Potential English Targets

[Silverman]

I didnt say we did - it just points out how untrustworthy the media can be - and that he does not see himself as a striker

No, I know you didn't.

 

[saivet]

Actually he said behind the striker
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32123050

But the tabliod papers decided it was better to say he wanted to be a striker
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ross-barkley-im-a-striker-5430008

Both quote his interview with Premier League World as the source of their quotes... and they say behind the striker
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/...-barkley-confident-he-can-find-best-form.html

That makes a lot more sense. I remember reading his comments thinking he's basically described how he loves playing behind the striker, but then says "I'm a striker". I thought maybe he was just more dim than I initially thought.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

We have plenty of HG and English players in an around the first team squad.

If you look at the u21s and younger English players, there aren't that many amazing ones who we really should be going for.

Sterling is one who has proved himself, but is pretty much unobtainable at this stage. The others, Kane included, have something to prove still.

 

[NoPace]

Not the right thread but just to nail this Barkley stuff. LVG has talked a lot about not wanting players running with the ball - particularly in midfield. It happens to be Barkleys strength....no chance our manager would want him.

It does suggest we might have trouble integrating English players in, though, as many of them have shined by running with the ball (Sterling, Barkley, Roberts, Zaha and even Wilshere in the context of CM play).

In terms of young English players who seem to fit Van Gaal's preferred style of play, I'd say Stones for his technical skill at CB, Clyne for his versatility and being technically solid, and Kane for his strength and relative unselfishness for a 9.

 

[khoazany]

Will they be relaxing the criteria on who 15 year olds can train with - or do they still have to train within a certain distance of their home because as well as home grown criteria Isnt there also stipulations about player coming from your own academy?

There is no criteria for 15 years old.For 13 years old and above we can sign them from anywhere in England (and Wales/Northern Ireland?) I believe.But still non-English players can only be signed when they're 16 unless his family moved to England for non-footballing reason (club can always find a way to workaround that - see Chelsea's Jeremie Boga and others - but they would be at risk for a Barca-esque ban if they brought too many by the same way).

 

[Rozay]

Barkley might be the most overrated English youngster in history. Has done close to nothing in his career and not even a starter for Everton but en route to becoming an all time great in CM. Madness.

You have an interesting way of summarising his career. My suspicion is that it will only take a 'United agree £35m deal for Barkley' headline for you to instead focus on the obvious and considerable positives in his game instead.

It isn't solely by way of lottery that he is rated/valued higher than Ashley Westwood. He clearly has huge potential.

 

[goin4glory]

You have an interesting way of summarising his career. My suspicion is that it will only take a 'United agree £35m deal for Barkley' headline for you to instead focus on the obvious and considerable positives in his game instead.

It isn't solely by way of lottery that he is rated/valued higher than Ashley Westwood. He clearly has huge potential.

My opinions of a player are not based on if he plays for United. I am very capable of objectively assessing a players ability and English players get overhyped more than anyone else in the world. If he was Dutch he wouldn't get a fraction of the attention. Even the potential he has shown doesn't come close to warranting a big money move.

 

[Rozay]

My opinions of a player are not based on if he plays for United. I am very capable of objectively assessing a players ability and English players get overhyped more than anyone else in the world. If he was Dutch he wouldn't get a fraction of the attention. Even the potential he has shown doesn't come close to warranting a big money move.

People always play the 'English player being overhyped' card, but I'm not sure it is as true as people say. Players do get hype by the media, but in contrast - I'd say there is an inferiority complex amongst the fans. Typically, the Spanish, German, Italian etc version of a good English player would be a more desirable signing, and are generally rated higher. I think it affects the mentality of a lot of players too, especially in international football. It is as if they don't feel they are allowed to be as good as their counterparts.

I have seen fans get excited for years over young foreign players who have proven little, and the bar is usually a lot higher for a British player to earn similar praise. I think fans here have to wait until they see validation from abroad to really get behind it. Until they hear that Real or Bayern want to sign Leighton Baines or whoever, they would probably have preferred to sign the 'highly-rated' Moreno from Sevilla - who incidentally has turned out to be rubbish since coming here.

