Question for the Hojlund haters and doubters

[Rightnr]

i’d personally wait and see if hojlund spends the next 7 years mincing around like he doesn’t give a shit, before tarring him with the same brush.

He's already 21 though, so it's not like he's a teenager and has THAT much on his side.

This is also why I want Tuchel because I believe he can reinvent some of our current lot of players in ways people won't necessarily expect. I'd personally do the Darwin and play him RW depending on the game or bring him in on as a sub for penalty box chaos at the end.

He also played second striker for Atalanta, I believe.

 

[aj_united]

That ain't gonna change the fact that he struggles to keep the ball under pressure and do basic linking up. I don't expect much more than that

This pretty much sums it up for me. I'm sure he'd score a few more goals if United could pass/cross the ball, but his hold-up and link-up play, along with his positioning, looks average.

Yes, he's young and he's currently playing in a poorly setup team, but he has 2 games remaining to equal his best ever league goals tally of 9, and that looks unlikely. Across his career, he's averaged 1 goal every 3 games, which includes stints in Denmark, Austria & Italy.

Do we believe he'll ever be good enough to lead the United line for us to be serious top 4 contenders/league challengers? We all know we're way off of those targets, but that's the quality we should be aiming for.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

The club need an accomplished, experienced front man to take some of the weight off this kid's shoulders. Doesn't have to be a superstar. Someone like Toney or Solanke.

He also needs a coach who can get the best out of him because I don't think ten Hag knows how.

His hold up play is atrocious. I don't know if that's something he can improve on. His biggest strength seems when he can use his pace to take on defenders, going towards the opposition goal, not with his back to it.

I think he'd do well at a team that were more direct, where the job of the wide forwards/wingers (whatever you want to call them!) is to feed the front man often and early at every opportunity. That's clearly not the case at United as all the wide players seem to have carte blanche to blindly run the ball into dead ends before invariably losing possession. Feeding Hojlund seems an afterthought. That's on ten Hag that this issue has not been addressed, and it won't be addressed if ten Hag is the manager next season.

 

[Kellyiom]

I am defending him, I'm saying the expectations are way too high. He's had a decent first season in very difficult circumstances, people need to be more patient with him rather than expecting him to rock up at United and score 20 odd goals straight off the cuff.

I'm with you on this. He hasn't let his head drop during a very difficult time and has struggled to get decent supply.

I really don't know who we would get as an alternative if Kane is off-limits. Evan Ferguson? Artem Dovbyk or Lautaro Martin? The likes of Openda or Guirassy aren't going to be cheap even if their sales could be authorised.

Maybe we have to get more creative and have someone like Xavi Simons or Marcus Thuram or Alex Baena?

 

[The Purley King]

The club need an accomplished, experienced front man to take some of the weight off this kid's shoulders. Doesn't have to be a superstar. Someone like Toney or Solanke.

He also needs a coach who can get the best out of him because I don't think ten Hag knows how.

His hold up play is atrocious. I don't know if that's something he can improve on. His biggest strength seems when he can use his pace to take on defenders, going towards the opposition goal, not with his back to it.

I think he'd do well at a team that were more direct, where the job of the wide forwards/wingers (whatever you want to call them!) is to feed the front man often and early at every opportunity. That's clearly not the case at United as all the wide players seem to have carte blanche to blindly run the ball into dead ends before invariably losing possession. Feeding Hojlund seems an afterthought. That's on ten Hag that this issue has not been addressed, and it won't be addressed if ten Hag is the manager next season.

Neville said this in commentary and he was 100% correct.
We have 0 patterns of attack. Hoijlund could make 100 runs and nobody ever crosses the fecking ball.
Garnacho did it twice and I thought “great cross someone nod that in” and because it hardly ever happens nobody made the run.
It’s disjointed, the lot of it. That’s on ETH.

 

[Sassy Colin]

I've been calling him Hojland all this time and it's Hojlund

The reason I started this thread is because he was getting dogs abuse in the Matchday thread.

