Preseason observations

[BluesJr]

Press and possession is nowhere near. Disappointing really was expecting more. Bruno on the right also just a gimicky joke.

 

[Redstain]

On the bolded part - I share the same concern. He did make a comment last season that we play too much end-to-end tennis games instead of having a bit more control, and yet he signs Mount what means we're basically becoming even more vertical team. Nothing against Mount, he's a decent player, but this is a strange move. On the other hand, Onana might be transformative if this works and pushes our defense higher up, although that is a rationalization and might not be as effective as we think, because there's still a big gap between back 4+ Casemiro and the rest of the team.

Agreed there are wholesale concerns in a multitude of positions. I don't think all of them can be rectified in one summer but at least go by priority first. I sure do hope ETH has some unforseen managerial brilliance up his sleeve because so much of the summer dealings aside the goalkeeper isn't making too much sense.

 

[manichester]

We are like a Fish and Chip shop that is open for business without any potatoes. Maybe we will have them but they for sure won't be prepared.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

What I’ve learned is that a lot of United fans don’t understand that losing a preseason game isn’t the end of the world.

 

[bosnian_red]

1. Our right side just feels off. Whatever combination of players at fullback or wing, I'm unconvinced by any of them. Antony has tunnel vision and insists on his floaters despite having a shit shot, but rarely choosing to pass in the final 3rd. Wan Bissaka has a lot of good points but is horrible at progressing the ball as required and just plays it square to the CB or the winger where the winger has to recycle possession back anyway. Dalot I like more in possession but he's pretty meh in other ways and hasn't rediscovered that early form from last season. Amad is young and small still, and my guess he might face similar limitations to Antony. I hope to never see Bruno on the right again, it doesn't work, it looks awkward as hell and it hurts us more than it benefits us.
2. Our midfield doesn't have someone who can carry the ball to a high level. TBF this is one that most don't have, but look at how Camavinga played yesterday... Would be a game changer for us.
3. Final 3rd decision making. The reason I keep wanting to give Sancho more chances is that he's the only guy who lifts his head up in the final 3rd and can find those passes. Rashford is fine in his role as being the scorer, Antony doesn't know what he is good at and fecks up countless opportunities.
4. Garnacho is the only one who plays like a proper winger, can go both inside and outside, can get past players.. huge potential
5. Onana will make a big difference in our playing out from the back and when we are pressed high. Unfortunately when we are pressed in midfield/attack it's still a bit of panic. But it's a massive improvement in deep areas.

Players and positions I'm confident/not concerned in for the season:

• Onana
• Shaw
• Martinez
• Varane (when fit)
• CB depth
• Casemiro
• Bruno
• Rashford
• Garnacho

Mount is probably fine, but we need to find the right balance in midfield and that remains to be seen how it settles.

My concerns lie in what happens at RB, RW, CF, and how we address the lack of dynamism in midfield.

 

[Fooza]

I've learnt nothing but beating Arsenal was nice. It's just fitness anyways, we were never going to be ready if the board weren't bringing in signings early, especially strikers.

 

[tomaldinho1]

1. Our right side just feels off. Whatever combination of players at fullback or wing, I'm unconvinced by any of them. Antony has tunnel vision and insists on his floaters despite having a shit shot, but rarely choosing to pass in the final 3rd. Wan Bissaka has a lot of good points but is horrible at progressing the ball as required and just plays it square to the CB or the winger where the winger has to recycle possession back anyway. Dalot I like more in possession but he's pretty meh in other ways and hasn't rediscovered that early form from last season. Amad is young and small still, and my guess he might face similar limitations to Antony. I hope to never see Bruno on the right again, it doesn't work, it looks awkward as hell and it hurts us more than it benefits us.
2. Our midfield doesn't have someone who can carry the ball to a high level. TBF this is one that most don't have, but look at how Camavinga played yesterday... Would be a game changer for us.
3. Final 3rd decision making. The reason I keep wanting to give Sancho more chances is that he's the only guy who lifts his head up in the final 3rd and can find those passes. Rashford is fine in his role as being the scorer, Antony doesn't know what he is good at and fecks up countless opportunities.
4. Garnacho is the only one who plays like a proper winger, can go both inside and outside, can get past players.. huge potential
5. Onana will make a big difference in our playing out from the back and when we are pressed high. Unfortunately when we are pressed in midfield/attack it's still a bit of panic. But it's a massive improvement in deep areas.

