[DavelinaJolie]

As I said in the race for top four thread, this was the game that worried me least because Wolves are toothless up front. It was a good result, a decent performance and valuable three points, but I think the remaining three games are more of a concern. I don't know why but the Fulham game worries me most of all.

 

[Reditus]

As I said in the race for top four thread, this was the game that worried me least because Wolves are toothless up front. It was a good result, a decent performance and valuable three points, but I think the remaining three games are more of a concern. I don't know why but the Fulham game worries me most of all.

Hopefully Leicester will do us a favour tomorrow and we won’t need to worry

yesterday was a vital win. Next weekend we go away to Bournemouth, away from a concern but it’s very winnable. They are safe and look like theyve checked out for the season.

 

[Shiva87]

You’re being incredibly harsh here. If he were as clinical as this you’d be Looking at a 100 goal involvement per season winger

not really mate. I’m looking at a 25-30 goal involvement winger. He has 7 goals and 2 assists in about 38 games this season. That’s not good enough and a big reason for our lack of goals.

I really hope he kicks in next season, because I genuinely think it’s a matter of decision making - which can always be improved with good mentoring. He seems to have everything else!

 

[mitchmouse]

Having seen the 30 mins highlights now, I though Antony was very involved and had a good game. reckon once he settles in and gets better at decision making, he will be very good for us.

I know everyone raves about Bruno but his goal tally has been far too low this season (same for all midfielders) but his creative work has probably improved - a real centre forward would have increased those numbers for him!

Great to have Varane back... so much less panic at the back with him there. But another nose-bleed moment from DDG: he just doesn't learn and could almost have got sent off if he'd made contact with that rush out of the area. Heard an amazing stat on5Live: he has collected just 3.2% of crosses ino hos area this season: that's appalling.

Martial continues to be a waste of space - I'd play Garnacho down the middle ahead of both WW and Martial. Great finish from the kid. His pace and that of Antony will be great if we get a top striker on the end of them...

 

[USREDEVIL]

all bark no bite

comeon liverstool drop some points ffs

 

[Maticmaker]

Solid result, still some problems, but having Varane back is a God send. Not only does he instill calm at the back but going forward he is a driving force because he is willing and able to carry the ball forward, without a nose-bleed or panic.
Antony will improve, he missed two great chances, but took no chances when he spotted Martial in position, his ability to get past on the wide run is great, just needs to be able to use his right foot for more than standing on,
Having Garnacho back also warmed the cockles of my heart!!.

 

[DSG]

Why is it bizarre? Please elaborate, beyond "Rashford scores a lot", as I've already pointed out how we actually score more when he's out.

Do we? He’s missed roughly 4-5 matches all season. Who were we playing against? Did we have our first choice 11 on the pitch? What was the opposing team’s setup? Did we create quality chances but not finish?

It’s bizarre because you are making a bold claim with zero data, and pretty flimsy analysis as to why we are better without him on the pitch.

There are way too many variables in such a small sample size that leads us to a faulty conclusion. Ten Hag and the analytics team know much, much more than we do about Rashford’s impact.

But, by all means, let’s sell Rashford because we don’t need 29 goals from a winger position when we’ve got Wout, the oft-injured Martial, and a sad sack Sancho to replace him.

 

[Zed 101]

Just goes to show how poor the options from the bench have been, Martial, Sancho and Weghorst (although at least he tries) Garnacho is back for 15 minutes and has more impact than all those 3 have had as subs for the entire time he has been injured!

 

[justsomebloke]

A pretty decent performance against a really toothless Wolves side. No more, no less. Good result. At least this breaks the panic spiral, although I'm not too sure it provided a great deal of comfort ahead of upcoming fixtures.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

A pretty decent performance against a really toothless Wolves side. No more, no less. Good result. At least this breaks the panic spiral, although I'm not too sure it provided a great deal of comfort ahead of upcoming fixtures.

I think we should give ourselves some credit here. Most teams who come to OT look toothless.

 

[DSG]

Yet he played well today. One assist and a brilliant save away from scoring, with another shot inches wide of the post with the keeper beaten. Plus that fantastic run from deep which ended in a very good chance for Martial. Why do people so often just list off preconceptions about players instead of acknowledging their performance on the day?

