Raiola: "I can say that it's over for Pogba at United"

[MikeKing]

Literally playing midfielders that struggle with 10 yard passes but Pogba’s the issue.

‘A couple Solid midfielders’ ffs! so we can continue to struggle for possession in big games with a few more McTominay’s recycling possession for the opposition. If the ‘purpose’ is to sit back & hope for counterattacks then we may aswell get rid of Bruno as well while we’re at it.

When he came on to provide the assist against PSG, was he simply a strong guy? How about when the mighty McFred were masterminding our way to a 1-1 draw against Newcastle for him to come on then we go on a goal blitz? The list can go on, the guy can’t win with his own fanbase; far & away one of our best players but let’s sell him for something more ‘solid’.

Can you find midfielders more combative? Hell yes. You’ll find midfielders that run rounds lots more too but when your first 11 is hardly full of the most technical players you don’t sell the one midfielder that can keep possession in his sleep.

You’d think he’s been Denilson the way people go on, the man does more in cameos than ‘solid’ Caf faves & that’s not debatable.

You think Pogba keeps possession in his sleep? Must be why he wastes it when awake.

It's also telling that the only way you can big up the player is to literally go out of your way to shit on the rest of the team, the team effort and the continuous development of our squad just to make Pogba look bigger. I wont even waste time arguing with you because I like Pogba and I don't want to shit on him but the premiss of your post is so fanboyish that my response would seem like I hate Pogba just from pointing out you're wrong.

I said 'lets buy a couple of solid players' but you don't want that to happen because you want Pogba to stay in the team instead is that it? What happened is you fabricated something to give passion to your thoughts and just assumed these new players I want in the team needs to be worse or similar to the ones we have competing with Pogba now. That's interesting how you came up with that.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

You think Pogba keeps possession in his sleep? Must be why he wastes it when awake.

It's also telling that the only way you can big up the player is to literally go out of your way to shit on the rest of the team, the team effort and the continuous development of our squad just to make Pogba look bigger. I wont even waste time arguing with you because I like Pogba and I don't want to shit on him but the premiss of your post is so fanboyish that my response would seem like I hate Pogba just from pointing out you're wrong.

I’m not going out of my way to sh*t on the team. It’s rather simple; is Rashford a better player than say. . . Dan James? Is that me saying Dan James is crap or doing what your blinkers won’t let you & calling it how it is.

What is telling is that you’ve shat on the man who was player of the tournament the last time we did something in a European competition; according to you he’s simply a ‘strong guy’ which is a rather dim equation for what he does for the team. Saying Pogba is better than McTominay &/or Fred isn’t particularly controversial.

Continuos development of our squad? Lad you’ve asked for a couple ‘solid’ midfielders - who the feck are we Stoke!

re: fanboyism/insert whatever internet trope here. Paul Pogba is a Manchester United player. He has been for the majority of his playing career. He has won multiple trophies for the club. As a fan of Manchester United I have seen enough of his matches to see that whilst he may not have set the world alight since his return he’s a talented footballer & oh yea, he plays for my club so a little support might not go amiss.

The man was the stand out midfielder today [as he has been for a while] yet you popped in here to say he’s not needed; if that ain’t sh*ting on your own player then I don’t know what is; rather a fanboy than oblivious.

[Breath]

 

[MikeKing]

I’m not going out of my way to sh*t on the team. It’s rather simple; is Rashford a better player than say. . . Dan James? Is that me saying Dan James is crap or doing what your blinkers won’t let you & calling it how it is.

What is telling is that you’ve shat on the man who was player of the tournament the last time we did something in a European competition; according to you he’s simply a ‘strong guy’ which is a rather dim equation for what he does for the team. Saying Pogba is better than McTominay &/or Fred isn’t particularly controversial.

