Qatar or Ineos - which owners would you prefer? | Vote now Private

[Revan]

Have they come remotely close to us in transfer spending in the past 15 years? Nar.

It’s not poor little Manchester United here, that will not wash. We’ve had many many advantages since the start of the PL and the idea we now deserve to be completely debt free with billions in the bank, with a brand new stadium, training centre and academy etc is daft.
We, like everyone else shouldn’t have any problem with paying our way, especially if a company comes in and removes the Glazer debt off the club. Every other club in the World has to.

Except two clubs in EPL (City/Newcastle), or the likes of PSG.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

1. You ever seen the rate you pay on a loan compared to what Bill Gates pays. This will answer your question.

Aye, I bet the richest British man and company with 60bn revenues gets a shit rate.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Except two clubs in EPL (City/Newcastle), or the likes of PSG.

Precisely, the cheating clubs.

 

[Rojofiam]

Such fecking nonsense.

Fergie proved that, despite the owners, league titles are won by managers, not the owners. Arteta looks currently to be proving the same after years of Arsenal fans slating their ownership and desperate for the Spotify guy. Klopp too.

ETH another, proving owners matter little if the right bloke is in charge.

And we can outspend both those clubs even with the Glazers taking dividends all the time...we just need competent people making the footballing decisions + a little investment instead of taking money out of the club...we are so much wealthier than most people seem to realize...we can absolutely return to the glory days without selling our soul for blood money.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And we can outspend both those clubs even with the Glazers taking dividends all the time...we just need competent people making the footballing decisions + a little investment instead of taking money out of the club...we are so much wealthier than most people seem to realize...we can absolutely return to the glory days without selling our soul for blood money.

That’s the frustrating thing.

 

[Revan]

Bro, are you in his bank to know he doesn't have the funds? I am sure they have been asked to provide proof of funds. I am sure those will be double-checked and cross-checked. He has said he will do those things. I don't see why you believe he doesn't have the funds....

Because, his net worth is far less than what the club costs. He also works for a state entity. While being second cousin (kind of) of the current Emir. And the son of Qatari ex-prime minister, who among other things, managed Qatari's sovereign fund (and gave the green light to them to buy PSG).

Obviously, he has some powerful people behind him. People, that at the very least, are completely connected to the state of Qatar. Even more likely, he has Qatar's sovereign fund behind him.

 

[Matthew84!]

Anyone pretending Qatar is the bad option really needs to give their head a wobble and grow up, you think Newcastle fans care? No, Man city fans don't care, stop being childish, the best bid for Utd is the one that makes Utd better, not the one that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

 

[JPRouve]

Except two clubs in EPL (City/Newcastle), or the likes of PSG.

These are not the only clubs in the world in that situation. All these FFP talks have seemingly made people forget that many clubs have owners that finance nearly everything for their clubs. As an example Rennes and Pinault.

 

[Revan]

Precisely, the cheating clubs.

The Jin is out of the bottle though. The only thing worse than being a state-owned club, is having to compete with state-owned clubs while not being a state-own club.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Based on your opinion of their vague PR statement or is there some other information I missed with their detailed plans?

For me what makes me question SJR's bid is the fact that he has teamed up with both Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase to finance the takeover. Having those two onboard is a major red flag itself when it comes to a morally POV (which is neglected for some reason) but mainly for the club's ability to invest in infrastructure and financials in general in the future should the bid be successful. The PR statement didn't exactly inspire confidence in his plans either which seemingly was more about appealing to the nationalists and romantic parts of the fanbase and media. Which is weird because he ran a very good PR campaign back when he seemed like the Messiah.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The Jin is out of the bottle though. The only thing worse than being a state-owned club, is having to compete with state-owned clubs while not being a state-own club.

Nar, Real Madrid have well and truly blown that nonsensical idea out of the water.
Run well, it can and has been done.
And we’re the biggest club in a much bigger league so our possibilities in a Glazer free World are endless.

