Should start vs the Saints if Rooney's not healthy
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What is he expected to do in the last 15 mins when we are defending a lead and have Darren Fletcher in midfield to create absolutely nothing? Hernandez is a sub, a very good one who is usually better as a sub than a starter, whereas absolutely world class players like Falcao are usually not good as subs, at least not for 15 mins when he has hardly played at all in the last year. At least give him 30 mins to get into the game.
Players like Mata and Herrera usually need the first 15 to 20 mins in games or even a full half to improve, but of course Falcao should do all in the last 15 mins.
Players like Mata and Herrera usually need the first 15 to 20 mins in games or even a full half to improve, but of course Falcao should do all in the last 15 mins.
If you are against a player, you are against him and won't give up, right? First it was Kagawa, then Mata, then RvP, then Herrera and now Falcao. DDG is also on your list often enough. Di Maria will probably be next ...
I thought in the Hull game he looked lively when he came on. Yes he missed the big chance that came his way, but as I said, the rest of the team looked like they were coasting at that point.
I was against the Falcao signing in the first place and thought we should have kept Welbeck (and still do, to an extent) but there is no point bringing in Falcao and then expecting him to do great things with 10 minute sub appearances. Some strikers are good as impact subs, some arent. I remember in Fergie's book he spoke about Solskjaer in this respect - OGS could sit on a bench for 80 minutes but he wouldnt be snoozing, he would be studying the opposition defenders, noting their strengths and weaknesses so that when he came on, he could exploit them. This is why he was such a great impact sub.
Some strikers (I would say most strikers) simply dont have that capability, and are much better performers when they play from the start of the game. I think Falcao falls into this category.
Shocking the way I criticise footballers that don't play well (and praise them when they do) on a website dedicated to talking about football, isnt it? Has the world gone mad?
You just made that up, didn't you?
Don't suppose you have some examples to back it up?
You might also want to take a moment to think about Aguero's substitute appearances for City...
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We saw last night why he isn't starting, looked well off the pace and pretty rusty, there is no way he can start against a Southampton and he probably needs a game or two in the reserves. We need to keep momentum and need the points so he should probably remain 4th choice until he is fitter.
Well usually world class players are starters so there are not many examples, but I remember both Rooney and Tevez not performing as well for us when they had some sub appearances compared to their starting performances.
And as I said Herrera and Mata (while not absolutely world class) also usually need some mins to get into their rythm, whereas Chicharito or Ole could come in and score within minutes.
It's different for Falcao and Hernandez. Hernandez wasn't proven world class. Falcao is proven world class and we paid a shit ton to loan him and will have to pay 40 mil or whatever to sign. You gotta at least give him a start once he's fit, his reputation has warranted him that chance at the very least.
You don't sign a proven world class striker and make him an impact sub. He'll start cause wilson is not ahead of him in the pecking order so clearly Falcao isn't match fit yet. He'll start soon enough and prove his class.
Nope, but shocking you never criticise some footballers, and shocking how you keep criticising the same footballers again and agsin and trying to find something negative to say about them all the time a la Roy Keane.
Not true at all. They often had a big impact coming off the bench. It's how Tevez forced his way into the first XI towards the end of his final season with us.
Aguero's someone else who is world class and devastating off the bench.
To be fair to you, it does seem like quite an arsey comment. Probably some leftover fallout from the Welbeck sale methinks...
I do agree he'll be starting soon enough. The only point I'm making is that his poor performance last night can't be put down to the length of his cameo. Much more likely to be down to him playing so little football recently. Hence I'd have reservations about starting him next Monday. Would prefer to start him after a sub appearance where he looks way sharper than he did against Stoke.
I remember it differently with Tevez and Rooney, both usually needed time to get into the game in order to be at their best.
As with Aguero the WC and a couple of games last season in the PL (The late Liverpool game comes into mind) have shown that he is not nearly as good as a sub as he usually is when he starts. Of course this doesn't mean he turns into a pub player as a sub.
? We were both against the Welbeck sale so I am absolutely sure Welbeck has nothing to do with this.
Edit: Or I misunderstood your post and you didn't mean leftover fallout from the Welbeck sales from me.
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Have you considered that maybe he is not world class anymore, and/or had a career changing injury?
Hope he gets a start against Southampton. He's looked really up for it whenever he's played and I think he'll be desperate to score against them. Didn't have a great cameo against Stoke but any player can have a bad 15 minute spell.
