Pretty much like Putin then....
Putin and Russia in Syria
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Pretty much like Putin then....
Again, no idea. I've literally read nothing about Putin and Russia outside of the usual stories.
You can't ask for a better expert than Raoul for a first hand experience of living under Putin's dictatorship.
Check out Putin's Kleptocracy by Karen Dawisha. Great read in terms of explaining the inner workings of Putin's government which sheds a lot of light on his foreign policy actions in places like Crimea, Georgia, Donbass, and Syria.
That is the problem with dictatorships, you can't trust people who live under them either.
I'll make sure to check it out. For such a big and powerful country, it's shameful how little I know about it.
I wouldn't trust the majority of people, regardless of the system they live under.
Raoul and his obsession with Putin."Putin went into Syria, because he has problems at home!"
"Putin pulled out of Syria, because he has problems at home!"
Anyway, jokes and obsessions aside, I was actually expecting something like that when I read this a couple of weeks ago.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-envoy-idUSKCN0VR240
I was born in Russia, lived there until I was 25, then moved to NYC and have lived in the States for 15 years between 1997 and 2012, the last four years I'm mostly back in Russia, but I visit the US regularly so I know the situation from both sides. Of course, I'm biased, just like everyone else, but at least I know firsthand what I'm talking about.
Speaking of dictatorships, Russia enjoys much more democracy than say China or Gulf states, the countries the USA and its European allies don't seem to have too many problems with.
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They would have problems with China and the Gulf states if they invaded and seized parts of Ukraine though wouldn't they?
I am concerned with the direction of travel inside Russian politics. Putin hasn't been a friend to democracy or free speech and although I'm sure Russians have more personal freedoms than during the days of the USSR he has definitely moved to silence internal criticism and promote propaganda as fact.
You might not mind this while you agree with Putin's actions and narrative but when he goes and one day he will you might not like the next guy so much, at which point you are screwed.
I am concerned with the direction of travel inside Russian politics. Putin hasn't been a friend to democracy or free speech and although I'm sure Russians have more personal freedoms than during the days of the USSR he has definitely moved to silence internal criticism and promote propaganda as fact.
You might not mind this while you agree with Putin's actions and narrative but when he goes and one day he will you might not like the next guy so much, at which point you are screwed.
They don't have a problem with Saudi Arabian intervention in Yemen, do they? When inevitably China will start flexing their muscles they'll have a very tough challenge dealing with them, too. How are you going to sanction China?
As far as comparing the USSR to modern Russia, you can't be serious, it's on a different planet in terms of personal freedoms. I was 20 when the Soviet Union ceased to exist, so I remember what it was like very well.
It's easy for the US to impose sanctions on Russia being that there was barely any trade between the two prior to that so Americans don't feel a thing as a result. European business has actually been suffering some serious losses because they're much more involved with Russia economically, but politically they're entirely dependent on the Americans so they have no choice but to follow the US orders.
Yemen is a failed state in the middle of a civil war and I don't agree with Saudi actions there.
Putin started the civil war in Ukraine and then directly intervened militarily. I don't agree with Putin's actions there.
The Chinese Govt is the most dangerous threat to political and civil rights in the world today. It denies the human rights of more people than any other Govt and is directly opposed to any measure of political reform. How the west deals with that is going to define this century.
I don't think it helps in trying to encourage political reform to have people excuse the actions of Putin as he moves Russia backwards and away from the rule of law, free speech and democracy. You have excused his actions and as such you have no platform to criticise US actions, Saudi actions or the treatment of Chinese dissidents and reformers in the future without either admitting you are wrong or making yourself a massive hypocrite.
I guess it all comes down to what kind of world you want to see. I don't think you care as long as Putin controls more of it.
Putin started the civil war in Ukraine and then directly intervened militarily. I don't agree with Putin's actions there.
The Chinese Govt is the most dangerous threat to political and civil rights in the world today. It denies the human rights of more people than any other Govt and is directly opposed to any measure of political reform. How the west deals with that is going to define this century.
I don't think it helps in trying to encourage political reform to have people excuse the actions of Putin as he moves Russia backwards and away from the rule of law, free speech and democracy. You have excused his actions and as such you have no platform to criticise US actions, Saudi actions or the treatment of Chinese dissidents and reformers in the future without either admitting you are wrong or making yourself a massive hypocrite.
