Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[SilentWitness]

I'm leaning toward that direction. But I don't even think that it's about systems, too many of our players are individualists. They may be successful in a different environment surrounded by more altruistic players but you can't stockpile that kind of player and expect them to work as a team. I'm specifically thinking about the likes of Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood or McTominay.

That's also fair. For me it was particularly apparent with Bruno last night.

 

[fergieisold]

The positive is we're a lot more solid and not conceding goals. There's also some signs of improvement from the game last night, just needs time to see where we go with this but people already turning on him are ridiculous.

 

[Santos J]

I guess it's a positive that we have somewhat shored up our defense. Four goals conceded in Ralf's seven games is not too bad, given where we came from. I know the opposition has not been the strongest, but under Ole we let in four vs. both Leicester and Watford alone.

Don't think this really matters tbf because as you mentioned, it's not like we at least kept clean sheets against the lower teams before we were shipping goals for fun in those too.

 

[VP89]

Yeah but it’s not just Gerrard is it, loads of managers make an instant positive impact, so in that sense it’s not like the Tuchel CL example at all.

My take is still the same, Rangnick is probably still a very smart tactician but another weird, illogical move by the club.

No way he’s able to implement his style in such a short time with incompatible players and undermined by being on a short term contract.

I do also wonder if he’s ready to handle this type of pressure and these types of egos, but you could say that about many managers before they’re given a shot.

Rangnick is there to completely reset the system and implement a controlling the ball philosophy that's not been attempted for 5+ years. That sort of wiring doesn't happen overnight - if you want a good example I would turn to Klopp when he joined Liverpool. Except Rangnick is even more against it because he has more overrated players through transfer fees (Maguire, AWB, Fred) and some that are harder to whip during a congested and covid riddled fixture season.

This idea that he should get a tune out of his players in such disruption needs to be put to bed. It's so simplistic and far fetched - there's a multitude of issues at our club but Rangnick and his methods isn't one of them.

Oh the irony. Nobody on here is expecting that at all. What Tuchel did is fairytale stuff. Hardly ever happens.

After 7/8 games I expected to see improvement though. I haven't seen any. We've played well for 45 mins in 7 games. That's less than under previous management team where we played well at Chelsea, home to Arsenal and away to Spurs.

New manager bounce must have skipped us eh?

Ralf isn't the Messiah he's been made out to be. Let's be honest here. Steven Gerrard outcoached him last night and we got extremely lucky. Wolves manager did last week too. We are being set up to fail from his tactics.

Read above - stop trying to lazily compare manager impact in one broad stroke. We are undergoing a complete reset in our philosophy and style of play, and we have bigger egos to manage and haven't had an actual coach focusing on systematic press, control and possession for over 5 years. Comparing that to Gerrard who hasn't needed to drastically change the shape or philosophy of how Villa played is plain dim, nothing else.

Rangnick has lost to Wolves, drawn to Newcastle and won the rest during a time where a material amount of his squad want out (because of the shit management prior to him), covid disrupted 16 days of preparation and some dick ego's refuse to understand they have to work off the ball in order to win games.

And this insinuation that other managers would do much better is just crazy. Conte is doing well enough with Spurs but if you watch their games they aren't exactly fully transformed either. They rode their luck vs Southampton, they were outplayed comprehensively vs Chelsea in a match where you'd think Nuno was still in charge, they were 15 mins from crashing out of the FA Cup to Morecambe ffs.

Quit trying to act like impacts can be quick just because other managers have done so and try to understand what Rangnick is trying to do. He is literally going out to the squad and resetting everyone. If they don't want to be at the club he's keeping them out the squad or away from the starting XI, he's making them work in training sessions a lot harder and he is pissing a lot of them off in the short term which will undoubtedly lead to volatility in results. But this pain is essential for us to improve. Why you refuse to see that is just beggars belief. Instead you'd rather bone Steven Gerrard at Villa who hasn't needed to change much at the club outside of initiate a new manager bounce thus far.