You're like a dog with a bone
I really hope he gets fit and starts firing just to see you eat your words
You're like a dog with a bone
I really hope he gets fit and starts firing just to see you eat your words
I dont need to eat anything
. I suggested from the start that he would be a great option if it was only a loan deal but that he may not be the Falcao we saw at Atletico for a number of reasons, so he would have to have a phenomenal second half of the season to change that. People got far too cocky back then, its only fair we call it for what it has been so far.
People still calling for him to start against Southampton
Is everyone just completely ignoring what they're seeing in front of their eyes and saying he should start because he's called Falcao? I geninly don't get it.
Is everyone just completely ignoring what they're seeing in front of their eyes and saying he should start because he's called Falcao? I geninly don't get it.
People still calling for him to start against Southampton
Is everyone just completely ignoring what they're seeing in front of their eyes and saying he should start because he's called Falcao? I geninly don't get it.
It's not exactly a laughable notion. His movement looks lively and his finishing is just as good as Van Persie's. Between Falcao, Van Persie and Wilson I'd go for Falcao if Van Gaal thinks he's fit enough.
Which he clearly doesn't.
Yes but you see interestingly enough players get fitter with time and training so he might be fit enough by the weekend.
He's played two 15 minute cameo's in the last month. He won't be fit enough by the weekend.
I hope he comes good but he's beginning to look like the gamble may not have been a wise one. The renties got Costa for £32million, which is looking like the bargain of the season.
It's the fact that his movement looks good and so does his hold up play. He isn't going to forget how to finish either. He will score goals.
Oh I didn't know you were a doctor who knows that his injury has been career changing.
Maybe you give him a bit of time (which everyone needs after that kind of injury) before deciding if it has been career changing or not and if he is world class anymore or not.
it's only just December and you're already writing him off? plenty of time left for him to prove himself, which I'm sure he will.
I dont need to eat anything
People got far too cocky back then, its only fair we call it for what it has been so far.
These are the sort of posts that used to come and bite you in the arse. Njred and Dumbstar are pros.
Give the man a break for Eric's sake.
He's come to the hardest league in the world after a very serious injury. He took a few games to get accustomed to the PL but he's already shown excellent movement and had some flashes of brilliance (e.g. volley against Leicester). He then got his first and the winning goal against Everton which was a massive goal in our season - the turning point you could say. Now he's picked up a couple of small, unrelated, injuries and has had a few cameo appearances since where he could even have had a goal vs Hull but for a great block.
You only have to watch his interview before the QPR game to see what a genuine guy he is and the respect he has for our club. You can also tell he is trying his heart out when he is on the pitch. So yeah, again, give the guy a break.
He's come to the hardest league in the world after a very serious injury. He took a few games to get accustomed to the PL but he's already shown excellent movement and had some flashes of brilliance (e.g. volley against Leicester). He then got his first and the winning goal against Everton which was a massive goal in our season - the turning point you could say. Now he's picked up a couple of small, unrelated, injuries and has had a few cameo appearances since where he could even have had a goal vs Hull but for a great block.
You only have to watch his interview before the QPR game to see what a genuine guy he is and the respect he has for our club. You can also tell he is trying his heart out when he is on the pitch. So yeah, again, give the guy a break.
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Thank you for showing some patience and for not reaching for conclusions already. Reading the posts in this thread, it has been very surprising to me to see how some people have been so critical of him. Maybe people had unreasonably high expectations when we signed him, but his start so far really shouldn't be too surprising. He was already recovering from an awful injury when he got here, and like you said, this is not the ideal league to come to, for someone with an injury like that. He has yet to gain full fitness, and the calf injuries that he picked up didn't help. He clearly looks rusty (especially with his finishing), but his all around game for the most part has been very solid, and in cases like these, rust goes away with a consistent run of games. He hasn't had that yet.
It's different if Falcao's season here fails because of his injuries and consequently missing games. But I'll be very surprised if his season fails because of his actual play, even though he stayed fit. I don't know why some people have already come to the conclusion that he isn't good enough anymore, and that the move has already failed. We have a long way to go in this season.
He's done nothing that warrants him starting ahead of any of our strikers, Wilson included. If Rooney is injured, Wilson should keep his place in the team.
