adrien silva
Potential Matic Replacements
- Thread starter FootyGirl88
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At the moment a one legged man would show greater mobility,and speed!
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Fred, Mata, Pereira.
Hear me out.
All three of them sitting on each other’s shoulders are probably the same height as Matic. They’d just have to wear a really long jersey and pretend it’s him. To be honest they wouldn’t be any less mobile or creative. It would be a bit knackering for the guy on the bottom so they’d have to rotate, maybe hide behind Fellaini’s hair while they do.
Also when we counter the tri-Matic could run behind the ref so he can’t see, and then break out and split up adding 3 to the counter instead of one. We’d swarm every team we played, and the ref wouldn’t keep count as he’d not know how many players were still behind him defending.
Hear me out.
All three of them sitting on each other’s shoulders are probably the same height as Matic. They’d just have to wear a really long jersey and pretend it’s him. To be honest they wouldn’t be any less mobile or creative. It would be a bit knackering for the guy on the bottom so they’d have to rotate, maybe hide behind Fellaini’s hair while they do.
Also when we counter the tri-Matic could run behind the ref so he can’t see, and then break out and split up adding 3 to the counter instead of one. We’d swarm every team we played, and the ref wouldn’t keep count as he’d not know how many players were still behind him defending.
At this rate, I could replace Matic and I'm 44 years old, out of shape, I smoke, and I have a torn maniscus and sprained MCL, not to mention the two ruptured Achilles tendons I went through 12 and 14 years ago...
It won't work with a static team such as ours, where there is little movement and runners, and teams hardly give us space for De Jong to utilize it.
Possession play is more than simply passing the ball. It requires movements, overloads, precise passing to work, all of which is alien to our dear manager.
"The Roto-Matic"
I think a 442 diamond with Mata at the top Pereira at base Pogba and Fred left and right could work. At this point we need to try something new.
Every season a new position becomes our priority.
It's worrying. The recruitment at this club is really bad.
40M and has given us one season. Embarrasing!
Someone wanted him.....
. You say embarrassing but we also wanted 30 year old CB's. Who would also need replace 24 months down the line.
Someone wanted him.....
Who would also need replace 24 months down the line.
I was happy when we got Matic too, and his first season suggested age wouldn't be a factor going into this season.
Maybe it isn't. Maybe he's just low on confidence and he hasn't adjusted to playing as the single pivot in a 433, who knows?
City have a 33 and 32 year old in Fernandinho and Silva, respectively, and they don't seem to be running out of legs. The two do have a different body type to Matic, mind, and that's the problem with us yesterday.
We played three six foot plus midfielders against small, agile players. It didn't work and probably won't 9 times out of 10.
Would have been interesting to see how players like Fred and Pereira have played, but Mourinho favours physicality over technique, I guess.
Going off on one, but you look at Liverpool's midfield, who always seem to trouble City, they have a midfield pretty small midfield.
Wijnaldum - 5'9
Henderson - 6'0
Chamberlain - 5'9
Keita - 5'8
Fabinho - 6'2
Milner - 5'9
Apart from Fabinho and Henderson, who is excellent at pressing, all of these midfielders above are under 6ft and are agile. To me, that's the only way you're going to trouble techincal players. If you stand off them, they'll just pass around you as we saw yesterday.
Sorry for going off on one.
I was happy when we got Matic too, and his first season suggested age wouldn't be a factor going into this season.
Maybe it isn't. Maybe he's just low on confidence and he hasn't adjusted to playing as the single pivot in a 433, who knows?
City have a 33 and 32 year old in Fernandinho and Silva, respectively, and they don't seem to be running out of legs. The two do have a different body type to Matic, mind, and that's the problem with us yesterday.
We played three six foot plus midfielders against small, agile players. It didn't work and probably won't 9 times out of 10.
Would have been interesting to see how players like Fred and Pereira have played, but Mourinho favours physicality over technique, I guess.
Going off on one, but you look at Liverpool's midfield, who always seem to trouble City, they have a midfield pretty small midfield.
