I think you've explained why Oliver didn't give it; Trent's movement was pretty undetectable unless re-watched in slow motion. Even the replays were super-slowed down.
Premier League Gameweek 12
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Think the problem for City at the moment is Rodri.
It's all well and good pointing the finger at the back four but they're being badly let down by a midfield who aren't pulling their weight defensively. The personnel of a Pep defence doesn't matter if the system works well. We once destroyed Tottenham with a back four of Walker, Otamendi, Mangala and Delph. We should be able to hold our own with a back four of Walker, Stones, Fernandinho and Angelino. Laporte and Kompany are big misses but the chronic problems are coming from further up the field.
De Bruyne looks sluggish out of possession and isn't leading the press from the front well enough. Bernardo's batteries are in need of recharging. Gundogan is a great #6 but only a decent #8. David Silva and Fernandinho are the best of the lot positionally but one's injured and the other is in defence. Despite all this, it's Rodri who's the real problem - defensively he doesn't track his man and can't keep up with the speed of play, and going forward he doesn't know how to make himself available for a pass out of the defence. He's classy in possession but without the ball he's causing trouble.
As I said, it's all well and good pointing the finger at the back four but all it takes for the opposition to get at them is two passes. Stones and Fernandinho were "protected" by a fifty-yard chasm with Rodri lumbering about somewhere in the middle of it, so no wonder Wijnaldum and Fabinho had so much space to pick passes out and put vital moves together. I think we lost yesterday because of poor finishing (mainly from Aguero) but the systemic issues in the middle really didn't help matters. Hope we can get a few people back after this international break because we need it.
It's all well and good pointing the finger at the back four but they're being badly let down by a midfield who aren't pulling their weight defensively. The personnel of a Pep defence doesn't matter if the system works well. We once destroyed Tottenham with a back four of Walker, Otamendi, Mangala and Delph. We should be able to hold our own with a back four of Walker, Stones, Fernandinho and Angelino. Laporte and Kompany are big misses but the chronic problems are coming from further up the field.
De Bruyne looks sluggish out of possession and isn't leading the press from the front well enough. Bernardo's batteries are in need of recharging. Gundogan is a great #6 but only a decent #8. David Silva and Fernandinho are the best of the lot positionally but one's injured and the other is in defence. Despite all this, it's Rodri who's the real problem - defensively he doesn't track his man and can't keep up with the speed of play, and going forward he doesn't know how to make himself available for a pass out of the defence. He's classy in possession but without the ball he's causing trouble.
As I said, it's all well and good pointing the finger at the back four but all it takes for the opposition to get at them is two passes. Stones and Fernandinho were "protected" by a fifty-yard chasm with Rodri lumbering about somewhere in the middle of it, so no wonder Wijnaldum and Fabinho had so much space to pick passes out and put vital moves together. I think we lost yesterday because of poor finishing (mainly from Aguero) but the systemic issues in the middle really didn't help matters. Hope we can get a few people back after this international break because we need it.
Interesting to see City fan(s) slating Rodri. He seemed to be signing of the summer material at first. What has gone wrong?
Plot twist - he's shite!
It's bizarre though - 70m and a lot of us were convinced we'd missed out on a player who would have been an awesome signing for us. He started well, too.
Think he's inadequate in defensive transitions because he's too cumbersome. He has other qualities though in fairness.
Da fuq?
With regards to the handball incident, forgetting about the actual incident itself, if I said to you before the game that there would be a penalty given against you for a handball that came off the attacking players hand first, how would you feel about that? I think we'd all shudder at the thought of it. There's no way any of you would say it should be a pen in any context.
IMO, the two wrongs (Silva's handball and Trents) cancelled each other out and the goal should stand. I'm not sure if that was their working but they got it right in the end.
IMO, the two wrongs (Silva's handball and Trents) cancelled each other out and the goal should stand. I'm not sure if that was their working but they got it right in the end.
Exactly what he said: Rodri isn't as good as Fernandinho at plugging holes in the press once it's beaten. Doesn't have the mobility and hasn't mastered the art of the tactical foul
There's also a problem with the City press being more aggressive in general, which reduces the times it's beaten but makes it more difficult to defend when it is
It did work out fine in the end but that doesn't cancel Oliver's mistake. Two mistakes don't cancel each other out
I wonder if it's a case of Oliver not being sure so he didn't give it, thinking that VAR would determine it for him. The problem there of course is that VAR seems to not be willing to overrule the referee.
There was the Origi 'foul' incident (I didn't think it was a foul) at Old Trafford where the referee on the day didn't give it and then said afterward that he assumed VAR would sort it out. I don't think the referees fully understand how or when it comes into play.
Maybe they should only use it for offsides and possible red card incidents?
There was the Origi 'foul' incident (I didn't think it was a foul) at Old Trafford where the referee on the day didn't give it and then said afterward that he assumed VAR would sort it out. I don't think the referees fully understand how or when it comes into play.
Maybe they should only use it for offsides and possible red card incidents?
I agree with him in part.
These two teams would comfortably beat our '99 team. But I think the standard of football has rose so much it's a little unfair to compare.