I think we have a list of around a dozen or so strikers who have held the line for a top European club at 21 over the past 30 odd years. It's not that many really, is it?

Also, some of those had strike partners/ traditional No. 10s, which makes scoring goals so much easier, that's not the modern game though.

 

[Raoul]

I've been calling him Hojland all this time and it's Hojlund

The reason I started this thread is because he was getting dogs abuse in the Matchday thread.

Our lack of goals isn't all his fault. He is after all a young, first year player who arrived in United during a season where the club has been stuck in reverse. That said, he hasn't really demonstrated anything that leads me to believe he's a player United can build around. He strikes me as more of a West Ham calibre player who somehow wound up at United because our manager flopped on all his other striker options.

 

[Red in STL]

I've been calling him Hojland all this time and it's Hojlund

The reason I started this thread is because he was getting dogs abuse in the Matchday thread.

I think we have a list of around a dozen or so strikers who have held the line for a top European club at 21 over the past 30 odd years. It's not that many really, is it?

Also, some of those had strike partners/ traditional No. 10s, which makes scoring goals so much easier, that's not the modern game though.

Never mind the matchday thread, in the performance one he's been called our worst signing

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Ronaldo, Haaland, Martial, Owen, Rooney, Isak, Mbappe, Osimhen, Leao, Lukaku, Benzema, Henry, Neymar....

Unless you’re talking about R9, the bolded are wingers, not strikers.

 

[Malone_Post]

It’s the Sancho & Antony threads all over again.

So many on here seem to think that every young player just needs time, rather than ability.

 

[Wibble]

Yeah, funny how I was banned for homophobic comments and now being insulted along the same lines .

I can't see that any of your numerous warnings were for making homophobic comments. You did get one for making a domestic violence joke though. And a 5 pt QC warning for one posts combined with your general poor standard of posting. You just seem incapable of not picking fights about stupid things and then escalating them.

 

[Judas]

He's got it all to prove next season. He was put in a tricky position, he's received terrible service, but his own game has a lot of improvements needed too.

 

[Isotope]

That Crystal's striker (Mateta) was really good, bringing others into play. Olise and Eze wouldn't be that effective if Hojlund was the striker instead of him.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I just want to see chances presented to him to see what his output really can be. That's all. He shoots less than any striker in the league and gets maybe one chance a game. Yes his movement isn't clicking at all but it's not like we put in countless brilliant balls into danger areas in the box and he isn't there.

 

[Hughie77]

The boy needs some help. His hold up play can be better at times, if you need to go long which ETH hardly does he can do better, so maybe a few lessons in that department..

Although teams don't go long any more and it's a tool that's under used. A experienced striker was needed with him none there...

 

[Andycoleno9]

Unless you’re talking about R9, the bolded are wingers, not strikers.

We are more and more stretching excuses for him. Age, service, position, style how team play, size of the club...
Those players who i mentioned are attackers (and yes, i was thinking on R9) and they all looked as top talents at the same age.
When player is 20 years old you can have excuses about his consistency but some things are obvious from day one like technique or creativity for example. You have that or you don't.
How many excuses we needed for Mainoo? Or for Rooney? None basically.

Hojlund will become a good attacker and i don't mind having him as backup option but will he become no1 striker material for title challenger in PL? I don't think so.

 

[foolsgold]

I think we have a list of around a dozen or so strikers who have held the line for a top European club at 21 over the past 30 odd years. It's not that many really, is it?

Also, some of those had strike partners/ traditional No. 10s, which makes scoring goals so much easier, that's not the modern game though.

We're not a top European side, we're a tumescent mid table side.I think while the kid has potential and we should be looking to develop him, he's not remotely ready to do what we're asking of him.

Look at it another way, if he'd come through the academy, he'd be out on loan somewhere in the championship and probably doing quite well. He's in the team due to price tag and desperation.

