He didn't need to score 20 goals. We had Yorke, Cole, Sheringham and Ole. We had Paul Scholes.
Premier League Gameweek 12
- Thread starter Samid
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Yep so how do you deduce who is better, I actually think it isn't a worthwhile argument now I've gone into it,
similar positions diffferent rolesHe was never in a side to score goals, his job was to make them. I think his best goalscoring season was 13 league goals. In todays game however wingers are expected to score more and thy get into more goalscoring positions than wingers of old. In that setup I don't see why he wouldn't score 20 in a season given his ability.
So yes it is hypothetical which is why I said in my opinion
I said the same about Robert Pires a while back another player that I feel in this setup and age would be better than Mane and Salah but its just opinions really
Yep so how do you deduce who is better, I actually think it isn't a worthwhile argument now I've gone into it,
Its just opinions.
I look at the players raw abilities and judge on that.
Ye given 6 months prep time and enough time to condition their bodies, they'd likely be better as '99 had more talent.
30s
Silly post. Did United 99 win ever game?
Agreed.
Anyone who suggests this current Liverpool team is better than the class of '92 is quite frankly deluded beyond all help. They have still yet to win a league title, they fluked a champions league, and have won a bunch of friendly cup competitions nobody cares about. Jog on.
If in the next ten years they have dominated English football, then we can have a conversation.
If in the next ten years they have dominated English football, then we can have a conversation.
Yeah but I also meant each successive culture is informed by the past; in this case, football culture. So, modern-day players benefit from the experiences of past players, and from the scientific improvements of the present.Standing on the shoulder of giants
You haven't read the arguments at all. The point of titles and cups has already been discussed.
I myself think people are deluded who think a midfield of Scholes and Keane would be a match for De Bruyne, Silva and any third.
Bit of an odd statement considering Scholes and Keane had the runs on the board which the other two have yet to emulate. Still, all opinions, I suppose.
Basically this.. It may be true, that the game has evolved physically and tactically, and maybe we could beat them if we had a time machine, who knows? But to be considered equal to the great United teams, we need to win more major trophies, no doubt about that.
Difficult to compare but I don’t see Salah and Mane hitting their goal totals playing wide in a 442 against defensive fullbacks with there own defensive responsibilities.
you think a young Ryan Giggs wouldn’t be banging them in and terrorising these modern attacking fullbacks in a forward 3?
You can't fluke a Champions League, you just can't.
It's the toughest tournament in the world, one every professional footballer dreams to win, not the Carabao Cup. The league is pretty much theirs to lose this season, but the comparison with the class of '92 is pointless.
One of the three greatest club teams in history wouldn't be able to cope with this Liverpool team. Is this real life?
History says you can actually...depending on your definition of fluke. Stuff like Istanbul, chelsea-barcelona/bayern, roma-wolfsburg-city road to the final.....
This is making me laugh more than it should.
Has the standard really improved across the board in the premier league from years gone by? Defending certainly hasn't in my opinion. The old United teams of 99 and 08 would be making mince meat of this league with all the talent. Giggs, Scholes, Cole, Yorke, Beckham, Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo. I think even some of the teams we had between that would do damage.
The argument is daft anyway. You can only measure it by previous success and on that level the current Liverpool side has a long way to go. Same for City.
The argument is daft anyway. You can only measure it by previous success and on that level the current Liverpool side has a long way to go. Same for City.
Of course you can have a bit of luck in one game or two, it's part of any competition, but you can't just fluke your way from the group stages to the final and then win it. It's absurd. I know they're not much liked but there's a limit to the bias.
You have to compare apples to apples.
How do we think Salah would have performed as either a left winger in a 4-4-2 or an out and out striker in that system?
Most likely nowhere near as good as he does in this role. Especially in an era there were loads of actual quality defenders.
Giggs has rightly gone down as the all time top left winger in Premier league history.
Let's see how Salah (and Mane) are remembered in 10-15 years. Will genuinely be interesting, as people love to hype up the "Now".
The biggest myth in football today is the idea that Liverpool's midfield is average.
It's true. This Liverpool team (and City team) would beat any Man United team.
