Prime Hazard or Prime Salah?

[ThierryHenry14]

No one denies Hazard was a really talented footballer and I wish he had Ronaldo's work ethic and dedication. To pick between prime Hazard and prime Salah to me it is a relatively easy pick. Only the top team can afford these two players at their prime, and goals win you games.

 

[devaneios]

Not when it correlates with the chance creation.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created

Salah has been in the top 10 players creating big chances every season in the league for the last 6 years, and he's leading the list this current season.

Salah is the main force in Liverpool's attack either scoring or creating chances and assisting. The idea Hazard is a lot better creator than Salah is just a fantasy. In 2018/2019 when they played together in the league, the difference was only 2 big chances created between both, Hazard created 18 and Salah 16.

Do you know how they evaluate Chances Created? It's the number of assists plus the number of key passes.

Do you know how they evaluate Key Passes? It's a pass that leads to a shot by the player who receives it, but doesn't finish in a goal.

 

[Amar__]

This is a no contest, really. I am actually surprised it reached 15 pages.

Salah could potentially finish his career as PL best player ever(hopefully not though), and Hazard will be remembered as one of many good players who played in PL. And Hazard was really average player in Champions league.

 

[el3mel]

Do you know how they evaluate Chances Created? It's the number of assists plus the number of key passes.

Do you know how they evaluate Key Passes? It's a pass that leads to a shot by the player who receives it, but doesn't finish in a goal.

So you want to basically invalidate all possible stats that prove our points and just believe your heart ?

 

[devaneios]

So you want to basically invalidate all possible stats that prove our points and just believe your heart ?

Oh, I'm sorry for not accepting dumbed-down views(like "football creativity = the last passe before a shot") that make it much easier to reach conclusions; it's, in fact, a habit that makes life worse.

 

[erikcred]

This is a no contest, really. I am actually surprised it reached 15 pages.

Salah could potentially finish his career as PL best player ever(hopefully not though), and Hazard will be remember as one of many good players who played in PL. And Hazard was really average player in Champions league.

It only reached so many pages because a couple of people really really like dribbling.

Knowing our luck, Salah will turn down the Saudi deal next summer and find a new peak at Liverpool.

 

[Dancfc]

No one denies Hazard was a really talented footballer and I wish he had Ronaldo's work ethic and dedication. To pick between prime Hazard and prime Salah to me it is a relatively easy pick. Only the top team can afford these two players at their prime, and goals win you games.

As an Arsenal fan who enjoyed Dennis Bergkamp for a decade you should be the last fanbase of earth to judge attacking players purely on goal stats.

 

[Dancfc]

It only reached so many pages because a couple of people really really like dribbling.

Knowing our luck, Salah will turn down the Saudi deal next summer and find a new peak at Liverpool.

It's reached this far largely due to idiotic posts like this that imply that was all he was good at.

 

[Frank Grimes]

This is a really close one, surprised people think it should be a landslide. It's prime v prime remember.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Hazard's the more talented player, but Salah is easier to port in top class teams.

Go through all of the best teams in the last decade and Salah's a better fit for the majority of them.

 

[Rightnr]

Hazard could put a whole team on his back and literally win games for Chelsea.

Salah's good in terms of goal-scoring but he's not Hazard.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

As an Arsenal fan who enjoyed Dennis Bergkamp for a decade you should be the last fanbase of earth to judge attacking players purely on goal stats.

And I will still pick Salah over Hazard, just like I will pick Henry over Bergkamp if I have to choose one between them.

Hazard had his prime season in 18/19 with Chelsea, moved to RM in summer and showed up in preseason overweight with a big tummy. It is easy to pick Salah.

 

[Pickle85]

Hazard's the more talented player, but Salah is easier to port in top class teams.

Go through all of the best teams in the last decade and Salah's a better fit for the majority of them.

How is hazard the more talented player? It's literally just because his style of play is more aesthetically pleasing.

It's reached this far largely due to idiotic posts like this that imply that was all he was good at.

Not sure you're entirely objective on this one...

 

[Pickle85]

How is hazard the more talented player? It's literally just because his style of play is more aesthetically pleasing.

Not sure you're entirely objective on this one...

This is a bit bullish, in fairness. What I mean is that 'talent' is a very subjective and unquantifiable metric that, in my opinion at least, often comes down to the eye test. Some people privilege more creative passers and prettier dribblers over prolific goal scorers - two areas where Hazard edges Salah for sure. That said, the difference between them on that front is MUCH narrower than the difference between them the other way around, in terms of scoring and all round productivity which is why Salah takes it for me.

 

[devaneios]

This is a bit bullish, in fairness. What I mean is that 'talent' is a very subjective and unquantifiable metric that, in my opinion at least, often comes down to the eye test. Some people privilege more creative passers and prettier dribblers over prolific goal scorers - two areas where Hazard edges Salah for sure. That said, the difference between them on that front is MUCH narrower than the difference between them the other way around, in terms of scoring and all round productivity which is why Salah takes it for me.