 

[L1nk]

The fact that our players are apparently as thick as two short planks and Ralf is having to simplify his instructions in order for them to understand anything is a massive red x in the box of the previous regime and is an absolute embarassment. How can you blame Ralf if our squad are just too dumb to carry out instructions, you think getting ETH now would have changed anything? They’d have been too dumb to carry out his instructions as well seeing as how none of them can pass the ball 5 yards with any precision or are massively overhitting it. Our squad must have one of the lowest footballing iq’s ive ever seen. Couple that with our average midfield, Greenwood who just wants to shoot all the time, Rashford with his cba attitude that takes 10 seconds on the ball only for him to run into his man and lose it. They aren’t listening at all, I feel sorry for Ralf

 

[Mainoldo]

The fact that our players are apparently as thick as two short planks and Ralf is having to simplify his instructions in order for them to understand anything is a massive red x in the box of the previous regime and is an absolute embarassment. How can you blame Ralf if our squad are just too dumb to carry out instructions, you think getting ETH now would have changed anything? They’d have been too dumb to carry out his instructions as well seeing as how none of them can pass the ball 5 yards with any precision or are massively overhitting it. Our squad must have one of the lowest footballing iq’s ive ever seen. Couple that with our average midfield, Greenwood who just wants to shoot all the time, Rashford with his cba attitude that takes 10 seconds on the ball only for him to run into his man and lose it. They aren’t listening at all, I feel sorry for Ralf

So are they the thickest players in the league? I need to know and name names.

 

[VP89]

So are they the thickest players in the league? I need to know and name names.

I don't think its just this, but if you dumb down coaching for 3+ years they are going to be given a shock when it comes to intricate instructions.

The poster is right though - if the players are struggling to understand press triggers, they would struggle with even Ten Hag.

 

[redshaw]

I'm amazed with the state of our players, and how they've been performing most of the season.

It's amazing and not at the same time.

Last season the results and 2nd place, even if we say it was a net 4th in reality was masking a very poorly playing team. We'd concede early, play 70-80 mins of the most tumescent stuff and then blitz teams for 10-20 mins. Shaw was perhaps the anomaly and had a good six months.

Many of this team collapsed after Ole's initial good run in 2019. We slid down the table from March 2019 to sixth and got smashed by Everton and even Cardiff at home in the last game. The start of the next season we were in the bottom half for a long time and climb to mid table by December, we had like one in five with absolutely dire football, no creativity or passing rhythm. When Bruno came he made it all click by linking up the play, from Jan 2020 to the end of the season we even had others saying we were playing good football and if you recall Pogba wasn't even featuring until the end.

We've seen how poor the team is when Bruno isn't playing well and before he came which was 8 months straight of relegation form. As Bruno's play has become more erratic we've gone from playing well in the second half of the 19/2020 season to playing in fits and starts counters mostly last season 20/2021 to be pretty much broken again this season. If Bruno and to a lesser extent Pogba aren't doing it, the base of team is so poor on their own, this was explicitly outlined during that 8 months spell of teeth pulling football with the likes of Rashford, Martial, McTom, Fred, Matic. Newer additions like AWB don't change anything. The core team in the last 2-3 years are really poor and we've had similarly poor players coming in and out.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't think its just this, but if you dumb down coaching for 3+ years they are going to be given a shock when it comes to intricate instructions.

The poster is right though - if the players are struggling to understand press triggers, they would struggle with even Ten Hag.

I agree but I feel like you are pretty much saying is that these bunch of players are psychological not equipped for modern day instructions?

Now does that mean they can't do it? No I don't believe so... but you have to remove bad habits. Which can also be easily done by removing strong characters.

I feel it's the mental issues that is holding this squad back instead of skill set capability which many believe.

 

[VP89]

I agree but I feel like you are pretty much saying is that these bunch of players are psychological not equipped for modern day instructions?

Now does that mean they can't do it? No I don't believe so... but you have to remove bad habits. Which can also be easily done by removing strong characters.

I feel it's the mental issues that is holding this squad back instead of skill set capability which many believe.

No, I am saying when you devoid players of modern day instructions for 3+ years, it becomes a shock to the system when they're given intricate tactical trainings. It feels like an overload when in reality it may well be the same as any other club training.

 

[ICHM]

Wrong manager who can't see beyond his one trick.

The players don't look motivated or understand what the game plan is, and the manager sticks with a game plan that might work in the Championship but not the Premiership.

Bruno obviously is not on board and can't play in that plan.

