besides the forwards, Rafael has the most quality and it was evident today. His passing and dribbling are excellent in tight situations.
Rafael da Silva | 2010-14 Performances
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Strange timing for a post like this considering he was one of our best players today. He is far from average going forward.
Really? He's still good going forward, we're just generally shit going forward as a team. He must get into the positions he did last season one third as much this season.
I agree. Arnautovic and Assaidi had acres of space down our right.
Is he? He's a below par passer, decent dribbling, his final ball is a lot worse than a couple of seasons ago when he looked a good crosser. Even then thats a worse combination than a lot of fullbacks in the league.
Great game from him today
He's very average coming forward and being ok compared to a lot of teammates who were awful isn't something to sing about
How often do we even see him put a ball into the box now? It's hardly much of a criticism anyway, considering how outdated this approach is. I wouldn't say his passing is below par either.
At least he looked like he gave a shit and was aggressive out there. Too many players just playing soft and taking the safe route.
Don't think Rafael was 100% fit either hence why he was on the bench.
Don't think Rafael was 100% fit either hence why he was on the bench.
Anautovic and Assaidi had acres of space because we were chasing a goal or two. Rafael is our only player down that right side with any pace - he has to bomb forward and catch them high on the pitch. He's still very good, but he needs to think twice now and settle a bit more. He's too aggressive these days. I think he defended well when he defended, but I think that it is only natural that there will be space when he attacks - I'm not sure what else people expect.
When Carrick had to play as CB, our midfield went to pieces - Rooney was awful and provided no defensive cover, and Cleverley was basically all over the place not doing a job. If you just want Rafael to sit back and not attack, then fine. But if you want him to be an attacking outlet, then he needs cover when going forwards.
When Carrick had to play as CB, our midfield went to pieces - Rooney was awful and provided no defensive cover, and Cleverley was basically all over the place not doing a job. If you just want Rafael to sit back and not attack, then fine. But if you want him to be an attacking outlet, then he needs cover when going forwards.
Standards have fallen if we're saying he's still very good going forward. Last season, that was undoubtedly true. This season though, not for me.
I'd completely disagree then, he often gets his pass wrong and the fact other players are also poor crossers doesn't excuse him
He's the absolute least of our problems besides our strikers.
He wasn't our best player today, nor is he even properly good enough really, but he is at least fighting to win the games. His work rate and running are excellent, and he always looks to go forward and penetrate. A proper united full back. Some of the lads could learn a lot from him. Just like a lot of the rest of the team though, he lacks confidence in his own ability, or rather has now seen that he and the rest don't have the top level ability and the steadfast belief that Fergie gave them has all but disappeared.
This is why people give him too much credit. Because theres no doubt he tries hard and doesnt give up which are admirable qualities.
However this alone will only get you so far if you are struggling to defend decently and dont come forward with real conviction
Someone like Bardsley has the same character qualities and it doesnt mean he's good enough to play right back for us
I think he's been poor defensively this season. His blood and thunder playing style sometimes gives him too much leeway.
EDIT - Ekeke beat me to it
EDIT - Ekeke beat me to it
We lost. So it's a case of "let's blame everyone!!!".
This is generally fair. Very overrated on here going forward. His passing, dribbling and final ball is very average. It's his power and determination that makes him an attacking threat.
He isn't as good as in previous seasons. When he attacks he's just simply average in terms of creating things, I mean he can run with the ball but after that run there is next to nothing created. His crossing has also gotten weirdly worse. Defensively he's ok but also a little overrated.
I should add that at his best a year or so ago he was very good for us, both a good crosser and a good tackler. The point is that right now, he's come back from injury and his tackling has been awful, he's been caught trying to chase the ball a lot or out of position like the young Rafael and going forward he's very limited compared to the top fullbacks in the league, the likes of Baines, Coleman, Kolarov, etc - all players who, when he first came to the club, he didn't look any less talented than these kinds of players. He had natural talent on the ball and we would have hoped that he could become one of the finest attacking fullbacks around. But at this point in time he delivers less coming forward than these players who he looked more talented than as a youngster.
Coming forward he's comparible to the rest of the fullbacks in the league and thats fine. Its just a bit dissappointing because there was a time when it looked like he was going to be a lot better than that.
