Potential Matic Replacements

lenny_1248 said:
No, he couldn't.
He doesn't have defensive awareness and ability. Especially for a DM/number 6.

Hannibal reminds me of Grealish.
It would be foolish to use him as a CDM or CM, for that matter. He has a lot to learn defensively. Though he has a motor, I can't say he's lazy. But he just lacks this defensive nous.

I'd be thrilled to see him as a left-sided attacker against Wolves. At least for 20-30 minutes.
Click to expand...

I agree. In a 4231, you need to be defensively sound. We've ponced around with Pogba playing in a pivot for so long, and whilst he's had good games there, we bought him because of the performances he showed for Juventus playing as a left-sided midfielder.

Hannibal, as you said, should play further up.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Haha, you can't keep changing your mind. I do tend to agree, though.

I think in McTominay and Fred, we have ball winners. Not the greatest when compared to some but they'd certainly fall into that category more than the playmaker type. Therefore, I personally believe we should have been always targeting a ball-playing midfielder.

I look at the role Kante plays for Chelsea in a pivot next to Jorginho, or even the one he played next to Drinkwater. A box to box ball-winner type, if you want. Fred could certainly perform that role for us but he just needs that playmaker behind like Koop, Locatelli, K.Phillips, etc.
Click to expand...
Tbh with you mate, my mind has to change as things evolve in our team.

Last season the consesus was that Pogba was gonna be the ball playing midfielder from a deeper role and pairing him up with someone who had the ability to defend and cover ground to a high level was the way to go IMO. Koopmeiners doesn't have the mobility IMO to play next to Pogba, hence me not wanting him for the role, because Pogba himself isn't the most mobile.

Tbh with you what we need is both midfielders in a two man midfield to help defensively and offensively. So if the opposition is attacking down our right side, then the RCM needs to shuttle across to the right, whilst the LCM drops into the central area. But our biggest issue is the build up phase, where I believe we're not good enough on the ball. So bringing one midfielder into the fold who is good on the ball, would really help us become a better team and make our attack potent. But it would also help if that new midfielder is mobile IMO and has a tenacious side.
 
Adnan said:
Tbh with you mate, my mind has to change as things evolve in our team.

Last season the consesus was that Pogba was gonna be the ball playing midfielder from a deeper role and pairing him up with someone who had the ability to defend and cover ground to a high level was the way to go IMO. Koopmeiners doesn't have the mobility IMO to play next to Pogba, hence me not wanting him for the role, because Pogba himself isn't the most mobile.

Tbh with you what we need is both midfielders in a two man midfield to help defensively and offensively. So if the opposition is attacking down our right side, then the RCM needs to shuttle across to the right, whilst the LCM drops into the central area. But our biggest issue is the build up phase, where I believe we're not good enough on the ball. So bringing one midfielder into the fold who is good on the ball, would really help us become a better team and make our attack potent. But it would also help if that new midfielder is mobile IMO and has a tenacious side.
Click to expand...

Good point. We need all-rounders for the pivot.
 
lenny_1248 said:
No, he couldn't.
He doesn't have defensive awareness and ability. Especially for a DM/number 6.

Hannibal reminds me of Grealish.
It would be foolish to use him as a CDM or CM, for that matter. He has a lot to learn defensively. Though he has a motor, I can't say he's lazy. But he just lacks this defensive nous.

I'd be thrilled to see him as a left-sided attacker against Wolves. At least for 20-30 minutes.
Click to expand...

I see him as an 8 or a left winger/Bruno rotation.
 
@Walters_19_MuFc To be fair to @Adnan sometimes people spot what we need a bit later than others.

It happens but at least he’ll hold his hands up when his opinion changes so respect to him for that.
 
Sea-Cow said:
True but the manager is trying to keep a job that he is in no way qualified for, so he doesn't have the luxury of taking chances and letting kids learn on the job. I think that also leads to the lack of rotation and running some players into the ground.

And the fans are different from Dortmund also. They have no expectations for winning things so they can let a handful of teenagers play each week, it won't really matter because they aren't going to catch Bayern anyway. United fans don't have the patience for long-term squad and player development. It happened this year with one of the most naturally gifted teenagers I've ever seen! Mason struggled at times and I remember seeing calls to send him on loan so he can learn and blah blah.
Click to expand...
Mejbri was a midfielder at Monaco and from the games I watched, he was deployed as a LCM in a 4-3-3, and was their playmaker. But he also had the work rate off the ball which helped defensively. If Solskjaer changed the formation to a 4-3-3, then that would be ideal to give him games. And that formation would suit us best imo, if we want to develop the likes of Mejbri and Garner. Also that formation change to 4-3-3, could also suit the squad as whole.
 