Article on summer buys, Antony listed first… I think they are being a bit harsh, but also some good points in there:
https://www.espn.com/sports/soccer/...t-transfers-antony-haaland-gabriel-jesus-more

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Article on summer buys, Antony listed first… I think they are being a bit harsh, but also some good points in there:
https://www.espn.com/sports/soccer/...t-transfers-antony-haaland-gabriel-jesus-more

That article is full of an awful lot of bollox. Reads like it was written by some bedroom YouTube “expert”. Full of made up %’s and completely arbitrary grading. The stuff about Darwin Nunez is particularly egregious. I stopped reading at that point.

 

[DSG]

Article on summer buys, Antony listed first… I think they are being a bit harsh, but also some good points in there:
https://www.espn.com/sports/soccer/...t-transfers-antony-haaland-gabriel-jesus-more

I didn’t watch enough of Nunez to compare his stats heavy analysis with the eye test. However, his thoughts on Antony actually do fit my assessment of Antony. I’m not sure it’s a D-, but certainly we are in a wait and see mode for Antony. Question, given what we know about both Antony and Nunez, do you think we would have been better as a team with Nunez as our first choice striker than we have been with buying another expensive winger? Between Rashford, Antony, Garnacho, Sancho, Pellistri, and Amad Diallo coming back, don’t you think that instead of buying yet another winger, we should have brought in Nunez? Criminal to spend so much on wingers while at the same time have no depth at striker.

I suppose that we had Ronaldo at the time so it didn’t make sense, but still…

 

[justsomebloke]

That article is full of an awful lot of bollox. Reads like it was written by some bedroom YouTube “expert”. Full of made up %’s and completely arbitrary grading. The stuff about Darwin Nunez is particularly egregious. I stopped reading at that point.

Then you missed the worst parts - the ones that say Richarlison and Raheem Sterling were much better purchases than Casemiro.

It strikes me that this is a good example of American sports journalism's current excessive infatuation with stats (I love stats, but there's a limit). I read a good deal about the NHL, and these days the discourse seems to be all about "driving play", "wins added" and suchlike, with stuff like actual points scored being largely an afterthought. It takes a fair amount of knowledge to even understand what writers are talking about. It's nuts.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I didn’t watch enough of Nunez to compare his stats heavy analysis with the eye test. However, his thoughts on Antony actually do fit my assessment of Antony. I’m not sure it’s a D-, but certainly we are in a wait and see mode for Antony. Question, given what we know about both Antony and Nunez, do you think we would have been better as a team with Nunez as our first choice striker than we have been with buying another expensive winger? Between Rashford, Antony, Garnacho, Sancho, Pellistri, and Amad Diallo coming back, don’t you think that instead of buying yet another winger, we should have brought in Nunez? Criminal to spend so much on wingers while at the same time have no depth at striker.

I suppose that we had Ronaldo at the time so it didn’t make sense, but still…

I definitely think that signing a striker with really top class hold up play and finishing (two qualities that rule out Nunez!) would have transformed the team. But, as you say, Ronaldo muddied the waters and I’m willing to accept that the striker we desperately need might not have been available in January.

As for Anthony, I think everyone just needs to take a step back and think how basically all our attacking football has been down our left flank for… let me see… the last 10 years?

Yet this season we seem to be much more well balanced. If anything, the right side of our attack has been more threatening. Plus opposition attacks look more threatening on our left than our right (another trend reversal) So even if Antony isn’t producing the number we’re hoping for he’s had a clear positive effect already. In his debut season. While still quite young.

So I don’t really get all the extreme criticism. It can only come from people who value stats over watching the actual games unfold in front of them.

 

[DSG]

Then you missed the worst parts - the ones that say Richarlison and Raheem Sterling were much better purchases than Casemiro.

It strikes me that this is a good example of American sports journalism's current excessive infatuation with stats (I love stats, but there's a limit). I read a good deal about the NHL, and these days the discourse seems to be all about "driving play", "wins added" and suchlike, with stuff like actual points scored being largely an afterthought. It takes a fair amount of knowledge to even understand what writers are talking about. It's nuts.