Barkley is an enormous talent. He has had many very good games and great moments against top PL opposition, and has also performed well for England, all before 20 if I'm not mistaken. Of course, he could go either way, but he is technically excelent, can dribble, has a great frame, can run with the ball, has a strike on him and is totally ambidextrous. For me to say he could be up there with the best PL midfielders one day - I remember a similar tool-kit with a 20 year old Gerrard. Gerrard had a better passing range, but could never dribble like Barkley.

I'd say we should just wait and see, but I think if Barkley was 20 and Spanish, his hype would be higher, and more on the caf would be interested in the same player if he were 20 and doing the same for Valencia.

 

[goin4glory]

People always play the 'English player being overhyped' card, but I'm not sure it is as true as people say. Players do get hype by the media, but in contrast - I'd say there is an inferiority complex amongst the fans. Typically, the Spanish, German, Italian etc version of a good English player would be a more desirable signing, and are generally rated higher. I think it affects the mentality of a lot of players too, especially in international football. It is as if they don't feel they are allowed to be as good as their counterparts.

I have seen fans get excited for years over young foreign players who have proven little, and the bar is usually a lot higher for a British player to earn similar praise. I think fans here have to wait until they see validation from abroad to really get behind it. Until they hear that Real or Bayern want to sign Leighton Baines or whoever, they would probably have preferred to sign the 'highly-rated' Moreno from Sevilla - who incidentally has turned out to be rubbish since coming here.

Barkley is an enormous talent. He has had many very good games and great moments against top PL opposition, and has also performed well for England, all before 20 if I'm not mistaken. Of course, he could go either way, but he is technically excelent, can dribble, has a great frame, can run with the ball, has a strike on him and is totally ambidextrous. For me to say he could be up there with the best PL midfielders one day - I remember a similar tool-kit with a 20 year old Gerrard. Gerrard had a better passing range, but could never dribble like Barkley.

I'd say we should just wait and see, but I think if Barkley was 20 and Spanish, his hype would be higher, and more on the caf would be interested in the same player if he were 20 and doing the same for Valencia.

I disagree on foreign players being rated higher, fans will always get excited about players who have done well in other leagues but in the end it's just an opinion. What shows as a fact that English players are massively overrated/hyped is how much they go for in the transfer market compared to foreign counterparts. While as a fan I would hate my club to be ran like them Newcastle are a great example of a side who consistently get quality players from abroad at a fraction of what they would cost if they were English/British. Wenger has almost made an entire career of it.

As for Barkley while his raw assets are decent he has little to no discipline even when he's playing in an attacking midfield role, sure it looks great in MOTD highlights seeing someone playing off the cuff and having a few nice moments but his game is non existent outside the final 3rd and even worse when Everton don't have the ball, his off the ball movement is very poor which isn't unusual for someone who has other attributes but still a mark against him. Modern day football tactics are at an all time high you simply can't afford to have players who occasionally get involved when the game suits them and look like a headless chicken in tactical aspects.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I disagree on foreign players being rated higher, fans will always get excited about players who have done well in other leagues but in the end it's just an opinion. What shows as a fact that English players are massively overrated/hyped is how much they go for in the transfer market compared to foreign counterparts. While as a fan I would hate my club to be ran like them Newcastle are a great example of a side who consistently get quality players from abroad at a fraction of what they would cost if they were English/British. Wenger has almost made an entire career of it.

That is not because of hype. That is because of how rich clubs are in England.

 

[goin4glory]

That is not because of hype. That is because of how rich clubs are in England.

Clubs aren't so rich that they just ignore perfectly good/better options on the continent for a fraction of the price, they're a business and value money. They pay for these players because the scouting systems at the majority of clubs is fairly laughable which leads to bog standard British players being recycled from club to club on massively inflated fee's wages and any upcoming talent to be labelled as a potential world beater.

Most of these clubs would be much better off investing in a good scouting network instead of paying Steven Fletcher 70k a week.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Clubs aren't so rich that they just ignore perfectly good/better options on the continent for a fraction of the price, they're a business and value money. They pay for these players because the scouting systems at the majority of clubs is fairly laughable which leads to bog standard British players being recycled from club to club on massively inflated fee's wages and any upcoming talent to be labelled as a potential world beater.

Most of these clubs would be much better off investing in a good scouting network instead of paying Steven Fletcher 70k a week.

Foreign players at English clubs cost more too, clubs value Premier League experience highly as opposed to having to risk players fit into a new league and country.

