[Litch]

Old saying but true...'goals change games'. It's nothing we don't know cause we have always had a forward that could make the difference...RVP scores that yesterday, Ibra scores that, Rooney scores that...sadly Kane scores that header and Rom wouldn't have. Same with the Brighton game.

 

[Murray3007]

Don't ignore his post match interview. He said he's had the team practicing this system for the whole week with Spurs in mind. And then look at the result of that hard work for the 2nd goal. He's basically becoming a clown.

took pep a whole season to get his system to work, a week on practicing a system is not a long time, he does need to pick one system and a settled team imo. its something he's never managed to do here tho.

 

[99withaflake]

What the feck is it then?

What is a quote? A quote is a quote.

 

[Bojan11]

What is a quote? A quote is a quote.

Quit backtracking now. Even Mourinho basically admitted he wanted him in 2015, but Chelsea weren’t willing to pay the dosh for him or Griezmann.

 

[Strachans Cigar]

Lukaku is not good enough really. He’s a lumbering hulk with little finesse & questionable shooting accuracy. A pity that the summer we signed him the only reputable & attainable strikers available were him and Morata. Mourinho can’t be blamed for that I suppose, they were the “best” available.

I suppose there is some potential with a quicker, cuter, trickier forward playing off Lukaku’s strength and Sanchez should be a reasonable fit in that regard but little sign of gelling between them as of yet...

The CB situation is strange. Jones & Rojo went through a previous period of being tighter than a nuns. Smalling has always had an error in him but Lindelof & Bailly are José signings supposedly to improve things back there? So if he isn’t happy with them, sorry but that is on him.

Tbf, Bailey is a good defender, just a little erratic. Lindelof may come good but looks nervous to me & if he can’t get over it he shouldn’t be playing for Manchester United.

Ironic that Luke Shaw seems to be coming good again at this time & notable that Mourinho was straight out to him at the end congratulating him on a good performance.

 

[Bestietom]

Yes we looked like we had improved in the first half hour, but only until Pochettino found us out. Then he out thought Mourinho. There will be many more games like this, if we don't replace him now. Everyone can see that we are a club in regression under him.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I would be okay with it if we kept playing attacking football and continued to lose games because of the poor quality of the defence on the ball and eventually Woodward just signs the players we need yo play that way. Most important thing is that we are playing that way.

 

[Fracture90]

One thing tho, iirc we started Jones and Smalling the last time we lost to City at Wembley I think? Thought it was quite clear back that CB consisting of them 2 isn't a good fit against Spurs.

 

[Roons111]

Something you're far to familiar with bud. You created the better opportunities? What a set piece. Mastermind Poch relies on Eriksen time and time again to score from set pieces. All you did was play long balls all game and managed to score a set piece goal which forced us to push forward. United dominated at least 70mins of the 90. And its not a 'trophy joke'. Its a fact. Enjoy your 'We finally beat United away' trophy for the season.

Eriksen hasn't scored a free kick in 3 years.

 

[edgar allan]

I can't help but be a tad disappointed with the team sheet last night.

Bailly and Lindelof had a nightmare match against Brighton but after last night's performance by Smalling & Jones then I think you could thrown a blanket over all of our centre backs and not be able to pick a good player out which brings me back to last night.

Is there an argument that Mourinho should have stuck by with Bailly and Lindelof again ? If we have no better options then supporting them and allowing them to play through their bad patches is sometimes what they need.

After watching our CBs against Brighton, Spurs would have torn them apart last night. Defence, midfield and attack all non functioning. We are an absolute mess.

 

[suhaylah]

Agree with all this and the scary part is: will a new manager make Lukaku score those chances? Will he make our centre backs world class? Sure we’ll have a go but we had a go tonight. At the end of the day is the quality there?

Bailly and Lindelof was supposed to be our first choice CB since they were bought by Mourinho. And none of them played yesterday. Lukaku also was Mourinho's choice. They all turned out to be sh.it. The manager has to take responsibilities for these players. A new manager will surely bring other players to the team.

 

[Bojan11]

Bailly and Lindelof was supposed to be our first choice CB since they were bought by Mourinho. And none of them played yesterday. Lukaku also was Mourinho's choice. They all turned out to be sh.it. The manager has to take responsibilities for these players.

Don’t tell that to @#07.