Players and positions I'm confident/not concerned in for the season:

• Onana
• Shaw
• Martinez
• Varane (when fit)
• CB depth
• Casemiro
• Bruno
• Rashford
• Garnacho

Mount is probably fine, but we need to find the right balance in midfield and that remains to be seen how it settles.

My concerns lie in what happens at RB, RW, CF, and how we address the lack of dynamism in midfield.

I think Antony will look a whole lot more dangerous if we get a striker - the Right side of our team is a bit in limbo at the moment, I feel like AWB is a good foil for Shaw given so much offensive work goes down our LW if a team break on us we have a back 3 of Licha-Varane-AWB which is very solid but AWB is not the greatest offensive full back (I think people have seen him improve and are finally not slating him thankfully), Antony I think gets a hard time on here because people essentially want him to be like Rashford i.e. take people on which is very difficult to do without searing pace and don't factor in he doesn't usually get the passing option of a striker running the channel (one of many reasons we are desperate for a 9), what he needs to do is improve his decision making - he gets in lots of good positions, he just needs to improve his crossing (again why we need a 9 because Wout was dreadful despite his size) and a forward passing option which only ever comes, rarely, when Bruno runs the channel which Travellers him out and he's not really fast enough to do. This season will be pivotal for Antony's career here.

Agree wholeheartedly on the CM runner, annoying we didn't get Kovacic and aren't seemingly going for Caceido or someone with that ability. We have lacked dynamism in the CMs for years bar Fred who obviously has other issues.

I reckon we'll see a Garnacho - Rashford - Antony front three if we fail to get a striker which is probably better on balance than putting a makeshift striker in.

 

[iHicksy]

Just a reminder that as much fun as it is pre-season games really do mean nothing, and i mean nothing. How quickly we forget that when LvG joined we absolutely dominated a great real madrid in pre season playing some of the best football i've seen us play, ever. For the entire pre season we looked transformed into this insane attacking cohesive unit. Only to look totally different once the prem started. Works both ways.

 

[justsomebloke]

• AWB in a free role up the entire length of the pitch like some kind of hybrid between rightback and trequartista
• Bruno on the right
• EtH sticking stubbornly with the 4231

I'm wondering if that's an attempt to take advantage of the opposing teams general lack of interest in marking him?

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm wondering if that's an attempt to take advantage of the opposing teams general lack of interest in marking him?

I think it's less an attempt to take advantage of it, and more a natural shift towards that area as the opponent just gives him far more space knowing he won't hurt them.

 

[justsomebloke]

I think Antony will look a whole lot more dangerous if we get a striker - the Right side of our team is a bit in limbo at the moment, I feel like AWB is a good foil for Shaw given so much offensive work goes down our LW if a team break on us we have a back 3 of Licha-Varane-AWB which is very solid but AWB is not the greatest offensive full back (I think people have seen him improve and are finally not slating him thankfully), Antony I think gets a hard time on here because people essentially want him to be like Rashford i.e. take people on which is very difficult to do without searing pace and don't factor in he doesn't usually get the passing option of a striker running the channel (one of many reasons we are desperate for a 9), what he needs to do is improve his decision making - he gets in lots of good positions, he just needs to improve his crossing (again why we need a 9 because Wout was dreadful despite his size) and a forward passing option which only ever comes, rarely, when Bruno runs the channel which Travellers him out and he's not really fast enough to do. This season will be pivotal for Antony's career here.

Agree wholeheartedly on the CM runner, annoying we didn't get Kovacic and aren't seemingly going for Caceido or someone with that ability. We have lacked dynamism in the CMs for years bar Fred who obviously has other issues.

I reckon we'll see a Garnacho - Rashford - Antony front three if we fail to get a striker which is probably better on balance than putting a makeshift striker in.

