[amolbhatia50k]

They were not carrying out LVG's wishes. When they come under pressure they are resorting to what they know and that is the backward, sideway passing of last season. It is almost like a comfort blanket to them. If they won't change, then it may take a couple of summers to bring in players who will play the way he wants.

Absolutely. While I have confidence in LVG to make us a proper team again, there's probably a limit to how much he can improve the awesome foursome of Cleverley, fletcher, young and Valencia. If he does then great. If he can't, then hopefully we replace them quickly. Were probably trying to right now.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Have people accepted that maybe Moyes was right, and that we need some changes? We have a squad that's geared towards playing fergie football, wingers and crosses. We need to rebuild the squad and it will involve being patient with whatever manager we have. We have LVG for 3 years to build a good squad and take us out of SAF era, I hope we and the board have the patience to let him do so. I think Moyes could have done so, but it's gone now so lets move on, I really believe LVG will sort this out but it won't be this transfer window

 

[Momochiru]

Unbelievable the negativity here. I thought we showed some signs of improvement from the Swansea game. It's going to take time, but LVG is quick to address the problems. It will take time, but we will get there.

 

[Dobba]

Isn't that a slight problem with our game and commentators that they think everyone has to be built like a brick shithouse. It's no wonder our national side is so bad when they are proud that a big part of it is big cloggers kicking hell out of any skillful players.

On the plus side, at least Danny Mills isn't in any position of influence on the future of English football.

Oh.

 

[vibe]

Unbelievable the negativity here.

It's not negativity, it's objectivity. It'd be a reason to worry if we play like utter shite and say everything's alright.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Agreed, their idea of a good team would include Cattermole and Barton in midfield. Danny Mills had nothing but praise for the cnut Cattermole all afternoon.

We allowed Cattermole to have a good game by spending too much time on the ball, played right into his style of football.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

When the backbone of the 3-4-1-2, the two wingbacks and the two central midfielders, are shockingly awful you can't expect much at this level. Funny thing is we could have taken all three points if we had defended better in that corner.

After all Sunderland didn't create any big chances either which is the only positive thing from today's performance, considering our injury list and the bad individual performances from so many players.

Sunderland are a team who like to hit on the counter and we didn't allow that to happen. Jones did very well in the central CB role and Blackett showed some good stuff again. Mata covered a lot of areas, he tried to influence the game but whenever he got the ball his options were limited. RvP and Rooney worked hard, they were continuously making moves in and out of the box, but things will always be hard when your outnumbered 2vs4 in every occasion. The only time Valencia moved up and made a decent pass we scored.

As for our main problem, it was the same last season and it's described in five words: Too slow on the ball. Every time a United player, minus Mata, had the ball he always searched for a more safe pass to the feet of a teammate rather than a forward pass into space.

Hopefully we'll see improvement with Di Maria, that was the only thing i kept thinking while watching Young trying to make himself useful in the final third. With this formation and with our current set of CM (only Herrera can help the attack) the front three need support from the wingbacks in the attacking plays. When Shaw returns we might switch to 4-3-3, who knows.

 

[Offside]

The issue was that the wide players were poor. Valencia had a solid game but does not offer enough quality, Young was awful. Hopefully Shaw and Di Maria in wide positions will help that a lot.

The midfield was 2 average players, there is no way of getting around that. Carrick and Herrera would offer more quality with the ball and more direction to the strikers.

Mata was decent, RVP lacked match fitness but hopefully he will start firing soon.

We did look like we are improving towards what Van Gaal wants in spells.

It doesn't help with Rojo, Evans, Rafael, Herrea, Shaw, Carrick, di Maria (first team players..or about to be) all not playing.

These players will improve us a lot when they come back/in.

So all in all, can't be too upset about it..very early days. We need to start getting points on the board soon though which I am confident we will starting with a win against Burnley.

 

[PedroMendez]

expectations are plummeting in record speed. A dull draw against Sunderland and half the posters are talking about positives things. A draw against Burnley next week wouldnt be that bad, right?