 

[Lyng]

That Crystal's striker (Mateta) was really good, bringing others into play. Olise and Eze wouldn't be that effective if Hojlund was the striker instead of him.

Mateta is a great point. Look at him before they got the new manager.

 

[Insanity]

That Crystal's striker (Mateta) was really good, bringing others into play. Olise and Eze wouldn't be that effective if Hojlund was the striker instead of him.

That is the thing. I keep reading that he is starved for service but the system we play the striker needs to be able to bring others in to play with his hold-up & link-up play. Hojlund lacks in those areas. It's not his fault that this job is thrust upon his young shoulders. However, it is also true that he doesn't look like someone who has those skills in his repertoire.

On Redcafe you are a "Hater" if you are not sucking off every young player. Hojlund still has talent, folks used to shill for Tyler Blackett & came down heavily if you criticized him. So, not a surprise that they'll do it Rasmus.

 

[Lyng]

He's already 21 though, so it's not like he's a teenager and has THAT much on his side.

This is also why I want Tuchel because I believe he can reinvent some of our current lot of players in ways people won't necessarily expect. I'd personally do the Darwin and play him RW depending on the game or bring him in on as a sub for penalty box chaos at the end.

He also played second striker for Atalanta, I believe.

He did and he was asked to run channels, always receiving the ball in a position where he could run at players.
He is at his best when he can run at players. His dribbling goes from non existent to quite decent when he can run at players. With the back to defenders he is having issues and its something that needs a lot of work.
Which is also why its absolutely daft that he has been asked to do nothing but stand with his back against defenders this season.
I honestly dont believe Ten Hag knew what kind of player he bought when looking at how he has been used.

 

[LordSpud]

Any number 9 would struggle with no service which is what you get at United.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Our fans are shit. I've said it before but managerial bias leads to people having terrible opinions on anything related to the manager. Most people dislike ETH so will also dislike his signings, irrational or not. Martial, whilst a little younger, scored 17 in his first season yet we lauded him as unreal talent who completely failed here as a player. Hojlund has 13 and most have already written him off.

 

[tenpoless]

I like Hojlund. So far he's quite alright. Sometimes good, sometimes meh, other times excellent. So there's hope.

Chicharito was pretty decent back then. He was 22 though, not 21. But I guess he's the only player that I thought would struggle and ended up always scoring against Chelsea. And even if he was smaller than most PL CBs, he managed to fool most of them (including that backhead goal).

 

[El Jefe]

Our fans are shit. I've said it before but managerial bias leads to people having terrible opinions on anything related to the manager. Most people dislike ETH so will also dislike his signings, irrational or not. Martial, whilst a little younger, scored 17 in his first season yet we lauded him as unreal talent who completely failed here as a player. Hojlund has 13 and most have already written him off.

This whole post doesn’t add up to reality in anyway.

ETH had a pretty good first season so he entered this season with a lot of goodwill just as LVG. Both in their second season played boring and uninspiring stuff and fans were hounding them out. There was every reason to hate Martial for the same reason you’re claiming Hojlund is. Memphis, Darmian, Schneiderlin all got abuse for being shite.

Onto the Martial and Hojlund comparison in their first season that is just absurd. Martial’s season was by far and away clearly better, using goals as your only metric when Martial was pretty much a playmaker and goal scorer is pretty weak.

There is a reason why both have been received differently and it’s their performances and nothing else.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Any number 9 would struggle with no service which is what you get at United.

But what do you reckon a genuinely good no. 9 would get? Think 21 year old Fowler or Owen. They’d surely get themselves in a ton more scoring positions.

I think you’d be crazy to give up on him though, all this season has illustrated is that he’s not ready to lead the line yet, not that he’ll never be ready.

 

[LordSpud]

I think you’d be crazy to give up on him though, all this season has illustrated is that he’s not ready to lead the line yet, not that he’ll never be ready.