Wijnaldum - 5'9
Henderson - 6'0
Chamberlain - 5'9
Keita - 5'8
Fabinho - 6'2
Milner - 5'9
Apart from Fabinho and Henderson, who is excellent at pressing, all of these midfielders above are under 6ft and are agile. To me, that's the only way you're going to trouble techincal players. If you stand off them, they'll just pass around you as we saw yesterday.
Sorry for going off on one.
Well that's what happens when you want to play football I suppose. You intend to want to buy ball players. Hopefully this comes to an end soon. Let's just hope the Glazers wallet doesn't slam shut.
Wouldn't necessarily say ball players as such. Liverpool's midfielders aren't particularly creative, nor are they ball players, but what they do have is the energy to press from start to finish, which unsettles players like Silva, De Bruyne and co.
Sorry I’ve been too busy in the main forum talking to people with no football knwowlede. Yes your right they aren’t ball players as such. But they are intelligent enough to execute a playing style which requires you to be alert to give and go when possession is won back. Something our two Center midfielders cannot offer. Pogba is yet to be proven. He’s never really played in a fast tempo side all his pro career.
No matter who is the manager next season. I upgrade my recommendation of Axel Witsel from Dortmund to a must buy. Witsel is a step to a dominate and champion team. Witsel will turn 30 about 2 months. But he is a player like Giggs. Easy on the toes and can still be really good at 35. If he keeps his current shape of body. He is a really good ball players and good to dictate the ball from his position. And you dont take the ball from easily even with aggressive press.
He suit most for team that have the ball most of the time, since i state him as ball players. A team that dominate and attack a lot. Then you will see what he is best on. Keep the ball in the team. Even in the away lost to AMadrid 2-0. Witsel and Dortmund was dominating, but was sharpen enough. The A.Madrid counter them. Witsel is cm general and he is been able to play quickest football you will see. And that is Dortmund quick, precise and few touches football right now. In others words. I can the manager/coach and leader of United have to be different. Not too defensive minded go into the top and big games. Matic is Mourinho kind of player. But i think Witsel is Mourinho kind of player. Like Pobga, if Witsel want the team to attack dominate attack and dominate, and Mourinho tell them to go out, sit back, win the ball and counter attack into big games. And if the players forget to keep those things in the dressing room. Then it could be a little fight like between Pogba and Mourinho.
I see there are many ways to win football games like Mourinho tactic and set up into big games. But the football i have always admirer my way to winning trophies is. Go and dominate and boss them, let them chase the ball not us. Play on the front foot and on the max and relax when you can. Then my recommendation will of course to style of football and clubs whom play that kind of football too. I m not suggestion players who suit the sit back and counter attack football. And suggest players and would suggest players to join the team that let them play to their max pontential.
So conclusion is i think United have to change Mourinho too. Sorry, but his tactic doesnt suit a club that want to dominate big matches in England and premier league.
He suit most for team that have the ball most of the time, since i state him as ball players. A team that dominate and attack a lot. Then you will see what he is best on. Keep the ball in the team. Even in the away lost to AMadrid 2-0. Witsel and Dortmund was dominating, but was sharpen enough. The A.Madrid counter them. Witsel is cm general and he is been able to play quickest football you will see. And that is Dortmund quick, precise and few touches football right now. In others words. I can the manager/coach and leader of United have to be different. Not too defensive minded go into the top and big games. Matic is Mourinho kind of player. But i think Witsel is Mourinho kind of player. Like Pobga, if Witsel want the team to attack dominate attack and dominate, and Mourinho tell them to go out, sit back, win the ball and counter attack into big games. And if the players forget to keep those things in the dressing room. Then it could be a little fight like between Pogba and Mourinho.
I see there are many ways to win football games like Mourinho tactic and set up into big games. But the football i have always admirer my way to winning trophies is. Go and dominate and boss them, let them chase the ball not us. Play on the front foot and on the max and relax when you can. Then my recommendation will of course to style of football and clubs whom play that kind of football too. I m not suggestion players who suit the sit back and counter attack football. And suggest players and would suggest players to join the team that let them play to their max pontential.