 

[Red_Aaron]

after a nervy start I thought we held the formation well. I thought Jones played well when he replaced Smalling in the centre, liked the look of Blackett defensively though he did hoof it a few times for no apparent reason

confidence to play forward passes is clearly lacking but part of that remains our lack of movement in the final third which is an issue that's been prevalent for a few years now. Mata has been getting stick for not producing but whenever he's on the ball all he has to aim at is static players, heavily marked, wanting it to feet, its no wonder he's struggling to create. Welbeck is the only player who tried to make forward runs and he might be off.

 

[Erebus]

So, when we sack/sell/get rid of all the players called for disposing of in this thread - with all our current injuries could someone enlighten me just who the hell is going to take the field? Yes there are problems - we all knew that before the season started, but it's two games into the season and most of the first choice players/new signings are injured or not available. Does anyone seriously believe that team would have been selected if all the squad were available? Patience friends, patience.

 

[Dylan94]

expectations are plummeting in record speed. A dull draw against Sunderland and half the posters are talking about positives things. A draw against Burnley next week wouldnt be that bad, right?

I know right? There's no debate to be had here. Right now we should be sitting at the top of the table with 6 points from 6 and instead we are 13th and have 1.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Didnt someone make one of those awful awful threads about how 'the next 5 fixtures' or in this case the first 5 should be a dead cert 15 points? They never ever ever end well yet people still make them!

 

[Trizy]

Interesting views..

 

[PedroMendez]

I know right? There's no debate to be had here. Right now we should be sitting at the top of the table with 6 points from 6 and instead we are 13th and have 1.

yes, of course. But its not only about the result, but about the performance itself. Swansea and Sunderland are average teams. Yes, many players are injured, but that shouldnt be an excuse against these teams; United still had the better players. Its just not a good sign if you look on par with a team, that is going to fight relegation.

 

[Amir]

Absolutely. While I have confidence in LVG to make us a proper team again, there's probably a limit to how much he can improve the awesome foursome of Cleverley, fletcher, young and Valencia. If he does then great. If he can't, then hopefully we replace them quickly. Were probably trying to right now.

To be fair, without al the injuries, most of those players wouldn't even get a sniff.

 

[Dylan94]

yes, of course. But its not only about the result, but about the performance itself. Swansea and Sunderland are average teams. Yes, many players are injured, but that shouldnt be an excuse against these teams; United still had the better players. Its just not a good sign if you look on par with a team, that is going to fight relegation.

I completely agree.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Why bring up Vidal though, he could have said any player? If was saying someone, until all this speculation, Vidal wouldn't come into my mind.

I dont want to get my hopes up so I won't be disappointed when we dont get him.

 

[pascell]

A bit knee jerk, that comment. The team doesn't lack spine, it's just injured. Our best CM in pre-season - injured. Our best CB - injured. Our most inspiring young signing - injured. Our veteran CM - injured. Our best striker - off fitness. Di Maria's going to make a hell load of a difference. I expect if we see all of Herrera, Shaw, Carrick and Evans on the pitch, a front line of van Persie, Di Maria, Mata and Rooney will demolish defences.

Shouldn't a front 3 of Mata, Rooney and van Persie demolish a CB pairing of 2 former United defenders that weren't good enough for us? Rooney and van Persie are on £500,000 a week between them and today they contributed as much as a pair of pissed up overweight Sunday league players would have! Even with Di Maria today we wouldn't have done any better because the team
had too many passengers!

 

[surf]

The good news is that we'll be much better once the new and injured players are ready.
The bad news is that we'll be a lot of points behind the top 4 by then.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Agreed. The whole commentary team was bad, but Mills was about as ABU as it gets. Not to mention the analysis of a player like Di Maria was a joke. Saying he wouldn't fit into the team etc. At one point he said he lacked pace. He also said Herrera wasn't premier league standard, based on one game (a game in which he came off injured). He's as ignorant as they come.

The wankers at half time on NBC over here were appalling, as well. The same level of ignorance. It's like they only ever watch the premier league and their knowledge of players beyond the UK borders is close to non existent.