Continuos development of our squad? Lad you’ve asked for a couple ‘solid’ midfielders - who the feck are we Stoke!

re: fanboyism/insert whatever internet trope here. Paul Pogba is a Manchester United player. He has been for the majority of his playing career. He has won multiple trophies for the club. As a fan of Manchester United I have seen enough of his matches to see that whilst he may not have set the world alight since his return he’s a talented footballer & oh yea, he plays for my club so a little support might not go amiss.

The man was the stand out midfielder today [as he has been for a while] yet you popped in here to say he’s not needed; if that ain’t sh*ting on your own player then I don’t know what is; rather a fanboy than oblivious.

[Breath]

Teams don't work that way. It's a team sport. You can sell Rashford for 100m and get a 50m winger, a 50m striker if that's what you want. Doesn't mean the team will be worse off automatically because you kept James as a backup. You could also sell James and buy Sancho and let him compete with Rashford, this might work too - but it might not also. We've seen enough of Pogba to know we can't rely on him, he isn't that player. As a squad option he is more than fine obviously but that's not really optimal. He is too good to be a bench player, imo but not good enough to build the team around again which is what it would take for him to become a regular and fulfil his potential.

I concede that the timing was a bit weird but the fact is Pogba wants out of the club already if you didn't know and while you might think of that as a standout performance - to me it's not. We all have different expectations from our players. He played as an attacker that worked hard defensively because he wants to win trophies - I respect that, but longterm it's silly wanting to sign him on if he is going to be used like that. Normally he doesn't fit in with our style of play and he makes mistakes defensively when playing as a midfielder and not playing as an attacker. He has given away penalties, handballs, missed penalties. He hasn't scored or assisted much in a very long time, stopped trying to take longshots after hitting the bar in his first season. It's really a shame.

Or wait, forget about that. You take Pogba out of United and we're Stoke, am I right?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Teams don't work that way. It's a team sport. You can sell Rashford for 100m and get a 50m winger, a 50m striker if that's what you want. Doesn't mean the team will be worse off automatically because you kept James as a backup. You could also sell James and buy Sancho and let him compete with Rashford, this might work too - but it might not also. We've seen enough of Pogba to know we can't rely on him, he isn't that player. As a squad option he is more than fine obviously but that's not really optimal. He is too good to be a bench player, imo but not good enough to build the team around again which is what it would take for him to become a regular and fulfil his potential.

I concede that the timing was a bit weird but the fact is Pogba wants out of the club already if you didn't know and while you might think of that as a standout performance - to me it's not. We all have different expectations from our players. He played as an attacker that worked hard defensively because he wants to win trophies - I respect that, but longterm it's silly wanting to sign him on if he is going to be used like that. Normally he doesn't fit in with our style of play and he makes mistakes defensively when playing as a midfielder and not playing as an attacker. He has given away penalties, handballs, missed penalties. He hasn't scored or assisted much in a very long time, stopped trying to take longshots after hitting the bar in his first season. It's really a shame.

Or wait, forget about that. You take Pogba out of United and we're Stoke, am I right?

The concept that we sell Pogba for £X & 100% of £X is recycled back into the squad [over a number of players or one player] has always struck me as overly optimistic given the regime we are under & their prior dealings.

We have DVdB sat on the bench getting few minutes whilst Pogba is here; when Pogba leaves [likely as you say], I suspect we’ll be fed the £40mil midfielder we currently have has now settled and will be ‘given a chance’ hence why I would rather keep the asset/Pogba than speculate he’ll be sold to fund other transfers as that’s not guaranteed. Football doesn’t work like that either.

Pogba was our standout midfielder yesterday in that game; that isn’t saying he had a standout performance in itself - he was the best midfielder in a United shirt was the point. I’d like to see him operating in other areas but given he was ‘shoehorned’ into the team playing RW/RM he was far more accomplished than his ‘solid’ counterparts which is another reason I prefer the player over other options we have.