Last edited:
For the price quoted for Rice, I would rather get Locatelli and Bissouma, and play them in double pivot.
 
I no longer really have any idea what to do here, I think McT and Fred to an extent do the job they are tasked to do but both have short comings. To me it seems like Fred is instructed to get in behind and protect the space behind Shaw of Shaw is upfield. However it doesn’t seem like McT has the same job on the other side as he seems quite standoffish and prefers to drop in to a CB position. These things however seem like important parts of our game plan and when Matic plays he does similar but he often just stays in as a LCB or doesn’t get out as quick as Fred.

I’m not 100% convinced by Rice but I do think if say we can only get 1 midfielder in he’d probably be an upgrade on McT, just not a 60 mil worth upgrade. I just think we need someone with energy who can pass and read things defensively but for the life of me I can’t think of someone who fits that bill.

DeJong, Saul maybe? I think he’ll stick by Fred for the energy for another season.

Everyone now seems to be more specialized, and not really capable of going both ways which is what I think Ole wants. I just feel like he’ll stick to his 2 pivots which gets complicated as I don’t see now really how you play Rashford and Pogba with Bruno other than 433 and to me Bruno and Pogba can’t do that as neither are great in possesion.
 
Adnan said:
Mejbri was a midfielder at Monaco and from the games I watched, he was deployed as a LCM in a 4-3-3, and was their playmaker. But he also had the work rate off the ball which helped defensively. If Solskjaer changed the formation to a 4-3-3, then that would be ideal to give him games. And that formation would suit us best imo, if we want to develop the likes of Mejbri and Garner. Also that formation change to 4-3-3, could also suit the squad as whole.
Click to expand...

What formation did Solskjaer deploy at Molde?

I don't think Bruno suits playing deep as he's too clumsy with his passing at times, he's best deployed higher up the pitch imo.
 
Last edited:
lenny_1248 said:
No, he couldn't.
He doesn't have defensive awareness and ability. Especially for a DM/number 6.

Hannibal reminds me of Grealish.
It would be foolish to use him as a CDM or CM, for that matter. He has a lot to learn defensively. Though he has a motor, I can't say he's lazy. But he just lacks this defensive nous.

I'd be thrilled to see him as a left-sided attacker against Wolves. At least for 20-30 minutes.
Click to expand...
This is all hypothetical so I should probably ignore it, but you're saying this incredibly talented 18 year old couldn't learn to be a Carrick/Pirlo type if he played a full season there with the reserves? I'm not guaranteeing it would work or anything, but I think there is at least a possibility. He likes to be on the ball and isn't afraid to receive it with his back to goal or under pressure, he has a great range of passing and vision, and as you said he has a motor and isn't afraid to get stuck in.
 
-Supreme- said:
What formation did Solskaer deploy at Molde?

I don't think Bruno suits playing deep as he's too clumsy with his passing at times, he's best deployed higher up the pitch imo.
Click to expand...
I know he used a 4-3-3 on a number of occasions because he had Magnus Eikrem who was comfortable playing as #10 or as a AM in a 3 man midfield.
 
-Supreme- said:
Thanks - good to know
Click to expand...
To play a 3 man midfield you need a DM to occupy the space, a box to box midfielder to support the attack and knit it all together, both defensively and offensively. And then you need a AM who will operate between the lines and occupy half the spaces to block passing lanes off the ball. I've seen both a destroyer and a ball player work in the deeper role, depending on the composition of the first 11.

We could try Garner in rotation with Fred in the deeper role, with Mejbri as the conduit who has the ability to control the flow as the #8, and Bruno as the most advanced midfielder.

It would take Fergie like bravery to try it though, similar to when Fergie let go of Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes to bring through the kids.
 
Adnan said:
To play a 3 man midfield you need a DM to occupy the space, a box to box midfielder to support the attack and knit it all together, both defensively and offensively. And then you need a AM who will operate between the lines and occupy half the spaces to block passing lanes off the ball. I've seen both a destroyer and a ball player work in the deeper role, depending on the composition of the first 11.

