[Tincanalley]

Believe what you like but if something happens over and over it’s probably because someone is causing it. Jose doesn’t learn from his mistakes he isn’t interested in admitting he is wrong and trying something new. That is why he has the same outcome. It isn’t rocket science.

Agree with the other poster. Lazy post to spout this kind of formula; third season syndrome. I read it in the paper. Try and be a bit more original

 

[Murray3007]

So you believe that if we have a set system, the minute we make any change to that we will turn to shit? Is this acceptable of professionals?

He has had years to identify a system that he prefers, millions to bring in players that will work in that system and yet his defender is playing offside when he has a teammate 20 yards behind him, his team can hardly create chances on a consistent basis and when they do his big #9 usually fecks it up, his reaction to going behind is to hoof it to Fellaini and his team's overall approach to general play is quite shit.

You say it took Pep a year to settle on his system (I'll take your word for it since I've not seen their games), surely you must also realise Jose has had quite a lot of time here as well? Is there a clearly discernible system in which United are playing? I'm no expert but this team looks like they're doing random stuff hoping something will work.

if we have a set system that is being worked on week out week in then yes we will get better in that system, its quite simple really, and if we are to change the system then yes it will take time to get things right and there will be mistakes along the way. its again pretty simple surely for you to understand this.

on to your second statement like I said all 3 goals were down to errors from individual players, changing from a back 4 to 3 always seems to be problems for every team I have ever seen do it. so its quite a common problem in football not just united.

on your pep issue I never it took pep a year to decide on a system, he has one system that he plays almost all the time, and it took the players a season to settle in to it or he moved them on and got better players in.

I aint no Jose fan, but last night was the 1st time I have seen us go for it, yes we ultimately got beat and it looks bad, but almost all the café wanted a reaction after brighton and we got it, we got more pressing up the park, more tempo and more urgency. the midfielders were expressing themselves, the full backs were bombing on, the quality wasnt there but its a start, quite simple as well Kane has a half chance and scores a brilliant goal, Lukkau has 3 better chances and misses, we don't have an elite striker which is a problem. we ran out of steam in the end which is no surprise really because half the team was playing there 1st game of the season.

 

[Davs]

Yes losing 0-3 at home is unacceptable against any team, but we didn't deserve it.

Somehow Lukaku misses a sitter again which should send us 1-0 up and then it's an entirely different game.

We're far too fragile in defence and disorganised, probably playing Herrera as a CB in a crunch game isn't a good idea either. He played Eriksen onside that let to their second goal which we can't really knock him for as he's not a CB afterall. Jones and Smalling were all over the shop and Lindelof when he came on, well, say no more.

On another day lads we would have got two goals in that first half, but it just doesn't seem to be going out way at the moment and our defence are nothing to rely upon, except Luke Shaw.

 

[RedSky]

I'll stand corrected at the end of the season but I see real similarities with what Jose did at Chelsea.

Good players becoming bad players. Loss of confidence. No set pattern of play. Players being thrown out of the team.

How on earth can Sanchez tear it up at Arsenal and be nothing at Utd? How can Pogba play like that at the world cup but be a shadow of that player for Utd? What did he really do last night? I wouldn't throw Lukaku under the same bus just yet but there are signs.

While Jones and Smalling may not be the best centre halves in the PL they are better than last night. This is a team with similar personnel to the beginning of last season that has regressed.

Ignore those signs at your peril.

Sanchez is a tricky one as there were signs he was regressing at Arsenal. His stats for them in 17/18 were not great, lots of shots, few goals and giving the ball away a lot. It was brought up when we were signing him.

I do agree with your post though. At least Jose is actually trying to change the squad this time round, I remember being stunned at his love in for Ivanovic who would never be dropped despite being obviously past it.

 

[cathari]

Comparing yesterday’s performance with the one versus Brighton I saw clear positives. We just have to gut it out, and the goals will come.

 

[MancFanFromManc]

I went last night, so here's my report (North S T2, front row, in line with half way line, so great view). Firstly as I don't go as often as I used to I was buzzing for this. Me and mate took an early train into town, had a nice warm up then met some more peeps at Frank & Bennys. Everyone on good form, even the rain had stopped... Enjoyed the first half, thought we really had Spurs wobbling, but we were tense when the chances came, and they were wasted. When Lukaku rounded Lloris he had time to switch to his left foot, so that was a very poor miss. From the stands it looked like confidence is fragile and we're trying to force the football rathe than relax and play our game. Does that come from the manager or simply from a desire to win and put things right? The goals were gut wrenching, really soft and awful defending. Good save from Lloris from Lukaku just after their first goal, but conceding two more was a tough watch. One additional observation was this: At Old Trafford we've always looked like we out numbered the opposition. Historically we've always looked like we had an extra man on the pitch. No so anyway. Everytime we attacked they had the extra man. Maybe that's simply because Mourinho refuses to play two up front. United have always played with two strikers. For me he needs to play our 9 & 10 together. Surely this is blindingly obvious. Lukaku to hold it up, Rashford using his pace to feed off him. 4-3-3 isn't working Mou!