I don't think Antony gets a hard time on here because people expects him to be like Rashford. He gets a hard time because he's too often not a very effective player, of any sort. And because he tries the same shot 3-5 times every game and gets it right about once in 20 attempts. And he can't do any kind of crossing, when he's playing on the right. In addition to the fact that none of United's wide forwards really do crosses into the box - look at their stats, it's basically zero. I think you'd have to assume that's by design.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Our attack is totally dependent on Bruno playing and playing through the center. If that doesn't happen, our game goes down a lot.

 

[RuudTom83]

Our attack is totally dependent on Bruno playing and playing through the center. If that doesn't happen, our game goes down a lot.

Yeah the typical United goal is the Bruno pass to setup a counter attacking goal.

The only other type is the individual moment of magic from the wings...see Garnacho/Antony/Rashford.

In general the United attackers just never create for each other...I guess we are all hoping that a CF will solve the problems, but I would like to see EtH and the current players at least look like they are trying something different.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I don't think Antony gets a hard time on here because people expects him to be like Rashford. He gets a hard time because he's too often not a very effective player, of any sort. And because he tries the same shot 3-5 times every game and gets it right about once in 20 attempts. And he can't do any kind of crossing, when he's playing on the right. In addition to the fact that none of United's wide forwards really do crosses into the box - look at their stats, it's basically zero. I think you'd have to assume that's by design.

That's basically what Rashford does as well though, he's quite a predictable player but because of his pace you can't really stop him - he will either cut inside onto his right or he'll run off the shoulder of the last man for a long ball. Antony rarely beats his man when he cuts in so he always tries that curling shot to the far post (which is very inconsistent) and he doesn't have the pace to run off the shoulder. This is why we absolutely need a mobile striker, we have quite a slow team in general in the attack and midfield.

Antony needs to be hitting ~15 goal involvements this season for me (combined G+A) and I think he will do if we get a striker. Agreed neither cross but that will change if we get a good striker.

 

[Borys]

That's basically what Rashford does as well though, he's quite a predictable player but because of his pace you can't really stop him - he will either cut inside onto his right or he'll run off the shoulder of the last man for a long ball. Antony rarely beats his man when he cuts in so he always tries that curling shot to the far post (which is very inconsistent) and he doesn't have the pace to run off the shoulder. This is why we absolutely need a mobile striker, we have quite a slow team in general in the attack and midfield.

Antony needs to be hitting ~15 goal involvements this season for me (combined G+A) and I think he will do if we get a striker. Agreed neither cross but that will change if we get a good striker.

Antony has only himself to blame for last season poor productivity - as he always goes for a shot. We can assume this will change with a striker, but I have not seen a single good cross from Antony in his time here so I think this is a bit bigger issue than lack of target man.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

observations, the glaring one is that we need at least one striker asap

 

[tomaldinho1]

Antony has only himself to blame for last season poor productivity - as he always goes for a shot. We can assume this will change with a striker, but I have not seen a single good cross from Antony in his time here so I think this is a bit bigger issue than lack of target man.

Let's see this season and hope we get a striker in

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Pretty clear that EtH is now making a point regards the striker position by playing Sancho there.

Said as much after the game.

Said the same earlier in the week. I don't think he actually intends to play Sancho there during the season.

 

[seegoblu]

Couldn't help but notice that RM attacked our ball carriers immediately...except for AWB. They hardly man marked him and gave him room to carry the ball until he crossed midfield then they pressured.

AWB presents no threat to the defense and allows the defense to play 10 on 9 on the rest of the pitch.

 

[bosnian_red]

Antony has only himself to blame for last season poor productivity - as he always goes for a shot. We can assume this will change with a striker, but I have not seen a single good cross from Antony in his time here so I think this is a bit bigger issue than lack of target man.

It's not even about good or bad cross - he doesn't lift his head up to play a pass to open teammates or even see if he can cross it. It's tunnel vision to try and float it in. Very annoying.

 

[Jeffthered]

What I’ve learned is that a lot of United fans don’t understand that losing a preseason game isn’t the end of the world.

This.

It's pre-season.

My concerns remain the same as they were, namely our forward line does not have the quality, the goal-scoring quality we need to push on. Rashford is fine... but Martial, Antony and Sancho aren't going to concern many.

We also need a Right Back, desperately. Wan Bissaka is an improved but v limited player. Midfield is working itself out but I can see why we need Amrabat.