It's, at least, hyperbolic.

What's "all round productivity"? Shots and final passes? Do you think that receving the ball in a safe zone for the opposite team and carrying it to the edge of the box isn't productive? Does it just start to be "production" in the final third?

Salah is nowhere near Hazard in close control and making quick link up plays in tight spaces, things more related to AMs or even CMs, meanwhile the egyptian is much better at things related to forwards(pure pace, offensive off ball movement, etc). I don't even think that Hazard's shooting ability was inferior; he just didn't have as many opportunities to finish plays(for both: he had more responsabilities and wasn't as good at attacking without the ball).

 

[Camilo]

I honestly thought Hazard was pretty ineffective more often than not. He never scored or created enough. Salah is at it every week.

 

[Pickle85]

It's, at least, hyperbolic.

What's "all round productivity"? Shots and final passes? Do you think that receving the ball in a safe zone for the opposite team and carrying it to the edge of the box isn't productive? Does it just start to be "production" in the final third?

Salah is nowhere near Hazard in close control and making quick link up plays in tight spaces, things more related to AMs or even CMs, meanwhile the egyptian is much better at things related to forwards(pure pace, offensive off ball movement, etc). I don't even think that Hazard's shooting ability was inferior; he just didn't have as many opportunities to finish plays(for both: he had more responsabilities and wasn't as good at attacking without the ball).

Salah absolutely is close to Hazard in terms of close control and quick link up. At Hazard best, I agree he was better, but Salah isn't miles away. Where's Hazard is miles away from Salah in terms of end product. Even he said he should be scoring more than he did, so I'm not sure why you seem to disagree.

Also, the bit about shooting ability is laughable, I'm afraid. Hazard scored some pearlers but they were fairly few whereas Salah did it week in, week out.

 

[Hammondo]

Salah would be in the conversation for best attacking player in PL history, hazard would not.

 

[devaneios]

Salah absolutely is close to Hazard in terms of close control and quick link up. At Hazard best, I agree he was better, but Salah isn't miles away. Where's Hazard is miles away from Salah in terms of end product. Even he said he should be scoring more than he did, so I'm not sure why you seem to disagree.

Also, the bit about shooting ability is laughable, I'm afraid. Hazard scored some pearlers but they were fairly few whereas Salah did it week in, week out.

Salah is close to Hazard in close control and playmaking, whilst scoring screamers almost on a weekly basis...Yeah, you definitely like hyperbolic statements or, for some reason, Salah looks like Messi on your TV.

 

[sherrinford]

And I will still pick Salah over Hazard, just like I will pick Henry over Bergkamp if I have to choose one between them.

Hazard had his prime season in 18/19 with Chelsea, moved to RM in summer and showed up in preseason overweight with a big tummy. It is easy to pick Salah.

What is the relevance of him showing up to preseason overweight? Why does that make it easy to rate Salah higher?

 

[ThatsGreat]

Salah has definitely had a longer peak than Hazard. He's still performing for Liverpool.

 

[Pickle85]

Salah is close to Hazard in close control and playmaking, whilst scoring screamers almost on a weekly basis...Yeah, you definitely like hyperbolic statements or, for some reason, Salah looks like Messi on your TV.

Sorry pal, think you're in the minority here. But understandable if you privilege the eye test over everything else...aesthetics are important.

 

[Dancfc]

Not sure you're entirely objective on this one...

Actually I've said before I'd edge it so Salah due to his performances in UCL so nice try at bad faith debating.

But I'll also say that anyone who thinks Hazard was overrated, inconsistent etc shouldn't have their views on the game taken seriously ever again, because they don't understand it.

 

[Dancfc]

And I will still pick Salah over Hazard, just like I will pick Henry over Bergkamp if I have to choose one between them.

Hazard had his prime season in 18/19 with Chelsea, moved to RM in summer and showed up in preseason overweight with a big tummy. It is easy to pick Salah.

Okay, but what if was Bergkamp vs Van Nisseroy, Kevin Phillips or Hasselbaink? Three other players who based on goal stats were better.

 

[Sandikan]

This is a really close one, surprised people think it should be a landslide. It's prime v prime remember.

For some people the current is always the best.

I think a lot of people forget that prime Hazard was one of the most unplayable players in premier league history.
A dribbling sensation.
United numerous time had to put a man marker on him and engage systematic kicking him tactics.
You'd never try and man mark Salah in the same way as he's not anywhere near the same individual dribbling talent.

 

[erikcred]

For some people the current is always the best.

I think a lot of people forget that prime Hazard was one of the most unplayable players in premier league history.
A dribbling sensation.
United numerous time had to put a man marker on him and engage systematic kicking him tactics.
You'd never try and man mark Salah in the same way as he's not anywhere near the same individual dribbling talent.

I don't think that's what's happening here. After all, Hazard didn't play decades ago. Everyone remembers how unplayable he could be.

