[EmPeeKay]

I think he might decide to call it a day himself. This is his last job before his retirement and it sounds better to have called it a day himself rather than getting the sack. I feel sorry for him in a way, he isn't a bad Manager. It just didn't work out for him to see out his three year contract.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

After the Doc we continued to make mistakes. There were great managers around like Clough and we opted for Ron and Dave. To screw up 3 times is a bit like the Dickens' Xmas story - United past, United present, United future.

The bold bit certainly points to today's performance. There can be no way out after that performance. It has to change before this downhill helter-skelter becomes a nose dive.

Did you think big Ron was a mistake. I must admit I thought he built a really good team. We were very close to winning the first 11 games of the season, drew to Ipswich and then it turned to shit. Have absolutely no idea why.

 

[Spock]

Whatever happens on Monday, the club needs to announce the appointment of Mourinho on Tuesday.

No argues that LVG doesn't know football, but he's clearly lost the players, who themselves look lost on the pitch. It's a bit unfair on Van Gaal as what's murdered us all season has been diabolical finishing by our attacking players but he axed our best Plan B finishers and kept Fellaini.

Van Gaal should have added a top CB to his shopping list, and not with players who were too far out reach.

 

[Lentwood]

How many of those players today showed what you would call a "Manchester Utd mentality"? Personally I would say only Rooney and Herrera

Don't confuse that with me saying those players played well, because they didn't, but they were the ones who rushed to get back on their feet after being brought down, who tried to get stuck into the opposition, who chased lost causes, who gave as good as they were getting and tried to rally the players around them

The rest need to do more. Carrick, senior player, invisible, sauntering around the pitch like somebody out on a Sunday morning stroll accidentally coming across a football match. Blind holding his face whilst play is going on around him was infuriating. Martial and Memphis falling over and taking forever to get up and sulking on the ground. De Gea looking at everybody in front in disgust every time we concede as if he is infallible and the rest are beneath him. Not a word from our two centre halves

Call me old fashioned, I would have quite liked a Roy Keane or Paul Scholes type horror tackle just to show they care about the result

 

[Jazz]

Bet the teams journey home was a bundle of laughs. Wonder if Giggs and Rooney shared the joke they were laughing about with the rest of the lads?

Read that that pic was taken after Stoke first scored. Don't know if true - before the Giggs lovers start jumping all over my arse.

 

[Moriarty]

there was talk Maurinho wanted a say about who is his assistant. May be one of the sticking points to be discussed. Personally I would be happy if he did bring someone of his choice in.

It should be a no-brainer. Mourinho won't want the club's choice of assistant manager foisted on him. I'm surprised Van Gaal agreed to it, given his close relationship with Kluivert.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Read that that pic was taken after Stoke first scored. Don't know if true - before the Giggs lovers start jumping all over my arse.

That's not good, if that is true of course. What's the betting the press are all over it?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Did you think big Ron was a mistake. I must admit I thought he built a really good team. We were very close to winning the first 11 games of the season, drew to Ipswich and then it turned to shit. Have absolutely no idea why.

IIRC it was a bad injury to Bryan Robson that turned things for the worse

 

[Moriarty]

That's not good, if that is true of course. What's the betting the press are all over it?

If it's true (and it's a big if), then the whole fecking place is toxic and needs mucking out.

 

[Tyrion]

I feel sorry for LVG and I respect his honesty but things have gotten too far at this point and there needs to be change. He's still had a great career and even at the top level, 99% of managers get sacked at some point.

 

[Parma Dewol]

I think he might decide to call it a day himself. This is his last job before his retirement and it sounds better to have called it a day himself rather than getting the sack. I feel sorry for him in a way, he isn't a bad Manager. It just didn't work out for him to see out his three year contract.

Agree with you. His post-match comments seem to suggest that he will choose to call it a day, and it wouldn't really come as a surprise at this point. As you say, it just didn't work out for him.

 

[Jazz]

That's not good, if that is true of course. What's the betting the press are all over it?

I posted another pic in the Giggs thread and am getting slaughtered for thinking Giggs looks too happy sat beside LVG whilst LVG looked like he was in pain Said I'm reading too much into the pic. Funnily, some other United and non-United friends of mine showed me those pics and felt the exact way I did. Anyway, probably irrelevant as long as Giggs isn't made manager

 

[Stretford End Phil]

Did you think big Ron was a mistake. I must admit I thought he built a really good team. We were very close to winning the first 11 games of the season, drew to Ipswich and then it turned to shit. Have absolutely no idea why.

Honestly, Ron started with promise, especially signing Robbo in front of the fans and he built a good cup side, but he never countered the Scouse formula. When he was sacked it was already a few years too late. Ron papered over the cracks that first appeared during Busby's second period, and by the time he went we had become a legend without substance. That Fergie took so long to restore the club is a reflection on Ron's tenure as well as the preceding years.

BTW Today is different. What we're doing is effectively shooting ourselves in the foot like amateurs.