We could try Garner in rotation with Fred in the deeper role, with Mejbri as the conduit who has the ability to control the flow as the #8, and Bruno as the most advanced midfielder.

It would take Fergie like bravery to try it though, similar to when Fergie let go of Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes to bring through the kids.
Click to expand...
Are we talking about Hannibal replacing Pogba so we can play 433? As you would think Donny would be first option if Pogba was to leave. Bruno would also vastly need to improve his ball retention and make better runs and offers for the midfield and defence as I feel both he and Pogba really struggle with that.
 
-Supreme- said:
I don't think Bruno suits playing deep as he's too clumsy with his passing at times, he's best deployed higher up the pitch imo.
Click to expand...


on the bolded part, Bruno in his current role as AM tasked to create chances and chip in with goals tends to attempt risky passes to the forwards but when he comes deep to collect the ball, he can easily retain possession and pass it to the FB or CB, i won't describe him as clumsy, but i can see your point if Bruno suits the 433 formation, i've never seen him play it in United.

Does anyone know how Bruno is deployed with his NT? is it same as United in a 4231?
 
justsomebloke said:
How about Ruben Neves? He's got a nice mix of defensive solidity and offensive skills.
Click to expand...
His stats (and yes I know you can't rely on these alone) suggest he has had a very good season, but he seemed a bit off the pace to me.
I like him as a player though.
 
Adnan said:
To play a 3 man midfield you need a DM to occupy the space, a box to box midfielder to support the attack and knit it all together, both defensively and offensively. And then you need a AM who will operate between the lines and occupy half the spaces to block passing lanes off the ball. I've seen both a destroyer and a ball player work in the deeper role, depending on the composition of the first 11.

We could try Garner in rotation with Fred in the deeper role, with Mejbri as the conduit who has the ability to control the flow as the #8, and Bruno as the most advanced midfielder.

It would take Fergie like bravery to try it though, similar to when Fergie let go of Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes to bring through the kids.
Click to expand...


Agreed - Ole would have done well if we end up giving proper mins to Mejbri next season, let alone him and Garner IMO.

Bruno's passing technique is too inconsistent when we need the AM to transition from a slightly deeper position than one he currently occupies in, but it would be interesting to see how he will adapt his game if we try a different system.
 
Last edited:
Andersons Dietician said:
Are we talking about Hannibal replacing Pogba so we can play 433? As you would think Donny would be first option if Pogba was to leave. Bruno would also vastly need to improve his ball retention and make better runs and offers for the midfield and defence as I feel both he and Pogba really struggle with that.
Click to expand...
I'm just providing potential solutions which likely won't come to pass or be discussed on here by most.

I agree, Fernandes doesn't come across as that type of player, but there was some voices in Portugal who said he was best suited to playing as a #8.

The issue with Pogba is that with the arrival of Fernandes I don't really see how we fit him and Fernandes into the same team from a defensive POV.
 
-Supreme- said:
Agreed - Ole would have done well if we end up giving proper mins to Mejbri next season, let alone him and Garner IMO.

Bruno's passing technique is too inconsistent when we need the AM to transition from a slightly deeper position than one he currently occupies in, but it would be interesting to see how he will adapt his game if we try a different system.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
As far as me not wanting Koopmeiners next to Pogba in a double pivot has also been vindicated. Because playing Pogba and Koopmeiners next to each other without a Matuidi type to provide defensive balance, would've been almost as bad as Matic - Pogba due to the immobile nature of both players who require legs next to them.
 
I think bar that season he looked totally finished, Matic has done well here, was better than I expected anyway. But "potential Matic replacements" it is a bit like "potential Pogba replacements"......do we actually even need liek for like replacements?

Matic has not played much this season, Pogba isnt a central midfielder and on the left, we already have Rashford.

For me most of the players we should be sellign this summer dont need replacing actually. Dalot, Lingard, Mata, CHong, Periera, Romero, Jones for example being the deadwood, barely an appearance between them. Thats £30-60m possibly just right there.

You could pretty much add Bailly for Mengi as barely played, Matic for Garner as barely played, James for Amad as James mainly featured on he right....and he isnt good enough, VDB for Mjebri as barely played...........thats possibly another £80m that barely needs replacing

I would argue liek for like Pogba doesnt need to be replaced as he is only effective on the left and we already have Rashford....another £60-70m

Of course numbers wise some would need replacing and we arent going to sell them all, but that is £200m worth of players that wouldnt need hugely replacing.

