If football statistics were a person, luckyspurs would need a restraining order.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 29
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Falcao's definitely been a bit of a let down, but this is a fantastic case of reading into, or using too much stats without any context, and particularly without watching either player much, this season.
Suarez, put into context of the season, the team, the chances, has definitely been more disappointing than Falcao. I don't even think any of our Barca posters would disagree with that.
The correct answer, as with most cases on this forum, is somewhat "in the middle".
Falcao's not been the same player he was (here's to hoping he gets back to that level, even if it is somewhere else) but he's also not been "shit". If you've been watching us play these past couple months, you would instantly realise that. Of course a striker like Aguero or Sanchez would make a difference to our forward line - it is not a secret that we are unbalanced and more importantly, lacking pace. Falcao, Rooney and RvP are essentially all 3 "too similar" IMO. & that's reason enough to not spend silly money on signing Falcao.
But our team atm, has issues all over the place. From formation, to form, to tactics, to balance. Our 1 major issue though, is that we're essentially not building our team around getting the best out of any 1 of our players and that's partly because the manager hasn't settled into his best XI yet either.
I'm not saying he's been great, I'm saying he hasn't suddenly turned to shit. And his inefficiency in front of goal has been compounded by a lack of adequate service. You can say he gets x chances per game, but I've watched every United game this season, and I can think of about 3 clear-cut chances Falcao missed but should have scored.
I can think of 3 in that Spurs match alone.
Every time I see luckyspurs as the last poster in a thread, I know it's going to be a list of fecking stats.
These stats imply that every chance in the box is exactly the same, from the exact same angle, with the exact same sight on goal. One chance in the box could be a one on one. Another could be from an angle infront of 3 defenders. It's meaningless to summarise them as all the same.
Bollocks to stats. Let's just watch the games and make a judgement from what actually happens, and not just a bunch of numbers.
These stats imply that every chance in the box is exactly the same, from the exact same angle, with the exact same sight on goal. One chance in the box could be a one on one. Another could be from an angle infront of 3 defenders. It's meaningless to summarise them as all the same.
Bollocks to stats. Let's just watch the games and make a judgement from what actually happens, and not just a bunch of numbers.
He's had as much service as Costa, Pelle, Austin and Bony and more than Kane, Berahino, Ings and Sanchez. Only Aguero's getting more chances in the box per match. He's just missing the target too much and when it is on target it's got no power or placement on it.
Stop blaming attacking midfielders for the strikers (or at least the ones not scoring enough; Rooney's been fine and Van Persie alright) and the system for the attacking midfielders.
Apart from the ball Mata played into him, I can't think of another genuine clear-cut opportunity. RVP was more profligate against Spurs.
Would you mind running Rooney's and RVP's goals+assists per minute? I'd like to see how they match up to Falcao's. In my opinion, apart from a brief resurgence, RVP has been just as underwhelming as Falcao, especially considering the good faith shown by LVG.
Still, I struggle to blame the strikers fully. And that's because, as I say, I've watched every game we've played this season and invariably we create jack shit.
No it's not, I clearly said he needs to improve his finishing. Some has been unlucky and some has been completely awful. In the recent games he has played, United have been completely awful and created very little. It's no surprise to me that the whole teams creativity has dropped since Young has been injured. As we have seen since he has been missing we don't have anyone to drive forward and cross the ball or run at the defence and make passes forward as well as he was doing.
As for the "chances in the box" stats you posted, they don't really show the true story do they? All chances are different for one.
He's either still not fit or simply overrated. Rough to judge because I literally saw him play once before he joined.
I'm not sure what kind of striker he is. He isn't overly fast, can't dribble, can't hold the ball up well, not very big and doesn't have great balance.
People speak of his brilliant finishing and movement but I expect those from any top level striker.
He hasn't shown enough and up to this point I don't want him back. But I hope I'm wrong and he scores from here on out.
I'm not sure what kind of striker he is. He isn't overly fast, can't dribble, can't hold the ball up well, not very big and doesn't have great balance.
People speak of his brilliant finishing and movement but I expect those from any top level striker.
He hasn't shown enough and up to this point I don't want him back. But I hope I'm wrong and he scores from here on out.
- Watch tonnes of games on BT and Sky and see things happening with players (Di Maria taking too many shots, Falcao getting chances but not taking them, De Gea world class but trailing Neuer by miles and replaceable) at all clubs.
- Come on here and read people acting as though it's not the case and the player can either do no wrong or is in an impossible situation because of something or someone else.
- State your opinion in words and an interesting way, without backing it up.
- Told you're talking nonsense and biased, or just had a go at for supporting Spurs and being an ABU (ironic given how much I like Man Utd).
- Defend yourself and compelled to prove your point the only way possible; statistically.