 

[Revan]

These are not the only clubs in the world in that situation. All these FFP talks have seemingly made people forget that many clubs have owners that finance nearly everything for their clubs. As an example Rennes and Pinault.

Indeed. Or the likes of Milano in the nineties, and Inter in nineties and early two-thousands. Or Madrid getting money from city of Madrid. Or, Barca and Madrid monopolizing TV rights in Spain. Or Bayern...

Virtually, every top club manages to be a top club by not playing fairly. We either have to also not be fair, or win moral trophies while the other club from Manchester wins the real ones.

 

[Mickeza]

Have they come remotely close to us in transfer spending in the past 15 years? Nar.

It’s not poor little Manchester United here, that will not wash.

We’ve posted significant losses the last few years including 120m last year trying to keep up with Manchester City - that meant we couldn’t invest in infrastructure and pay the cost of Glazer ownership hence the 1bn plus bill required now. And when it comes to allowing a leveraged buyout that put obscene levels of debt and PIK repayments on the club it absolutely fecking is poor Manchester United. Without the success and thus income SAF delivered in those years we’d have been monumentally fecked. And nobody gave a shite.

 

[Mainoldo]

Aye, I bet the richest British man and company with 60bn revenues gets a shit rate.

He doesn’t get it from the same place the Qatar’s get it from which I thought was 1 of the big issues about this state owned club?

Or does the State owned thing not bother you.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We’ve posted significant losses the last few years including 120m last year trying to keep up with Manchester Cit

Think the pandemic had something to do with that.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He doesn’t get it from the same place the Qatar’s get it from which I thought was 1 of the big issues about this state owned club?

Or does the State owned thing not bother you.

eh?

 

[red thru&thru]

Right. So it boils down to that City needed an infusion of oil money to become a great club, while we need an infusion of oil money to remain one? So obviously, we're completely different? Sorry mate, I don't think that line of argument is going to find a lot of takers, even in our own ranks.

"Simple". What I tried to invite you to consider is that cooking the books might not be the only reason they are now bringing in more revenue than any other club in the world.

No, what I'm saying is, City needed to cook their books to become relevant.

Manchester United don't need to cook their books to become relevant.

Yes, some of their money is made genuinely. However, when they proclaimed to have made more money than Real Madrid, who have been serial CL winners, you know something isn't correct.

 

[Revan]

Nar, Real Madrid have well and truly blown that nonsensical idea out of the water.
Run well, it can and has been done.
And we’re the biggest club in a much bigger league so our possibilities in a Glazer free World are endless.

Are you talking for the same club who fecked the rest of the league (together with Barca), by doing individual TV rights? The same club who bough some land for 500k from city of Madrid, and sold it for 20m? The same one who is in debt trying to compete with City and co., and now needs a Superleague (which fecks most of the European clubs) to get out of trouble.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Are you talking for the same club who fecked the rest of the league (together with Barca), by doing individual TV rights? The same club who bough some land for 500k from city of Madrid, and sold it for 20m? The same one who is in debt trying to compete with City and co., and now needs a Superleague (which fecks most of the European clubs) to get out of trouble.

So much wrong here.

Come on Rev, go read about Madrid’s in fact, brilliant finances.

 

[troylocker]

So, it's OK to poison the Earth? Can't agree with you there, I'm afraid.

,.....but you will accept money from Qatar who has the 2nd biggest CO2 footprint per capita in the world, and has been accused of greenwashing themselves? Qatar controls 13% of the worlds total fossil natural gas reserves and has huge oil reserves.....
Greenwashing and polution is a problem, both when it comes to Ineos and Qatar.

 

[mufcwarm92]

I haven't commented for years but thought it was as good a time as any to dust off the account and chime in.