 

[mancan92]

I don't get you guys. You cry for Attacking football and you got that in the first half. You bossed them and created chance after chance after chance. and your defense allow Spurs to score 3 goals but overall this is not a bad performance and how can you blame the manager for individual errors

Because mistakes tend to come from low confidence players and the manager is responsible for their confidence.

 

[LARulz]

Any interviews from our players etc.?

 

[Mr Anderson]

We've needed 4 new players every summer since about 2012. Are we really this unlucky in bringing in players? Something is rotten at the club, how can we buy so much crap, how can no manager get a full season of consistency out of them? How are our rivals picking up solid buys for reasonable prices? What the hell is going on? It makes me angry, but then i just sort of have to laugh at the shambles...

Ya our club sadly screams of panic for at least 6 years. Moyes delayed our entire rebirth after Fergies years. Players we signed were attainable to Woodward - no one else would pay what they wanted, our buddy Jorge Mendes and Mino Raiola dangling players in front of Woodward - in the end they didnt perform or want to be here in the first place. Not the true player we needed. Now we have a squad of "yera this lad will do" signings.

Fergie is human and got things wrong. But what he was able to do was sign players who'd give 120% for the club and him. Whereas after all the years we have lads on very good wages wanting to play second fiddle rather than stand up and be a true leader.

We have no stability - no clear direction from above. Jose has patched us up a little but still not got it right as yet, with some signings not up to it for now at least.

We are a mess all over. Top to bottom and inside out.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Jim White p*sses me off. Just saying. He is going to go on a tirade about Jose insulting the gentlemen of the media ( I use that term very loosely). Only disappointment for me was that he didn't punch Jamie Jackson in the face.

 

[RedSky]

Ya our club sadly screams of panic for at least 6 years. Moyes delayed our entire rebirth after Fergies years. Players we signed were attainable to Woodward - no one else would pay what they wanted, our buddy Jorge Mendes and Mino Raiola dangling players in front of Woodward - in the end they didnt perform or want to be here in the first place.

Fergie is human and got things wrong. But what he was able to do was sign players who'd give 120% for the club and him. Whereas after all the years we have lads on very good wages wanting to play second fiddle rather than stand up and be a true leader.

We have no stability - no clear direction from above. Jose has patched us up a little but still not got it right as yet, with some signing not up to it for now at least.

We are a mess all over. Top to bottom and inside out.

The problem is giving the Manager complete power over transfers imo. As soon as we get rid of a Manager the next one wants a brand new set of players and we start over. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we should have got a Director of Football as soon as Sir Alex left and modernised the club straight away.

 

[#07]

Any interviews from our players etc.?

 

[Tincanalley]

Stretford End showed true class tonight.

Very important point. Support the manager and the team.

 

[Mr Anderson]

The problem is giving the Manager complete power over transfers imo. As soon as we get rid of a Manager the next one wants a brand new set of players and we start over. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we should have got a Director of Football as soon as Sir Alex left and modernised the club straight away.

Dropped the ball leaving Woodie into a role he was never even really trained in to do. Just as much as not having a leader on the pitch, we don't have one from above. Even LvG was taken aback by how much was expected of him in terms of transfer targets.

We have a lot wrong with this football club. No easy answer here - definitely not a simple case of booting Jose out the door.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Such a bizarre game. I don't think we can blame Jose for this one.

He set us up to attack and from the first whistle, we did exactly that. OT was booming for the first time in ages, it felt good to hear and we had them on the ropes for a long portion of the half.

Second half, we simply capitulated with individual errors and chaos. We fell apart and Spurs took their chances. Such a deflating and demoralising loss.

I thought Jose played a blinder last night, from the way he set us up to attack to his sportsmansip with Pochettino to the way he applauded the fans. Even the way he walked out of the interview, the media are scum and I don't mind him treating them with disdain.

However, he still seems to be a dead man walking. Our club is in shambles yet again and if we rip up the script now, we can call it another 3 yrs of rebuilding.

 

[RedSky]

Dropped the ball leaving Woodie into a role he was never even really trained in to do. Just as much as not having a leader on the pitch, we don't have one from above. Even LvG was taken aback by how much was expected of him in terms of transfer targets.

We have a lot wrong with this football club. No easy answer here - definitely not a simple case of booting Jose out the door.