Rightly or wrongly (wrongly for me now) if we were selling DeGea, Henderson steps upm he only needs replacing with a number 2.

Fred WOULD need replacing as he is a regular starter in a position with little back up if we were to sell him, same for Martial if we were to sell him.

These things arent going to all happen at once if at all but the players most being touted to go this sumer, I would argue dont need replacing at all directly, there fees should be used for what needs improving in the team, which is obviously a cb, cm (or two), rw and cf.....most of those positions are ones we are unlikely to be sellign anybody that have been playing regularly, but looking to imorove upon. Improve the first eleven, get some of these starting eleven players down to squad players and clear out the deadwood. Pogba is the big sale for me without a doubt though
 
Hannibal just won the Under-23s Player of the Year. Maybe we don't need a replacement from outside but promote this most promising talent to 1st team. He has more potential than Garner in my view.
 
afatzp said:
Hannibal just won the Under-23s Player of the Year. Maybe we don't need a replacement from outside but promote this most promising talent to 1st team. He has more potential than Garner in my view.
Click to expand...

And he has nowhere near the experience Garner has gained. Hannibal's form has been up and down despite this achievement, whereas Garner has played more consistently at a better standard, Garner is also better in a deeper position.
 
Adnan said:
As far as me not wanting Koopmeiners next to Pogba in a double pivot has also been vindicated. Because playing Pogba and Koopmeiners next to each other without a Matuidi type to provide defensive balance, would've been almost as bad as Matic - Pogba due to the immobile nature of both players who require legs next to them.
Click to expand...
Koopmeiners is still 23 now, he was very mobile when playing against us at Old Trafford. A young Matic was very mobile too, you'll lose your mobility on the pitch at Matic's age.
 
Number32 said:
Koopmeiners is still 23 now, he was very mobile when playing against us at Old Trafford. A young Matic was very mobile too, you'll lose your mobility on the pitch at Matic's age.
Click to expand...
He was quite poor against us at Old Trafford in a 3 man midfield against Jimmy Garner and Matic in a two. We comfortably won the game 4-0.
 
Matic barely plays now, so it could well end up being Garner

I personally hope Garner has another good loan next year before stepping up
 
Adnan said:
He was quite poor against us at Old Trafford in a 3 man midfield against Jimmy Garner and Matic in a two. We comfortably won the game 4-0.
Click to expand...
AZ were playing well for 50 minutes, then collapse after the first goal. He was only 21 at the time, my point is he was very mobile playing as DM but develop himself to be a playmaker CM now and let his partners do the dirty job, that's why he runs less than playing as DM 2 years ago. But he is not naturally slow or immobile at the pitch.

If we bought him to be a DM in a 4-3-3, then I agree with you, he won't be the answer for our DM issue in a faster PL. But if Ole stick with 4-2-3-1 formation, he would be the perfect partner for McT, Fred, and Garner. He could be our 2nd playmaker after Bruno, so he may be a Pogba's replacement not Matic's. I assume Pogba and Matic are gone this summer.
 
Tarrou said:
Matic barely plays now, so it could well end up being Garner

I personally hope Garner has another good loan next year before stepping up
Click to expand...
Yeah I think Garner needs more time to prove himself
 
Bissouma would be great but it seems we have zero interest. Can't understand why Ole wouldn't prioritise a CDM this summer, he surely must see the limitations of McFred pivot?
 
Number32 said:
Koopmeiners is still 23 now, he was very mobile when playing against us at Old Trafford. A young Matic was very mobile too, you'll lose your mobility on the pitch at Matic's age.
Click to expand...
I know there are a few on here who rave about him, but I thought he looked very slow.
 
Number32 said:
AZ were playing well for 50 minutes, then collapse after the first goal. He was only 21 at the time, my point is he was very mobile playing as DM but develop himself to be a playmaker CM now and let his partners do the dirty job, that's why he runs less than playing as DM 2 years ago. But he is not naturally slow or immobile at the pitch.

If we bought him to be a DM in a 4-3-3, then I agree with you, he won't be the answer for our DM issue in a faster PL. But if Ole stick with 4-2-3-1 formation, he would be the perfect partner for McT, Fred, and Garner. He could be our 2nd playmaker after Bruno, so he may be a Pogba's replacement not Matic's. I assume Pogba and Matic are gone this summer.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see Pogba stay for now
 
You must log in or register to reply here.