Danny made me wanna shoot the tv when he talked negatively about Di maria and pace.

 

[golazo]

Just saw the Van Gaal quotes regarding "Vidal or Messi". I know it's tongue in cheek, but it would be fecking hilarious if we sign Messi and leave central midfield as is.

Rafael----Jones----Rojo----Shaw
---------Rooney--Herrera--------
---------------Mata----------------
Messi--------RVP------------Di Maria

now that would be something to see!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Danny Mills claiming center backs in a 3 man defence had to play very wide showed the tactical poverty many English football people have.

 

[Haddock]

Too much negativity in the caf. The media will always look to knock Man united down, I thought the result was ok. Not ideal but it happens. Our midfield and defence have been laid waste thanks to injuries. Carrick, Herrera ,Rafael,Shaw,Evans,Fellaini,Lingard and a half fit RVP. The players who are playing are the deadwood - Valencia , Young and Cleverly - so it's no surprise its been this bad.

I think by the time we face Chelsea (our first big team this season) we should be fine and functional.

 

[YzWayne]

After the match yesterday, I was thinking why some players look total shite and could not produce any results against Sunderland.

1) I believe with this new system of 3-5-2, LVG has mentioned he needs the correct player to suit to the position. I believe Young, Cleveley and Fletcher are no where near the system. With 3-5-2, the full backs needs to be high up and not forming a line with the 3 centre-backs.

2) In the first half we saw how sunderland push into our half so easy, with our fullbacks so deep into our own half, it become 5-3-2 instead. This in-turn made our 3 centre backs having to soak up with the pressure by playing in our own half.

3) No commanders in our defense. No one is actually taking charge to organize the defense at all, at times we look all out of positions.

4) When attacking, Fletcher and Cleverley can't pick out any forward passes, they spray the ball wide to Valencia and Young. And all of us know none of these two actually beats their opponent at the wings. The crosses were under-par and useless.

5) We even see Mata dropping so deep to perform what both the CM can't, linking up play.

6) I am not genius compared to LVG but one has to wonder why put Januzaj on instead of kagawa. As much as Kagawa don't suit playing at CM, i have doubts on Cleverley, Januzaj or even Rooney doing a better job there.


With the points given above, i only can conclude that LVG has not gotten the players he wanted. Either they are out injured, or they have not turn United as of now.

The inclusion of Di Maria makes it even more complicated if we are sticking with 3-5-2. Only the arrival of a CM/DM will actually make the formation more productive IMO.

 

[Sauxees Moi Hui]

Fletcher and Cleverley were our only available CMs, and Fletcher did not have the stamina to last the full 90. Under those circumstances, I'm happy with a point away. I thought we were going to lose this one before the match began, to be honest.

 

[Xaviesta]

Anyone think we defended better after Smalling left? But holy shit we cant dictate tempo in midfield for shit.. Romance aside Fletch and Cleverley need to be movies elsewhere..

Your last sentence is bang on.

 

[Xaviesta]

Interesting views..

I know for some, ferguson is untouchable and beyond criticism, but many non United fans would agree with what this Geordie is saying. It's not the ABU thing coming out when people criticise the team Fergie left behind. The midfield was poor, wide players poor, the likes of Smalling and Jones I still have question marks.

 

[Sarni]

Our supposed easy start of season will probably end up with us languishing between 10th and 15th after 5 games...

 

[yamo123x]

Indeed. I think it's best we have these type of performances now. Rather have them now than in September/October when we can't do anything to resolve them. The start of the season is a wash out, i'm not really expecting much because we need to give LvG, the squad and his signings time to gell.

si

Had the signings been made earlier they would have had more time to gel. The team should have been in place before the first league game. Every point counts and already we are facing an uphill task- in my opinion this has been poorly planned by the club as well as LVG's arrogance not to dip in the market earlier feeling he could turn it around by a simple change of formation.

Midfield is the major issue we need quality in there not fletcher or cleverly.

 

[dev1l]

New manager,new system ..it ll take some time. It seems that some ppl here believe that all you need is to bring in a 50m a and just plug him and good results will follow.
Well, sorry chaps, but in the real world, things may work out differently.
as lvg said it i ll take at least 3 month for the team to settle down.