Agree with this. fecking Americans, ruining sports journalism with nonstop advanced metrics

Seriously though, all of the new wave of advanced stat heavy analysis came from baseball and has infiltrated every sport now. Most of this is designed to give an edge to talent evaluators and director of football types as a was to quantify and justify decisions to the owners.

Casemiro has given away quite a few passes this season, it’s the only negative to his performance so far. From my eye test, most of those errant passes went to areas of the pitch where the target player should be, but they actually weren’t. Casemiro has had to dumb down his game for us IMHO. When you’ve gone from Kroos and Modric to the likes of McFred, one can understand why he’s had so many errant passes.

‘I think Casemiro has a better than decent chance of being our Player of the Year.

 

[DSG]

I definitely think that signing a striker with really top class hold up play and finishing (two qualities that rule out Nunez!) would have transformed the team. But, as you say, Ronaldo muddied the waters and I’m willing to accept that the striker we desperately need might not have been available in January.

As for Anthony, I think everyone just needs to take a step back and think how basically all our attacking football has been down our left flank for… let me see… the last 10 years?

Yet this season we seem to be much more well balanced. If anything, the right side of our attack has been more threatening. Plus opposition attacks look more threatening on our left than our right (another trend reversal) So even if Antony isn’t producing the number we’re hoping for he’s had a clear positive effect already. In his debut season. While still quite young.

So I don’t really get all the extreme criticism. It can only come from people who value stats over watching the actual games unfold in front of them.

Of the games I have watched with Nunez, I agree, his finishing is a problem. Hold up play looked decent, but I only watched a handful of matches. Certainly didn’t look worse than Wout, looked better than Cristiano. Martial is actually pretty good at hold up play IMHO. Wout, for being 6’6” is actually pretty poor at hold up play.

The two areas where Nunez stands out for me are: 1. Finishing. He’s been pretty awful. How many gilt edged chances has he missed? 2. Movement. This is where Nunez looks to be the real deal. He puts himself in an awful lot of great positions. Much better than Wout and Martial.

Ithink the frustration with Antony is that we expected a finished article for€95m. He’s been better than anyone we’ve had in the last few years for sure, but while he can create chances, his decision making in the final third is pretty bad. But no doubt, he’s the best of the bunch. It will be interesting to see what happens when Diallo gets into camp, Pellistri with another season under his belt. At this point, Antony looks more like Richarlson than Neymar. We should definitely continue to support Antony and hopefully he can make the leap.

BTW, it wasn’t too long ago that we looked to have RW position locked up for years to come. Greenwood had an excellent season during the pandemic… he’s been the best RW by far in the last few years.

 

[justsomebloke]

Agree with this. fecking Americans, ruining sports journalism with nonstop advanced metrics

Seriously though, all of the new wave of advanced stat heavy analysis came from baseball and has infiltrated every sport now. Most of this is designed to give an edge to talent evaluators and director of football types as a was to quantify and justify decisions to the owners.

Casemiro has given away quite a few passes this season, it’s the only negative to his performance so far. From my eye test, most of those errant passes went to areas of the pitch where the target player should be, but they actually weren’t. Casemiro has had to dumb down his game for us IMHO. When you’ve gone from Kroos and Modric to the likes of McFred, one can understand why he’s had so many errant passes.

‘I think Casemiro has a better than decent chance of being our Player of the Year.

Agreed. Metrics is great for football. It could - should - be great for football journalism too. But firstly you've got to contextualize it relative to the sport - football isn't a sport where a certain metric seen in isolation is a direct measure of performance, much less so than in most other sports. And in any case, journalism should be written in a language that is accessible without requiring specialist knowledge. You don't expect a general interest article about a new car to be written in the language of engine designers or physicists, or an article about where the economy is heading to the discuss the issue in the language of statistical analysis. But this is exactly what hockey writers are now doing. It's just awful writing. They could make the same points without recourse to specialist vocabulary and impenetrable concepts, it'd just take more effort.