Pre Premier League Draft

Indnyc said:
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1)Souness
  8. Youngrell
  9. Cal?
  10. Gio
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard
  12. Tuppet
  13. Oaencha
  14. Indnyc
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet
@MJJ
Click to expand...

@youngrell
 
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell
  9. Cal?
  10. Gio
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard
  12. Tuppet
  13. Oaencha
  14. Indnyc
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet
@youngrell
 
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal?
  10. Gio
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard
  12. Tuppet
  13. Oaencha
  14. Indnyc
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet
@Cal?
 
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? 1) G.Best (4)
  10. Gio
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard
  12. Tuppet
  13. Oaencha
  14. Indnyc
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet
@Gio
 
Bottom half of the draft is definitely a disadvantage here. Seeing as most teams will consist of players not many voters will be familiar with, a lot will naturally be swayed by the big names. The big names are running dry fast.

I’m going to have some fun and try something different.
 
BXlPdLoCQAAIGAn.jpg

  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? 1) G.Best (4)
  10. Gio 1) G. Hoddle (35)
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard
  12. Tuppet
  13. Oaencha
  14. Indnyc
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet
@Skizzo
@Pat_Mustard
 
tbf to cal, drunk Best is still better then most players
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Best had 1 ok season? And only played part if the rest...
Click to expand...

Stats wise, yes.

In reality he was completely unreliable at that stage, going AWOL to party, etc., something that became increasingly worse as the season progressed (United started well, finished in very mediocre fashion).

He was obviously still capable of brilliance on his day but he wasn't a team player anymore, having fallen out with certain team mates – and having little respect for and/or interest in most others.

He was a combination of seriously flawed genius and sheer liability – and then it got worse.

If he's actually planning on arguing that Best is a reasonable first round pick here, I can only repeat what I said above: I warned you. Tedious debates await whoever draws him.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
cant say i saw your guys debate but in this specific case i dont think a draft master can do anything....Best has more then enough games, that isnt the problem.
Click to expand...

Block him. And a couple of others. Avoid the whole issue.

That's what I suggested.

No matter - he won't get away with selling Best as...Best. It's just that we have to actually deal with it - which is tedious. Best doesn't belong in this draft, he represents a different era.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Block him. And a couple of others. Avoid the whole issue.

That's what I suggested.

No matter - he won't get away with selling Best as...Best. It's just that we have to actually deal with it - which is tedious. Best doesn't belong in this draft, he represents a different era.
Click to expand...

yeah, that would be a good solution.

Chesterlestreet said:
If he's actually planning on arguing that Best is a reasonable first round pick here, I can only repeat what I said above: I warned you. Tedious debates await whoever draws him.
Click to expand...

Id even argue he isnt good enough as the last round pick in this draft.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Block him. And a couple of others. Avoid the whole issue.

That's what I suggested.

No matter - he won't get away with selling Best as...Best. It's just that we have to actually deal with it - which is tedious. Best doesn't belong in this draft, he represents a different era.
Click to expand...

We did think about blocking players but it didn’t make a lot of sense as we would then have to choose other similar players to block

If you have chosen someone like Best it is for the opposition manager to ensure that people judge him for his performance during that time.. If you can’t do that then it’s a failure as an opposition and not really the fault of the manager who chose him
 
I agree with the above sentiments; certain players should have been blocked. The arguments will be frustrating and you will of course get some voters who vote on name alone.
 
Indnyc said:
If you have chosen someone like Best it is for the opposition manager to ensure that people judge him for his performance during that time.. If you can’t do that then it’s a failure as an opposition and not really the fault of the manager who chose him
Click to expand...

It's easy to argue against him:

You could reasonably say that he wasn't a serious footballer anymore at the stage we're talking about here.

He fecked off for a week during the season (the only possible full season you can bring up in his favour) to booze it up and bang Miss World (or whatever she was).

He had started to not give a feck, in short – partly believing his own hype, partly being angry at United for growing old on him, as it were.

His immense talent meant that he was still dangerous when he put the effort in, but he was obviously miles away from the George Best who shows up in GOAT debates. Which means that picking him - nevermind picking him first - is either entirely pointless or some kind of piss-take (but for what reason).

There - done. But it ain't done. Because we'll be going over this again when the matches come around - and if there are sheer scan voters involved, who knows to what extent they will pay any attention to whatever arguments are offered.

Anyway - forget it for now. Let's just move on and see what happens.

For the record, @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - what I suggested was to block the GOATs. Just them - other players who were decidedly over the hill aren't problematic: Because they ain't GOATs, simply put.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It's easy to argue against him:

You could reasonably say that he wasn't a serious footballer anymore at the stage we're talking about here.