I've seen enough from him to see that he will be great. He's fast, powerful and pretty skillful to boot.

 

[NicolaSacco]

I've seen enough from him to see that he will be great. He's fast, powerful and pretty skillful to boot.

That would be my guess too. Mentally this must have been an exceptionally difficult first season for him, and he seems completely determined, not cowed by the experience.

The question really is should he be your first choice striker next year, starting 30 or 40 games? I’m not sure that that is the best way to go about things.

 

[Borys]

Name the strikers, in the history of football, who have successfully led the line at a 'top' European club at the age of 21.

Haaland springs to mind as an obvious one.

I was surprised that RvN was already 25 when he came to United, because I thought we wanted to buy him when he was 19, until he had that serious injury.

Obviously, there are going to be several, of course there is, but it's a big ask of any player, considering he's had no strike partner nor anyone to rotate with him to give him a rest.

btw, the answer to this question isn't "but he cost £70M".

Name names.

First of all, we're not a "top" european club. We are a team that in the next year will be aspiring to get back to Champions League. Long way to go if we stay with this manager.
Secondly, my expectations are much lower than you would probably think. I expect some basic footballing skills in holdup play, passing, call it general contribution. Some dribbling ability would be nice from an attacking player.

I would prefer a young player that is showing he can contribute to general play more even and not converting chances, because that will eventually come with age. Hojlund seems good at converting chances into goals but other than that his contribution is non existent, what is a worry for the future.

Interesting as we had similar situation with Antony, first season people were willing to forgive him a lot but the second season they lost patience. BTW Antony is not playing worse than he was first season. It will be interesting to see if Hojlund gets better in his second season.

It’s the Sancho & Antony threads all over again.

So many on here seem to think that every young player just needs time, rather than ability.

Exactly.

 

[reddev3]

He never gets a cross to tap in or a through ball to run on to which is basically his game.

When ever we counter attack, 99 times out of 100 the ball goes out wide to either Rashford or Garnacho rather than playing Hojlund through the middle and then when ever it does go wide the wingers either shoot or do a horrific cross that even Haaland wouldn't get on the end of.

I can't even remember the last time he's had a chance to run on to something, he's either fighting with a crowded backline to try and hold up the ball or sprinting to keep up with Rashford/Garnahco and get in the box before they shoot into the stands or the oppositions legs.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Any number 9 would struggle with no service which is what you get at United.

He gets service but he either lets it role straight past him, takes a horrible first touch that takes it away from him, falls over, or just gives it away easilly.

He is also often in the wrong place during attacks so the wingers cant pick him out with a pass or cross.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Name who we could have bought instead of better caliber is a more interesting and relevant discussion imo.

I struggle to really see who that’d be. (Of realistic ones where the club wanted to sell for same price we had to buy Højlund. Clearly that was the funds we had left after spunking on Mount first).

He still has scored 15 goals in a dysfunctional team with no service. It’s too easy to blame it all on him and find examples like Ronaldo, Anelka, Benzema, etc who all had fantastic service and a much better team next to them.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Considering the circumstances I think he's done okay. It's not his fault we've spent £70m and are completely reliant on him when at the moment he's more of a £30m back-up striker. Combine that with being in a dysfunctional team where the wingers create absolutely nothing and it's no surprise he's struggled at times. Even when he had that run of goals he was barely getting any chances, he was just very clinical with them.

 

[Bobski]

He never gets a cross to tap in or a through ball to run on to which is basically his game.

Is that enough?

I can see him scoring a decent number of goals, he is a pretty good finisher when he does get a chance. If the service improves and his movement develops he could be a consistent scorer, but if Utd want to be a top team again surely you need more from the striker than just goals?

That is the concern for me, not worried about his goal total at all, it is all the rest.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

There is little cohesion in the attacking unit.