All our experienced strikers have already peaked. Falcao, RVP and Rooney had their best seasons 2-3 years ago. They are still capable of some world class performances (think of RVP against Spain, he was stunning in that game) but they do not come often enough. In short, they are not world class any more. Falcao struggled to impress in France already before the injury. Rooney was world class in 2011. Since then he's been too inconsistent to call him world class, albeit he's still very good. (If you want to know what it is to be a world class striker, look at Aguero, that will suffice.)
We will need to sign a world class striker in the next summer window if we want to regain our position as one of the top top teams in Europe. Hopefully, Wilson will develop quicky and will surpass our expectations.
We will need to sign a world class striker in the next summer window if we want to regain our position as one of the top top teams in Europe. Hopefully, Wilson will develop quicky and will surpass our expectations.
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People in here need to relax. Last year we all wanted Fellaini out, now he looks like the beast he was at Everton.
Falcao has barley played for a whole year. Of course his fitness/form isnt up to scratch. Also he hasnt really had time to adapt to the league either.
Unless he turns out to be a croock, im confident he will turn things around eventually.
Im also confident LvG is doing the right thing. Hes not leaving a world class striker on the bench because its fun. He just came back from injury and needs to be esased into it. Better to be cautious than too risk him getting sidelined again
Falcao has barley played for a whole year. Of course his fitness/form isnt up to scratch. Also he hasnt really had time to adapt to the league either.
Unless he turns out to be a croock, im confident he will turn things around eventually.
Im also confident LvG is doing the right thing. Hes not leaving a world class striker on the bench because its fun. He just came back from injury and needs to be esased into it. Better to be cautious than too risk him getting sidelined again
You couldn't be more wrong lumping Rooney in the same category as the other two. He's the same age now as Van Persie was when he was at his peak. You're relentlessly biased against him, mind you, so that's no great surprise.
You're are relentlessly biased about Rooney, so that reply is no great surprise.
It's stipid to refer to RvP's age, for players may peak quite differently, there are countless examples about players who were better at 22 or 24 than at 29. When was the last time when Rooney was world class over the course of a whole season?
Rooney is looking excellent this season, and his style has slightly changed. There's no reason he won't maintain this type of level for a few years.
Seeing as nobody can even agree on the definition of world class, I'm fecked if I'm going to get into a debate about exactly when he hit this mythical level of performance for an entire season.
What I will say (repeat, in fact) is that it's fecking stupid to lump him in the same category as RvP. One of them has been a shadow of his usual self for over 18 months. The other has been arguably our best player, for the vast majority of that same period of time.
Falcao is, at least, the same age and it's far too early to know whether or not he's in decline, so it's not quite so outright daft to group them together but Falcao still has it all to prove he can get back to his best, whereas Rooney's performances leave no doubt that he's very close to it right now.
The meaning of 'world class' may be vague but it is clear that Rooney has not been one of the top 5 or even 10 forwards in world football over the last 2 seasons. He was a top top forward some years ago, not any more. Back then he was in the discussion about the best players in the world. Not any more. Actually, RVP and Falcao had great seasons as strikers more recently than Rooney.
It's fecking stupid to deny that Rooney's status as a striker has declined since 2011. That's fecking stupid, Pogue. No one would mention him as one of the top 5 strikers in the world over the last 2-3 seasons, except for some of his fanboys, I guess. He has clearly declined. He is still a very good player and is currently more useful than the other two. But I'm talking about him as a striker. Even LVG indicated that he tried him as a striker and wasn't satisfied with his perfomances as a striker.
He will retire as a legend, no doubt about that. But let's not be blind about his decline. He was one of the top 5, maybe even top 3 strikers in the world several years ago. That's not true any more. He would make top 15 only on reputation.
You're talking up his peak and talking down his current status to fit your narrative. He's always been a tier below the very best in the world, which is where he sits now. One of the very best strikers around but not quite up there with the goal per game freaks like Aguero, Messi, Ronaldo and (while he was at Liverpool) Suarez.
I've no doubt he could get similar numbers to his most prolific season for United if he played a whole season as a number 9 but right now he's a victim of a combination of his own versatility, an unbalanced squad and a manager who seems incredibly reluctant to drop the captain of a national team that he steered to a WC semi-final.
You've been desperate to write him off for years but his performances so far this season (not to mention his goal or assist/game average in a car-crash of a season in 2013/14) are those of a player who is either at - or very close to - his peak right now. It's simply absurd to lump him alongside Van Persie as two strikers who both peaked 2 or 3 years ago.
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