He fecked off for a week during the season (the only possible full season you can bring up in his favour) to booze it up and bang Miss World (or whatever she was).

He had started to not give a feck, in short – partly believing his own hype, partly being angry at United for growing old on him, as it were.

His immense talent meant that he was still dangerous when he put the effort in, but he was obviously miles away from the George Best who shows up in GOAT debates. Which means that picking him - nevermind picking him first - is either entirely pointless or some kind of piss-take (but for what reason).

There - done. But it ain't done. Because we'll be going over this again when the matches come around - and if there are sheer scan voters involved, who knows to what extent they will pay any attention to whatever arguments are offered.

Anyway - forget it for now. Let's just move on and see what happens.

For the record, @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - what I suggested was to block the GOATs. Just them - other players who were decidedly over the hill aren't problematic: Because they ain't GOATs, simply put.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It's easy to argue against him:

You could reasonably say that he wasn't a serious footballer anymore at the stage we're talking about here.

He fecked off for a week during the season (the only possible full season you can bring up in his favour) to booze it up and bang Miss World (or whatever she was).

He had started to not give a feck, in short – partly believing his own hype, partly being angry at United for growing old on him, as it were.

His immense talent meant that he was still dangerous when he put the effort in, but he was obviously miles away from the George Best who shows up in GOAT debates. Which means that picking him - nevermind picking him first - is either entirely pointless or some kind of piss-take (but for what reason).

There - done. But it ain't done. Because we'll be going over this again when the matches come around - and if there are sheer scan voters involved, who knows to what extent they will pay any attention to whatever arguments are offered.

Anyway - forget it for now. Let's just move on and see what happens.

For the record, @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - what I suggested was to block the GOATs. Just them - other players who were decidedly over the hill aren't problematic: Because they ain't GOATs, simply put.
Click to expand...

The problem with this draft is that there aren't many Goats. Should we be blocking Lineker or Souness or Keegan? I don't think so because this is the draft where they get credit.

Blocking Best and some of the others from that Era is problematic as well because there is always someone else. Here is a very eloquent post by @Gio on the topic which i agree with

Gio said:
I think you're more inclined to do yourself more damage than harm when picking players whose reputation far exceeds their contribution to the draft theme, as voters can often vote against you out of protest at your perceived abuse of the spirit of the draft. I think we've had that with Messi and Ronaldo in World Cup drafts before. From personal experience, we picked Veron in a PL draft once as a 12th round pick - accepting that he was watered down and wasn't expected to be Serie A Veron, but it was still divisive, a distraction as chesterlestreet put it.

You can let it be self-policed, set minimum game number (but then people might conflate that number with the peak performance period which isn't the same thing), ban certain players or use a DoB restriction (problem though that you design that to rule out Best and create a lot of collateral damage for other more disciplined players of the same age).

My own view is I don't see much value in being too prescriptive in setting a peak definition as voters will self-define and we'll never agree on something that neatly captures peak and longevity together.
Click to expand...

Regarding the issue of scan voters, i feel that is overstated. There will always be scan voters but most people read atleast the OP and are good enough to judge teams in the overall context
 
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? 1) G.Best (4)
  10. Gio 1) G. Hoddle (35)
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard 1. J. Barnes (137)
  12. Tuppet
  13. Oaencha
  14. Indnyc
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet
@Tuppet
 
Indnyc said:
The problem with this draft is that there aren't many Goats. Should we be blocking Lineker or Souness or Keegan? I don't think so because this is the draft where they get credit.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point here.

There aren't any GOATs in the draft - period. Only a small number of players from a bygone era whose GOAT status is entirely based on what they did before August 1971.

You don't block them because they're better than everyone else (they're way past their prime) but because they're trouble, and they're trouble because people will pick them - which will lead to discussions about exactly how much they'd deteriorated: And what's the upside to that. I want to talk about the players who actually represent this era - not bickering over how good Best still was after a week off in London on the booze.

Again, though - moving on.

If I draw him, I'll just refuse to consider Best as anything but a novelty act and let the voters decide.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I think you're missing the point here.

There aren't any GOATs in the draft - period. Only a small number of players from a bygone era whose GOAT status is entirely based on what they did before August 1971.

You don't block them because they're better than everyone else (they're way past their prime) but because they're trouble, and they're trouble because people will pick them - which will lead to discussions about exactly how much they'd deteriorated: And what's the upside to that. I want to talk about the players who actually represent this era - not bickering over how good Best still was after a week off in London on the booze.

Again, though - moving on.

If I draw him, I'll just refuse to consider Best as anything but a novelty act and let the voters decide.
Click to expand...
I get your point :) I did want the voters to choose and decide if the player adequately represents the Era..

