[Agent Red]

Don't get me wrong, I agree that we need fixing, but we are nowhere near as bad as some on here would want you to believe. We had virtually half a team missing today, not only that but the the teams injuries are in the worst possible areas.
We need fixing, of that there is no doubt, however today's performance doesn't give a real picture of where we are.

I do get what you're saying, I think however the injury excuse has been a bit of a plaster as well. Sure we're leaky at the back and passive in midfield, but that's only partly injuries. The rest is the lack of squad depth and quality in the first XI where the alarm bells have been ringing for a few seasons but we haven't addressed it. Jones for example has stood out in the past two games, yet comparing him to defenders of the past, those sort of displays should be par for the course not outstanding.

Up front and on the wings I don't think we can reference injuries at all really. We've had top quality players available for most of last season and both games so far this season. The issues there are a mix of form/tactics/lack of pace, in addition to the fact that some of our first XI players are just not at the level United should demand (Young, Valencia).

 

[Sunny Jim]

Hopefully this expedites a CM transfer.

i sometimes wish we would lose, as a loss -i hope- sparks a reaction from the club.

short term loss, long term gain.

 

[Sunny Jim]

I'm kinda happy it finished in a draw. Seriously expected a defeat

same here

 

[bosnian_red]

i sometimes wish we would lose, as a loss -i hope- sparks a reaction from the club.

short term loss, long term gain.

Things really started moving for Rojo and then Di Maria once we lost to Swansea, time for Vidal after a draw to Sunderland then?

 

[roseguy64]

Things really started moving for Rojo and then Di Maria once we lost to Swansea, time for Vidal after a draw to Sunderland then?

The Rojo transfer was already advanced before the Swansea game. Losses just hurt us. Won't have us moving anything faster.

 

[Number7]

The only thing that has cheered me up somewhat today, was that LVG acknowledged the problems were that our attacking passes were slow and laboured. Such a relief after enduring a season of 'we played well' from Moyes. LVG is exactly the right man for this job, but it's going to take a lot of work, hopefully starting with a complete clear out over the next week. If pre seasons friendlies aren't a good judge of a players capabilities, then our highly winnable opening 2 games of the season must surely have provided him with some clear answers. Time to shift the shit LVG, starting with Young and Valencia.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

While we've had a terrible start to the season, I have immense trust in van Gaal. The same couldn't be said last year with Moyes, who was an unproven variable at the top level. Van Gaal needs time and the right players to get us where we need to go.

 

[Americano]

The time has come for a serious recalibration of expectations. And maybe even a shift in goals to more medium term, youth development approach.

 

[TwoSheds]

Plus sides:

• Phil Jones was immense, especially after moving to the centre of the back 3. Really allows him to show his abilities to the fullest that position IMO.
• Blackett did very well.
• Cleverley looked much improved. As long as he keeps his tempo high he's a decent player.
• Van Persie is back and did OK.
• Valencia was generally pretty solid and composed and put in a super cross for the goal.
• Rooney and Young continued their reasonable form.

Down sides:

• Fletcher was shocking.
• Mata contributed little again aside from the goal.
• Januzaj looked like an immature kid playing centre mid who's never played centre mid before.
• Young still hasn't realised he needs to try and stay on his feet after the rep he's gained.
• Smalling was poor and is now injured. In contrast to Jones, shouldn't play at the centre of the back 3 as his ability on the ball is not good enough there.

Biggest positive I suppose is that we should have one or two reinforcements before the next game.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

I would be interested to know what he makes of Young. In pre-season he seemed more positive, now he has just reverted to last season's form. Doesn't really help the guys at the back and does little for the attack. I was hoping he would offer more.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Plus sides:

• Phil Jones was immense, especially after moving to the centre of the back 3. Really allows him to show his abilities to the fullest that position IMO.
• Blackett did very well.
• Cleverley looked much improved. As long as he keeps his tempo high he's a decent player.
• Van Persie is back and did OK.
• Valencia was generally pretty solid and composed and put in a super cross for the goal.
• Rooney and Young continued their reasonable form.