I see it as we don’t play Liverpools every week & at some point I’d like to see the team progress to a point where our first thought isn’t about compensating for other teams strengths instead we look to play our best players in their best positions which I think you could do with a 3 man midfield of Bruno-Pogba-[Insert competent DM here]. Our reliance on the double pivot has to do with the fact that bar Matic [whose legs are no longer capable] we don’t have a singular DM that can protect our suspect CBs who need guarding more than I believe they should but that’s a whole other debate.

If you argument is Pogba isn’t good enough full stop then that’s a different debate but I argue that when you have Bruno & Pogba in your squad you build a team to let them flourish; you don’t send one out to the wing. Say we sold Pogba & bought the next Kevin de Bruyne, do we then have to bench Bruno in the big games for someone more ‘solid’? The issue you raise with Pogba will rear it’s head again unless Roy Keane plans on re-entering his prime. We’d literally need to strike gold to find someone to operate how we need in a pivot next to one of McFred to make the step we need imo.

You’re correct he’s given away penalties etc. but I thought you were against sh*ting on our players or do I have to go through the games where Fred dallied on the ball for us to concede goals.

He scored the winner against Burnley 6 days ago mate; though I’d agree his numbers really have taken a dip since he’s been deployed deeper generally.

I disagree with you that we don’t need Pogba but I see you make other fair points so I’m not going to pick holes in your post without looking at the nuance.

 

[reddevilchennai]

When he is fit and in the mood, he can be the best player on the pitch. He has been a world class form for last few matches.

The club should try all their best to make him sign a new deal.

With a new DM like Zakaria or Ndidi, Bruno and Pogba could work together much better than when then play with Fred or McT.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Would love to see a midfield of Fred/Matic, Pogba and Bruno, but in order to do that, you need CBs who won't crumble at the first sign of a runner or tricky forward - want to see us outplay and dominate some of these big teams we have to get more expansive especially if we want to compete in Europe in the future.

This is exactly what I keep saying.

We’ve wed ourselves to a double pivot because we want to protect our CBs but we don’t play Liverpool/PSG Away every week. A midfield 3 of Pogba-Bruno-[A proper DM] would allow us to get our 2 best players operating in the areas they thrive.

People argue that we’ve catered to Pogba for too long & it’s always, “he needs to play with” or “he needs to play there” but the same isn’t said if Fred who can’t operate in DM alone; McTom who has minimal passing ability & simply isn’t that great; Maguire who we have to play 2 DMs to babysit for - the list could go on.

The facts are we’ll sell Pogba & the issues will persist.

You shouldn’t be selling your most able players for limited performers as replacements.

 

[MikeKing]

This is exactly what I keep saying.

We’ve wed ourselves to a double pivot because we want to protect our CBs but we don’t play Liverpool/PSG Away every week. A midfield 3 of Pogba-Bruno-[A proper DM] would allow us to get our 2 best players operating in the areas they thrive.

People argue that we’ve catered to Pogba for too long & it’s always, “he needs to play with” or “he needs to play there” but the same isn’t said if Fred who can’t operate in DM alone; McTom who has minimal passing ability & simply isn’t that great; Maguire who we have to play 2 DMs to babysit for - the list could go on.

The facts are we’ll sell Pogba & the issues will persist.

You shouldn’t be selling your most able players for limited performers as replacements.

I do agree with that. If Pogba wanted to stay, and we got the perfect DM that is as tenacious as Fred and as press resistant as Matic, preferably capable of playmaking from deep with defensive nous enough to release Pogba as well then I would absolutely put my money on Pogba thriving. However, it doesn't matter because Pogba makes a ruckus out of the blue once I decide to trust him again and he wants to leave. Even disregarding that I find it much more likely we'll find someone that can compliment Fred for instance a lot easier than Pogba.

I remain the view that If Pogba was better at pressing and was a bit quicker sorting his feet out in tight spaces and with his back to goal we'd be sorted. He would actually play a lot right now if he could do it, even if he lacked a little bit of consistency, or with his goal stats drying up a bit. If he could play purposefully in midfield more often he would be a starter, no question about it he just isn't capable of doing that job well enough for whatever reason.