The levels of fitness, nutrition, tactical knowledge, training methods (like spatial awareness and making perfect decisions in split seconds for Liverpool especially), is vastly superior now. The psychological aspect also has moved leaps and bounds ahead.
The amount of running Mane Robertson TAA Henderson Wijnaldum etc do now is ridiculous compared to back then. They would open up so much space and run rings around United alone, ignoring technical skill, or tactics etc.
It's really unfair to compare the two because football has progressed so much since then. It's like comparing a 90s United team to a 70s Liverpool team.
They work extremely well as a collective unit. Their midfield is probably the weakest part of their team(considering their great front 3 and great back 4), but it punches above its weight.
Credit to Klopp.
Klopp has them as players using their energy to get around the pitch allowing freedom for the fullbacks and it really works for them, so in that sense I agree it's harsh calling them average but there's also the sense of if (hypothetically speaking) Klopp walked in May and his successor is someone who values midfield domination on the ball as a first priority would he be happy with those options? In my opinion, absolutely not.
Could you imagine a Pep or Sarri (Lampard even) rolling with that midfield? Both would look at all of them with the exception of Fabinho and would want/need instant upgrades for their football.
What are you basing this all on? I mean there have been some changes in terms of tactics and improvements across the league I reckon, but at the highest level it may been diminishing returns. We're talking about 1999, not 1959.
Um...the whole point of these hypothetical, imaginary match-ups is that both teams should have access to modern advantages, or that both should be restricted to past 'disadvantages'; otherwise, the very idea of a match-up is entirely unfair to one of the teams, and also nonsensical.
I was speaking about the current Liverpool team against our great team. I'm not sure why you are entering De Bruyne and Silva into it.
It is fair to say I haven't read every page of this 50 page thread, so if I repeated others arguments then I'll take that as some kind of validation for my POV.
Liverpool had a remarkable run of good fortune getting to the semifinals, then the miracle against Barcelona was luck as much as skill. How Barcelona failed to score in that second leg I'll never know. That result was outrageously fortunate for Liverpool. Then in the final they get that ludicrous penalty decision right away, played like crap for most of the rest of the match, and sneaked a late second. Playing Tottenham, perennial bottlers, in a Champions League final is also pretty damn lucky in itself.
Am I bitter? Yes.
Absolutely a handball, insane to say otherwise. Gained a massive advantage by the handling of the ball & the arm was off of the body.
Pep would love Wijnaldum and all that ball retention.
Pep would love to have Salah, Mane, Fabinho, Trent & Roberson.
Then of course you have the rest - Virgil van Dijk, etc.
When was the last time Liverpool lost? In the league they are on some massive no loss streak that stretches back to last season. They might be breaking records.
This Liverpool team is a pain for Pep.
If he reaches a 3rd CL final in a trot... even if you dislike Liverpool he has to go down as 1 of the best managers in the history of the premier league. They can still do the double, or even the treble.
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It’s certainly not true.
Sarri? The one who sees Matuidi and Khedira as untouchable now at juventus?
Also Lampard? His chelsea us gegenpressing on steroids
Guardiola i imagine would make it work in much the same way Klopp did. Liverpool average 58% possession to City's 60% in the league. So keeping and moving the ball isn't an issue for them, clearly
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This fecker must be a scouse supporter in a WUM-mode. Can we feck him off, so that he can enjoy the company of other deluded bin-dippers.
Expected goals table and other sthot data after 12 games:
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One day the penny will drop for the media/public at large that there's a pretty obvious link between Liverpool's "average" midfield and their world-class fullbacks.
It's because Henderson is the captain, and of course a regular starter and some people will never rate him. Even Liverpool fans mostly don't.
But as most said, they work so well as an unit, and that was shown pretty well against City. Gini had his best game for us so far in the season, probably, and is having one of the best seasons of his life (club and NT). Fabinho scored and Henderson assisted.
To be fair to Lampard he gets performance from kovacic and jorginho week in week out.They were struggled to impress last season under Sarri. Kovacic mostly not even finished whole game last season. May be bedding period in new league was the reason for their struggle.
Come to Liverpool midfield,they are not full of superstars but they do work hard and make the team tick. Sheilding their defense with numbers and chipping in goals whenever their forward players struggled to get going .
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It is. Perhaps you ignored everything I said in the post.