Down sides:

• Fletcher was shocking.
• Mata contributed little again aside from the goal.
• Januzaj looked like an immature kid playing centre mid who's never played centre mid before.
• Young still hasn't realised he needs to try and stay on his feet after the rep he's gained.
• Smalling was poor and is now injured. In contrast to Jones, shouldn't play at the centre of the back 3 as his ability on the ball is not good enough there.

Biggest positive I suppose is that we should have one or two reinforcements before the next game.

I would disagree with the bits in bold. But I am sure there are others that may side with you.

I thought Cleverley made lots of wasterful passes and did little to attempt to attack. We needed a goal and he was continuously moving sideways or playing to the back four. We didn't need keep ball.

I thought Rooney and Young were very ineffective. As I mentioned in another post Young has gone back to last season's form, whereas in pre-season he looked as though he was out to impress and was a bit of an attacking threat.

As for Mata, he probably did more tackling than our midfield and was always looking for the ball. I put him just above Jones, who I agree did really well at CB.

 

[WR10]

Has the post conference been posted anywhere?

 

[saivet]

Plus sides:

• Phil Jones was immense, especially after moving to the centre of the back 3. Really allows him to show his abilities to the fullest that position IMO.
• Blackett did very well.
• Cleverley looked much improved. As long as he keeps his tempo high he's a decent player.
• Van Persie is back and did OK.
• Valencia was generally pretty solid and composed and put in a super cross for the goal.
• Rooney and Young continued their reasonable form.

Down sides:

• Fletcher was shocking.
• Mata contributed little again aside from the goal.
• Januzaj looked like an immature kid playing centre mid who's never played centre mid before.
• Young still hasn't realised he needs to try and stay on his feet after the rep he's gained.
• Smalling was poor and is now injured. In contrast to Jones, shouldn't play at the centre of the back 3 as his ability on the ball is not good enough there.

Biggest positive I suppose is that we should have one or two reinforcements before the next game.

Not sure how you can be positive about RVP, Rooney, Young and Valencia and then have Mata as one of the down sides.

 

[Devil may care]

Over the 90 minutes a draw was a fair result, I thought Blackett and Jones played well but Smalling picking up another injury is a blow if we are sticking with this back 3. I find it hard to judge Rooney and RvP because they have such a poor midfield behind them, we don't have a CM who wants to take responsibility for setting the tempo and feeding the forwards so too often RvP and Rooney end up dropping too deep to get a touch, plus we lose way too many 50/50 tackles in midfield to compete with the best sides IMO.

The other issue is that LvG is essentially playing 3-4-3 as opposed to 5-3-2 with the wingbacks expected to do more attacking than defending, and that means we are again relying on the dreadful duo of Young and Valencia who just do not attack the fullback enough or create enough chances, both slow our moves down. Hopefully Shaw and Rafael can rectify that area of the team when they are fit.

In the bigger picture this might end up a good point but the performances are concerning.

 

[TwoSheds]

I would disagree with the bits in bold. But I am sure there are others that may side with you.

I thought Cleverley made lots of wasterful passes and did little to attempt to attack. We needed a goal and he was continuously moving sideways or playing to the back four. We didn't need keep ball.

I thought Rooney and Young were very ineffective. As I mentioned in another post Young has gone back to last season's form, whereas in pre-season he looked as though he was out to impress and was a bit of an attacking threat.

As for Mata, he probably did more tackling than our midfield and was always looking for the ball. I put him just above Jones, who I agree did really well at CB.

Cleverley did his best to be positive for once IMO. That's why I thought he was much improved, he at least tried to spread the ball around quicker even if it didnt all come off. Still needs a good testosterone injection to the bollocks but I was pleased with the improvement. At least he was our best central midfielder whatever you think of the performance.