 

[Anustart89]

I love this obsession with criticising the 4-2-2-2, as if that's what is causing our problems. Take that 4-2-2-2 with Greenwood and Rashford hugging the touchlines like they did yesterday and play Bruno as one of the 2 up front and it's Ole's 4-2-4. Move Bruno back five yards and it's Ole's 4-2-3-1. Now, people think that those minor adjustments are what will make us gain control in midfield? Piss off.

I mean, if our players can't control the ball and accurately pass it to a teammate, how are we ever going to keep possession? We could have six central midfielders in centre midfield but if they don't run after their opponents, anticipate the opponents' passes or pass accurately it's not like the sheer amount of bodies is going to lead to possession or "not being overrun". I, having been a huge Ole outer, am starting to feel sympathetic towards him as many of these guys have shown themselves to be plain shit, which is becoming very obvious now. What's been added to this shitness is a general lack of effort which is even worse from a bunch of supposed professionals.

 

[Ikon]

Look at Liverpool, at City their players work socks off week in week out. That's the only way to consistently win in the modern football, work really hard and work as a team.
We need to fully support him and not the lazy entitled players this time.

I don't think it's limited to Modern Football, look at the effort and team work that Fergie's teams put in, or the Liverpool teams of the 70's.

I've played at a good level of semi professional football, and at lower leagues of professional football, and the ethic was always work hard for the team.
Sometimes you'll have a bad game, that happens, but that's just all the more reason to work even harder for your team.
Even at under 11s, it was the same ethic, so it just astounds me that Premier league players, full Internationals, just don't seem to have that basic trait ingrained into them.

 

[Mainoldo]

No, I am saying when you devoid players of modern day instructions for 3+ years, it becomes a shock to the system when they're given intricate tactical trainings. It feels like an overload when in reality it may well be the same as any other club training.

So do these players struggle to do this internationally or do all their international teams play like United?

It's a culture of bad habbits which is what i'm trying to say. But these come from our leaders in the camp. Football is not that complex, they are rejecting the tactics because the main leaders of our "Cultural Reset" don't like it. These players need to be divided.

 

[Blood Mage]

Christ if yesterday was the best we can do the rest of the season will be painful.

 

[Sviken]

The fact that our players are apparently as thick as two short planks and Ralf is having to simplify his instructions in order for them to understand anything is a massive red x in the box of the previous regime and is an absolute embarassment. How can you blame Ralf if our squad are just too dumb to carry out instructions, you think getting ETH now would have changed anything? They’d have been too dumb to carry out his instructions as well seeing as how none of them can pass the ball 5 yards with any precision or are massively overhitting it. Our squad must have one of the lowest footballing iq’s ive ever seen. Couple that with our average midfield, Greenwood who just wants to shoot all the time, Rashford with his cba attitude that takes 10 seconds on the ball only for him to run into his man and lose it. They aren’t listening at all, I feel sorry for Ralf

I absolutely agree. We can't expect much of Ralf at this point. Too much damage has been done by persisting with Ole for 3 years. Now Ralf needs to put his foot down and burn this squad to the ground, only keeping those who are 100% going to give it all. I don't care if its Bruno, Ronaldo, Rashford or whoever - cut, cut, cut until only those who will listen to the manager are left. That way, even if we fail this season, the groundworks would be laid for the next manager and if that is Hag, he'd have a much easier and comfortable job rather than rebuild this whole mess from the start. At this point I don't care if we miss top 4 but this mess has to be fixed

 

[rooneyberbatov]

I don't think its just this, but if you dumb down coaching for 3+ years they are going to be given a shock when it comes to intricate instructions.

The poster is right though - if the players are struggling to understand press triggers, they would struggle with even Ten Hag.

This is my take, too. Plus, I think people underestimate the time a team needs in order to pick up a completely new system. Some time ago I read an interview with Lewandowski about Bayern struggling to adapt to Nagelsmann's new system in training. So if Bayern needed time, we would need more than half a year, surely.

 

[VP89]

So do these players struggle to do this internationally or do all their international teams play like United?

It's a culture of bad habbits which is what i'm trying to say. But these come from our leaders in the camp. Football is not that complex, they are rejecting the tactics because the main leaders of our "Cultural Reset" don't like it. These players need to be divided.

Cup games aren't like club ones. You wont find a single nation operating with intricate press and high octane football tactics. They all play pragmatic counter attacks now because that's the quickest and easiest to implement for a short run. Thats also why Internationals are more of a borefest these days, unless an exciting group of players light the stage on fire.