I guess it all comes down to what kind of world you want to see. I don't think you care as long as Putin controls more of it.
Won't the Chinese define themselves too though? Enormous numbers of Chinese students studying in Europe and UK now, for example. While they might come in thinking their government are great, they get a hell of an eyeopener after living here for a while. Some of that has to make them question what goes on at home.
I hope so and historically that is what happens as countries expand their middle class and get wealthier but we can't pretend there isn't an issue. China's govt is an authoritarian single party state with a stated goal of remaining so and it has colonised its neighbour in Tibet which it intends to continue to colonise and rule.
What does Yemen being a failed state has to do with American ally invading it and making war there? It just looks that for all the talk from the western powers about the rule of law, free speech and democracy they only use them as an excuse to pick and choose who to label a bad guy depending on their geopolitical interests. Ukraine is also a failed state in the middle of a civil war. Russia is interfering and is supporting the rebels, but majority of the fighters on both sides are Ukrainians. That's what the western propaganda fails to mention time and again when they're too busy screaming about Russian aggression.
I don't excuse Putin's actions, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy on the part of the West when he's been constantly demonized. Putin defends Russia's interests the way he sees it. He's just reacting to what he perceives as a threat to his country. NATO issue alone should be enough to convince anybody who isn't totally biased that he has the right no to trust the West's intentions. Did he break the international law? Sure he did. So did many of the 'leaders of the free world' and their loyal allies when they were either ignoring/approving/taking part in all kinds of horrible acts from Yugoslavia to Iraq to Libya, etc. If Putin is a criminal, then so are the long line of the US presidents and quite a few European leaders.
You have been doing nothing but excusing his actions in Crimea and Donbass for the past 18 months. But since we're on the topic, are you finally prepared to condemn his illegal annexation of Crimea ? And are you finally prepared to admit there have been thousands of Russian troops and heavy arms in Donbass for the past 12 months ? What about the shoot down of MH17, are you prepared to admit it was shot down by the Russian military ? If as you say, you "don't excuse Putin's actions", then these topics would be a great place to start.
Be prepared for one sentence about Putin and several paragraphs about what other nations have done.
Apart from annexation which technically did take place (although the referendum did happen afterwards), none of what you mentioned is proved true. There's no proof of the presence of "thousands of Russian troops in Donbass". The investigation of the MH17 is not concluded yet, so the results are not in yet, unless you confuse them with the investigation you have conducted in your head.
Back to square one.Apart from annexation 
No excuses for Putin there, absolutely none.
No excuses for Putin there, absolutely none.
Are you prepared to condemn the illegal actions of the US, NATO and many of our allies over the plethora of illegal military operations, invasions, actions and who knows how many other things we've done? It's a two way street chum. You live in a simple little world. My side good. That side bad. It isn't a question of right and wrong if you're not willing to look at what both sides are doing without bias.
Is what Russia doing in Crimea wrong? Sure. Is what we were/are doing in Ukraine wrong? Yep. So long as we continually move the goal posts, continually interfere, over throw governments, invade countries on a whim based on lies to further our regional geopolitical ambitions you cannot hold other countries solely responsible for their actions when we are more often than not the reason for their reactions. This is a case of throwing stones in glass houses.
So when are you going to finally condemn all the illegal and vile shite we do around the world? So I will return to that original question. Is what Russia doing in Crimea wrong? According to who? According to us? If it's according to our government, then I'd say it's pretty restrained and totally legal
. Of course you subscribe to the USA foreign policy of do as I say not as I do. The irony here, is that the greatest war criminal of the last 20 years isn't Milosevic. If any other country was responsible for Iraq 2, their leadership would have been hauled off to the Hague (by us no less) and tried and convicted of who knows how many illegal activities. We can start right at the top. Waging illegal war of aggression. Oh, right, I forgot, we made it legal by perjuring ourselves.Now here is where I blow your mind. I had no problem with Iraq 2. I just wish they would have been honest about why we went in. The ridiculously thin casus belli that we manufactured was so much worse than the truth. On the other hand, I do have a problem with how it was managed. Simpletons ran that war. People with no vision or understanding of the region ran it. I'm sure there were very smart people on the ground telling the people in charge what would happen, but they were obviously overruled. It's a shame, and it's completely telling of how our foreign policy works.