 

[Kill 'em all]

In the past we could rely on our back 4 to keep us in games if we weren't producing and grab a goal in the last 10 minutes to win the game. We can't do that anymore with this inexperienced back 3.

 

[Will Singh]

@Will Singh I guess thats that. No one has answered this question so far.

I did say we were talking over 3 managers and not this game, I've agreed with you that this game/season we've had no other options!

 

[Hed Zitin]

Djemba Djemba era wasn't as bad as that.

What the hell did we create? We looked no better than Sunderland.

 

[marlowe78]

In the past we could rely on our back 4 to keep us in games if we weren't producing and grab a goal in the last 10 minutes to win the game. We can't do that anymore with this inexperienced back 3.

This is a huge problem and it's interesting I haven't seen it talked about more. Part of what made us such a goal-scoring threat in 2012/13 and before was that we had backs Evra, Evans, Rafael, etc who could crash the net on corners and an odd press. With the state of our defence all three have to stay back so that option isn't available to us.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

WE GOT A POINT! I guess at least we attacked a bit at the end. Last season, we would have just passed the ball around happy with the point away from home.

Last season you won that fixture 2-1 because of that young Belgian!

 

[Kaos]

I hope Di Maria coming in spells the end for Valencia and Young, they've been passengers for years now. Cleverley needs to be go play in the Kazakh league or something to rebuild himself.

Oh and if it isnt apparent already - sign a fecking midfielder or two! I'm strapped down and willing to accept there's no quick fix, but actually possessing a remote ounce of quality in the middle of the field might start to rectify that.

 

[Tibs]

Cleverley - shit

Fletcher -shit

Young -dived, shit, but at least tried to attack, shit

Rooney - shit

Valencia - words cannot do justice to just how shit he is. He'd be a bench warmer for Rochdale

 

[itso 7]

This team needs Van Gaal to lose it and apply some shock therapy to them. I think drastic action is required before this becomes a habit, yes we had the dross in the middle and on the flanks but does that give Rooney, Van Persie and Mata the right to fecking stand around, pass the ball backwards and basically do feck all ? I think first off Welbeck and Kagawa need to start as the main striker and AM, get Januzaj and someone from the reserves in on the other wing, sign a DM and promote Pearson as a matter of urgency. We need to play something like;
Rafael Jones Evans Rojo
De Jong Pearson
Januzaj KagawaLawrence*
Welbeck
Continuing with this flat team, insipid performances will soon have us lingering around fourteenth before even meeting the really tough team. If we don't sign a DM within the next few days then we deserve all the misery that comes our away. After what we've seen today I think LvG must dump this notion of playing sacred cows in their preferred position and have players, all players, earning their place in the team. I'd drop all three of Van Persie, Rooney and Mata to play players who have something to prove, who will move off the ball and leave everything on the pitch. Last week you could at least blame individual errors today we created one chance, one chance against Sunderland!

 

[shaggy]

We were very very lucky to get a point. Hopefully we get some signings in pronto.

 

[Loublaze]

I did say we were talking over 3 managers and not this game, I've agreed with you that this game/season we've had no other options!

Fair enough. Ive heard a lot of people cursing Young and Valencia's selection fully knowing we don't have options. They could never come up with alternatives.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Happy with a point. The midfield was an absolute joke so to get anything out of that is a plus. Cleverley, fletcher and young were shockingly bad. It should never have gotten to the stage where we have to field those 4 but what can you do now. Let's hope we don't fall too far behind till this team gets used to LVG's methods.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

I wasnt expecting much from the team with the midfield we currently have no real choice over. And they didnt disappoint.

Having said that, I thought Jones was great, actually took on the responsibility when shifted to the middle, I think Smalling has more natural defensive talent, but Jones is the man to lead that defense in the future, we need someone next to him with Rojo short to medium term though, hes not ready yet.

Mata was quite good today, starved of the ball due to the midfield, but worked it well and chased after it when he could, certainly better than last week.