Think we'll have to commit to a double signing of a Director of Football and new Manager sooner or later. Once we have some actual true long term thinking we'll be ok, it's whether Ed is willing to give up that role is the question.

 

[atticus finch]

It's a shame to read all the Lukaku criticism. I know it was a bad miss but it glosses over the real problems. I thought he ran his heart out. It is a shame that we play a lot of the time with only one attacker up front in their area, it makes Lukaku's job difficult against any central defenders, let alone good ones.

Good first half. I thought Shaw, Lingard and Matic were good. Herrera tried hard but has little creatively. Pogba just doesn't seem to care very much. It looks like we have a challenging season ahead of us.

 

[minoo-utd]

We are at a point where we can not blame one and leave the others go away with it. From the top organisation to the pitch are all to blame can't exclude a single person. Start from the board who know nothing about football they are only sucking money, through our scouts who really i don't know what their jobs? to all the coaching staff the manager and those players who do not deserve what they get, Who are losing confidence with a single goal conceded or a dangerous chance, who panic in front of an open net. This is so UN Manchester United. We as fans will wait surely cause we have nothing to do but deep inside I am suffering.

 

[Mr Anderson]

Think we'll have to commit to a double signing of a Director of Football and new Manager sooner or later. Once we have some actual true long term thinking we'll be ok, it's whether Ed is willing to give up that role is the question.

We need something like that for sure. As you say though, will the DoF just be a fall-guy. Woodie will still be over him - thus still potentially scoffing at deals.

 

[RedSky]

We need something like that for sure. As you say though, will the DoF just be a fall-guy. Woodie will still be over him - thus still potentially scoffing at deals.

Well i'm hoping that the Director of Football would be employed with Woodies ideals and therefore both will agree on the direction the club will go. Then its a case of employing a Manager who is used to a Director of Football. That should be how the club is run from now on imo. If nothing else from Woodies perspective it gives him someone else to blame.

 

[roonster09]

Think we'll have to commit to a double signing of a Director of Football and new Manager sooner or later. Once we have some actual true long term thinking we'll be ok, it's whether Ed is willing to give up that role is the question.

Hopefully we approach DoF first and then hire manager who shares his vision or the direction DoF wants us to move in.

 

[AgentP]

Such a bizarre game. I don't think we can blame Jose for this one.

He set us up to attack and from the first whistle, we did exactly that. OT was booming for the first time in ages, it felt good to hear and we had them on the ropes for a long portion of the half.

Second half, we simply capitulated with individual errors and chaos. We fell apart and Spurs took their chances. Such a deflating and demoralising loss.

I thought Jose played a blinder last night, from the way he set us up to attack to his sportsmansip with Pochettino to the way he applauded the fans. Even the way he walked out of the interview, the media are scum and I don't mind him treating them with disdain.

However, he still seems to be a dead man walking. Our club is in shambles yet again and if we rip up the script now, we can call it another 3 yrs of rebuilding.

Its a horrible result but if Jose can get us to play this way on a regular basis, then it's a different story. But usually we only show up against the big teams(attitude and effort wise) and then revert back to a lazy style of play against other opponents.

 

[Josh 76]

Went to the game last night and thought we played really well in the first half. The two quick goals in the second half knocked our confidence, and it was always going to be a tough night from then on. No one in the crowd turned on the team or Mourhino, infact the atmosphere throughout the game was amazing. Luke Shaw was great by the way. I really think we should stick with Mourhino until the end of the season and get behind the team.

Just one more point.....Erikson .....what a player!

 

[groovyalbert]

Why is there no player rating option for Lindelof?

 

[Grande]

Such a bizarre game. I don't think we can blame Jose for this one.

He set us up to attack and from the first whistle, we did exactly that. OT was booming for the first time in ages, it felt good to hear and we had them on the ropes for a long portion of the half.

Second half, we simply capitulated with individual errors and chaos. We fell apart and Spurs took their chances. Such a deflating and demoralising loss.

I thought Jose played a blinder last night, from the way he set us up to attack to his sportsmansip with Pochettino to the way he applauded the fans. Even the way he walked out of the interview, the media are scum and I don't mind him treating them with disdain.

However, he still seems to be a dead man walking. Our club is in shambles yet again and if we rip up the script now, we can call it another 3 yrs of rebuilding.

What baffles me, is half the posters writing here as if this game was a confirmation of the Brighton game. It was the complete opposite!

It sounds as if some people already made their arguments, so they have to use them:

‘Mourinho is too cautious and doesn’t dare attack, let the fullbacks loose etc’ Brighton - yes! Tottenham - no, on the contrary, United with full backs we’re high up the field. They score two more because we go all in attacking.