Are you prepared to condemn the illegal actions of the US, NATO and many of our allies over the plethora of illegal military operations, invasions, actions and who knows how many other things we've done? It's a two way street chum. You live in a simple little world. My side good. That side bad. It isn't a question of right and wrong if you're not willing to look at what both sides are doing without bias.
Is what Russia doing in Crimea wrong? Sure. Is what we were/are doing in Ukraine wrong? Yep. So long as we continually move the goal posts, continually interfere, over throw governments, invade countries on a whim based on lies to further our regional geopolitical ambitions you cannot hold other countries solely responsible for their actions when we are more often than not the reason for their reactions. This is a case of throwing stones in glass houses.
So when are you going to finally condemn all the illegal and vile shite we do around the world? So I will return to that original question. Is what Russia doing in Crimea wrong? According to who? According to us? If it's according to our government, then I'd say it's pretty restrained and totally legal
Now here is where I blow your mind. I had no problem with Iraq 2. I just wish they would have been honest about why we went in. The ridiculously thin casus belli that we manufactured was so much worse than the truth.
Yes, I have no problem criticizing US actions, or those by allied countries, including those i supported at the time.
If the US administration would take a huge dump in the middle of the UN, you´d tell us, that it is gold. It is funny, that you have so little understanding for antihenry. You are both patriotic nationalists, that love to defend their country.
I'm neither patriotic nor a nationalist. Conversely, I'm also not an intellectually flaccid moral relativist who is interested in giving Putin a pass because other countries have done bad things.
The last few pages seem to be mostly point scoring on behalf of the American and Russian posters.
Well done gentlemen.
Well done gentlemen.
China wants to own all the South China Sea for themselves, disputing an island with Japan and we keep giving money to them, buying their shit, giving out our technology, we may need Russia one day.
From Russia
USA
Because I wasn't born in USA but is my new country I will vote as a Portuguese and my vote goes to the Russian women
No, you're just an arrogant hypocrite who believes his country can do no wrong because it has more money and bigger army than everyone else out there.
Back to the actual topic. You advertised yourself as not defending Putin's actions then proceeded to defend Putin's actions. There's a spot in the Donald Trump campaign for you.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-tho...e-six-years-prison-under-proposed-law-1549897
I guess I better not go to Russia.
I guess I better not go to Russia.
First of all, you're the one wandering around taking the high ground, criticizing others and talking about dictatorships. It's you who are the hypocrite when your government supports dictatorships.
Second, the US government and the UK government are not only allied with Saudi Arabia, they're providing them with the bombs they're killing the Yemenis (among others) with. If you really want to fix the world start with your country. It should be easier since you have democracy, right?
Yes I want to see everyone have a vote in who governs them.Damn me for it if you want but I think that is the high ground and people like you who don't understand that are dangerously misguided.
I don't want my gov't to support dictatorship or repression. You on the other hand just want my gov't to choose a different dictator to support doing exactly the same things but to different people. I can't understand that position it is inherently self defeating.
There is nothing easy about democracy it just beats all other forms of government.
Interestingly, there are a good number of people who advance the idea that various middle eastern states can't be Democratic and are best governed by dictators...well because dictators are preferable to ISIS. This doesn't however address the fundamental human aspiration to have a say in how their lives are governed, which is why the likes of Assad, Putin, Khamenei, and the rest of them will eventually go the way of the Dodo bird.
It's not that they can't be democratic, but rather forcing democracy upon them by pulling the rug under their current political infrastructure simply doesn't work. It hasn't worked in Iraq, nor in Libya nor anywhere else where there's been a forceful removal of a dictator, so there's no reason to suggest it'll work in Syria or anywhere else for that matter. You may consider the notion of prefering a despotic strongman outlandish, but if you were to speak to the people in the region, you'd be surprised by just how many prefer the stability and secularism of a secular dicatorship over the volatility and unpredictability of a new vacuum opening up.
The opposite of promoting Democracy is what though ? Tacitly promoting continued Dictatorship ?
Its not an either/or case. Democracy should be organically implemented by the people of a nation, not externally forced using sheer military leverage. That's not to say we should be praising the virtues of dictatorship, but it also means we shouldn't always get involved.