Coming forward he's comparible to the rest of the fullbacks in the league and thats fine. Its just a bit dissappointing because there was a time when it looked like he was going to be a lot better than that.
Even though he has calmed down a fair bit I think he's still to erratic or unpredictable when it comes to defending, hard to trust him and these days he just doesn't offer as much as he should or as he has done in the past when going forward. More often than not he'll make a driving run forward and lose the ball his crosses if he does manage to whip one in could be a lot better as well.
Thought he was good. Always very tough coming off the bench so early when you are not prepared.
Absolutely. And goalkeeper, of course.
He's very good, and also still very young, so he's got alot to improve on, and will still make mistakes.
Some serious kneejerking goes on in here after a loss. Any good player who had a quiet/poor game is branded as 'overrated'. We've been awful as a unit for pretty much the whole season. And, as you say, Rafael is amongst the very least of our problems. He's first pick. He'd be first pick for just about anyone in the PL, rivalled only by Zabaleta, IMO.
Strange that a few of you are criticizing him after today. He had a good game I thought, more in line with last season's games rather then his recent loss of form.
I don't think he's declined or anything, I just think he's lost form because the rest of the team has been a mess and the defence has been all over the place. Its hard for a right back to still look good when the center backs are falling like flies and your left back gets caught out so often, and then you also have to go forward and make an impact. He understandably lost form this season, but I have full faith in him that he'll get back to his best once we get back to being good again.
There are a few players who are absolutely imperative for our future, but he's one of them. So talented and so good at such a young age, and his attitude and determination is great. De Gea, Rafael, Mata, Januzaj and Rooney/RVP are the main players we should look to build around, maybe you can include either Jones or Smalling in there too. The other places are all up for grabs really and we could do with strengthening.
I don't think he's declined or anything, I just think he's lost form because the rest of the team has been a mess and the defence has been all over the place. Its hard for a right back to still look good when the center backs are falling like flies and your left back gets caught out so often, and then you also have to go forward and make an impact. He understandably lost form this season, but I have full faith in him that he'll get back to his best once we get back to being good again.
There are a few players who are absolutely imperative for our future, but he's one of them. So talented and so good at such a young age, and his attitude and determination is great. De Gea, Rafael, Mata, Januzaj and Rooney/RVP are the main players we should look to build around, maybe you can include either Jones or Smalling in there too. The other places are all up for grabs really and we could do with strengthening.
I've just been reading an article from Daily Express in which Rafael is listed amongst nine other players why they believe will be sold this summer, to what extent if any do you share that view?
I do think that his level of performance has regressed this season, however with 12/13 having been so encouraging i am inclined to attribute this to actions of the Moyes regime.
I do think that his level of performance has regressed this season, however with 12/13 having been so encouraging i am inclined to attribute this to actions of the Moyes regime.
It has "sort of" regressed only because of the injuries which have kept him out for extended periods. He is still a good player. Don't let these stupid dailies hogwash you into believing nonsense.
He's been in a poor run of form but he's struggled with injuries and there has been a generally under-performing and often changing defence that he's had playing alongside him. To suggest selling him is just stupid.
The last game was the only game in league he didn't started but was available (not counting the games when he just returned from the injury and wasn't fit). I don't think that there is any true in reports who say that Moyes doesn't rate him or something like that.
The papers look to see who's out of the team, even overlook that some may be injured, and assume these guys are out of favour. Rafael was on the bench at the weekend, which was probably enough for some to guess that we now want to sell him. Plus his brother has recently left so another reason to speculate. As soon as the team gets their confidence back hopefully a lot of these silly rumours will go away.
He's okay but needs to get towards his best again and stay fit. He's said he wont leave but if he doesnt shape up there are a handful of players we might look to sign to strengthen the position. He's still young but he needs to get back on an upwards trajectory, he's been on a downward slope instead
Like our whole team. Wonder why...
Am I the only one who finds this criticism of him extremely over the top?