 

[justsomebloke]

That's basically what Rashford does as well though, he's quite a predictable player but because of his pace you can't really stop him - he will either cut inside onto his right or he'll run off the shoulder of the last man for a long ball. Antony rarely beats his man when he cuts in so he always tries that curling shot to the far post (which is very inconsistent) and he doesn't have the pace to run off the shoulder. This is why we absolutely need a mobile striker, we have quite a slow team in general in the attack and midfield.

Antony needs to be hitting ~15 goal involvements this season for me (combined G+A) and I think he will do if we get a striker. Agreed neither cross but that will change if we get a good striker.

We must hope for the best.

The thing with the crosses though; NOBODY does it, at least not the wide forwards. Antony actually had the most into the PA/90 of all our wide forwards last season: 0.1/90. Rashford, Garnacho and Sancho all had even fewer. Crossing seems to be something done only by the Full backs and midfielders - there were 9 players from those positions with more crosses/90 than any of the wide forwards. The point of which is that this must clearly be a conscious choice by EtH, not a lack of opportunities through the lack of a good striker.

 

[The United]

It is too early to say much. The only thing about which I am concerned is that Bruno is playing on the right to make space for Mount in the middle. I hope it is not the solution. People thought Bruno didn't connect the team enough in No. 10. Watch the likes of Mount play there. I didn't even make out if we had someone there.

Obviously, not having a striker didn't help with the way we like to play. Reinforcing the middle with someone who can also defend along with Cas would be great too. Hopefully, the manager gets his targets before the season starts.

 

[Borys]

Couldn't help but notice that RM attacked our ball carriers immediately...except for AWB. They hardly man marked him and gave him room to carry the ball until he crossed midfield then they pressured.

AWB presents no threat to the defense and allows the defense to play 10 on 9 on the rest of the pitch.

It was the same with Valencia in his late RB days. Was given acres of space as he was not a threat, just a ball carrier. Attacking RB would add another dimension to the team, especially behind Antony.

 

[tomaldinho1]

We must hope for the best.

The thing with the crosses though; NOBODY does it, at least not the wide forwards. Antony actually had the most into the PA/90 of all our wide forwards last season: 0.1/90. Rashford, Garnacho and Sancho all had even fewer. Crossing seems to be something done only by the Full backs and midfielders - there were 9 players from those positions with more crosses/90 than any of the wide forwards. The point of which is that this must clearly be a conscious choice by EtH, not a lack of opportunities through the lack of a good striker.

Football has moved away from crossing in the classic winge-hitting-the-byline-and-crossing-it in sense but that is one issue we have with wide forwards who are opposite footed to their side (Rashford can't cross from his left, Antony can't cross with his right) so you kind of have to have the full backs overlap and cross. I wonder if any resident Ajax fans can speak to ETH at Ajax because I assume it was done at least a bit more there, particularly when Haller a good amount of headers.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Couldn't help but notice that RM attacked our ball carriers immediately...except for AWB. They hardly man marked him and gave him room to carry the ball until he crossed midfield then they pressured.

AWB presents no threat to the defense and allows the defense to play 10 on 9 on the rest of the pitch.

And I doubt RM prepped before the game specifically for AWB.

Footballers tend to realize who is threatening and who isn’t quite quickly, and AWB simply doesn’t have it in his locker to be a creative force.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Obvious observation - We can have all the talented midfilders in the world but without a striker we are not going to do anything.

 

[lex talionis]

No firm conclusions about anything can be drawn yet. Only the last preseason game v Atletico will begin to tell us anything we need to know going into the new season. Onana will have had several matches under his belt by then and we'll see whether the quickness in getting the ball out of the back will have a material impact on our chance creation and conversion.

I am a bit worried about Eriksen but it may be all that he needs is time to to regain strength and fitness, as he hasn't looked anything like the pre-Andy Carroll Christian Eriksen.