 

[JPRouve]

So do these players struggle to do this internationally or do all their international teams play like United?

It's a culture of bad habbits which is what i'm trying to say. But these come from our leaders in the camp. Football is not that complex, they are rejecting the tactics because the main leaders of our "Cultural Reset" don't like it. These players need to be divided.

If I'm not mistaken most of the players that are currently struggling are fringe international players. They do struggle internationally.

 

[AneRu]

He's simply is the wrong appointment at the wrong time.

An interim is there to uplift the spirits and motivate people so they can perform. He is more of a man manager. Think of what Di Mateo, Grant, Hiddink or even Ole did. They are there to simply raise the spirits for a couple of months before they feck off.

Ralf on the other hand is a disciplinary tactician who doesn't have any experience in coaching big egos. His only experience if coaching mostly kids who are happy to be picked up from smaller leagues by his Red Bull clubs. Those players have a different mentality. They are willing to do whatever it takes to get picked up by one of the Top clubs.

Our group of players are different. In their mind they "already made it". So Ralf's approach won't work here. That's why our team looks so demotivated on the pitch. It's really hard to get motivated when your manager doesn't sound like someone who is going to throw an arm around you, but instead sounds like a school headmaster with a broom stuck up his arse(from the player's perspective). Especially when you know that he will feck off at the end of the season.

I will tell you who's "already made it" and that's certainly not the whiny, overpaid and treacherous bunch we have stinking up the place at Old Trafford - players at Chelsea, Liverpool and City have won the lot and work ten times as hard as our players. The fact that he will feck off at the end of the season shouldn't be an acceptable license to slacken off, he will be teaching them a very important aspect of the game which is employed by all the dominant teams in the PL which in my opinion should be something they should be eager to add to their arsenal even if it may not help them this season. I don't think Ralf is a great manager but we know that he is capable of implementing his style and elements of that style are what we need to be competitive so its outrageous for highly paid millionaires who have won nothing to deliberately ignore the manager's instructions that will take them a step[ closer to success and we as fans shouldn't tolerate that nonsense either.

 

[Mainoldo]

If I'm not mistaken most of the players that are currently struggling are fringe international players. They do struggle internationally.

Name them.

 

[Mainoldo]

Cup games aren't like club ones. You wont find a single nation operating with intricate press and high octane football tactics. They all play pragmatic counter attacks now because that's the quickest and easiest to implement for a short run. Thats also why Internationals are more of a borefest these days, unless an exciting group of players light the stage on fire.

Exactly but they perform. Which is my point. It's about the culture. Fix that then you can implement tactics or if you want immediate impact play players that fit your Philosophy, the the right positions.

He's done neither.. Yesterday he just played a Ole 11 with Ole tactics.

 

[sugar_kane]

Christ if yesterday was the best we can do the rest of the season will be painful.

Yeah I was flabbergasted when I saw this.

It was a clear improvement on what's gone before, but that was such a woefully low benchmark I don't think we should be shouting about it right now.

 

[JPRouve]

Name them.

None of Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay, Sancho, Van de Beek, Martial, De Gea, Wan Bissaka are solid international players. Someone like Pogba struggled for a long time.

 

[Stobzilla]

Christ if yesterday was the best we can do the rest of the season will be painful.

Absolutely nowhere in that tweet did it say that

For as bad as we were yesterday, we should have scored at least 3 and it should have definitely been at least 2 by half time.

 

[VP89]

Exactly but they perform. Which is my point. It's about the culture. Fix that then you can implement tactics or if you want immediate impact play players that fit your Philosophy, the the right positions.

He's done neither.. Yesterday he just played a Ole 11 with Ole tactics.

It's a completely irrelevant point (national competitions), so your argument collapses right there. As already explained, the system is different and the format is different. For example a reason Pogba is seen to perform well enough for France but underperform over long stretches of club campaigns. Cup competitions are what, 8 games if you go all the way. In other words, you can play pragmatic counter football and have good form to take you through. That's not how club matches work - if you play that way over 38 games in the Premier League you'll do extremely well to achieve top 4 let alone any cups.