I'm pretty shocked at this poll tbh. Maybe I'm in an echo chamber of my own making but among my mates and everyone I've spoken with that sit near me I don't really know anyone pro Qatar. I'm struggling to see how any rational fan can bring themselves to that viewpoint. I've seen the noise on social media from 'fans' but I've never taken much notice of the anonymous fan account brigade and would tend to go elsewhere for United opinions worth caring about. This forum doesn't exactly have a reputation for matchgoers but from my experience I would expect a rational debate so it's sad to see the poll the way it is.

I have absolutely no envy towards the likes of City and Newcastle. They sold their souls to sportswashing but it was the only way they could become relevant. We just don't need that. We need to rid ourselves of the leaches that have held us back for the last 20 years and get someone in who can let the club run itself without interference and spend the vast sums of money it generates. There is no perfect owner, but being the mouthpiece of a human rights abusing petro state is an utterly miserable way to reach that outcome and I'm shocked anyone with an affection for the club could ever support that.

The idea that this Qatar bid is disconnected from the state is utter nonsense and I'm sure most of you will accept that. The racism card I'm seeing quite a few people playing is also pretty desperate. The playbook of sportswashing is now well established and this is how it starts, every time. There are already signs of people making any excuse they can find to justify it. As above there is no perfect bid, and the Ratcliffe/INEOS one is no exception, but much of the whataboutism being spewed around is a miserable attempt to bury the obvious issues with the Qatar bid. I'm praying we somehow escape this and the deal is blocked. I'm sure there are several bids yet to go public, but in the event of a bidding war it's hard to see any other outcome than Qatari ownership.

I've had my season ticket for 15 years now and several of the lads I go with have had theirs for decades more, and we'll never stop following United across the country, but a little bit of the club will die if this happens and it will never feel the same. I'm not trying to descend this into one of those bs arguments - I know my opinion means no more than the next guy - but I think most matchgoing fans have a connection with the club that's completely different to those watching from afar. We've all campaigned against the Glazers for years and it will be an amazing moment when we finally rid ourselves of them, but United of all clubs don't need to sell our souls in the process. We can and should challenge these things. Miguel Delaney has spouted some utter dross over the years but he's spot on around this issue and is doing more to protect our reputation than many people calling themselves 'fans'.

 

[Revan]

No, what I'm saying is, City needed to cook their books to become relevant.

Manchester United don't need to cook their books to become relevant.

Yes, some of their money is made genuinely. However, when they proclaimed to have made more money than Real Madrid, who have been serial CL winners, you know something isn't correct.

If we want to compete with City (who is cooking their books and will continue doing so), yes we have to. There is no universe where United builds a stadium with their own money, clears the debt with their own money, and somehow is competitive with City and co.

 

[Revan]

So much wrong here.

Come on Rev, go read about Madrid’s in fact, brilliant finances.

Yeah, primarily made by fecking the rest of the league. Which is not allowed in England thankfully.

Why do they insist in the Superleague then?

 

[Mainoldo]

eh?

He’s not loaning his money from a bloody bank you can Google like Jim will be.

 

[Mickeza]

Think the pandemic had something to do with that.

In last years losses?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If we want to compete with City (who is cooking their books and will continue doing so), yes we have to. There is no universe where United builds a stadium with their own money, clears the debt with their own money, and somehow is competitive with City and co.

The universe where City get relegated to league 2 though.

 

[Zlatattack]

Maybe I should do a series of polls...

Manchester Vs Rest of the UK
Qatar - Manchester based fans
Ineos - Manchester based fans
Qatar - Non Manchester UK based fans
Ineos - Non Manchester UK based fans

&

UK vs International fans
Qatar - International fans
Ineos -International fans
Qatar - UK based fans
Ineos - UK based fans

&

Fans by Continent
Qatar - European - (non UK)
Ineos - European - (non UK)
Qatar - Asian
Ineos - Asian
Qatar - African
Ineos - African
Qatar - N.American
Ineos - N.American
Qatar - S.American
Ineos - S.American
Qatar - Oceania
Ineos - Oceania


&

Season ticket holders vs non season ticket holders
Qatar - Season Ticket Holder
Ineos - Season Ticket Holder
Qatar - Non Season Ticket Holder
Ineos - Non Season Ticket Holder

&

Muslim fans Vs Non Muslim fans
Qatar - Muslim fan
Ineos - Muslim fan
Qatar - Non Muslim fan
Ineos - Non Muslim fan

&

Liberals Vs Conservatives
Qatar - Liberal
Ineos - Liberal
Qatar - Conservative
Ineos - Conservative

This is probably more research than most sports Journalists do.