 

[Harry190]

Sancho has a tendency to dribble into trouble rather than out of it.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

1. Our right side just feels off. Whatever combination of players at fullback or wing, I'm unconvinced by any of them. Antony has tunnel vision and insists on his floaters despite having a shit shot, but rarely choosing to pass in the final 3rd. Wan Bissaka has a lot of good points but is horrible at progressing the ball as required and just plays it square to the CB or the winger where the winger has to recycle possession back anyway. Dalot I like more in possession but he's pretty meh in other ways and hasn't rediscovered that early form from last season. Amad is young and small still, and my guess he might face similar limitations to Antony. I hope to never see Bruno on the right again, it doesn't work, it looks awkward as hell and it hurts us more than it benefits us.
2. Our midfield doesn't have someone who can carry the ball to a high level. TBF this is one that most don't have, but look at how Camavinga played yesterday... Would be a game changer for us.
3. Final 3rd decision making. The reason I keep wanting to give Sancho more chances is that he's the only guy who lifts his head up in the final 3rd and can find those passes. Rashford is fine in his role as being the scorer, Antony doesn't know what he is good at and fecks up countless opportunities.
4. Garnacho is the only one who plays like a proper winger, can go both inside and outside, can get past players.. huge potential
5. Onana will make a big difference in our playing out from the back and when we are pressed high. Unfortunately when we are pressed in midfield/attack it's still a bit of panic. But it's a massive improvement in deep areas.

Players and positions I'm confident/not concerned in for the season:

• Onana
• Shaw
• Martinez
• Varane (when fit)
• CB depth
• Casemiro
• Bruno
• Rashford
• Garnacho

Mount is probably fine, but we need to find the right balance in midfield and that remains to be seen how it settles.

My concerns lie in what happens at RB, RW, CF, and how we address the lack of dynamism in midfield.

I think Mount can be that carrier (or hope that's his role more so than playing super far forward). Agreed on our right side being crap. I'm a resident Antony hater so I won't go into that, but I thought it's clear by this point that aside from striker (the obvious choice), RB is our biggest hole in the squad. AWB has improved on the ball from being a complete 0, but he's horrific in his positioning and awareness as shown last night yet again and provides 0 attacking/creative output. Dalot isn't as good 1v1 defending a winger like Vini, but he's a much better progressive passer and also brings the benefit of being better on his weak foot. But neither are up to the standard we really need, especially going forward. We can't afford to have a complete 0 creatively at RW (which is what you get with Antony), and also have another 0 behind him. It turns our right side into just possession recycling FC unless Antony decides to shoot (which he does often).


The Bruno RW gimmick has to stop. He's god awful in tight spaces on the ball and becomes a detriment at that point no matter what sort of creativity he might bring. If anything I'd rather Mount in that position if ETH wants 4 midfielders in the lineup.

 

[RedStarUnited]

The press is still very disjointed. I do think part of that is because we've been playing with the same attacking unit as last season plus mount. I'll judge the press when we have rashy on the left and a new striker. At the moment, same as last year, we don't fully commit to the press as a unit.

Passing out from defence is better but I think its clear the defenders need to get comfortable playing it back to Onana in tight situations.

Think we definitely need Amrabat and hopefully Mainoo to step up in the midfield to give us a different dynamic in there.

One of the biggest reasons for this is Rashford. He has become a terrible presser in the last few years. He does the bare minimum and gets away with it.

 

[Kinky Melinky]

PreSeason lads. No harm being interested in it, but no point getting irritated by it.

 

[AndyMUFC]

Observations from last night at least are that we’re definitely starting to resemble an ETH side more. The passing out from the back, the tempo and the ball progression looked a lot better.

However we’ve still got players who are sloppy in possession and aren’t pressing properly. We’re not used to playing like this though and some players probably aren’t even capable, so it’s all about time.

 

[Nobby style]

I quite liked it.

Also I felt sancho looked more bullish at going toward players and taking them on. He was in the wrong position but I actually felt he was coming into his own.

Thought the same thing. There were moments there Sancho looked quite up for it, and really effective.

 

[Nobby style]

Any signs well be better in possession?

0

Any signs well be better in possession?

Erm . . . Onana . . . cough, cough

 

[tjb]

We have most of the elements, we also have some youth prospects ready to step up

At this moment, its quite clear that we are a very good team and got better with Onana and Mount coming in. We can play higher up than we did in most games, even beating the press against Madrid the majority of the time. We can cover gaps in midfield due to Mount's dynamism and we have more options in regard to depth. AWB's on ball confidence has also improved, which should bode well.