Fair enough but I don't agree about beating the 99 team or beating ANY United team. Yes the standard has rose but those sides would still be incredible in this day and age. Same with Jose's first Chelsea side and the Arsenal side of the 90's.
yes because a free kick and a penalty are the same thing aren’t they?Really? Player for player we were much superior to Liverpool and and maybe our starting 11 was a bit better than City, but the way football is played now - I feel our '99 side would be lost and they'd be played off the park. Maybe given 6 months to train.
But as I said, it's too hard to compare.
Regardless, it's a bit depressing that City and Liverpool are the standout club teams in the world. I still don't think the other European giants are good enough to topple them yet - so I fear we will be praying for a final piece of Ronaldo/Messi magic to stop a CL win. To make it worse, Leeds are on their way back.
But that's a bit of a pointless comparison. If we insist on comparing teams from different eras, then it has to be done on the basis of their achievements. United's two best teams won three league titles in a row plus a Champions League each. Liverpool have yet to win the league once. Until then... nope. Guardiola's City can be in the discussion, Liverpool not yet.
People need to remember we had a peak Ronaldo in 2008..
I think that United team in 99 and 08 accomplished incredible things competing against brilliant sides domestically and abroad. Therefore against Liverpool from this era, I would fancy either of our really great Sir Alex sides.
Agreed, this.
People need to remember we had a peak Ronaldo in 2008..
True
Never used that expression through 4,364 previous posts since April 18, 2010, but L.O.L.
Objectively your 100% correct. Objectively I'm also 100% correct that players today are physically superior. So it's does come down to opinion unfortunately, which will always make the comparison pointless, as you said.
Football quality wise, if you don't think it's even close - you're blinded by nostalgia.
has the standard really rose? Defenders can’t even defend any more. Would Vardy be a goal a game striker 10/20 years ago? It raises a great question though.
Don't think so. People waxing lyrical about Alexanders Arnolds passing and crossing the 99 team had Beckham and Scholes. As well as 4 excellent goal scorers to rotate in the front line
99 Giggs I would take over Salah and Mane any day, Keane would dominate midfield pretty easily in this day and age too
To be fair he probably would.
Talks loudly into the camera rather than ignoring the guy
I’m joking haha. well kinda.
Certainly. He started late so the longevity isn't there, but peak Vardy is as good as Ian Wright.
You missed my point. Our team was superior. I'd put Beckham way above Alex'-Arnold, I'd put him in De Bruyne category. Giggs would still be the best winger from both teams. Scholes would get in both squads (it's laughable that Henderson is still a starter) and Keane is a level or above Fernadinho.
The point is - as a drilled system, I think they'd still be too much. You say Keane would dominate midfield, but how both teams moved the ball yesterday - he's not getting close to someone like B.Silva before the balls gone again. It would be like that all over the pitch, 2v1s and too much intensity. It wouldn't even come down to players, tactics and sports science are literally 20 years behind.
Assuming we played the same style we did then maybe yes, but if that team then existed now, I think it would be better (as obviously they would adjust to the new style of todays game)
How old are you?
This Liverpool team almost lost to the "worst Man United team" in the last 20 years. I don't know if you were around in 99, but that team would make Salah and Firmino cry.
Don't really think it works like that, by the same logic you can say United 99 got beat by Sheffield Wednesday.
99 Giggs better than Salah or Mane? Don't think so.
You mean the 99 Giggs who scored one of the best goals ever?
Of course he was
People's minds are foged because of Liverpool winning games due to referee desicions and unbelievable luck so that they put one of the greatest United's team below THIS Livepool. Unthinkably.
Comparing greats past and present is interesting but invalid. It's like presuming that Newton was a moron because Einstein had the benefits of Isaac's discoveries.
Yes that Giggs, I doubt either are remebered like Giggs he was literally one of the best players in the world from 18 onwards but In isolation comparing those couple seasons I don't think he is better than either of those players.
Why?
I think historical bias is a big thing in football.
No doubt people were laughing at the prospect of that United being favroubly compared to Liverpool teams under Paisley, and likewise those teams with the Busby babes, and them with Arsenal in the 30s etc al.
Ten years time it will be the same with current City/Liverpool sides bs bs whoevers on top at that point.
No doubt people were laughing at the prospect of that United being favroubly compared to Liverpool teams under Paisley, and likewise those teams with the Busby babes, and them with Arsenal in the 30s etc al.
Ten years time it will be the same with current City/Liverpool sides bs bs whoevers on top at that point.
I think that the 07/08 United team would be a better match for City & Liverpool's current sides. Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Giggs, VDS. All elite players who would match up to whatever the best is in the league right now.
I wasn't specifically referencing Giggs in that year by the way. However the Welsh assists machine was a better dribbler than both and I actually think could score as many as them in a setup like pools. He was a very good finisher. He was also technically a better player than Salah in my opinion
This is the problem with hypotheticals I guess, hard to know, but Giggs never showed the propensity to score 20 league goals in a season howevever good a finisher he was, in that 98/99 season he scored 3 goals in the league, didn't make PFA team of the year etc. Different setups, different times and his main role was to create.