive rebuild, we need to sign a few more than we usually do!

Will probably get a centre back, x2 midfielders, winger and a striker minimum. But let's be honest, we need another centre back on top, along with a left back, right back, a versatile striker who can play on the wing and probably a goalkeeper who can challenge DDG for a spot especially if Henderson leaves. That is 10 signings right there!

But as mentioned, I doubt we will get all of them in 1 window and will most likely fill any gaps with the youth players like Mejbri, Garnacho etc and then continue to strengthen during the winter and the following summer transfer window.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah but 2 of those 3 were true under Ole as well. Results and performances were shit under Solskjaer towards the end and most agree the players downed tools in some of those games also.

So that only leaves Ralfs comments being the difference, yes?

I'm just looking to see if we can get some consensus on what exactly people mean when they say Ralf is exposing the players. It's looking like it's just his press conferences then.
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Ralf was brought in to consult which means he will still have a say after his interim role. If that context is lost on you I don’t know what else to say.
 
stevoc said:
I mean I've read some bullshit in this thread on both sides of the argument but the idea that Interim managers aren't brought in to steady the ship and salvage a season has to be right up there. If they're not brought in for that reason you'd have to wonder what the point of sacking your manager and hiring an Interim manager would even be, might as well just keep the manager you have.
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Didn't you know that interim managers are brought in to expose the deepest and darkest secrets at board and dressing room level and focus on the long term at the expense of the short term. Results don't matter for interim managers what's more important is what they say in press conferences and post match defeats.

He's done a cracking job I'd say.
 
MvG said:
Ralf was brought in to consult which means he will still have a say after his interim role. If that context is lost on you I don’t know what else to say.
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I don’t buy this excuse that he’s - here to consult, the interim role is an extra, so he gets a pass - to be honest. To me the fact is that he not for a second won the dressingroom over with his ideas, that was obvious to see from day one.

And now this all unfolded to one of the worst seasons in our history and the plan is to keep him around for two years to do what exactly? Reminding the players of the bad taste in their mouth about everything ? I think he can only get in the way of ETH at this point.

No, for me it absolutely should have been a more experienced manager that should have come in for half a year, to just steady the ship. Chelsea did this many times with guys like Guus Hiddink. (I know they aren’t easy to come by, but come on.)

What happened now is a straight up disaster that will a have huge effect on the mountain we have to climb next season.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
The performances and results have been utter shit under him, but they were utter shit before he arrived. He hasn't succeeded in turning our season around, but I have no idea whether that is because he's a terrible coach, or whether this group of players is unmanagable.

What I do know is that the team could be coached by Kermit the frog and it wouldn't be an excuse for the type of performances we've seen this season.
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Not having a go but honestly I hate this argument - the whole point of sacking a manager is to get improved results, not replicate what has already gone before.

A manager is sacked because results are going very, very badly - which they were under Ole. All Ralf has done is prolong this rather than sort it out to any extent.

If you’re comparing Ole to Ralf it makes no sense to do it based on Ole’s sacking form, but the two and half years prior to that.

We’ve had three interims since Sir Alex and none of them have done this bad, because they didn’t call the squad shite after a handful of games, because they couldn’t adapt to his mid season tactical revolution overnight - that is not what an interim is meant to do.

When Ole came he had the players believing again almost instantly and kept things simple, that’s why we did so well.

The only reason Ralf is so loved on here and social media is because he mirrors the moaning about our players which our online fanbase thrive on.
 
sugar_kane said:
Not having a go but honestly I hate this argument - the whole point of sacking a manager is to get improved results, not replicate what has already gone before.

A manager is sacked because results are going very, very badly - which they were under Ole. All Ralf has done is prolong this rather than sort it out to any extent.

If you’re comparing Ole to Ralf it makes no sense to do it based on Ole’s sacking form, but the two and half years prior to that.

We’ve had three interims since Sir Alex and none of them have done this bad, because they didn’t call the squad shite after a handful of games, because they couldn’t adapt to his mid season tactical revolution overnight - that is not what an interim is meant to do.

When Ole came he had the players believing again almost instantly and kept things simple, that’s why we did so well.