So conclusion is i think United have to change Mourinho too. Sorry, but his tactic doesnt suit a club that want to dominate big matches in England and premier league.
Philip Billing from Huddersfield. Quite athletic tall young midfielder who makes tackles, but also has a long throw which will be most important to Mourinho so that his tall players have more to jump at. I'm not entirely sure how good a passer he is but I doubt thats something Mourinho would care about.
I dont hate Pereira as a player, he is decent. But tbf he has not played at CDM for his entire career, which showed when Mourinho for some strange reason threw him in there against Leicester and Brighton (after an OK pre-season) and it was a shitstorm to witness. He is not even close to be close to be playing CDM for a team like United and even less a sole #6.
That he has been mistreated by Mourinho is completely fair to say, but he should not be anywhere close to playing CDM in the PL (or even less for us). He is an offensive midfielder/RW, positions where he played at Valencia and didnt even make himself a starter.
One of the biggest riddles of this season is how Mourinho has handled Pereira. But something that has been made pretty obvious is that he should not be near the base of our midfield.
Philip Billing from Huddersfield. Quite athletic tall young midfielder who makes tackles, but also has a long throw which will be most important to Mourinho so that his tall players have more to jump at. I'm not entirely sure how good a passer he is but I doubt thats something Mourinho would care about.
Not sure if serious, Billing is utterly average at best. We are Man United, not Newcastle or West Ham United
Better than Matic and Fellaini isnt a spring chicken.
Who is the physical player Mourinho is going to choose instead?
Depends on how we want to play. But I think we need two kinds of players alongside pogba.
A destroyer who can also pass the ball (Kante/Casemeiro) and a playmaker who doesn't shirk his defensive responsibilities (modric, de Jong). We need specialists for both positions. In this regard its a bit strange that we bought Fred because it seems he can't fullfil either of those roles to perfection.
A temporary fix could be to try Herrera or Fred at the 6 position because we need money to spend on more critical positions (CB, RW)
A destroyer who can also pass the ball (Kante/Casemeiro) and a playmaker who doesn't shirk his defensive responsibilities (modric, de Jong). We need specialists for both positions. In this regard its a bit strange that we bought Fred because it seems he can't fullfil either of those roles to perfection.
A temporary fix could be to try Herrera or Fred at the 6 position because we need money to spend on more critical positions (CB, RW)
The only chance of Mourinho signing a creative player in midfield (and actually starting him unlike Fred) is Milenkovic-Savic because he's also physical. I think he will be one of our main targets this summer
i dont think a manager who played xabi alosno regularly or who bought modric to madrid would prefer SMS. i think thats just a form of mourinho bashing.
Fred at cdm would be better, with pogba and pierera on either side.
You do know he once built his midfield on dwarfs like Makelele, Zanetti and Costinha right?
Modric, Alonso ozil as well. When kante snubbed him I was really surprised .
I thought he did well there at the beginning of the season. The good thing about Pereira is that he's a very versatile player, he can play the #8 role as well so there's definitely a place for him in the team as there's a lack of creativity in midfield especially without Pogba.
Yeah that's a good suggestion, even Herrera could be a good option at base when he remembers how to play football again.
Its irrelevant when hes not doing that now.
If Fred had come in and played every week it would suggest he's open to it. But he's sitting on the bench.
What does that tell you?
I'm looking at what he has done at United in 3 years, not what he did half a decade ago
Ruben Neves is the perfect replacement for matic. He would essentially replace carrick. He is a good free kick taker too.
Ruben neves behind Pogba and Fred would be with Andreas perreira as a backup to Pogba n Fred
Ruben neves behind Pogba and Fred would be
with Andreas perreira as a backup to Pogba n FredWe do not need a CDM like Matic. We need a ball playing midfielder who can control the pace of the game. De Jong and Periera would be my choice to be used in rotation along with Pogba and Fred
Sounds good until you realise who we have on the bench. Our 'coach'.