I don’t buy the ‘not being in the right place’ thing. Ruud van Nistelrooy could be anywhere in that box and the likes of Beckham, Giggs and even Ronaldo would find him, because good wingers can lift their head and still do something. We have raw wingers or bad wingers. None of them are closer to double figures in assists, and that’s not even because they’ve created tons of openings and been unlucky, they are just also genuine cut in and shoot merchants.

On Hojlund, clearly, he is disillusioned. That’s no excuse for poor performances because since the injury he’s been pretty bad, but when you know that no matter what you do, the ball is coming nowhere near you, you probably do start limiting busting your gut and just hope the ball will land or ricochet.

I think the reasons behind his performances are vast. But the last thing for me is his positioning. I don’t think any striker in the world could score more than 20 goals down the middle with the way we play. Imagine trying to time your runs playing with Antony

 

[Borys]

Name who we could have bought instead of better caliber is a more interesting and relevant discussion imo.

I struggle to really see who that’d be. (Of realistic ones where the club wanted to sell for same price we had to buy Højlund. Clearly that was the funds we had left after spunking on Mount first).

He still has scored 15 goals in a dysfunctional team with no service. It’s too easy to blame it all on him and find examples like Ronaldo, Anelka, Benzema, etc who all had fantastic service and a much better team next to them.

What about Isak, Solanke, Watkins, Mateta?
Hojlund wasn't a cheap, low risk option. We paid 80m eur for him.

Again similar to Antony last year, people make it sound like there were no options out there. It might be that there aren't many strikers/ right wingers in the market. But you could possibly get Olise for the money we spent on Antony. We could have paid double money for Jackson. It's a weak excuse for me.

 

[ROFLUTION]

What about Isak, Solanke, Watkins, Mateta?
Hojlund wasn't a cheap, low risk option. We paid 80m eur for him.

Again similar to Antony last year, people make it sound like there were no options out there. It might be that there aren't many strikers/ right wingers in the market. But you could possibly get Olise for the money we spent on Antony. We could have paid double money for Jackson. It's a weak excuse for me.

I doubt we have paid 80m eur on Højlund yet, that's only if certain conditions are met. It was 64m gbp + 8m in addons, but I could be wrong.

Isak already was at Newcastle last summer, so not an option.
Solanke had an xGi of 11 goals and scored 6 goals+assisted 10. He's a decent shout now, but I doubt anyone really considered him in the summer, because of his not so high output.
Mateta seems obvious in hindsight, and might be a good shout. He'd required both some good scouting + a lot of balls to go with for a club desperate to please the fans.
Watkins was an option I'd say. Came off a pretty good season and got better this one. Watkins might have been the most mature decision, but I'm a bit unsure whether we could have gotten him for the amount we spend on Højlund. (That was our max price for a striker). Keep in mind, Aston Villa did everything they could to not sell Grealish, and only sold him for a huge amount. (100m gbp)

I still can understand why we signed Højlund with the options available. He was an exciting option in the summer and the next big thing. I probably would have Mateta instead too in hindsight, but I'm just not sure he was on our scouts radar. With Mateta or Watkins, they are 26 and 28 years old. I do think Højlund at those ages will reach the same level, so it's also a question of who do you bring in who will reach the higher ceiling long term. Or do you prioritize results here and now? Tricky one to answer.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

But that is the problem. He was bought as a starting striker for the premium price of one, and he’s not close to that level, which is a pretty big problem for our squad.

I’d disagree with this, believe he was bought for his potential, and to share minutes with Martial, as there were no ready-made options knocking about.

There weren’t many options around when we were buying, this article covers some of the issues (though I can remember reading one that wasn’t United specific but can’t find)

https://theathletic.com/4640629/2023/07/25/ten-hag-transfers-strikers-2023/

Sharing minutes with Martial might not have been the best plan!

 

[tomaldinho1]

There is little cohesion in the attacking unit.