- Told you don't watch the match because you tried to use evidence to show Falcao gets exactly the same amount of chances in the box as Costa and more than Kane and Sanchez.
Saw about 3 against Everton, 2 against Spurs, a huge one against Hull, 3 or 4 against QPR and another couple against Cambridge. Can't even recall immediately the games in between. If this was Welbeck not Falcao in the penalty area nobody would be surprised or able to tell.
I've never seen someone use so many stats to prove a point. Rather than just hittting Squawka/Opta/ Fourfourtwo, how about just watching the games and make an opinion?Is @luckyspurs @Eriksen?
Watch loads of games; who that would spend any amount of time on here doesn't? It's how you form the original opinion (you don't argue something you haven't seen on the pitch and thought already). Then when pushed you can look up the evidence of what you've been seeing in matches (Falcao having loads of chances but missing them) and see if the evidence backs it up. If it does you can post it to strengthen and give weight to the opinion.
It's the type of thinking that stops swaying between players being great one week or rubbish the next. You have a little step back, look in context and try to get an overview of what level a player is and why it isn't working if that's the case. As someone with a history degree and within journalism, you're expected to provide evidence for your opinions and have to be able to respond when told you're talking nonsense when critiquing someone's favourite player.
So as well as being a really enjoyable site to be a part of, it's good practice defending your comments against critics or people trying to belittle or say you don't watch games, because you have an unpopular opinion. Every opinion is at one stage unrecognised or unpopular (loads remain unaccepted, but loads become accepted in time).
I'm a 24 year old football/sport mad Crystal Palace correspondent and sports writer. Of course I'm watching every match I possibly can, domestic and European, to form opinions on players and enjoy for their own sake.
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Just out of curiosity, and I mean this is a major stab in the dark, but: How exactly do you know how many games I watch? Or do you go around generally in life making yourself out to be superior to others in whichever way you can find? So what if your a history post-grad, I majored in Finance and accounting, I don't go around telling people that I know the club's financial structure better than they will ever know?
Jesus wept.
That's good, so you can research the last time Spurs actually won anything and then write about it to let the new generation of fans learn about it.
Needs repeating. Apparently.
He was world class before joining Monaco no doubt but began struggling there already before his injury as far as I can remember.
I see we have a new tedious statto. Fantastic.
Amazing
Very true, he wasn't great at Monaco, they are not an offensive that create a lot of opportunities but he could have done better. Emmanuel Rivière who plays for Newcastle was their main man and goalscorer even before Falcao got injured.
I think that he's been unlucky. He wants to sign for us but the problem is the price and the fact, we're playing like a pub team. So he's worried and that can effect anyone. Even in the last game, he had that one chance which I think was a good save. When your lucks in, it bounces in. People using stats or whatever - it's clear as day. If you're a forward for United at the minute, there is a real lack of quality service coming your way and when it does, it's so inconsistent that you cannot be expecting it. (from midfield and from out wide)
So when it comes to judging Falcao it's very difficult. He had no pre season. Two of his goals have come to rescue us a point so that will often get overlooked. It must be disheartening relying on some of these players to earn a contract. We saw with Tevez that if the situations not quite right - in that he knew he wasn't first choice etc players can struggle and he struggled.
He wasn't the same player at City. With Better service and a real belief in this team AND if we sign him..I think he'd be a far better taker of chances.
So when it comes to judging Falcao it's very difficult. He had no pre season. Two of his goals have come to rescue us a point so that will often get overlooked. It must be disheartening relying on some of these players to earn a contract. We saw with Tevez that if the situations not quite right - in that he knew he wasn't first choice etc players can struggle and he struggled.
He wasn't the same player at City. With Better service and a real belief in this team AND if we sign him..I think he'd be a far better taker of chances.
Don't know why I felt the need to defend myself slightly. Might have had something to do with 6 posters, including yourself, pointing, laughing, posting smilies and generally trying to belittle at every turn and reduce a poster not a post, for saying Falcao's has had plenty of chances and hasn't taken them well enough.
Also, as you would see if you read the edited quote, the comment was to say that a history grad uses evidence (I didn't watch the Battle of Hastings for example) to make arguments and a journalist (criticising Harry Redknapp for instance) has to defend that argument using evidence, or they are accused of having an agenda or hating for no reason.
It wasn't the case of trying to act superior that you took it to mean. Probably says more about you than me; racing in to announce your Finance and accounting major at the very mention of my uni past (it was reference to the subject not the degree). Last bit of this playground nonsense. Back to the debate.
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Fair enough to you fella, you seem a smart chap and you do back up your points well. I was merely referring to the fact that you strongly use stats to back up your point, just more than the average poster does. I'm not one to criticize the poster, more an observation I have made more than anything else.
Keep the facts going though, I do learn something new every day
The comparisons to Suarez are a bit silly. Suarez is coming off a couple of world class seasons. Falcao is coming off an average one and a serious injury.