VP isnt match fit, plainly obvious, and Rooney didnt see much of the ball which was one of our main failings of the day. Fletch is a great guy, but he isnt good enough to be the man in a midfield 2, I wouldnt want him gone or anything, hes handy cover, but that is all he should be.

Blackett has been the bright spot for me so far, he made a mistake in the last game, which you expect from playing the youngsters, but overall solid, he could be playing there for us for the next decade easily.

My main thought from this game was how much difference someone who can run at defenders with the ball at pace would have made. Di Maria isnt a 'panic buy' or someone who we dont need. he is exactly what we need to turn games like today into wins.

 

[Mister Ed]

Plus sides:

• Phil Jones was immense, especially after moving to the centre of the back 3. Really allows him to show his abilities to the fullest that position IMO.
• Blackett did very well.
• Cleverley looked much improved. As long as he keeps his tempo high he's a decent player.
• Van Persie is back and did OK.
• Valencia was generally pretty solid and composed and put in a super cross for the goal.
  
• Rooney and Young continued their reasonable form.

Down sides:

• Fletcher was shocking.
• Mata contributed little again aside from the goal.
• Januzaj looked like an immature kid playing centre mid who's never played centre mid before.
• Young still hasn't realised he needs to try and stay on his feet after the rep he's gained.
• Smalling was poor and is now injured. In contrast to Jones, shouldn't play at the centre of the back 3 as his ability on the ball is not good enough there.

Biggest positive I suppose is that we should have one or two reinforcements before the next game.

Not sure if serious ?

Cleverley looked ok to you ?, Valencia was Solid, Young, Rooney and RVP did something good today on the pitch according to you ?

Wtf kind of game were you watching, surley not the same as me !

 

[dev1l]

Cleverley - shit

Fletcher -shit

Young -dived, shit, but at least tried to attack, shit

Rooney - shit

Valencia - words cannot do justice to just how shit he is. He'd be a bench warmer for Rochdale

Tibs...full of shit :lol

 

[Getsme]

Last season you won that fixture 2-1 because of that young Belgian!

Yep, I think we played worse in that game, very lucky if I recall properly.

 

[Livewire1974]

Take a deep breath mate. If you think training isn't working based on two matches (and a heinous injury list), then I feel any logical argument will be wasted on you.

Taking 1 point from 6 against Swansea and Sunderland is a crisis. Two abysmal performances also, thats my logic.

 

[WyoManU]

Defense was disorganized yet again. We will get battered horribly a few times this season with our defenders as stands.
Clevs and Fletch would struggle to start on many BPL teams and we started them both. Simply not up to the standard.
Young is a waste. Wish we would get rid of him. He has no idea how to attack or defend so he really can't be playing as a wing back.
Valencia was very average.
Mata cannot get into games where there is pressure applied...and he plays in the BPL. Not good.
Rooney was all huff and no product.
RVP didn't do much but it was his first match back.

We have some serious, serious problems. I cannot see this squad getting anywhere near 4th place. 7th looks about right. Sad times. Serious, long term rebuilding is required and so many of our guys simply need to go and we need to start fresh.

 

[simonhch]

Taking 1 point from 6 against Swansea and Sunderland is a crisis. Two abysmal performances also, thats my logic.

You're almost hysterical at this point. It's just two games. We came into this season on the back of our worst 12 months in about 20 years. Rubbish squad, filled with problems. On top of all of that we have a huge injury list. The crisis started when Fergie retired. It was compounded by the appointment of Moyes, who was completely clueless. Van Gaal has been at the club for a few weeks. All of his signings are unavailable, as well as several first teamers. Other key players have left and yet to be replaced. But yet you are ready to slam his training methods and turn on the manager already.

He came out before the season started and said it'd take time for the players to learn they way he wanted them to play. That results would be rocky at first. His resume and achievements, show he knows what he is doing.