It’s all Woodwards fault as he forced all these players on poor old Mourinho.

 

[Beagle]

took pep a whole season to get his system to work, a week on practicing a system is not a long time, he does need to pick one system and a settled team imo. its something he's never managed to do here tho.

So you believe that if we have a set system, the minute we make any change to that we will turn to shit? Is this acceptable of professionals?

He has had years to identify a system that he prefers, millions to bring in players that will work in that system and yet his defender is playing offside when he has a teammate 20 yards behind him, his team can hardly create chances on a consistent basis and when they do his big #9 usually fecks it up, his reaction to going behind is to hoof it to Fellaini and his team's overall approach to general play is quite shit.

You say it took Pep a year to settle on his system (I'll take your word for it since I've not seen their games), surely you must also realise Jose has had quite a lot of time here as well? Is there a clearly discernible system in which United are playing? I'm no expert but this team looks like they're doing random stuff hoping something will work.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I really don't think we played THAT well in the first half.

Yeah we ran around a bit harder, but we weren't exactly battering Tottenham, and our best chance came because Danny Rose gave us the ball.... other then that we created some half chances and thats about it... and Spurs themselves could have had a penalty and created a fairly decent half chance themselves.

Ultimately, we still looked shakey at the back and not really orgnaised at all... so yes we fell apart after they scored, but the fact that they did score wasn't that surprising at all.

 

[WR10]

i don't think lukaku is good enough to lead the line. Look at all the other teams aguero takes that chance, kane takes that chance, firmino takes that. In my opinion rashford takes that chance and then it's a completely different ball game

Lukaku at some later in form stage of last season would have taken it too. He scored goals that were barely half chances last season when he had gotten going. I’m not defending his form of now, we all know he’s still rusty but it’s the worst when people on here have gold fish memory. He went through a rough patch last season where he looked way off the mark but he put his head down and came forward with a sustained run of games where he was up there as one of the best strikers in the league. He’s not a player you worry about like you would Martial.

 

[Berba's_Flick]

There are plenty of things about the second half of this game that reminds me of Jose's 15/16 season:

1) Defense conceding usually high number of goals. Jose takes out Lindelof for a bad performance last game, then subs him on for Jones due to the latter too performing badly. Very reminiscent of what he did with those Chelsea players.

2) Unmotivated players like Pogba resemble Hazard downing tools.

3) Lukaku and the attack forgetting how to score.

4) Large number of backpasses suggest the players don't believe in what he's instructing them.

5) Amidst all the carnage, a few "loyal warriors" still putting in top performances. Was Willian at Chelsea, here surprisingly it is Luke Shaw of all people.

6) The cracks in the 15/16 season started with a draw against Swansea at home and then barely edging WBA 3-2. The defeats for Chelsea followed after. Similar to that Chelsea-WBA game, we began with a shaky performance just edging Leicester and then it's been downhill since.

7) Strife between the board/owners and Jose over transfers and a poor preseason.

There are too many uncomfortable similarities to his last Chelsea season.

I think Jones was taken out because of an injury. Also Jose came out fighting and with his chest puffed out in the post match interview. Nothing like the Chelsea stint. Not to say everything is hunky dory and you still be right, but imo I think a lot of us are letting the press dictate our thoughts.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

So you believe that if we have a set system, the minute we make any change to that we will turn to shit? Is this acceptable of professionals?

He has had years to identify a system that he prefers, millions to bring in players that will work in that system and yet his defender is playing offside when he has a teammate 20 yards behind him, his team can hardly create chances on a consistent basis and when they do his big #9 usually fecks it up, his reaction to going behind is to hoof it to Fellaini and his team's overall approach to general play is quite shit.

You say it took Pep a year to settle on his system (I'll take your word for it since I've not seen their games), surely you must also realise Jose has had quite a lot of time here as well? Is there a clearly discernible system in which United are playing? I'm no expert but this team looks like they're doing random stuff hoping something will work.

It did take Pep a season to get things up and running, but he also got rid of the players he didn't want and replaced them with ones he did. We are hanging onto ours like they are loved family heirlooms. Also he did have a system. Has it really taken Jose this long to decide he has one as well?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Lukaku at some later in form stage of last season would have taken it too. He scored goals that were barely half chances last season when he had gotten going. I’m not defending his form of now, we all know he’s still rusty but it’s the worst when people on here have gold fish memory. He went through a rough patch last season where he looked way off the mark but he put his head down and came forward with a sustained run of games where he was up there as one of the best strikers in the league. He’s not a player you worry about like you would Martial.