 

[dev1l]

si

Had the signings been made earlier they would have had more time to gel. The team should have been in place before the first league game. Every point counts and already we are facing an uphill task- in my opinion this has been poorly planned by the club as well as LVG's arrogance not to dip in the market earlier feeling he could turn it around by a simple change of formation.

Midfield is the major issue we need quality in there not fletcher or cleverly.

"LVG arrogance".....wtf are you about. As a good manager, he said he wanted to take stock of the situation before making the changes.

 

[The Man Himself]

I know for some, ferguson is untouchable and beyond criticism, but many non United fans would agree with what this Geordie is saying. It's not the ABU thing coming out when people criticise the team Fergie left behind. The midfield was poor, wide players poor, the likes of Smalling and Jones I still have question marks.

The same players won titles under Fergie and some won multiple times. So either players have lost it psychologically after last season or Fergie could make them play 100%+ levels to get more out of them than they are capable of. Even if latter is true, then it is that man's genius and not a fault. Why will he spend unnecessarily when he could make things work with a set of players? If the managers after him can't get the same out of same group then they need to get players who will work for them. It is not Fergie's fault that the same group which won title at canter, exploded so much after him.

 

[Striker10]

Sir Alex could get the best out of those players and he left us as champions. It was our inactivity last season that added to the players nerves. I see no reason for us not to play more offensively against Swansea at home and Sunderland away. The players actually moved about in pre season and have gone timid again. That's unacceptable.

Someone really needs to get it through to them that they're at United for a reason. You can beat these teams. Attack them. feck sake even if you let in 5, you have the quality up top to score 10. Watching the second half was pitiful. We can make 3 passes from our box to the final third and then 25 touchs passing sideways with the final one going back to De Gea. Some of these players are mindfecked and LVG and Giggs need to take them aside and tell them we can beat these teams. You play for us because you were good enough once.

Stop being so fecking timid and frightened of a challenge and play the game like you're playing for your life. You have nothing to lose, you bunch of pussies. But the fear is that we get punished every time. Swansea had two chances and took them. What the players should know is if we put some effort into it, we would have created a lot more chances then we did. Same against Sunderland.

I'm sick of our players making these teams look like they're the best defense in the world. Note to players: It's because you're not making runs you fecking idiots....

 

[red_7]

couldn't dominate a game once again, Sunderland with more shots as well. A fair result and that's a real concern. We're playing like a midtable club. Our movement is slow and we're not creating enough chances

only positive: Tyler Blackett, he could develop into something really good. Welbeck showed why he shouldn't be sold (apart from being Manchester born and red through and through), he has pace what we really lack up front at times.

 

[red_7]

Young back to his best , unfortunately the pre season and goals against fecking Glaxay saved his United career. I'm sorry for Fletch, he is a good guy and I really wish he could return somewhere near his best but yesterday showed he is a liability

 

[manichester]

LVG has shown respect to the players giving everyone an opportunity, plus signs are Blackett and Keane. The ones who have not taken their chance have no complaints and LVG can now be the tough guy and remove the average and poor performers.

 

[Dargonk]

Our supposed easy start of season will probably end up with us languishing between 10th and 15th after 5 games...

That is the saddest part. We looked geared up to have a really good start to the season with an easy lead in, yet come the time we actually hit our tough set of fixtures we are already playing catch up and look like also rans again

 

[Sarni]

That is the saddest part. We looked geared up to have a really good start to the season with an easy lead in, yet come the time we actually hit our tough set of fixtures we are already playing catch up and look like also rans again

To gain 1 point versus Swansea and Sunderland is... I don't have words.

 

[::sonny::]

Ratings

De Gea 6
Jones 6.5
Smalling 6
Blackett 6.5

Fletcher 4
Cleverley 5
Valencia 5.5
Young 3.5

Mata 5.5
Rooney 4.5
Van Persie 5

Keane 5.5
Januzaj 5.5
Welbeck 5.5