The only reason Ralf is so loved on here and social media is because he mirrors the moaning about our players which our online fanbase thrive on.
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Spot on.
 
It was another strange appointment to begin with. Rangnick is a pressing merchant, who cares a lot about team cohesion and the attitude of player. He has never shown particular tactical flexibility or charisma. Most of the (german) coaches who embraced the "pressing as playmaker" idea, either evolved & adopted other elements, manage smaller clubs or vanished. He is one of the few persistent ones.
Involving him as interim manager makes no sense, even if you want to revamp the club and go in this direction. Unsurprisingly he failed, because United is currently not able to play a high pressing, high intensity game. Rangnicks approach to fixing this is imo to ship out players who don't put in the work and buy better players. I certainly believe that United needs to do that, because the lack of professionalism, fitness and attitude is appalling, but these are not things you can do as interim during the season.
 
sugar_kane said:
Not having a go but honestly I hate this argument - the whole point of sacking a manager is to get improved results, not replicate what has already gone before.

A manager is sacked because results are going very, very badly - which they were under Ole. All Ralf has done is prolong this rather than sort it out to any extent.

If you’re comparing Ole to Ralf it makes no sense to do it based on Ole’s sacking form, but the two and half years prior to that.

We’ve had three interims since Sir Alex and none of them have done this bad, because they didn’t call the squad shite after a handful of games, because they couldn’t adapt to his mid season tactical revolution overnight - that is not what an interim is meant to do.

When Ole came he had the players believing again almost instantly and kept things simple, that’s why we did so well.

The only reason Ralf is so loved on here and social media is because he mirrors the moaning about our players which our online fanbase thrive on.
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What argument? That our performances were shit before and after he arrived? That he has failed in turning our season around? Or me not knowing whether that's because he's a shit coach or the players are just too hopeless?
 
PedroMendez said:
It was another strange appointment to begin with. Rangnick is a pressing merchant, who cares a lot about team cohesion and the attitude of player. He has never shown particular tactical flexibility or charisma. Most of the (german) coaches who embraced the "pressing as playmaker" idea, either evolved & adopted other elements, manage smaller clubs or vanished. He is one of the few persistent ones.
Involving him as interim manager makes no sense, even if you want to revamp the club and go in this direction. Unsurprisingly he failed, because United is currently not able to play a high pressing, high intensity game. Rangnicks approach to fixing this is imo to ship out players who don't put in the work and buy better players. I certainly believe that United needs to do that, because the lack of professionalism, fitness and attitude is appalling, but these are not things you can do as interim during the season.
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I still think that could be a blessing in disguise for Ten Hag.
It has become very apparent for everyone with even the slightest bit of football knowledge that a lot of our players cannot play a high line system.
Ten Hag will not have to make these experiences himself. This season was a disaster but if it has made the glaring issues and the extent of rebuild needed apparent then thats a worthy trade off in my book.
 
Lyng said:
I still think that could be a blessing in disguise for Ten Hag.
It has become very apparent for everyone with even the slightest bit of football knowledge that a lot of our players cannot play a high line system.
Ten Hag will not have to make these experiences himself. This season was a disaster but if it has made the glaring issues and the extent of rebuild needed apparent then thats a worthy trade off in my book.
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Its not just that United can't play a high line. Top team don't replace hard work with quality/flair, but combine both. I don't think that Ten Hag needed Rangnick to realize that many of these players are acting highly unprofessional or are just not good enough.
United may take something positive from this, but I am not sure how this vindicates appointing Rangnick as interim manager. He could have joined the club in a different capacity. After all the initial plan was that he'd consult on the club/team development. Thats imo still something, where his inputs could be useful, but I am not sure this is tenable after the last few month. The only positive thing in the current situation is, that finally some of the bigger names in the club are getting shown the door. I have no idea if that has anything to do with Ralf, but its certainly a positive development. It remains to be seen, if these guys were responsible for many of the bad decisions, but accountability has to start somewhere. Its not enough to axe the players.
 