I also see you point about selling Pogba for something like 50m like I've seen some say, and in contrast to that we payed 40m for VdB. That doesn't sit right with me tbh. If Pogba would tell his agent to shut the feck up and stop being weird himself, I wouldn't mind just keeping him if nobody wants to buy him. I can see why fans just want to take the loss and move on though, but 50m is too low.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Will we even try to offer him contract or we already made a deal with him that he goes next summer?
We should try to keep him.at all cost

 

[Murray3007]

Will we even try to offer him contract or we already made a deal with him that he goes next summer?
We should try to keep him.at all cost

he has a little purple patch most seasons he has been here, enjoy it while it last's and we move on in the summer.

 

[Shiva87]

He is practically carrying the team over the last 3-4 games and getting us the winning goals now as well.

Bruno's dip in form isn't impacting us as much because of his resurgence. Long may this continue.

We really need our forwards back in form though. Martial, Rashford and Greenwood have just not hit any sort of goal scoring form so far. Bar Rashford, the others haven't even got to 10 goals and we are halfway through the season.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Whatever happens it’s win win at the moment.

 

[GoldanoGraham]

He’s definitely off this summer - I’m sure that’s all been agreed internally - he’s helping to push up some value at the moment which is great and having a decent patch but best for all concerned that he moves on this summer and we don’t have this soap opera to deal with every time things don’t go his or his agents way.....

what I will say is that he looks like he is going to give his all until the end though so that’s very decent especially given what his twat of an agent has been blurting out to the media in recent weeks

if we can get £55-£60m for him with a year left on his contract then that would be good business

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I do agree with that. If Pogba wanted to stay, and we got the perfect DM that is as tenacious as Fred and as press resistant as Matic, preferably capable of playmaking from deep with defensive nous enough to release Pogba as well then I would absolutely put my money on Pogba thriving. However, it doesn't matter because Pogba makes a ruckus out of the blue once I decide to trust him again and he wants to leave. Even disregarding that I find it much more likely we'll find someone that can compliment Fred for instance a lot easier than Pogba.

I remain the view that If Pogba was better at pressing and was a bit quicker sorting his feet out in tight spaces and with his back to goal we'd be sorted. He would actually play a lot right now if he could do it, even if he lacked a little bit of consistency, or with his goal stats drying up a bit. If he could play purposefully in midfield more often he would be a starter, no question about it he just isn't capable of doing that job well enough for whatever reason.

I also see you point about selling Pogba for something like 50m like I've seen some say, and in contrast to that we payed 40m for VdB. That doesn't sit right with me tbh. If Pogba would tell his agent to shut the feck up and stop being weird himself, I wouldn't mind just keeping him if nobody wants to buy him. I can see why fans just want to take the loss and move on though, but 50m is too low.

Can’t disagree with this.

The balance between Pogba’s genius & his lack of industrious elements is an issue we’ve never solved.

That said, if we played a flatter 3 in midfield & flanked a decent DM with Pogba+Bruno would that negate some issues? I think so, you’d be getting Bruno’s industry slightly further back & a DM that can be trusted.

OgS seems to have clocked that asking Pogba to sit back as a DM is an accident waiting to happen recently so hopefully those issues aren’t exacerbated anytime soon.

Will we even try to offer him contract or we already made a deal with him that he goes next summer?
We should try to keep him.at all cost

We fecking better be.

If he goes we aren’t spending on a replacement, we’ll be sold DVdB who regardless of what he showed at Ajax can’t get off the bench in games that matter which is shocking this far into the season.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Hopefully we offer him a new contract and he renews.

 

[Green_Red]

When he is fit and in the mood, he can be the best player on the pitch. He has been a world class form for last few matches.

The club should try all their best to make him sign a new deal.

With a new DM like Zakaria or Ndidi, Bruno and Pogba could work together much better than when then play with Fred or McT.