He likely will hit form, but he appears to be our only source of goals and that is an even bigger worry.

 

[Litch]

Actually without the emotion of losing, it's the first time for me I saw Jose as a Utd manager. He showed he wasn't a dinosaur and that team set up was so creative that know feck predicted it. People thought it was defensive until they set up and Spurs looked ordinary. The problem is you can't legislate for players letting you down as a manager even though he gave them a platform to win. I don't care who the manager was, Jones, Smalling still make those defensive errors yesterday. Rom still misses that chance.

What Jose said in the presser was absolutely right. What do you want, the win or the style of play? When people questioned the need for another CB, well we know he was right there too.

 

[Kapardin]

Lukaku at some later in form stage of last season would have taken it too. He scored goals that were barely half chances last season when he had gotten going. I’m not defending his form of now, we all know he’s still rusty but it’s the worst when people on here have gold fish memory. He went through a rough patch last season where he looked way off the mark but he put his head down and came forward with a sustained run of games where he was up there as one of the best strikers in the league. He’s not a player you worry about like you would Martial.

Yes, but brilliant form in patches is not good enough for a top club. The expectation was that he would push on from that purple patch and remain consistent throughout the season, and so far it hasn't happened. Him and De Gea are at the moment the least of our problems, but the doubts persist over him still.

 

[Canagel]

So you believe that if we have a set system, the minute we make any change to that we will turn to shit? Is this acceptable of professionals?

He has had years to identify a system that he prefers, millions to bring in players that will work in that system and yet his defender is playing offside when he has a teammate 20 yards behind him, his team can hardly create chances on a consistent basis and when they do his big #9 usually fecks it up, his reaction to going behind is to hoof it to Fellaini and his team's overall approach to general play is quite shit.

You say it took Pep a year to settle on his system (I'll take your word for it since I've not seen their games), surely you must also realise Jose has had quite a lot of time here as well? Is there a clearly discernible system in which United are playing? I'm no expert but this team looks like they're doing random stuff hoping something will work.

This pretty much sums everything up. The conditions are there to fight for the PL. There's been enough time and money to fix things. Just the fact that we choose the lazy option of hoofing to Fellaini at the first sign of trouble says it all. Teams actually know what is coming and can prepare for it. Why not try two up top once in a while? Who is forcing him to play one way and be so rigid? Its clear Lukaku can't be relied on to be the main source of goals. Who knows perhaps another manager wouldn't have bought him and maybe built the team around Martial and Rashford whilst spending the money on other areas of the team? We don't attack well and create chances like a Pep or Klopp team nor do we defend well like a Simeone team. I don't know what we are after 2 years of Mourinho and 400 million pounds. But apparently our failure to get him another CB after ruining the previous two he bought is the reason we aren't clicking.

 

[Litch]

I think Jones was taken out because of an injury. Also Jose came out fighting and with his chest puffed out in the post match interview. Nothing like the Chelsea stint. Not to say everything is hunky dory and you still be right, but imo I think a lot of us are letting the press dictate our thoughts.

Absolutely right. Ive decided especially this season to free myself from that shit and make my own informed choice about this club as I seem to be able to do a lot better as a 10 year old child who never read a newspaper or the internet than as a 50 year on adult being spoon fed by their lies and bullshit.

 

[#07]

Don’t tell that to @#07.

It’s all Woodwards fault as he forced all these players on poor old Mourinho.

Okay I'll bite. How do you know that Jose is solely responsible for signing these players?

Numerous sources have claimed that even with the big ticket signings, like Pogba, the deals were in the making long before he was offered the job. In many ways it's easier to look at our signings as products of our relationships with agents. Mendes under Van Gaal. Raiola under Mourinho.

I'm not saying Mourinho wasn't consulted on these players, I'm not saying he had no knowledge that they were coming in, but, for example, McGarry and Castles on the Transfer Window podcast have said Lindelof was not Mourinho's first choice but he was told that the club wouldn't go for a more expensive option at the time.

Jose clearly has a responsibility to coach these players once they arrive at United but saying Mou signed X and so should do better is a bit simplistic.