PedroMendez said:
Its not just that United can't play a high line. Top team don't replace hard work with quality/flair, but combine both. I don't think that Ten Hag needed Rangnick to realize that many of these players are acting highly unprofessional or are just not good enough.
United may take something positive from this, but I am not sure how this vindicates appointing Rangnick as interim manager. He could have joined the club in a different capacity. After all the initial plan was that he'd consult on the club/team development. Thats imo still something, where his inputs could be useful, but I am not sure this is tenable after the last few month. The only positive thing in the current situation is, that finally some of the bigger names in the club are getting shown the door. I have no idea if that has anything to do with Ralf, but its certainly a positive development. It remains to be seen, if these guys were responsible for many of the bad decisions, but accountability has to start somewhere. Its not enough to axe the players.
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The best solution would have been to hire him full time for a consulting / sports director type role and then keep Carrick as interim. But sadly Carrick didnt want to stay.
 
MvG said:
Ralf was brought in to consult which means he will still have a say after his interim role. If that context is lost on you I don’t know what else to say.
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I know he's going to be a consultant though I still have my doubts that was the reason he was brought in. No one at this stage even knows the extent and influence of his consultancy role is still pretty undefined.

But getting back on point the only real difference pre and post Ralf has been press conferences. Whether his let's say openness turns out to be a positive long term is still to be determined.
 
Lyng said:
The best solution would have been to hire him full time for a consulting / sports director type role and then keep Carrick as interim. But sadly Carrick didnt want to stay.
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IIRC he didn't want to stay on as coach, but probably would have continued as interim till end of the season. Whether or not Rangnick would've been happy with just the consultant job remains to be seen, since it was a lateral move.
 
sugar_kane said:
Not having a go but honestly I hate this argument - the whole point of sacking a manager is to get improved results, not replicate what has already gone before.

A manager is sacked because results are going very, very badly - which they were under Ole. All Ralf has done is prolong this rather than sort it out to any extent.

If you’re comparing Ole to Ralf it makes no sense to do it based on Ole’s sacking form, but the two and half years prior to that.

We’ve had three interims since Sir Alex and none of them have done this bad, because they didn’t call the squad shite after a handful of games, because they couldn’t adapt to his mid season tactical revolution overnight - that is not what an interim is meant to do.

When Ole came he had the players believing again almost instantly and kept things simple, that’s why we did so well.

The only reason Ralf is so loved on here and social media is because he mirrors the moaning about our players which our online fanbase thrive on.
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Bingo
 
Long Time Red said:
His job was to get the squad to perform better than they were under Solskjaer which he has failed miserably at, not to assess them.
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Okay, but you could argue that his task was an impossible one, that anyone taking charge of this squad would have suffered the same problems.
 
All my hopes of him turning things around faded after the first month. He realised that he was talking to a bunch of morons who were too thick to take on his tactics and had to resort to schoolboy football at times. He has failed but it’s not his fault, it the board (again) for making the wrong decision.
 
Random Task said:
Okay, but you could argue that his task was an impossible one, that anyone taking charge of this squad would have suffered the same problems.
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If Ralf had a decent coaching CV then maybe, but it's difficult to argue the likes of Favre, Valverde and Garcia wouldn't have done much better, as they have all turned around struggling teams mid-season before and far greater coaching experience.
 
Long Time Red said:
If Ralf had a decent coaching CV then maybe, but it's difficult to argue the likes of Favre, Valverde and Garcia wouldn't have done much better, as they have all turned around struggling teams mid-season before and far greater coaching experience.
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Hindsight is 20/20 but any temporary gaffer would struggle in fairness to RR. End of season say thanks and draw a line under it, no point kicking a dog when its down.
 
I was optimistic when he came in but his massive failure has made him lose a lot of credibility for me. I'm not even sure anymore how much of an impact he will have in his upstairs role but I do hope he's a lot better at that than managing.

Really hope he strongly advises Erik to get rid of all the passengers immediately.
 
BlueHaze said:
I was optimistic when he came in but his massive failure has made him lose a lot of credibility for me. I'm not even sure anymore how much of an impact he will have in his upstairs role but I do hope he's a lot better at that than managing.