Saying Rangnick plays with Ole tactics is about as daft as it gets to be honest. We may have surrendered control to Villa from shit passing but it was quite evident to see us higher up the pitch and triggers of the press (specifically when Villa players went wide, as the touchline was used as an extra man to try and suffocate them). There is a lot of difference in what Rangnick is trying to adopt, and it will take a lot of time before it starts baring fruit.

Baseless comparisons to national tournaments are just irrelevant - it's a completely different format.

Even if I did entertain your point about players performing - who did really perform outside of Luke Shaw? Bruno didn't light the Euros on fire, nor did McT or Pogba or Rashford. Greenwood didn't even go, Lindelof was the same for Sweden as he is for United, as was Varane. It just makes no sense, such a lazy insinuation to claim they do much better anyway.

 

[AshRK]

By appointing him and most likely not signing a midfielder, the board has basically written of this season. I hope I am wrong Ragnick and the team starts playing well but this seems a wrong appointment so far. We could easily get top 4 and out goal should be that along with going as far as possible in CL and maybe winning the FA cup. I don't want us to play europa or god forbid conference league.

 

[Still ill]

Was it possible to see signs of what they were trying to do last night? Absolutely. Was there progress from the last display? Clearly. We're coming from a really shite place with many of our players woefully out of form. We'll just have be patient.

 

[Still ill]

I do think one key midfield signing would help him tremendously.

 

[VP89]

Christ if yesterday was the best we can do the rest of the season will be painful.

I think for now it is, but we can only get better

 

[Di Maria's angel]

We've some very stupid players - Rashford and Greenwood have terrible football IQs.

 

[JPRouve]

I do think one key midfield signing would help him tremendously.

If you add someone that has the skillset of Verratti or the skillset of someone like Carrick then the fabric of the midfield change. I still don't think that there is a way to turn that attack into a cohesive bunch, they are all too focused on being the one scoring instead of feeding their teammates, make runs that help others or simply press.

 

[Garethw]

Why can’t we bring a midfielder in on loan? Surely there is someone available that is better than what we’ve got?

 

[macheda14]

We've some very stupid players - Rashford and Greenwood have terrible football IQs.

Greenwood doesn't really, his decision making was one of his best attributes early on. He's just become selfish. Feck, he's not going to be Ronaldo. But do we not remember how selfish he was (and then has become again). Rashford I'm losing hope with.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Greenwood doesn't really, his decision making was one of his best attributes early on. He's just become selfish. Feck, he's not going to be Ronaldo. But do we not remember how selfish he was (and then has become again). Rashford I'm losing hope with.

Mason has turned into a one trick "come onto his left foot and shoot" player. Selfish or not, he does it every time and its stupid.

 

[#07]

If you add someone that has the skillset of Verratti or the skillset of someone like Carrick then the fabric of the midfield change. I still don't think that there is a way to turn that attack into a cohesive bunch, they are all to focused on being the one scoring instead of feeding their teammates, make runs that help others or simply press.

You are right and its embarrassing to watch. I keep hearing that so and so 'needs and goal.' Boy do they play like it. Imagine instead of going it alone they looked up and played a square pass to their teammates in space. We would look so different.

I feel for Rangnick because, clearly, the playing staff simply isn't responding. The way we're playing exhibits none of the things he likes about football or has instilled in his previous sides. Its almost as if he isn't there and I wonder whether part of him wishes he wasn't.

 

[Gavinb33]

Mason has turned into a one trick "come onto his left foot and shoot" player. Selfish or not, he does it every time and its stupid.

Robben made an elite career by pretty much doing just this

 

[JPRouve]

Robben made an elite career by pretty much doing just this

On top of having double digits assists every seasons during his prime.

 

[Mainoldo]

None of Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay, Sancho, Van de Beek, Martial, De Gea, Wan Bissaka are solid international players. Someone like Pogba struggled for a long time.

Okay so are non solid international players are also struggling at club level to adapt to tactics? Point proven. Hence why I said we need to divide this current culture of players we have. That’s 9 players right there. 6 of them are starters. No surprise the system doesn’t work.

 

[saivet]

We've some very stupid players - Rashford and Greenwood have terrible football IQs.

Not too make excuses for them but Greenwood's only previous first team coach is Ole. Even though LVG introduced him, his club managers have been Jose and Ole. I think it's only normal that some of them may not really understand what's going on.