What is also quite clear is whilst we are solid and can have really good playing patterns to dominate games, our attack still has too many flaws. Bruno still being somewhat of an option on the right had side says a lot about this. The only guarantee in terms of quality is Rashford playing from the left or on the right ( in rare cases). It's quite clear he's not our no.9 and this option should only be used sparingly. Martial is injured as usual, so no difference there either. We are relying on one of Antony, Sancho or Amad to step up on the right and we still do not have a no.9 that we can trust.

One thing the Real Madrid and Arsenal games have shown is how important and independent quality attacking players at top teams are supposed to be. Saka when provided opportunities on Saturday didn't need an overlapping run from Timber to cause havoc. Vini Jr. and Rodrygo carried the ball from deeper positions. They didn't rely on Odegaard, Modric, Bellingham etc to create chances for them on a plate. We at least need two consistently performing attackers to ensure we can score 2 goals per game easily. We have the defensive set up and possession to ensure we don't lose many games, now we just need that guarantee in terms of goals.

 

[MUFC OK]

Some good fast passing patterns, relying on luck in the final third to actually score. A striker will help our attacking moves.

 

[flameinthesun]

One of the biggest reasons for this is Rashford. He has become a terrible presser in the last few years. He does the bare minimum and gets away with it.

Definitely agree. It will be interesting to see if we get Rasmus how the unit as a whole presses. Whilst we are definitely better at pressing than under previous managers, we are still short of the top pressing teams in our organisation of a press.

 

[lex talionis]

We have most of the elements, we also have some youth prospects ready to step up

At this moment, its quite clear that we are a very good team and got better with Onana and Mount coming in. We can play higher up than we did in most games, even beating the press against Madrid the majority of the time. We can cover gaps in midfield due to Mount's dynamism and we have more options in regard to depth. AWB's on ball confidence has also improved, which should bode well.

What is also quite clear is whilst we are solid and can have really good playing patterns to dominate games, our attack still has too many flaws. Bruno still being somewhat of an option on the right had side says a lot about this. The only guarantee in terms of quality is Rashford playing from the left or on the right ( in rare cases). It's quite clear he's not our no.9 and this option should only be used sparingly. Martial is injured as usual, so no difference there either. We are relying on one of Antony, Sancho or Amad to step up on the right and we still do not have a no.9 that we can trust.

One thing the Real Madrid and Arsenal games have shown is how important and independent quality attacking players at top teams are supposed to be. Saka when provided opportunities on Saturday didn't need an overlapping run from Timber to cause havoc. Vini Jr. and Rodrygo carried the ball from deeper positions. They didn't rely on Odegaard, Modric, Bellingham etc to create chances for them on a plate. We at least need two consistently performing attackers to ensure we can score 2 goals per game easily. We have the defensive set up and possession to ensure we don't lose many games, now we just need that guarantee in terms of goals.

This is the key point: We at least need two consistently performing attackers to ensure we can score 2 goals per game easily.

Not based on the pre-season games so far but from last season, there's something seriously awry with Antony and Sancho. Maybe they'll come good this season, but they haven't come good yet. We know about Martial. Garnacho is one for the future. Amad is an intriguing prospect, but at this point nothing more than that. Rashford had a great season, but he's something of a bull in a china shop and not an attacker than can beat a defender multiple ways.

We do need to consistently performing attackers to ensure we can score 2 goals per game consistently. We can add all the midfielders and keepers we like, but if nothing changes on the front line we'll be eeking out 1-0 wins and hoping week in/week out that we can keep clean sheets to support our meager 1 goal performances. There's lot of talk about Hojlund but we cannot expect Hojlund to have a massive impact at OT in his debt season. Maybe he will, but we can't expect it. Bottom line is that Antony and Sancho need to raise their game significantly to meet the most minimal of reasonable expectations.

 

[Amadaeus]

Waited till the last minute to sign the position we needed the most is poor planning. I prefer we go get kolo muani, but it is obvious that we need a striker. Ramos will fit our system as well.

Other than that, our players looks confident and passing much improved. I can easily see us challenging and even winning the title if we sign a striker that hits the ground running.