Really hope he strongly advises Erik to get rid of all the passengers immediately.
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He has no upstairs role as many claimed here. It’s a consulting work, part time, given to him to get him as interim manager because he doesn’t want to seek a new job after six months.
This place is full of people with distortion of reality.
 
Offsideagain said:
All my hopes of him turning things around faded after the first month. He realised that he was talking to a bunch of morons who were too thick to take on his tactics and had to resort to schoolboy football at times. He has failed but it’s not his fault, it the board (again) for making the wrong decision.
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People actually believe this nonsense? Our players played possession football when LVG wanted it, compact and direct football under Jose and counter attack to great effect under Ole.

The lengths people are going to discredit the players doesn't even make sense anymore. There's nothing particularly great or complex about Rangnick's style that our players couldn't have adapted better. Obviously there's no way we would've been a pressing machine like Liverpool but he woefully failed at getting a working system. He is to blame for that.
 
This will be his last game in charge. Not sure it matters anymore about his coaching ability, but I'm hoping his consultancy adds value. At the very least we will have a non-United person giving a proper analysis of the players and their "ability" to the new coach and he is likely to be ruthless in his assessment.
 
USREDEVIL said:
This will be his last game in charge. Not sure it matters anymore about his coaching ability, but I'm hoping his consultancy adds value. At the very least we will have a non-United person giving a proper analysis of the players and their "ability" to the new coach and he is likely to be ruthless in his assessment.
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It’s crystal palace who has been great under viera. We probably will get another embarrassment. As a manutd supporter, it is gutted to say this before the game is not even started. What a poor decision to appoint Ralf as interim manager.
 
El Jefe said:
People actually believe this nonsense? Our players played possession football when LVG wanted it, compact and direct football under Jose and counter attack to great effect under Ole.

The lengths people are going to discredit the players doesn't even make sense anymore. There's nothing particularly great or complex about Rangnick's style that our players couldn't have adapted better. Obviously there's no way we would've been a pressing machine like Liverpool but he woefully failed at getting a working system. He is to blame for that.
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His system might not be more than that. I don't think people really watched his RB Liepzig team. There wasn't much to it outside the tight, narrow press. A shape which might not actually work so well in England. There's a massive chance that his lack of variety in system got massively exposed and he's hiding behind the players, which is not to say they haven't been poor. The truth is, as fans, we already know who the poor players are. What Rangnick has done, which has me questioning him, is how he immediately isolated AWB and Shaw, replacing them with Dalot and Telles who are significantly worse. Our fans never truly questioned this decision, backing him, but I really believe we look so bad at the moment simply based on elements of this decision. When a team has a poor midfield and poor full backs, a team will always struggle to build up and control the game.
 
El Jefe said:
People actually believe this nonsense? Our players played possession football when LVG wanted it, compact and direct football under Jose and counter attack to great effect under Ole.

The lengths people are going to discredit the players doesn't even make sense anymore. There's nothing particularly great or complex about Rangnick's style that our players couldn't have adapted better. Obviously there's no way we would've been a pressing machine like Liverpool but he woefully failed at getting a working system. He is to blame for that.
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That's a good point.

So why didn't they adapt to his playstyle?
 
mu4c_20le said:
Might be the same reason why nobody uses 4222 in the league..
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Are you saying the players decided amongst themselves that his formation wouldn't be successful in the PL, so they didn't bother trying?

Now that I could definitely believe :p
 
Random Task said:
That's a good point.

So why didn't they adapt to his playstyle?
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he himself say in his very first press conference that it would be very difficult for a team to switch formation/play style mid-season?

Of course that doesn't also discount the possibility that the players didn't try hard enough to adapt.
 
Random Task said:
That's a good point.

So why didn't they adapt to his playstyle?
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It seems like he's the one that gave up. He tried to shoehorn our players into a 4222 system that clearly didn't work.

Truth is Ralf lacks ideas and is as one dimensional as it gets. I remember when Conte joined Chelsea, he wanted to play a 424 formation, it didn't suit the players and once he changed to 343 they started flying. Ralf's Plan A didn't work and he decided to start throwing players under the bus for that.