 

[red thru&thru]

If we want to compete with City (who is cooking their books and will continue doing so), yes we have to. There is no universe where United builds a stadium with their own money, clears the debt with their own money, and somehow is competitive with City and co.

We've competed so far. And as far as I'm aware, ffp doesn't restrict the owners spending on their stadium, etc.

So, we don't need to cook the books.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah, primarily made by fecking the rest of the league. Which is not allowed in England thankfully.

feck me Rev, wrong again….

Do you know anything about La Liga and Real’s finances before commenting?

The Super league… probably because they think it’s a great idea, because they don’t want UEFA, a corrupt as feck organisation running the biggest competition and because, like all companies/clubs, they want more money.

Make no mistake though Real Madrid have remained the premier team in Europe by some distance, despite state ownership competition. Don’t just ignore that to pretend it cannot be done by the biggest clubs.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

In last years losses?

Aye.

 

[Mainoldo]

Liberals Vs Conservatives
Qatar - Liberal
Ineos - Liberal
Qatar - Conservative
Ineos - Conservative

This is probably more research than most sports Journalists do.

Do this one. Will be interesting to see if there is a correlation.

 

[Mainoldo]

We've competed so far. And as far as I'm aware, ffp doesn't restrict the owners spending on their stadium, etc.

So, we don't need to cook the books.

Competed at what exactly?

 

[Mickeza]

Aye.

Revenues last year were only 30m less than in 2018. I think that 120m loss had more to do with the record EPL wage bill myself.

 

[MackRobinson]

1. You ever seen the rate you pay on a loan compared to what Bill Gates pays. This will answer your question.
2. No it means we spent as much as City whilst having a leaking roof and out of date facilities.

This is why I hate having normal conversations with people who can’t see the wood for the trees.

Why people believe Ineos can do this without loans and restricting our spending power is bizarre.

Those goalposts you're hauling around must be made of paper.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Revenues last year were only 30m less than in 2018. I think that 120m loss had more to do with the record EPL wage bill myself.

Lack of pre-season tour cost the club up to 40-50m.

 

[MackRobinson]

For me what makes me question SJR's bid is the fact that he has teamed up with both Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase to finance the takeover. Having those two onboard is a major red flag itself when it comes to a morally POV (which is neglected for some reason) but mainly for the club's ability to invest in infrastructure and financials in general in the future should the bid be successful. The PR statement didn't exactly inspire confidence in his plans either which seemingly was more about appealing to the nationalists and romantic parts of the fanbase and media. Which is weird because he ran a very good PR campaign back when he seemed like the Messiah.

As opposed to whatever Qatari bank finances their takeover? Surely, you don't think the Qatari's have £5B laying around?

 

[red thru&thru]

Competed at what exactly?

Transfer spend.

 

[Mainoldo]

Those goalposts you're hauling around must be made of paper.

Sorry let me clarify. We have to pay the loan back!!!!!

The Qatarian’s. It’s a gift, which they may reclaim if some Roman Ibramovich type situation happens but even then I’m sure it will be included in the price.

 

[Mainoldo]

Transfer spend.

That’s very true. But how do we build/revamp a stadium and improve the facilities whilst competing in the transfer market?

 

[justsomebloke]

Liberals Vs Conservatives
Qatar - Liberal
Ineos - Liberal
Qatar - Conservative
Ineos - Conservative

This is probably more research than most sports Journalists do.

A division into "Liberals" and "Conservatives" isn't really a thing in Europe though?