I agree, when he is in form he is an absolutely world class midfielder. The only problems are his propensity to flirt moves away and his mouthy agent. If we were going to sign him up to a new contract, which I don't think he'd sign anyway, it would have to be on the condition he changes agent. Cant see that happening so I'm resigned to see him leave for Real this summer.

The money would be well spent on Ndidi imo.

 

[TheRedHearted]

My guess is if we win the league he leaves, and if we don’t he leaves. But I’m hoping we win and his price tag pays off.

 

[Acole9]

He's definitely off in the summer. The form he's in will hopefully play to our advantage.

 

[dinostar77]

For those who think hes off this summer ( i include myself in that camp). Where is he gonna go? Madrid? How are they gonna fund Pogba, Mbappe and Alaba (the latter his and his agents substantial signing on fees). Madrid have financial problems and their spending is restricted by La Liga rules.

PSG? Leonardo gave an interview recently where he admitted Messi was their no1 target this summer. Seeing as Citys offer last summer was a package worth £700mil to Messi PSG wont have much left to spend on anyone else of they get Messi ahead of City this summer.

Juventus? Crippled by their wage bill. Couldnt fund a move for Pogba unless Utd significantly reduced the price for Pogba. No way the glazers or woodward would do that as history has shown us they refuse to take a loss on a player.

 

[Alemar]

He's definitely off in the summer. The form he's in will hopefully play to our advantage.

And where will he go? No options available outside of EPL

 

[cyberman]

For those who think hes off this summer ( i include myself in that camp). Where is he gonna go? Madrid? How are they gonna fund Pogba, Mbappe and Alaba (the latter his and his agents substantial signing on fees). Madrid have financial problems and their spending is restricted by La Liga rules.

PSG? Leonardo gave an interview recently where he admitted Messi was their no1 target this summer. Seeing as Citys offer last summer was a package worth £700mil to Messi PSG wont have much left to spend on anyone else of they get Messi ahead of City this summer.

Juventus? Crippled by their wage bill. Couldnt fund a move for Pogba unless Utd significantly reduced the price for Pogba. No way the glazers or woodward would do that as history has shown us they refuse to take a loss on a player.

And all worse teams than us imo. He has what he needs right here

 

[arthurka]

His only real option is PSG, Real are in a terrible state Zidane is starting to get really wobbly there.
Juve well they are not going to pay that kind of money, might offer player exchange and their position is not better than us.

 

[Judas]

It’s PSG or Juve with Ronaldo coming home. In terms of him leaving this summer that’s all I see options wise.

 

[Andycoleno9]

If he is off (and i guess he is sadly) then it is PSG who needs creative midfielder or Juve where Pirlo wants him. Both can fund him and will do it without question.

Madrid is a not option anymore, i guess.

 

[Red_toad]

If he is off (and i guess he is sadly) then it is PSG who needs creative midfielder or Juve where Pirlo wants him. Both can fund him and will do it without question.

Madrid is a not option anymore, i guess.

Juve are broke, they’d need to offload wages before they can take on Pogba‘, then they’d need convince United to accept some makeweights as part of the deal to bring the payment down. I’d doubt Pogba would want to join PSG, so it’s probably a free to Real in 2022...

 

[bosnian_red]

He's definitely off in the summer as long as teams pay up. It's a win win win situation right now, as him playing well obviously helps us but also silences the critics he had, answering doubts if he still had it, and increases the price so Raiola is happy. The situation as it was helped nobody.

 

[Random Task]

Juve are broke, they’d need to offload wages before they can take on Pogba‘, then they’d need convince United to accept some makeweights as part of the deal to bring the payment down. I’d doubt Pogba would want to join PSG, so it’s probably a free to Real in 2022...

Doubtful.

We don't give away prized assets like Paul Pogba who, even in a covid-affected market, will fetch upwards of £50 million. PSG is his most likely destination I feel.

 

[Matthew84!]

If Utd some how win the league I think he'll stay, he wants to win trophies and he's finally playing well, get him to sign a new contract now so he can't leave on the cheap.