ETH will get a decent number of our current players playing exactly how he wants and it will only expose how hopeless a coach Rangnick is.
 
stevoc said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he himself say in his very first press conference that it would be very difficult for a team to switch formation/play style mid-season?

Of course that doesn't also discount the possibility that the players didn't try hard enough to adapt.
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I don't recall that but I'll take you at your word.

It's probably a case of both sides being at fault - it usually is in these situations. The players probably didn't fancy the idea of adapting to a new system for an interim, knowing they'd have to bin that system when the new manager arrived at the end of the season.

And Rangnick might have been too quick to throw them under the bus (a month into his reign) when he realized they weren't good or fit enough to adopt his play style. His substitutions have been a little odd at times too.
 
El Jefe said:
It seems like he's the one that gave up. He tried to shoehorn our players into a 4222 system that clearly didn't work.

Truth is Ralf lacks ideas and is as one dimensional as it gets. I remember when Conte joined Chelsea, he wanted to play a 424 formation, it didn't suit the players and once he changed to 343 they started flying. Ralf's Plan A didn't work and he decided to start throwing players under the bus for that.

ETH will get a decent number of our current players playing exactly how he wants and it will only expose how hopeless a coach Rangnick is.
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It's difficult to say where the fault truly lies because we don't know the full extent of the problems facing the manager when he arrived. But we'll learn the truth before long.

If ETH decides to ship out a tonne of players this summer in accordance with Ralf's "dossier of doom", we'll know Rangnick was correct in his assessment of the squad. If he decides to ignore Ralf and work with the majority of the existing squad, getting them playing at an acceptable level, we'll know it was Ralf's shitness as a football manager all along.
 
Random Task said:
Okay, but you could argue that his task was an impossible one, that anyone taking charge of this squad would have suffered the same problems.
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No one is asking RR to make us compete with Liverpool or ManCity immediately....

Chelsea are shit this year, non of their forwards are good at scoring goal, and Lukaku isn't a solution to that.
Spurs are inconsistent, Arsenal are no better despite all those crazy PR that said Arteta invented football, West ham have a thin squad, Lechister just suck when Vardy no longer relevant, Leeds had injury crisis and have been fallen off to lower league standard since their manager sacked, Everton just suck horribly................etc, etc

With so many teams not performing to their standard, if we win 4~5 matches that we should've won, we would've been top4, how is that an impossible job for any decent manager/coach?? It is not like we are lacking in quality to beat those underperfromed midtable team?
 
Rio isn't his biggest fan it seems:

"I don’t agree with the way that he’s airing the dirty laundry in public while he’s still in the hotseat, while he’s still in there," the ex-England international told his Vibe with FIVE YouTube show. "It’s nice sometimes for fans, you want to get a bit of insight, but there’s information that he’s letting out [that he shouldn’t be].

"You’re still in the job, man, relax, have some respect for the people around you. Make waves behind the scenes. Push and pull and jostle for positions and outcomes behind the scenes with people. I’ve said this for a couple of weeks now, he’s saying a lot of stuff to almost distance himself from responsibility. But he has to accept some responsibility that the team has got worse since he’s been in there."

"For all the great work he’s done at previous clubs, a lot of that was recruitment and bringing players in. He’s been brought in to be a manager and manage this team and navigate them to Champions League football," Ferdinand added.

"He’s failed in that department, and that’s undeniable. But then he’s shifting blame all over the place and that’s the bit that really I find a little bit distasteful."
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manutd-ferdinand-rangnick-interview-ban-26920354
 
glasgow 21 said:
Hindsight is 20/20 but any temporary gaffer would struggle in fairness to RR. End of season say thanks and draw a line under it, no point kicking a dog when its down.
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We looked a lot more solid during Carrick's brief stint. When we talk about Ralf steadying the ship, Carrick already achieved that and in all likelihood we would have fared much better this season if he had carried on. As for the notion that Ralf is setting us up for next season, well, that's a complete myth. We're a bigger mess now than when he took over and compiling a dossier which states "buy a new team" isn't going to change that.
 
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