PSR Loopholes

[SilentWitness]

"Chelsea buys Kellyman off Villa for £20m, despite his valuation being £1m"

What on earth is she rambling about? An 18 year old English forward who has started in the Prem is valued at £1m? By who? Someone who just woke up from a 20 year coma?

She just took the values off of transfermarkt which is fecking daft. Value of a player is whatever the selling club deems it to be.

 

[RedRocket9908]

She just took the values off of transfermarkt which is fecking daft. Value of a player is whatever the selling club deems it to be.

Transfermarkt is a reliable source for these things though

 

[caid]

She just took the values off of transfermarkt which is fecking daft. Value of a player is whatever the selling club deems it to be.

Normally that would be a fair point. It clearly doesn't apply here or with most of these swap deals.

 

[Oranges038]

And at that point the growth plateaus and it becomes a mature market. That doesn't make it a bubble.

Aye, so it's not a bubble.

It's just starting to slowly deflate.

 

[NotThatSoph]

She just took the values off of transfermarkt which is fecking daft. Value of a player is whatever the selling club deems it to be.

It's also just contradictory. The whole point of inflating transfer fees in swap deals is that you do it for all deals, if not then one club is just giving the other money for no reason. If the Transfermarkt value is the "real" value, and the fee is artificially inflated by around £18m, then they will also have inflated the Maatsen fee by the same amount. That means that he's not actually valued at £40m, but £22m. Transfermarkt values Maatsen at €40m, which is £34m. 12m off. It is logically impossible for both of transfermarkt's valuations to be "correct".

 

[duffer]

Transfermarkt is a reliable source for these things though

They value Garnacho at £38 million. Is that realistic? You'd rightly laugh your arses off is you received an offer of that.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Normally that would be a fair point. It clearly doesn't apply here or with most of these swap deals.

20 million for Kellyman is way over-priced, he has made only 6 senior appearances including 2 in the EPL which were both short substitute appearances late in games.

 

[SilentWitness]

Transfermarkt is a reliable source for these things though

Not really. Its a number they've plucked at their own discretion.

Normally that would be a fair point. It clearly doesn't apply here or with most of these swap deals.

No, which is why it's even dafter to use it as a comparison.

 

[duffer]

20 million for Kellyman is way over-priced, he has made only 6 senior appearances including 2 in the EPL which were both short substitute appearances late in games.

It's about 10 mil over. Same as the Maatsen one.

This is obviously a dodge but saying he's worth 1 mil is insane.

 

[Solius]

Chelsea are running rings round the league.

All these workarounds and risk of punishment to finish 8th and 6th as well.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

PSR is the Premier League's version of UEFA's FFP.

Thanks. So English teams are supposed to abide by both?

 

[duffer]

All these workarounds and risk of punishment to finish 8th and 6th as well.

3 more years of it and we're champions.

 

[duffer]

Thanks. So English teams are supposed to abide by both?

The ones in European competitions do.

 

[Solius]

3 more years of it and we're champions.

Technically on that trajectory you’d finish 0th. Even better.

 

[duffer]

Technically on that trajectory you’d finish 0th. Even better.

Off to the Super League with you lot by then.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Technically on that trajectory you’d finish 0th. Even better.

Would that be like dividing by zero? So the entire English football league system would just cease to exist?

 

[Solius]

Would that be like dividing by zero? So the entire English football league system would just cease to exist?

Probably for the best at this point.

 

[Bale Bale Bale]

It's about 10 mil over. Same as the Maatsen one.

This is obviously a dodge but saying he's worth 1 mil is insane.

Had you ever heard of him until yesterday?

 

[caid]

It's about 10 mil over. Same as the Maatsen one.

This is obviously a dodge but saying he's worth 1 mil is insane.

I think United fans are used to a drastically different price when selling players vs Chelsea supporters. Not that it matters, its a dodge as you say. Transfermarket price is pretty consistently low though, thats fair.
Would be a pity if it disrupted Maatsen but with European football he'll probably get games even as a second choice.

 

[duffer]

Had you ever heard of him until yesterday?

He played in a few televised games last season so yeah.

I'm not going to pretend to know much about him though.

Even if I had never heard of him, saying an 18 year old English forward who has played in the premier League is worth £1 million is ridiculous.

 

[Spaghetti Bolognese]

He played in a few televised games last season so yeah.

I'm not going to pretend to know much about him though.

Even if I had never heard of him, saying an 18 year old English forward who has played in the premier League is worth £1 million is ridiculous.

We (United) have sold PL appearance makers for less.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Villa Chelsea and Everton need to be punished for these deals. Else this balancing book deals will become the norm

 

[duffer]

Villa Chelsea and Everton need to be punished for these deals. Else this balancing book deals will become the norm

Punished for breaking which rule specifically?

 

[Snow]

Villa Chelsea and Everton need to be punished for these deals. Else this balancing book deals will become the norm

Nah. You just need to create rules that make sense. At this point it won't matter. You've already allowed billionaires to take over the sport. Their resources are bigger.