Agreed, he has appeared very stretched as of late when defending, but how many full-backs are protected by the likes of Cleverley? Don't forget, Valencia has also (surprisingly) been very bad at the back this season, being little to no help to Rafael, and when he hasn't been playing, we've had either Januzaj (who does very little work at the back) or Mata (of late) in front of him. Going forward, I agree with those who say that his crossing has mysteriously deteriorated, but I think we have short memories - for the majority of the first half of this season, the entire forum had a general consensus that he was the best crosser of a moving ball in the squad (or thereabouts). Playing behind Valencia doesn't help one bit, either.
If we see a change to our football, he will benefit hugely going forward and show us his quality once more - it has only been extremely sub par in the last month or so. Check the matchday threads from before, for proof. Admittedly, his defending is his own fault (to a large degree) but everyone goes through blips - he's proven his quality over a long period of time already, so he can definitely go back to that level (and stay there) again. An ever-changing back-line (that is always shit no matter the combination) only hinders him, as well.
Long story short - he is clearly out of form and he does have himself to blame, but the shower of @#&* around him isn't helping. It's probably just a dip in form, there is no Torres situation here. In my opinion, he's the least of our worries right now.
Agreed, he has appeared very stretched as of late when defending, but how many full-backs are protected by the likes of Cleverley? Don't forget, Valencia has also (surprisingly) been very bad at the back this season, being little to no help to Rafael, and when he hasn't been playing, we've had either Januzaj (who does very little work at the back) or Mata (of late) in front of him. Going forward, I agree with those who say that his crossing has mysteriously deteriorated, but I think we have short memories - for the majority of the first half of this season, the entire forum had a general consensus that he was the best crosser of a moving ball in the squad (or thereabouts). Playing behind Valencia doesn't help one bit, either.
If we see a change to our football, he will benefit hugely going forward and show us his quality once more - it has only been extremely sub par in the last month or so. Check the matchday threads from before, for proof. Admittedly, his defending is his own fault (to a large degree) but everyone goes through blips - he's proven his quality over a long period of time already, so he can definitely go back to that level (and stay there) again. An ever-changing back-line (that is always shit no matter the combination) only hinders him, as well.
Long story short - he is clearly out of form and he does have himself to blame, but the shower of @#&* around him isn't helping. It's probably just a dip in form, there is no Torres situation here. In my opinion, he's the least of our worries right now.
He's been crap. Hopefully it's just a case of injuries interrupting his progress rather than a sign of anything more long term. His position will be under threat though if he doesn't buck up his ideas.
No he hasn't.
Disagree with a lot on here it seems. He's been a solid 7/10 this season despite injuries not helping him. He's had absolute dogshit in front and beside him for 18 months and still often looks like out most potent threat.
This season we've been losing or drawing far more often so he is being more aggressive . People equating this to him just forgetting how to defend are miles wide of the mark. Doesn't help either that we are often lumping it forward instead of utilising him to play out from the back.
This season we've been losing or drawing far more often so he is being more aggressive . People equating this to him just forgetting how to defend are miles wide of the mark. Doesn't help either that we are often lumping it forward instead of utilising him to play out from the back.
Looking back at this thread from the end of last season it is incredibly annoying to be in this situation with Rafael, this years should have been a time of consolidation even with the disruption caused by injuries.
The rotating of the CBs and possible disaffection of our more experienced defenders can't be helping matters, training methods too perhaps.
The rotating of the CBs and possible disaffection of our more experienced defenders can't be helping matters, training methods too perhaps.
He's never been the best positionally, so when the team as a whole struggles his defensive frailties gets exposed in a way they would never do when we're dominating.
Also our organization at the back has been shit the whole season, for some reason. That was supposed to be one of Moyes's strengths, that his teams were hard to beat and difficult to score against.
Also our organization at the back has been shit the whole season, for some reason. That was supposed to be one of Moyes's strengths, that his teams were hard to beat and difficult to score against.
Another one who's been Moyes'ed unfortunately. Still think he's a top fullback and would hate to see him go.
This should take off.Weird recent posts here. I don't really see the issue with Rafael this year.
That said, I've never rated him as highly as some. I think he's a good player who doesn't look out of place in a supposedly top team. Others think he's one of the best full backs in the world.
That said, I've never rated him as highly as some. I think he's a good player who doesn't look out of place in a supposedly top team. Others think he's one of the best full backs in the world.
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