Question for the Hojlund haters and doubters

LordSpud said:
Any number 9 would struggle with no service which is what you get at United.
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That service excuse just can't die. Every game we have a lot of crosses/low passes targeting penalty box. He isn't anywhere near of those. Are you saying that every cross or pass was shit? Our players try often through balls and Hojlund is nowhere these those? Again, are you saying that every through ball is shit?
How that service works anyway? He parks himself at one spot and Dalot or Garnacho must deliver the ball on his foot or head through 5 or 6 opposition players? Reminds me on Seinfeld's theory about magic spit which hits Kramer.



At this moment he is not even poor man's Lukaku and that same Lukaku was ridiculed among United fans.
 
I like Hojlund but this is a pretty lazy thread.

I mean there are also quite a few answers to the question: Haaland, Mbappe, Messi, Ronaldo x 2, Benzema, Owen, Rooney, Zlatan, Torres off the top of my head.
 
We don’t have to compare him to other forwards his age as there are quite a few. I think our team lack the skill set to play with a forward of he’s calibre. Theirs nothing wrong with Hojlund, he’s young and still learning he’s trade it’s the attitude of the other knobheads around him!!!
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Even some of the players apparently dont think he is good enough

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If that is the case then Ten Hag needs to do a Ferguson and tell them to pass to him er they don't play.
Given that this is Luckhurst though it's likely pulled out of his arse.
 
Two things can be true at the same time. United's attack does not give him enough service and (at least at this point in his career) he doesn't seem to have good enough movement in the final third, especially instincts for finding space or anticipating where the ball could go and arriving on time to meet it.

He is literally in the 1st percentile among PL forwards in terms of shots per 90. You don't put up that stat unless both things are true.

The big picture is that he moved very rapidly up the football ladder largely based on his physical attributes and really hasn't learned the finer points of the game yet, especially playing against more organized defenses anchored by CBs he can't just physically dominate.
 
LordSpud said:


Call a spade a spade, this is shocking
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You are saying basically that striker is some immovable object in penalty box and chances and goals depend on their teammates.
Look some Isak's goals this season; guy gets the ball way from the goal, goes past defender and scores a goal.
Watkins; attacks cross, comes before defender and scores.
You saw Haaland's 4th goal vs Wolves? He got pass in space (just as Hojlund sometimes gets). Now comes difference; Hojlund allows defender to catch him, starts shielding the ball and loses the ball. Haaland made 2 touches and 3rd was shot in the corner of the net.

To anyone who keep talking about service; look at goals which Solanke, Isak, Watkins (i will not even mention Haaland) score and then talk about "service".
 
Powderfinger said:
Two things can be true at the same time. United's attack does not give him enough service and (at least at this point in his career) he doesn't seem to have good enough movement in the final third, especially instincts for finding space or anticipating where the ball could go and arriving on time to meet it.

He is literally in the 1st percentile among PL forwards in terms of shots per 90. You don't put up that stat unless both things are true.

The big picture is that he moved very rapidly up the football ladder largely based on his physical attributes and really hasn't learned the finer points of the game yet, especially playing against more organized defenses anchored by CBs he can't just physically dominate.
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Ofcourse there is a little bit of both. I don't think Hojlund will become world class but better than this I am sure.
 
Are there actual Hojlund haters?!

I'd say he's done about as well as I expected, has potential but nowhere near ready to be first choice for Man United

Going into a season with a raw Hojlund and glass Martial as only strikers was always going to end badly
 
Denis79 said:
Ofcourse there is a little bit of both. I don't think Hojlund will become world class but better than this I am sure.
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Yup, he is really young and also hasn't stayed anywhere long enough to really settle. He clearly isn't a striking prodigy but it would be crazy to write off a player his age. I still think he could become a good player but he really should be splitting time in a less pressurized role that allows him to develop.
 
kouroux said:
That ain't gonna change the fact that he struggles to keep the ball under pressure and do basic linking up. I don't expect much more than that
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Same. And not even every time the ball is played into him, just most of the time please. Thats your job
 
Hojlund had two passes into the box yesterday, one where he slipped and the other where his touch let him down back to goal.

The service isn't good enough and he's not doing enough when the ball comes in.
 
I don't see what playing as a lone striker or with a partner has to do with basic ball control and shielding the ball from your defender. When/If Hojlund can do that more frequently then I'll have no issues
 
He has 13 goals and 2 assists in all competitions, for a striker his age coming into this league in a team which is a complete disaster I do not think it is too bad, in a properly function team he will get lots of goals, hopefully next season
 
I got one. How many teams have ever managed top 10 in the Premier league? Exactly. So 8th for our boys is quite an achievement if you just reframe your minds.
 
Rood said:
Are there actual Hojlund haters?!

I'd say he's done about as well as I expected, has potential but nowhere near ready to be first choice for Man United

Going into a season with a raw Hojlund and glass Martial as only strikers was always going to end badly
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Every United player bar perhaps Mainoo has haters, and if form is anything to go by it won't be long before he gets some
 
Rood said:
Are there actual Hojlund haters?!