 

[Solius]

Villa Chelsea and Everton need to be punished for these deals. Else this balancing book deals will become the norm

They can’t be punished. It’s within the rules even though it’s dodgy as feck. PL should’ve seen this coming but they’re lagging behind as usual.

 

[SilentWitness]

Villa Chelsea and Everton need to be punished for these deals. Else this balancing book deals will become the norm

I think you should be punished for spending so much on Antony when his transfermarkt value is only 25m. Dodgy.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I think you should be punished for spending so much on Antony when his transfermarkt value is only 25m. Dodgy.

we get punished every time he steps onto the pitch.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Villa Chelsea and Everton need to be punished for these deals. Else this balancing book deals will become the norm

Which rule(s) did they break?

 

[Chipper]

Villa Chelsea and Everton need to be punished for these deals. Else this balancing book deals will become the norm

No rules broken as far as I'm aware.

The nearest I could come up with, but I'm almost certain it wouldn't stick would be the rules surrounding clubs or owners having financial interest in other clubs. They kind of have by entering these kinds of agreements but I don't think it breaches the actual wording of the rules at all.

Either way, i don't like what these are doing, not because of they're finding loopholes, all they're ultimately doing is delaying things and can still encounter problems down the line if they don't correct themselves. That's assuming these rules are even in place by then.

It's more from that point of view of having interest in others. Clubs teaming up together in this way can not only decide who they'd work in co-operation with to help each other past FFP regulations but also who they wouldn't. If another club approached one of these with a view to doing similar transfers should they find themselves in a similar position they could all decide that they actually want this other team to be deducted points and that they're not going to help them out. You could end up with little cliques of teams operating in each others interests and gaining competetive advanatge over who they decide to exclude. I see it as very dangerous from that perspective as boardroom alliances could easily start affecting the league table.

 

[RuudTom83]

Finding ways around a rule you don’t like just leads to more rules being introduced.

But I find myself caring less and less about football. Why even bother fighting back.

 

[Acrobat7]

She just took the values off of transfermarkt which is fecking daft. Value of a player is whatever the selling club deems it to be.

So Arthur Melo was a 70m player?
If it was a one-way deal, I‘d agree with you. But since there are several “player swap plus cash“ deals happening it is obviously not about the pure player value.

 

[SilentWitness]

So Arthur Melo was a 70m player?
If it was a one-way deal, I‘d agree with you. But since there are several “player swap plus cash“ deals happening it is obviously not about the pure player value.

Yes. Value of the player is what the club deems it to be. That's correct whether it's a value they've made up due to a swap deal, due to the market they have assessed, the quality of the player, their potential etc.

 

[Acrobat7]

Yes. Value of the player is what the club deems it to be. That's correct whether it's a value they've made up due to a swap deal, due to the market they have assessed, the quality of the player, their potential etc.

Then we are talking about semantics. For me the „real“ value is not dependent on swaps or other circumstances but what the price would be in a vacuum. All deals going on before July 1 are simply for the sake of managing the books.

 

[SilentWitness]

Then we are talking about semantics. For me the „real“ value is not dependent on swaps or other circumstances but what the price would be in a vacuum. All deals going on before July 1 are simply for the sake of managing the books.

My point largely is that you shouldn't use transfermarkt as a be all and end all value for players. Like stats and fbref, they are a good reference point, but need to be taken in a wider context of other variables.

 

[dcrompton]

We (United) have sold PL appearance makers for less.

We have only ever sold 7 players for more than the £19m quoted for Kellyman, in our entire history!

 

[Acrobat7]

My point largely is that you shouldn't use transfermarkt as a be all and end all value for players. Like stats and fbref, they are a good reference point, but need to be taken in a wider context of other variables.

On that we are in 100% agreement. I would expect the league to introduce an anmendment to the rules next summer, since the clubs are obvioisly toying with them.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Like I said, if thsse rules also protected clubs against Venkys/Oyston type owners then fine, but it doesn't.

Glazer type owners as well.

 

[Solius]

We have only ever sold 7 players for more than the £19m quoted for Kellyman, in our entire history!

Now that’s pretty mental.

 

[Acrobat7]

We have only ever sold 7 players for more than the £19m quoted for Kellyman, in our entire history!

Only 9 for Bayern and I have no idea what a Kellyman is or does.

 

[FootballHQ]

There's over inflation for sure.

However it's been going on for years. Man. City must've made 100m from all the young players Southampton have signed off them in the last 5 years.

Gunn, Larios, Edozie, Shay Charles, Lavia, Harwood-Bellis. Lavia their most successful signing and he only played about three months Football before they sold him to Chelsea.

Watford have also sold bit part players in their relegation squads to Udinese for 10m +. I believe that's something you can't do anymore (e.g. Todibo) but Forest also started doing it with Olympiakos.

Does feel the right time now to tweak the FFP rules and it should be more based on revenue caps perhaps as is more the case with UEFA competitions.