I don’t buy the ‘not being in the right place’ thing. Ruud van Nistelrooy could be anywhere in that box and the likes of Beckham, Giggs and even Ronaldo would find him, because good wingers can lift their head and still do something. We have raw wingers or bad wingers. None of them are closer to double figures in assists, and that’s not even because they’ve created tons of openings and been unlucky, they are just also genuine cut in and shoot merchants.

On Hojlund, clearly, he is disillusioned. That’s no excuse for poor performances because since the injury he’s been pretty bad, but when you know that no matter what you do, the ball is coming nowhere near you, you probably do start limiting busting your gut and just hope the ball will land or ricochet.

I think the reasons behind his performances are vast. But the last thing for me is his positioning. I don’t think any striker in the world could score more than 20 goals down the middle with the way we play. Imagine trying to time your runs playing with Antony

You could argue we don't have any traditional wingers at all given they tend to be inverted now. What we need is the overlapping full backs, there was a brief but of hope when Reguillon played and was zinging them in for him and it was an issue of Hojlund going near post but Reguillon going far post (and then the opposite) so clearly just not being used to playing with each other. Dalot can definitely do this as can Shaw.

 

[Borys]

What a total cop out, and frankly, nonsense. We’ve literally got two others in the team right now who get FAR less stick than Rasmus. We’ve always been a fanbase that gives time, and frankly, excuses to talented young players. The key is the talent part. Being young isn’t a talent. It is possible for Hojlund to show more, without looking as good as Harry Kane. There’s a LOT in between. He’s been poor in the vast majority of his games for us.

I doubt we have paid 80m eur on Højlund yet, that's only if certain conditions are met.

Isak already was at Newcastle last summer, so not an option.
Solanke had an xGi of 11 goals and scored 6 goals+assisted 10. He's a decent shout now, but I doubt anyone really considered him in the summer, because of his not so high output.
Mateta seems obvious in hindsight, and might be a good shout. He'd required both some good scouting + a lot of balls to go with for a club desperate to please the fans.
Watkins was an option I'd say. Came off a pretty good season and got better this one. Watkins might have been the most mature decision, but I'm a bit unsure whether we could have gotten him for the amount we spend on Højlund. (That was our max price for a striker). Keep in mind, Aston Villa did everything they could to not sell Grealish, and only sold him for a huge amount.

I still can understand why we signed Højlund with the options available. I probably would have Mateta instead too in hindsight, but I'm just not sure he was on our scouts radar.

Well but it seems there were other options. So we should stop making it sound like we had options of Kane for 150m, Hojlund for 80 or Weghorts for 0.
Going for Rasmus was a massive gamble, imo unjustified because 1) he wasn't a stand out player when I watched him and 2) he had good numbers but based on small sample of games.

The point is, the top striker market is dry at the moment, but the "young and promising striker" pool is not. I have massive doubts over the choice we made.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Well but it seems there were other options. So we should stop making it sound like we had options of Kane for 150m, Hojlund for 80 or Weghorts for 0.
Going for Rasmus was a massive gamble, imo unjustified because 1) he wasn't a stand out player when I watched him and 2) he had good numbers but based on small sample of games.

The point is, the top striker market is dry at the moment, but the "young and promising striker" pool is not. I have massive doubts over the choice we made.

But Højlund was touted a "young and prominent striker". No matter what way you look at it, he was touted more as the next big thing instead of Mateta for example. Mateta is easy to say now, but that's hindsight. We also knew that Højlund was/is raw when we signed him, so it wasn't like we expected him to be a World beater here and now. He was and is an ongoing project (that needs service to score goals), but it get's forgotten when we have a terrible season and we're looking to scapegoat someone.

It's the same story year after year. We have a shit season, fans lose patience, pressure is added which leads to bad decisions like buying Casemiro and fans saying "meh, we want a better striker". Eventually I believe Højlund will age well, but it's hard to have a discussion around him here and now in the stage where every fans have lost patience and forgotten that Højlund was never meant to be a shiny succes in year 1.