I'd say he's done about as well as I expected, has potential but nowhere near ready to be first choice for Man United

Going into a season with a raw Hojlund and glass Martial as only strikers was always going to end badly
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Have a look through this thread, or more so Højlund's performance thread. There's more than a few posters who are particularly scathing in their assessments of his ability.
 
Crimson King said:
Have a look through this thread, or more so Højlund's performance thread. There's more than a few posters who are particularly scathing in their assessments of his ability.
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I've seen him called one of worst ever signings in there!
 
Rood said:
Are there actual Hojlund haters?!

I'd say he's done about as well as I expected, has potential but nowhere near ready to be first choice for Man United

Going into a season with a raw Hojlund and glass Martial as only strikers was always going to end badly
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There's people who seem to desperate to have an opinion, he's apparently so crap you wouldn't believe he'd ever kicked a football.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
That service excuse just can't die. Every game we have a lot of crosses/low passes targeting penalty box. He isn't anywhere near of those. Are you saying that every cross or pass was shit? Our players try often through balls and Hojlund is nowhere these those? Again, are you saying that every through ball is shit?
How that service works anyway? He parks himself at one spot and Dalot or Garnacho must deliver the ball on his foot or head through 5 or 6 opposition players? Reminds me on Seinfeld's theory about magic spit which hits Kramer.

At this moment he is not even poor man's Lukaku and that same Lukaku was ridiculed among United fans.
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How can you watch our games this season and think 'hm yes, Bruno Garnacho, Rashford and Antony are unselfishly supplying dozens of amazing through balls and crosses into the penalty box...why is there no one there?'.

Look at the yesterday's game. Garnacho had the ball about 20 times on the left wing against Ben White and maybe put in 3-5 'good' crosses. The rest were shite shots, passes or limp crosses when he was off balance. This has basically been true all for him and the players mentioned above all season except we've excused this because of his goals and relentless running. I'm not blaming him individually as it's all on ETH but none of our wide players can walk off the pitch this year and say 'you know what, I put in at least 3-4 good balls for a striker to attack that should have resulted in a goal' game after game.

Andycoleno9 said:
You are saying basically that striker is some immovable object in penalty box and chances and goals depend on their teammates.
Look some Isak's goals this season; guy gets the ball way from the goal, goes past defender and scores a goal.
Watkins; attacks cross, comes before defender and scores.
You saw Haaland's 4th goal vs Wolves? He got pass in space (just as Hojlund sometimes gets). Now comes difference; Hojlund allows defender to catch him, starts shielding the ball and loses the ball. Haaland made 2 touches and 3rd was shot in the corner of the net.

To anyone who keep talking about service; look at goals which Solanke, Isak, Watkins (i will not even mention Haaland) score and then talk about "service".
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And all of those teams have scored more goals, played better football and have objectively better metrics across the board attacking wise than us. Hojlund is not without fault and deserves his criticism but to say 'the service isn't (part of) the issue' is untrue.
 
Rood said:
Morons !

14 goals + 2 assists plus had a couple of injuries - not a bad return for first season in an average team
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Agreed, he needs to get better at some aspects of his game but whathe's been asked to do this season would ruin most 21 year old players
 
Rood said:
Are there actual Hojlund haters?!

I'd say he's done about as well as I expected, has potential but nowhere near ready to be first choice for Man United

Going into a season with a raw Hojlund and glass Martial as only strikers was always going to end badly
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Agreed. He's had a decent year given his age and lack of service + plus how terrible the entire squad have been all year. Still, he's not a starting XI type player for a big club at this point in his career. He may eventually grow into such a role, but we need a striker who can knock in about 30 goals a year right now. All of this was entirely predictable when ETH began dropping big money everywhere else except on an experienced world class striker.
 
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rasmus-højlund-2023-24-performances.478474/page-224#post-31939095

As seen in the Hojlund thread:



Exactly. How can anyone watch this video and think 'hmm Hojlund bad' and this isn't even the full amount of the chances we saw down on the left. In this video, I would say I would have liked Hojlund to go closer to Garnacho at the 25sec mark. Every other incident is Garnacho running head down into a crowd of defenders and then smashing it without much thought.

Could Hojlund have made 'better' runs? Sure as there are theoretical better positions to be in a penalty box i.e near post, far post and the penalty spot but that would be asking the Arsenal defenders to be invisible.

The first move when Garnacho got to the goal line in the first half was the perfect run if Hojlund got to it. Everything else was pretty much downhill from there.
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criticalanalysis said:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rasmus-højlund-2023-24-performances.478474/page-224#post-31939095

As seen in the Hojlund thread:

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Interesting because I watch that video and think the complete opposite. Each clip, look at Hojlund's position and tell me honestly how Garnacho was supposed to put a ball in to find him. There's huge amounts of empty space repeatedly and Hojlund is never there.