‘There’s no attacking pattern’ brighton, yes, didn’t create a move the last 45. Tottenham - no, there were the whole variety of long passes behind the lines, knockdowns to teammates, the runs were there, one-two-threes, overlaps, collective high pressing.

‘The players are not in it, Pogba looks disinterested, there’s no fight, given up on the manager’ Brighton - yes, tame as a convent games night. Tottenham - madness. The intensity of the pressing, the speed on counters, it was too much for Tottenham. Even at 0-1, the respons was immediate, straight into attack, Lukaku almost scoring. Even at 0-2, after the initial shock, they clearly didn’t give up. Even at 0-3, they tried pushing up. What was of play was from stress, not from giving up.

I half expect someone to blame Andreas, Martial and Bailly for Tottenham’s goals.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Do a Liverpool/Keita and tie Alderweireld up for January.

Spurs won't sell mid-season. You had the chance this summer, but United refused to include Martial in the deal … and so not surprisingly Levy refused to sell Toby in return.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I do too. ’Slaphead’ ... might steal that one.

Please do

 

[#07]

 

[99withaflake]

Hope Pogba doesn’t feel too hard done by. He’s been shit for 2 games in a row and needs to raise his game significantly.

Some of our players didn’t deserve to lose that game, but Pogba certainly did.

 

[#07]

 

[el3mel]

We don't understand your peformance either.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Wenger....In?

 

[RedSky]

Hopefully we approach DoF first and then hire manager who shares his vision or the direction DoF wants use to move in.

Agreed. That's the ideal scenario.

 

[roonster09]

Agreed. That's the ideal scenario.

Who do you think is better suited for us?

 

[RedSky]

Who do you think is better suited for us?

That's a difficult question to answer. Depends on what the club want to achieve really, if we want a young squad then obviously Pochettino would be ideal, but i'd be surprised if we could get him. Leonardo Jardim is more realistic (AS Monaco). He's a Manager used to rebuilding sides too so it shouldn't take him too long to sort us out and inject some spring to our attack. The problem with Leonardo Jardim is that it might take him a little bit of time to sort us out initially.

He's also got the added bonus of knowing Ligue 1 (gold mine of players) and will know which players to go for to fix our squad.

 

[roonster09]

That's a difficult question to answer. Depends on what the club want to achieve really, if we want a young squad then obviously Pochettino would be ideal, but i'd be surprised if we could get him. Leonardo Jardim is more realistic (AS Monaco). He's a Manager used to rebuilding sides too so it shouldn't take him too long to sort us out and inject some spring to our attack. The problem with Leonardo Jardim is that it might take him a little bit of time to sort us out initially.

He's also got the added bonus of knowing Ligue 1 (gold mine of players) and will know which players to go for to fix our squad.

I didn't make it clear, I was asking about DoF.

I agree with your post anyways. Jardim looks good choice. Hopefully whoever is the next believes in attacking football and also plays high pressing game.

 

[RedSky]

I didn't make it clear, I was asking about DoF.

I agree with your post anyways. Jardim looks good choice. Hopefully whoever is the next believes in attacking football and also plays high pressing game.

Oh, I got no idea about DoF's, don't really pay attention to them. Van Der Saar is being mentioned a fair bit, not sure he's a good idea tbh as I don't think he's experienced enough despite knowing our club. I'd be going for someone with bags of experience to step in and immediately shake shit up.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

The truth is we didn’t play badly at all yesterday. In fact I liked the commitment, the play was good, chances created & the players definitely hadn’t given up on the manger. It just so happens Spurs were mote clinical than us.

It happens when 2 good teams play each other, small moments change results. If lukaku scores the open goal we win that.

We were an embarrassment against Brighton, but played well yesterday is the truth but that wouldn’t sell papers or give people the chance to kick Jose when we’re down so let’s ignore that.

 

[balaks]

What the hell sort of stats are those?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The truth is we didn’t play badly at all yesterday. In fact I liked the commitment, the play was good, chances created & the players definitely hadn’t given up on the manger. It just so happens Spurs were mote clinical than us.

It happens when 2 good teams play each other, small moments change results. If lukaku scores the open goal we win that.

We were an embarrassment against Brighton, but played well yesterday is the truth but that wouldn’t sell papers or give people the chance to kick Jose when we’re down so let’s ignore that.

Erm... have you seen our defence?

They already looked shaky in the first half... the idea that they would stand up well to a Spurs side going on the attack and trying to get back into the game can be easily disputed.

We played okay in the first half and created some half chances, but we were hardly great, and then in the second half we were just poor... so yeah I'd say we were bad overall.

The big difference for me is that Spurs looked organised and we didn't... at all.