Have a word with yourself. It's embarrassing.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Danny Mills' commentary today was shocking. Probably the worst, most anti-united analysis during a game I've ever heard. He even made Andy Townsend's post-game analysis bearable.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You're almost hysterical at this point. It's just two games. We came into this season on the back of our worst 12 months in about 20 years. Rubbish squad, filled with problems. On top of all of that we have a huge injury list. The crisis started when Fergie retired. It was compounded by the appointment of Moyes, who was completely clueless. Van Gaal has been at the club for a few weeks. All of his signings are unavailable, as well as several first teamers. Other key players have left and yet to be replaced. But yet you are ready to slam his training methods and turn on the manager already.

He came out before the season started and said it'd take time for the players to learn they way he wanted them to play. That results would be rocky at first. His resume and achievements, show he knows what he is doing.

Have a word with yourself. It's embarrassing.

Exactly. Our confidence is sapped after last season, we have hired a manager whose philosophy is the complete opposite of the previous one, we have injuries to new signings, and Woodward has taken too long to get other signings in.

I don't see the point in expecting LVG to come in and get everyone completely with the program (very different program) instantly. You don't go from shit on a stick wingplay to technical passing football overnight. But importantly, you can see a visible shift.

 

[simonhch]

Danny Mills' commentary today was shocking. Probably the worst, most anti-united analysis during a game I've ever heard. He even made Andy Townsend's post-game analysis bearable.

Agreed. The whole commentary team was bad, but Mills was about as ABU as it gets. Not to mention the analysis of a player like Di Maria was a joke. Saying he wouldn't fit into the team etc. At one point he said he lacked pace. He also said Herrera wasn't premier league standard, based on one game (a game in which he came off injured). He's as ignorant as they come.

The wankers at half time on NBC over here were appalling, as well. The same level of ignorance. It's like they only ever watch the premier league and their knowledge of players beyond the UK borders is close to non existent.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Agreed. The whole commentary team was bad, but Mills was about as ABU as it gets. Not to mention the analysis of a player like Di Maria was a joke. Saying he wouldn't fit into the team etc. At one point he said he lacked pace. He also said Herrera wasn't premier league standard, based on one game (a game in which he came off injured). He's as ignorant as they come.

The wankers at half time on NBC over here were appalling, as well. The same level of ignorance. It's like they only ever watch the premier league and their knowledge of players beyond the UK borders is close to non existent.

Danny mills described Herrera as too lightweight and he'd need at least a year to be able to even play in the league. He also stressed repeatedly how important it was for the wing backs to stay forward and for the outside centre halves to hug the line and defend the opposing wingers. He literally has no clue.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The only thing that has cheered me up somewhat today, was that LVG acknowledged the problems were that our attacking passes were slow and laboured. Such a relief after enduring a season of 'we played well' from Moyes. LVG is exactly the right man for this job, but it's going to take a lot of work, hopefully starting with a complete clear out over the next week. If pre seasons friendlies aren't a good judge of a players capabilities, then our highly winnable opening 2 games of the season must surely have provided him with some clear answers. Time to shift the shit LVG, starting with Young and Valencia.

They were not carrying out LVG's wishes. When they come under pressure they are resorting to what they know and that is the backward, sideway passing of last season. It is almost like a comfort blanket to them. If they won't change, then it may take a couple of summers to bring in players who will play the way he wants.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Danny mills described Herrera as too lightweight and he'd need at least a year to be able to even play in the league. He also stressed repeatedly how important it was for the wing backs to stay forward and for the outside centre halves to hug the line and defend the opposing wingers. He literally has no clue.

Isn't that a slight problem with our game and commentators that they think everyone has to be built like a brick shithouse. It's no wonder our national side is so bad when they are proud that a big part of it is big cloggers kicking hell out of any skillful players.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Isn't that a slight problem with our game and commentators that they think everyone has to be built like a brick shithouse.

Agreed, their idea of a good team would include Cattermole and Barton in midfield. Danny Mills had nothing but praise for the cnut Cattermole all afternoon.