Well first things first, get Mourinho OUT! I don't care if he's able to get us in the top 4 but he's nothing but a termite that is destroying the team slowly. Everyone in the team is bewildered where the team's going under his leadership.
I don't even know what will it take for him to leave our club.
I dont think your point is valid becuase his last 3 yrs cant be seen in isolation. Also a player like SMS would cost over 100 million. If Mourinho had that kind of money to spend on a CM/AM he would definitely not spend it on SMS, that's not the kind of midfield players he normally likes to buy.
Liverpool midfield is more functional than creative i.e. high work rate, press, and move ball quickly into the final 3rd. They struggle when the opposition controls the midfield and cuts them off from their attack (see arsenal and red star games)
Unless you are playing a possession game, a DLP who is not a true ball winner, would need at least one ball winner or high work rate presser ahead of him (e.g. Jorginho+Kante, Pirlo+Gattuso, etc). The almost guaranteed presence in our midfield, and most likely to be out best midfield player for a while is Pogba, and I dont think he provides enough pressing and defensive work rate to cover such a DLP and even if he could, it would likely detract from his offensive contributions.
Another point is the risk of asymmetry, from having one side highly offensive and the other more defensive. For example, Chelsdea's right flank with Alonso+Kovacic+Hazard is more offensive and significantly less defensive when compared to the left flank that features Azzi+kante+Willian. In our case, we would have Shaw+Pogba+Martial on one side
As long as we have Pogba, our priority should remain a getting a good ball winner with playmaking abilities being secondary. The 3rd midfielder can then be used to balance whatever is needed.
On the height requirement, while it is desirable to improve aerial ability, dont think it should be a core requirement, particularly when the other midfielders are not dwarves
Unless you are playing a possession game, a DLP who is not a true ball winner, would need at least one ball winner or high work rate presser ahead of him (e.g. Jorginho+Kante, Pirlo+Gattuso, etc). The almost guaranteed presence in our midfield, and most likely to be out best midfield player for a while is Pogba, and I dont think he provides enough pressing and defensive work rate to cover such a DLP and even if he could, it would likely detract from his offensive contributions.
Another point is the risk of asymmetry, from having one side highly offensive and the other more defensive. For example, Chelsdea's right flank with Alonso+Kovacic+Hazard is more offensive and significantly less defensive when compared to the left flank that features Azzi+kante+Willian. In our case, we would have Shaw+Pogba+Martial on one side
As long as we have Pogba, our priority should remain a getting a good ball winner with playmaking abilities being secondary. The 3rd midfielder can then be used to balance whatever is needed.
On the height requirement, while it is desirable to improve aerial ability, dont think it should be a core requirement, particularly when the other midfielders are not dwarves
Its the type of midfielder he has collected and picked at United consistently over his time here, not somewhere else 5 years ago
Thats 24 starts in the league in CM and DM positions for players over 6'1 this season
9 for players under 6'1. Despite us spending over £50 million on a CM that is under 6'1.
Last season it would be 72 games for players over 6'1 in CM in the league alone. 13 for CMs under 6'1 - all those games being Ander.
Pogba also had 2 games behind the striker on top.
Its very clear what Mourinho is trying to do with our midfield and what he feels is important. It doesnt matter if you dont like it. He hasnt just turned up and not had a transfer window to adjust his midfield options. He's been here for 5 transfer windows and we've spent a lot on that midfield - £188 million.
He clearly wants a tall and powerful midfield. Not Luka Modric.
We have Jose at the club. We will run Matic into the ground before finding the latest 6'4 serbian prospect who runs the lenght of the pitch to make a 5 yard pass. In all seriousness it depends on the style of play. Possession based teams dont need someone too robust, just a player to link play. I always prefer having a balance. For me Rodri looks brilliant, both the stature and technical ability. If not him Weigl would be a good option. He dropped of the radar, he would be available relatively cheap meaning we can focus the funds on a CB, RW and a back up striker.