 

[Red_toad]

Doubtful.

We don't give away prized assets like Paul Pogba who, even in a covid-affected market, will fetch upwards of £50 million. PSG is his most likely destination I feel.

Once he’s out of contract there is no giving away, they’ve gone! 12 months of faking love for the club will be a walk in the park for him. Oh and 90 million pounds? No one can afford that right now, not even PSG, as Real nor Barca will be giving them big buck for their star players. He won’t go to PSG as it’s not enough of a challenge, in my opinion, but we shall see.

 

[JJ12]

I think he’ll stay in the end

 

[Fridge chutney]

Who can and will offer him as much salary as we can?

If we offer him £400k/week and strengthen in other areas during the transfer window, I think he'll stay.

 

[RedorDead21]

Fine but what If Pogba then came out saying, he wants to fight for this club and stay and is excited about the future. If that followed a league win in which he played a key role would you still not want him to stay? (I get that’s a lot of what ifs!)

personally no I wouldn’t. I’d rather someone who isn’t as up and down. He seemed to come alive once someone else had dragged us up the table. I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t be having the impact now if not for the finishing line is in sight...

 

[Adam-Utd]

I still think Raiola going public was a play to get Woodward to cave in to their demands.

He obviously wants to be paid as much as De Gea, but with Covid and his poor run of fitness/form at the time I think we pulled away from talks at that point.

If we remember the last time he spoke before he said talks were going well and expected to sign a new deal - then suddenly it fell apart.

Pogba is definitely playing for his future, either here or elsewhere, but I think we will want to keep him. Who else could we sign that's better?

The only issue is will he keep this level up once he signs a new deal - but I don't think Pogba has ever personally played badly on purpose, he just has off days.

 

[Random Task]

Once he’s out of contract there is no giving away, they’ve gone! 12 months of faking love for the club will be a walk in the park for him. Oh and 90 million pounds? No one can afford that right now, not even PSG, as Real nor Barca will be giving them big buck for their star players. He won’t go to PSG as it’s not enough of a challenge, in my opinion, but we shall see.

Shrewd as he is, can you really see Ed allowing any of his players to run down their contract and leave on a free? That'll never happen, mate.

Raiola has been quiet recently, indicating an agreement has been reached between both parties allowing Pogba to leave in the summer.

That's just my opinion, nothing concrete.

 

[Sultan]

I Think with just 12 Months remaining on his contract (6 if you count he can sign for any foreign club in January 2022 then I can't see clubs offering more than 35/40 million. He'd be better off just waiting and rather get a hefty signing on fee along with his agent.

 

[redshaw]

Better he plays the more a club wanting to sign will want him sooner than waiting another year. Hopefully he can help us this season and get his move.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

If he is off (and i guess he is sadly) then it is PSG who needs creative midfielder or Juve where Pirlo wants him. Both can fund him and will do it without question.

Madrid is a not option anymore, i guess.

PSG please. Perfect league.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Juve are broke, they’d need to offload wages before they can take on Pogba‘, then they’d need convince United to accept some makeweights as part of the deal to bring the payment down. I’d doubt Pogba would want to join PSG, so it’s probably a free to Real in 2022...

Don't underestimate PSG. Winning trophies with huge salary and living in nice city. That is everything what player can ask.
It is "only" French league? So what? Pogba played in Italy for biggest club and in England for biggest club. If Real will not be an option, PSG is perfect for him.
All what he needs in his career now are trophies. And PSG is club for it.

 

[RedorDead21]

Man Utd in the pst 5 years was the stage to cement himself as one of the world's best?

By playing with a bunch of mid-table calibre players? What are you talking about?

we bought another player who took us to the top of the table in 6 months. So Pogba is only of use once that hard work is in place and done by other players?

 

[Acole9]

And where will he go? No options available outside of EPL

What makes you think that?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

What makes you think that?

close to zero chance we would sell him to a PL club. Real, PDG, Juve are all options.