Steven Fletcher is also not on 70k a week. Newcaslte haven't been even close to consistently buying quality players either.

 

[goin4glory]

Foreign players at English clubs cost more too, clubs value Premier League experience highly as opposed to having to risk players fit into a new league and country.

Steven Fletcher is also not on 70k a week. Newcaslte haven't been even close to consistently buying quality players either.

Newcastle are 20th with regards to net spend in the league over the past 5 seasons and have the 2nd best revenue turnover/wages % in the league, so compared to what they're investing the results have been excellent (from a purely business perspective) and that's largely down to the strategy of taking "risks" on players from foreign leagues since they won't be massively overpriced or overhyped due to a lack of "premiership experience". Never in a million years do they get Cabaye for 5m if he's English, or Debuchy for 5.5 or Sissoko for 2.5.

I'm not sure of the exact figure Fletcher is on but he had 3/4 clubs all fighting for his signature when he was looking to move and Sunderland paid him well over the odds in wages to land him, Defoe is currently on more than 70k a week. What's certain though is you could find about 30 strikers on the continent much better than he is on less than half of what he's getting at Sunderland.

 

[manutddjw]

Thinking about this, it's a screwed up situation for English players and rules that were put in place to help develop English players such as the home grown rule have had by-product that have actually hurt the development of English players.

Stones would be a good signing for us, but if I were being neutral, it would be bad for him and England. It's a similar situation with Phil Jones when we signed him. He's not ready to be playing for us regularly right now, so he goes from playing regularly to playing once in awhile. For the good of the players development it would be better for him to stay at Everton for at least another season. But because there's a premium on English players, clubs have no choice but to buy him now because he's rated at 30 Million because of potential. If he reaches his potential he'll be worth double that. Can't really fault the clubs or the league for this.

To answer the question. The most obvious one is Clyne, seeing as Rafael doesn't seem to be rated by LvG. Sterling would add alot to our team but Liverpool will never sell to us.

 

[JPRouve]

Thinking about this, it's a screwed up situation for English players and rules that were put in place to help develop English players such as the home grown rule have had by-product that have actually hurt the development of English players.

Stones would be a good signing for us, but if I were being neutral, it would be bad for him and England. It's a similar situation with Phil Jones when we signed him. He's not ready to be playing for us regularly right now, so he goes from playing regularly to playing once in awhile. For the good of the players development it would be better for him to stay at Everton for at least another season. But because there's a premium on English players, clubs have no choice but to buy him now because he's rated at 30 Million because of potential. If he reaches his potential he'll be worth double that. Can't really fault the clubs or the league for this.

To answer the question. The most obvious one is Clyne, seeing as Rafael doesn't seem to be rated by LvG. Sterling would add alot to our team but Liverpool will never sell to us.

I see what you mean but, if you compare to Spain or Germany, the only screwed up situation is that England can't produce enough top premier league talents. England lack the quantity in the quality.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Thinking about this, it's a screwed up situation for English players and rules that were put in place to help develop English players such as the home grown rule have had by-product that have actually hurt the development of English players.

Stones would be a good signing for us, but if I were being neutral, it would be bad for him and England. It's a similar situation with Phil Jones when we signed him. He's not ready to be playing for us regularly right now, so he goes from playing regularly to playing once in awhile. For the good of the players development it would be better for him to stay at Everton for at least another season. But because there's a premium on English players, clubs have no choice but to buy him now because he's rated at 30 Million because of potential. If he reaches his potential he'll be worth double that. Can't really fault the clubs or the league for this.

To answer the question. The most obvious one is Clyne, seeing as Rafael doesn't seem to be rated by LvG. Sterling would add alot to our team but Liverpool will never sell to us.

Jones actually played regularly for us when he first joined. His appearance numbers do not look that great those first two years because of his injury record. And with our defensive injuries, European Footall and the fact that Stones can play RB means Stones would get plenty of playing time if he came here next season.

 

[gooDevil]

Open the mines back up! British football never recovered from losing its mines. Best environment to learn to appreciate fresh air and space to run into.

 

[Freak]

Stones, Clyne, Barkley, Berahinho are all obtainable and good.

 

[Devil may care]

Another quality performance from Stones today, he is going to be the next top drawer English CB in my view and we should get in before City of Chelsea do.