This is quite funny.Its the type of midfielder he has collected and picked at United consistently over his time here, not somewhere else 5 years ago
Thats 24 starts in the league in CM and DM positions for players over 6'1 this season
9 for players under 6'1. Despite us spending over £50 million on a CM that is under 6'1.
Last season it would be 72 games for players over 6'1 in CM in the league alone. 13 for CMs under 6'1 - all those games being Ander.
Pogba also had 2 games behind the striker on top.
Its very clear what Mourinho is trying to do with our midfield and what he feels is important. It doesnt matter if you dont like it. He hasnt just turned up and not had a transfer window to adjust his midfield options. He's been here for 5 transfer windows and we've spent a lot on that midfield - £188 million.
He clearly wants a tall and powerful midfield. Not Luka Modric.
Mourinho buys a 5'7 CM but he doesn't want a midfielder that is shorter than 6'1.
LvG buys Schweini, Schneiderlin and Herrera, all at least 6'0 so he must be worse than Mourinho
Moyes bought Fellaini who is 6'4 - he must be the worst of the lot!
Did it ever cross your mind that his selection is based more on their performances in games and training?
The extent that some would go to make Mourinho a villian is just hilarious
and how would we get that ball you so much want us to be playing? Think the other team would get bored playing and just pass it to us?
Citeh - Fernandinho
Spurs - Dier
Chelsea - Kante
Arsenal - Xhaka
Liverpool - Fabinho
United - Nah we dont need it
We are never going to solve this problem. When we stockpile on lanky giraffes so we don't get out muscled we are going to be exposed for lack of mobility. When we have small, mobile techno midgets people will call for someone like Fellini to give us more steel and height. People need to make their minds up. Height was a big reason we signed Fellaini after the game he had against us in the opening game of 2012/13(?).I was happy when we got Matic too, and his first season suggested age wouldn't be a factor going into this season.
Maybe it isn't. Maybe he's just low on confidence and he hasn't adjusted to playing as the single pivot in a 433, who knows?
City have a 33 and 32 year old in Fernandinho and Silva, respectively, and they don't seem to be running out of legs. The two do have a different body type to Matic, mind, and that's the problem with us yesterday.
We played three six foot plus midfielders against small, agile players. It didn't work and probably won't 9 times out of 10.
Would have been interesting to see how players like Fred and Pereira have played, but Mourinho favours physicality over technique, I guess.
Going off on one, but you look at Liverpool's midfield, who always seem to trouble City, they have a midfield pretty small midfield.
Wijnaldum - 5'9
Henderson - 6'0
Chamberlain - 5'9
Keita - 5'8
Fabinho - 6'2
Milner - 5'9
Apart from Fabinho and Henderson, who is excellent at pressing, all of these midfielders above are under 6ft and are agile. To me, that's the only way you're going to trouble techincal players. If you stand off them, they'll just pass around you as we saw yesterday.
Sorry for going off on one.
Why are saying he's a "villiain"? You dont think a tall powerful midfield can work?
You are the one suggesting that using tall powerful players makes someone a villain (I assume thats what you meant) not me. So thats a very weird comment.
Its not working for us right now, at least not in the way we'd expect it to work with the players overpowering smaller ones and us scoring from set pieces. But that doesnt mean it wont work with new players added to it. I think its obvious we're going to still get more players for midfield with Matic and Fellaini at their ages.
I'm simply saying that in his 3 seasons here Mourinho has already shown us what he values and wants from his midfield. There are no signs of that including a small creative player. The closest would be this summer when we bought a small player, but he doesnt start. Mourinho also hyped up another small player, but for some reason wanted to use him as a DM where he's never been used before. He was quickly dropped too.
Now if those players were playing regularly then we can see that Mourinho is perfectly happy to move away from the land of giants midfield he has been using. But the small players have been dropped, when Andreas didnt do anything the rest of the team werent doing and Fred was dropped when he finally had a good game. Meanwhile Matic plays regardless of how poorly he performs. It very much looks like if Andreas or Fred are going to actually play they need to do a lot more than a tall player like Matic is doing. That once again shows what Mourinho values in his midfield.