I made a joke about your team and wasn't ridiculing you personally. Can we not laugh and joke while having a discussion?
Berbatov's doing well for them too and he's been too old for United for ages. I know Berbatov's never been quick and more suited to French or Italian football, but it's interesting. Monaco was pre-injury too. Shame because he's a really nice guy of course and clearly willing to work. Riviere to be honest felt like a Kane style run than something long term; even before his Newcastle move.
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Luckyspurs is mad winger without the Kagawa. He was an opta man too.
What's silly? Suarez is having a hard time of it in Spain. Falcao's injury came during his only season at Monaco and he also had a good 3/4 world class seasons before it. He only returned to full fitness recently. If he doesn't make it here he probably will somewhere else. Those stats are stupid. It's clear as fecking day that Costa etc get better service than Falcao.
@luckyspurs
'Shots in the box' doesn't have to equal clear cut chances. In a fast, counter attacking team it normally would, but United's build up play is so slow that a lot of those shots could be speculative attempts with five defenders between Falcao and the goal. You can't make comparisons of finishing ability by % of shots converted without allowing all sorts of differences between the sort of supply players are getting. Giroud's % of shots converted is probably really high this season, but he's not a great finisher at all, he positions himself well for cut backs from the wings, and has scored a couple from outside the box but he's terrible at finishing when one on one with a keeper.
Stats are only ever useful if you look at them in context. If everyone but you disagrees with the way the stats have been used to make an argument, the argument's probably wrong.
'Shots in the box' doesn't have to equal clear cut chances. In a fast, counter attacking team it normally would, but United's build up play is so slow that a lot of those shots could be speculative attempts with five defenders between Falcao and the goal. You can't make comparisons of finishing ability by % of shots converted without allowing all sorts of differences between the sort of supply players are getting. Giroud's % of shots converted is probably really high this season, but he's not a great finisher at all, he positions himself well for cut backs from the wings, and has scored a couple from outside the box but he's terrible at finishing when one on one with a keeper.
Stats are only ever useful if you look at them in context. If everyone but you disagrees with the way the stats have been used to make an argument, the argument's probably wrong.
Maybe there really was something to those age rumours. I mean, it'd tie in with his regression (pre injury) at Monaco. The fact that he got so badly injured just made matters worse. But he was hardly ripping up any trees in France before that.
Agree with the general point to a degree, but for a few different reasons. Firstly, a lot of Falcao's chances (this is just from watching) are headers whipped in that he can't help head over the bar because he's got a defender pressed all over him (more allowed in English football). That counts as chance in the box, but as you say it's not as good as Hazard and Fabregas drawing defenders to them and feeding Costa in space.
Falcao has had plenty of the same types of chances Giroud and Costa have been getting though and struggled. Everton he completely scuffed a great chance and the two against Spurs were the two worst I've seen from him, besides the Hull one cleared off the line. Part of that's luck (Balotelli could have had 5 or 6, the way De Gea and McGregor and a few other keepers played against him) but his shot power looks down and he's not moving his limbs the way he did for Atletico (agility I suppose you'd call it).
Falcao used to have that Aguero look in the sense that the ball could come to him at almost any height or pace and he'd react to power or deflect it in the net somehow. Just not catching them the same way; looks achy if that makes sense. Like a retired kick boxer or kung fu movie star who can't do the body movements which made him so special.
@Red Shorts Thanks @langster Apologies
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has had chances and has not taken them. has three goals two tap ins and a header. we'd be flogging him big style if his name was javier hernandez. difference is that we're paying more for his 1 season loan than we paid for hernandez.
If his name was Hernandez or Welbeck he'd be getting absolutely destroyed on here. And I mean slaughtered.
You can bag falcao all you like but any striker in the world would look dog shit in this drivel of a formation van gaals serving up . I'd go as far to say we are the worst team to watch in the league .
Agreed falcao as been poor but so as rvp and wilsons not exactly broke any pots . If van gaal can't put a decent attack minded formation together with the players he as available then he's the wrong man for the job .
Agreed falcao as been poor but so as rvp and wilsons not exactly broke any pots . If van gaal can't put a decent attack minded formation together with the players he as available then he's the wrong man for the job .
So a flick of a switch then turned him from world class to average overnight then did it? His record there wasn't even that bad. 13 in 22. Lets forget about the 150 goals in 180 games before that. He may not reach those levels again but it's feck all to do with his age.
Yep, so many people wanted Welbeck to leave in the summer didn't they? Some are still probably whinging about it.
Also, from the past few pages It seems as though a lot of people are "slaughtering" Falcao so to speak.
Also, from the past few pages It seems as though a lot of people are "slaughtering" Falcao so to speak.
used hernandez because he "only scores" tag associated with his name as if that's a bad thing for a poacher (which falcao is now).
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