0:04, blocked by 3 Arsenal players. 0:16, poor cross anyway but blocked by 1 Arsenal player regardless. 0:30, blocked by 2 Arsenal players. 0:36, poor cross but blocked by 3 Arsenal players regardless. 0:42, not in a position to receive the ball, should be where McTominay is. 0:56, blocked by 1 Arsenal player and not in a good position to receive the ball. 1:08, not in a position to receive the ball despite a massive space being open if he was to sprint at full pace. 1:18, not in a position to receive the ball, though this one is probably the most forgivable since Garnacho is cutting in to shoot, despite this you can see there is space there that Hojlund could have run into.
 
He's in a dysfunctional team, he's not getting any service. He'd score more goals if he played for City, Arsenal or Liverpool.
 
Raoul said:
Agreed. He's had a decent year given his age and lack of service + plus how terrible the entire squad have been all year. Still, he's not a starting XI type player for a big club at this point in his career. He may eventually grow into such a role, but we need a striker who can knock in about 30 goals a year right now. All of this was entirely predictable when ETH began dropping big money everywhere else except on an experienced world class striker.
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TBF there was a dearth of top strikers available last summer - Chelsea and Arsenal were both in the market for one too but even a stop gap old timer would have helped Hojlund carry the burden in his first season

I do remember saying we should have gone for Ollie Watkins

ETH was also expecting Mason Greenwood to be part of his squad
 
I believe he’ll be a top striker in time, he isn’t yet but he’s not the finished article and is now another scapegoat for our struggles.

I’m sure there are plenty in this thread who were impressed by him during his small run of decent form, when we looked like a half decent, coherent side.
 
Dazzmondo said:
Interesting because I watch that video and think the complete opposite. Each clip, look at Hojlund's position and tell me honestly how Garnacho was supposed to put a ball in to find him. There's huge amounts of empty space repeatedly and Hojlund is never there.

0:04, blocked by 3 Arsenal players. 0:16, poor cross anyway but blocked by 1 Arsenal player regardless. 0:30, blocked by 2 Arsenal players. 0:36, poor cross but blocked by 3 Arsenal players regardless. 0:42, not in a position to receive the ball, should be where McTominay is. 0:56, blocked by 1 Arsenal player and not in a good position to receive the ball. 1:08, not in a position to receive the ball despite a massive space being open if he was to sprint at full pace. 1:18, not in a position to receive the ball, though this one is probably the most forgivable since Garnacho is cutting in to shoot, despite this you can see there is space there that Hojlund could have run into.
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Firstly, I will say that neither player are faultless but in these incidents, it's mostly on Garnacho to find the player and be progressive with the ball.

As a wide player/playmaker, your duty is to create and be effective. You can do that with dribbling penetration, crossing, passing and shooting. Garnacho is trying to do all of these things without much thought of how to get there or how to best implement it. Look at all the clips, he is pretty much head down and just running and running into clogged lanes and spaces without thinking of what to do next. Garnacho is not finding Hojlund or anyone else because he's not thinking about the next step. Less is more. You don't need to take on and make space down the touchline, you don't need to hit a cross from an disadvantageous area, you don't need to force a shot etc. Once you've made the space and got a defender to respect you, you can recycle the ball to another teammate to move it infield/play one-twos or set himself to either take on again or put in a cross from better footing. If you're not finding your own team mates, can't get a good shot or cross away, then it's a you issue. Amad is the perfect example of this in his 50 or so min appearance; had the ball way less but got into really positive areas and laid the ball off to feet.

Apart from the incident at 25 secs, where I thought Hojlund should have moved closer, there is no consistent pattern you can expect from a wide player like Garnacho to be able to predict where to run. As I've said above, yes Hojlund can work the more effective areas better but there's no rhyme or reason to it. You're looking at the clips like Hojlund can magically teleport into the area when Garnacho himself doesn't even know what he's going to do.

I don't blame Garnacho because everything that's he done up until this point has been successful for him as ETH can't coach an attacking (or defensive team). Therefore, he will let players like Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho spam their attacks. Hojlund is just catching the strays of playing in this idiotic set up.
 
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M Bison said:
I believe he’ll be a top striker in time, he isn’t yet but he’s not the finished article and is now another scapegoat for our struggles.

I’m sure there are plenty in this thread who were impressed by him during his small run of decent form, when we looked like a half decent, coherent side.
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It'll all change if he scores the winner in the cup final
 
Raoul said:
Agreed. He's had a decent year given his age and lack of service + plus how terrible the entire squad have been all year. Still, he's not a starting XI type player for a big club at this point in his career. He may eventually grow into such a role, but we need a striker who can knock in about 30 goals a year right now. All of this was entirely predictable when ETH began dropping big money everywhere else except on an experienced world class striker.
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30 goals a year striker, eh? Who did you have in mind? And in this disfunctional team? Mbappe? I believe he's available on a free!
 
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