Agree, Let’s move on :)
 
Can I leave my pick with someone please? I’m still jet-lagged and need some sleep. Not sure when Tuppet will pop up.
 
1416216848464_wps_14_Scotland_s_Alan_Hansen_19.jpg

  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? 1) G.Best (4)
  10. Gio 1) G. Hoddle (35)
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard 1. J. Barnes (137)
  12. Tuppet 1. A. Hansen (46)
  13. Oaencha
  14. Indnyc
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet

@Oaencha @green_smiley
 
I’m well aware this is not a prime Roy Keane but he was a major young talent at the end of this timeframe. I want to take a different route than normal and it will also be good to hear some discussion about his pre-United days.

nottingham-forest-roy-keane-174-panini-football-93-collectable-football-sticker-49347-p.jpg

  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? 1) G.Best (4)
  10. Gio 1) G. Hoddle (35)
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard 1. J. Barnes (137)
  12. Tuppet 1. A. Hansen (46)
  13. Oaencha 1. R. Keane (19)
  14. Indnyc
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet
@Indnyc
 
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P.McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes 1) K.Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV 1) G.Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? 1) G.Best (4)
  10. Gio 1) G. Hoddle (35)
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard 1. J. Barnes (137)
  12. Tuppet 1. A. Hansen (46)
  13. Oaencha 1. R. Keane (19)
  14. Indnyc 1. E. Gray (34)
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo
  16. Chesterlestreet
@KM @Invictus @Šjor Bepo
 
Šjor Bepo said:
tbf to cal, drunk Best is still better then most players
Click to expand...
Chesterlestreet said:
It's easy to argue against him:

You could reasonably say that he wasn't a serious footballer anymore at the stage we're talking about here.

He fecked off for a week during the season (the only possible full season you can bring up in his favour) to booze it up and bang Miss World (or whatever she was).

He had started to not give a feck, in short – partly believing his own hype, partly being angry at United for growing old on him, as it were.

His immense talent meant that he was still dangerous when he put the effort in, but he was obviously miles away from the George Best who shows up in GOAT debates. Which means that picking him - nevermind picking him first - is either entirely pointless or some kind of piss-take (but for what reason).

There - done. But it ain't done. Because we'll be going over this again when the matches come around - and if there are sheer scan voters involved, who knows to what extent they will pay any attention to whatever arguments are offered.

Anyway - forget it for now. Let's just move on and see what happens.

For the record, @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - what I suggested was to block the GOATs. Just them - other players who were decidedly over the hill aren't problematic: Because they ain't GOATs, simply put.
Click to expand...

71-72, Best played 54 games and scored 27 goals, that's impressive by any standard at the time. Anyway, let's leave this till the match threads.
 
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P. McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes - 1) K. Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV - 1) G. Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ - 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell - 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? - 1) G. Best (4)
  10. Gio - 1) G. Hoddle (35)
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard - 1) J. Barnes (137)
  12. Tuppet - 1) A. Hansen (46)
  13. Oaencha - 1) R. Keane (19)
  14. Indnyc - 1) E. Gray (34)
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo - 1) M. Hughes (90)
  16. Chesterlestreet -
 
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P. McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes - 1) K. Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV - 1) G. Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ - 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell - 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? - 1) G. Best (4)
  10. Gio - 1) G. Hoddle (35)
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard - 1) J. Barnes (137)
  12. Tuppet - 1) A. Hansen (46)
  13. Oaencha - 1) R. Keane (19)
  14. Indnyc - 1) E. Gray (34)
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo - 1) M. Hughes (90)
  16. Chesterlestreet -1) L. Brady 2) P. Lorimer (260)
@KM @Invictus @Šjor Bepo
 
Last edited:
  1. Onenil - 1) K. Dalglish (45)
  2. Green Smiley - 1) I. Rush (4)
  3. BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) B. Robson (51)
  4. Edgar - 1) P. McGrath (63)
  5. Frank Grimes - 1) K. Keegan (480)
  6. Enigma_87/TRV - 1) G. Lineker (3)
  7. MJJ - 1) G. Souness (180)
  8. Youngrell - 1) P. Gascoigne (28)
  9. Cal? - 1) G. Best (4)
  10. Gio - 1) G. Hoddle (35)
  11. Skizzo/Pat Mustard - 1) J. Barnes (137)
  12. Tuppet - 1) A. Hansen (46)
  13. Oaencha - 1) R. Keane (19)
  14. Indnyc - 1) E. Gray (34)
  15. KM/Invictus/Šjor Bepo - 1) M. Hughes (90)
  16. Chesterlestreet -1) L. Brady 2) P. Lorimer (260)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.