 

[Bojan11]

Okay I'll bite. How do you know that Jose is solely responsible for signing these players?

Numerous sources have claimed that even with the big ticket signings, like Pogba, the deals were in the making long before he was offered the job. In many ways it's easier to look at our signings as products of our relationships with agents. Mendes under Van Gaal. Raiola under Mourinho.

I'm not saying Mourinho wasn't consulted on these players, I'm not saying he had no knowledge that they were coming in, but, for example, McGarry and Castles on the Transfer Window podcast have said Lindelof was not Mourinho's first choice but he was told that the club wouldn't go for a more expensive option at the time.

Jose clearly has a responsibility to coach these players once they arrive at United but saying Mou signed X and so should do better is a bit simplistic.

You been listening to too many dumb podcasts.

Mourinho wanted Pogba at Chelsea along with Griezmann. Hence the links for Griezmann last year before he decided to mess us around.

You do realise there was a certain defender that Leicester signed for £16m from Hull that was a way cheaper option than Lindelof. Even Rudiger cost cheaper. Then you have Davidson Sanchez who is better and cheaper. De Vrij was in the last year of his contract and cheaper. Hell Bonucci was sold for £30m. So quit making crap excuses that Mourinho needed to spend £60m to finally get a decent defender. We were scouting Lindelof for months.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I really don't think we played THAT well in the first half.

Yeah we ran around a bit harder, but we weren't exactly battering Tottenham, and our best chance came because Danny Rose gave us the ball.... other then that we created some half chances and thats about it... and Spurs themselves could have had a penalty and created a fairly decent half chance themselves.

Ultimately, we still looked shakey at the back and not really orgnaised at all... so yes we fell apart after they scored, but the fact that they did score wasn't that surprising at all.

We didn't.

Reading some posts on here and without watching, you'd think we battered them like Barcelona did to Arsenal at the Emirates in 2010.

 

[#07]

You been listening to too many dumb podcasts.

Mourinho wanted Pogba at Chelsea along with Griezmann. Hence the links for Griezmann last year before he decided to mess us around.

You do realise there was a certain defender that Leicester signed for £16m from Hull that was a way cheaper option than Lindelof. Even Rudiger cost cheaper. Then you have Davidson Sanchez who is better and cheaper. De Vrij was in the last year of his contract and cheaper. Hell Bonucci was sold for £30m. So quit making crap excuses that Mourinho needed to spend £60m to finally get a decent defender. We were scouting Lindelof for months.

Okay all of that assumed that what we saw reported in the media after the transfer window, which is the board vetoes signings when it doesn't want them, was false.

Basically I agree with what Howson said last night:



Clearly you know better so let's draw a line under it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You're tired of Mourinho so you want to replace him with someone who had recently had a horror show in the league and whose relationship with his players broke down so much in his third season that he left the club?

Then again I guess he did develop youngsters like Varane and break scoring records at Real Madrid. Oh no wait sorry that was Mourinho.

Yeah his relationship with the players was so broken he won 3 CLs on the bounce. If his league campaign was a horror show what was Mourinho's in 15/16? And did that deter you from wanting him at the club? Or did Mourinho leaving nearly every job in his 3rd year?

Right so Mourinho sort of developed one player. That's incredible I guess. No manager has ever done that.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He wanted Pogba at Chelsea.

He wanted Pogba and Griezmann during the 15/16 transfer window, which is why he had a meltdown.

I’m sure @duffer can vouch for that. Pogba was heavilly linked, but Chelsea weren’t prepared to pay.

Typical excuses.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What the feck is it then? Are you stupid or something?

So a post from some guy name after ice cream is evidence?

Here’s a quote from Mourinho himself in 2015



But you can stick to your made up theory that Mourinho didn’t want Pogba.

No, if he's saying it wasn't a Mourinho signing then it wasn't a Mourinho signing. I think we should take his word for it.

 

[Tincanalley]

Luke Shaw was brilliant Fred was good everybody else was shit. I dont blame Mourinho i blame slaphead for lack of transfers.

I do too. ’Slaphead’ ... might steal that one.

 

[red4ever 79]

guys we lost 3-0 at home. take a deep breathe and let that sink in. Unacceptable

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

We really were better than the score line suggested.

So so so very fragile. But we were decent everywhere apart from centrally in our own third.