The thing is we're asked to compare him to a player with monster numbers.

Salah's had 6 consecutive top-class seasons (min 20 goals a season and hitting 30+goals 4 times) and is Liverpool's top scorer in Europe.

Many here have said that they'd rather go to watch Hazard play, but prefer to have Salah in their team. Sounds about right for neutrals.

 

[Shake Jism]

Salah all say long and twice on Sunday.

 

[Pickle85]

Actually I've said before I'd edge it so Salah due to his performances in UCL so nice try at bad faith debating.

But I'll also say that anyone who thinks Hazard was overrated, inconsistent etc shouldn't have their views on the game taken seriously ever again, because they don't understand it.

He was inconsistent though. I wouldn't say he's overrated, as most here seem to rate him pretty fairly. Again, he was a great player but just not in that top tier.

 

[Dancfc]

He was inconsistent though. I wouldn't say he's overrated, as most here seem to rate him pretty fairly. Again, he was a great player but just not in that top tier.

He literally had one poor season while playing through a hip injury, every other season he was top class which also included him almost single handedly dragging us over the line in two title business ends.

 

[Pickle85]

He literally had one poor season while playing through a hip injury, every other season he was top class which also included him almost single handedly dragging us over the line in two title business ends.

Fair enough. As a Chelsea fan, I'll both agree that you know much more about his time at Chelsea than me while also maintaining that it makes you less than objective about him.

 

[Jordi Cruyff 99]

This is a no contest, really. I am actually surprised it reached 15 pages.

Salah could potentially finish his career as PL best player ever(hopefully not though), and Hazard will be remembered as one of many good players who played in PL. And Hazard was really average player in Champions league.

Salah could potentially finish his career as the best Premier League player ever? That is an outrageous statement and genuinely made me laugh when I read it! He's definitely a memorable Premier League player but best Premier League player ever? He is and will remain nowhere near that distinction.

 

[el3mel]

Hazard could put a whole team on his back and literally win games for Chelsea.

Salah's good in terms of goal-scoring but he's not Hazard.

Salah has multiple solo goals in which he shredded the defense on his own, and in big games too.

 

[Rightnr]

Salah has multiple solo goals in which he shredded the defense on his own, and in big games too.

Prime on prime, it's Hazard for me. Salah is by far and away the better player though

 

[UsualSuspect]

No one denies Hazard was a really talented footballer and I wish he had Ronaldo's work ethic and dedication. To pick between prime Hazard and prime Salah to me it is a relatively easy pick. Only the top team can afford these two players at their prime, and goals win you games.

Goals 'can' win you games. You only need 38 to win every game in a season. What ensures that you win consistently is dominating your opposition. Players like Hazard, Messi, David Silva, Iniesta regardless of their output ensure that their teams dominate games through control and create more chances. Salah without goals, like Haaland without goals, offers very little.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

For some people the current is always the best.

I think a lot of people forget that prime Hazard was one of the most unplayable players in premier league history.
A dribbling sensation.
United numerous time had to put a man marker on him and engage systematic kicking him tactics.
You'd never try and man mark Salah in the same way as he's not anywhere near the same individual dribbling talent.

True, I loved Hazard as a player, but prime Salah while not being man marked goes and scores 2 goals and wins the game.

 

[Joel Miller]

I’d have to go with Salah even if it’s just for the fact he’s a much bigger goal threat. But Hazard was special for Chelsea at times, it’s a shame his career has ended the way it has.

 

[devaneios]

Some fellas here are having a hard time understanding what levels mean.

Nobody is saying that Salah is a one-touch stats pad merchant; it's just that Hazard is a top 5 dribbler of this century. It's perfectly possible to have some nice skills and yet be far from the best.

 

[Rajiztar]

Ideally hazard on the left and Salah on the right with costa as striker and fabregas and kdb both as playmaker no.8s with matic holding the midfield. Jose had this team in his hands. But somehow he mismanaged the great potential of that team.

For me hazard on prime every game he will win every match for you. Hazard played under different managers for chelsea that again gave you how good he was in various systems and unplayable on his day.

 

[B20]

Some fellas here are having a hard time understanding what levels mean.

Nobody is saying that Salah is a one-touch stats pad merchant; it's just that Hazard is a top 5 dribbler of this century. It's perfectly possible to have some nice skills and yet be far from the best.

I am going to go ahead and lock in Messi, Ronaldinho and Neymar for the first three slots.

Then we have a pool of Zidane, Iniesta, Robben, Ribery, Hazard, Aguero, Figo... I don't know, I think it is a maybe

 

[UsualSuspect]

I am going to go ahead and lock in Messi, Ronaldinho and Neymar for the first three slots.

Then we have a pool of Zidane, Iniesta, Robben, Ribery, Hazard, Aguero, Figo... I don't know, I think it is a maybe

The only one similar, and close to as effective as Messi on that list is prime Hazard. And that's not to besmudge the abilities of the others (Aguero? aside).