Can't help but feel a decent centre back would have helped to calm the younger defenders. Why were we not in for one?............

 

[Tincanalley]

Spurs are a better team than us with a lot of players better than ours, we competed with them well for large parts of the game and should have been ahead at halftime.

The result was probably a little harsh on us but the top teams are clinical.

If we'd shown the energy and application of tonight last week we beat Brighton, and tbf that should be the minimum. If we bring that every week we'll be OK

Spurs are a proper side, but they're the result of several years of building

Top post. Cool, calm, and bullseye accurate.

 

[mitchmouse]

If he'd slagged off their effort, everyone would moan he was throwing the players under the bus.

but he could say we didn't play well and the mistakes were not what you'd expect from PL defenders and that the passing wasn't as good as theirs

 

[mitchmouse]

Obertan, Bebe, Buttner, etc.

Managers buy flops all the time, thing is Fergie had a world class 11 to rely on if things went sour with transfers.

you can add a few duff goalkeepers to that list!

 

[Tincanalley]

Thing is, I fear Woodward is too arrogant to admit his mistake and would rather sack Jose than admit he fecked up.

The distant ones in the Big Glass House might sack Jose. Will they support the new guy or just indulge Woody’s muppetry?
The team played well today; obviously didn’t take chances. Loved the attitude. Kudos to Lingard, Shaw, and decent enough by most of the rest. I thought Pogba tried. Agree though that DDG is going through a dip in form, showed in his distribution for instance. I think we can build on this performance. We go again.

 

[blue blue]

Absolutely right. Ive decided especially this season to free myself from that shit and make my own informed choice about this club as I seem to be able to do a lot better as a 10 year old child who never read a newspaper or the internet than as a 50 year on adult being spoon fed by their lies and bullshit.

I'll stand corrected at the end of the season but I see real similarities with what Jose did at Chelsea.

Good players becoming bad players. Loss of confidence. No set pattern of play. Players being thrown out of the team.

How on earth can Sanchez tear it up at Arsenal and be nothing at Utd? How can Pogba play like that at the world cup but be a shadow of that player for Utd? What did he really do last night? I wouldn't throw Lukaku under the same bus just yet but there are signs.

While Jones and Smalling may not be the best centre halves in the PL they are better than last night. This is a team with similar personnel to the beginning of last season that has regressed.

Ignore those signs at your peril.

 

[RedSky]

In the previous match some people disputed the stats from our midfield, where we barely won a tackle or intercepted the ball.

We had the same again this time from our first choice expensive CMs.

1 tackle 1 interception from Fred, 1 tackle alone from Pogba, 1 tackle alone from Matic and 1 interception alone from Lingard playing behind Lukaku

Meanwhile Spurs had :

Alli - 5 tackles, 4 interceptions

Dembele - 4 tackles, 4 interceptions

Dier - 2 tackles, 1 interception

Eriksen (in the hole behind the 2 forwards) - 1 tackle, 1 interception


Our anemic midfield continues to put in less work when we are without the ball than is required and what our opponents are putting in. And this time it isnt a small team, its Spurs. Showing that a good team can also have hard working midfielders who are also quality on the ball.

Yep, I mentioned this last week and brought it up again. We had more tackles in the 1st half than we did in the 2nd. We pressed well in the first half but it wasn't all that effective at winning back the wall (we did pressure Rose into that mistake which Lukaku missed). Then we dropped off in the second half.

Our midfield balance imo doesn't work right now. A team can show up and as long as they work hard (precisely what the Brighton players were saying) then they'll out run and out fight us.

 

[Tincanalley]

Woodward‘s starry-eyed love for Bale is costing us as is his obsession for Varane.

It’s this simple. Glaringly obvious.
No manager can solve such a problem.

 

[roonster09]

What the feck is it then? Are you stupid or something?

So a post from some guy name after ice cream is evidence?

Here’s a quote from Mourinho himself in 2015

But you can stick to your made up theory that Mourinho didn’t want Pogba.

Yeah Jose wanted Pogba when he was at Chelsea, funny how Jose fans somehow turned this in to "Jose never wanted Pogba". There are interviews from many players who said Jose is the reason they signed or articles by Duncan saying so and so players are top priority (posted at least 6 months before player was signed).

Now somehow club is signing players without Jose requesting them.