 

[Todd]

Few months ago I called for Blind and Mata to be dropped and got blasted for it.

I now feel vindicated, but take no pleasure in it.

It may be a battle for top 4 this season after all.

 

[Stretford End Phil]

If it's true (and it's a big if), then the whole fecking place is toxic and needs mucking out.

Totally with you on that point. I guess the 'mucking out' has probably been necessary since the Glazers takeover. Problem is - who does the clean up?

 

[mav_9me]

I think he might decide to call it a day himself. This is his last job before his retirement and it sounds better to have called it a day himself rather than getting the sack. I feel sorry for him in a way, he isn't a bad Manager. It just didn't work out for him to see out his three year contract.

Yeah..unfortunately that's how it looks like. I quite like him. I think he brought us authority, arrogance and organization. Unfortunately he couldn't build on it and it's gotten worse.

Sad to see him going out this way.

 

[Moriarty]

Totally with you on that point. I guess the 'mucking out' has probably been necessary since the Glazers takeover. Problem is - who does the clean up?

That's the big question. The decision-makers at United are so entrenched that it would take a cruise missile strike to dislodge them. Say what you like about City's owners, but they've turned a basket case of a club into a set up that could, one day, rival that of Barca, or Bayern. What we are seeing now is the effects of the massive debt we were saddled with by the Glazers. All that money, that should have been invested in the club at all levels, got pissed away. MUST must be feeling vindicated.

 

[Red Dreams]

After the Doc we continued to make mistakes. There were great managers around like Clough and we opted for Ron and Dave. To screw up 3 times is a bit like the Dickens' Xmas story - United past, United present, United future.

The bold bit certainly points to today's performance. There can be no way out after that performance. It has to change before this downhill helter-skelter becomes a nose dive.

I could see the board shitting it with him . yeah. he would have been brilliant for us.

 

[Red Dreams]

That's the big question. The decision-makers at United are so entrenched that it would take a cruise missile strike to dislodge them. Say what you like about City's owners, but they've turned a basket case of a club into a set up that could, one day, rival that of Barca, or Bayern. What we are seeing now is the effects of the massive debt we were saddled with by the Glazers. All that money, that should have been invested in the club at all levels, got pissed away. MUST must be feeling vindicated.

The difference between us and City is that Mansor bought City to make them a 'brand'. So he is going to bring in managers who will do his bidding with that goal in mind. They are not a profitable venture. The Glazers are investors. They depend on Fergie, Charlton Gill and such for the football advice and they have been poorly served. In the end though, money talks. They will over rule them. I can see the near future where other football authorities are consulted and Fergie and Charlton will be strictly ambassadors .

 

[Red Dreams]

It should be a no-brainer. Mourinho won't want the club's choice of assistant manager foisted on him. I'm surprised Van Gaal agreed to it, given his close relationship with Kluivert.

hindsight an all. Think with Kluivert he would have had done a lot better. van Gaal had the opportunity to manage the biggest club on earth. He was willing to accept the condition. can't blame him.

 

[Stretford End Phil]

The difference between us and City is that Mansor bought City to make them a 'brand'. So he is going to bring in managers who will do his bidding with that goal in mind. They are not a profitable venture. The Glazers are investors. They depend on Fergie, Charlton Gill and such for the football advice and they have been poorly served. In the end though, money talks. They will over rule them. I can see the near future where other football authorities are consulted and Fergie and Charlton will be strictly ambassadors .

If the player power scenario continues the way it's been developing, boards will have to find experts to negotiate with players, and managers will have to evolve into different beasts. Pep and his methods look like the future and I would expect his next step will be the Bitters. They seem to want to set the business-management-development pace. Having been so long in front, we are now falling behind if not looking positively backward. Since the World Cup football has changed and clubs are only just recognising that fact and addressing the implications. Hence why our next manager needs to be more than just a top man, he needs real vision for the future of the game, otherwise we might fall into the second tier irrespective of all our wealth.

 

[Red Dreams]

no arguments Phil. We are at a critical stage where if we allow sentiment to influence us too much, we will fall further behind. the next few days will be so importnat for us. Lets hope the board gets its act together.

 

[Libano]

Three games without Bastian, three losses. Coincidence?

 

[Stretford End Phil]

no arguments Phil. We are at a critical stage where if we allow sentiment to influence us too much, we will fall further behind. the next few days will be so importnat for us. Lets hope the board gets its act together.

Agree with you about sentiment, we cannot allow this mess to continue.

 

[Moriarty]

The difference between us and City is that Mansor bought City to make them a 'brand'. So he is going to bring in managers who will do his bidding with that goal in mind. They are not a profitable venture. The Glazers are investors. They depend on Fergie, Charlton Gill and such for the football advice and they have been poorly served. In the end though, money talks. They will over rule them. I can see the near future where other football authorities are consulted and Fergie and Charlton will be strictly ambassadors .

Aren't we a 'brand' too, and a much bigger one than City? If the goal is to maximise the brand's potential, then the club needs to be the biggest and the best; ergo, United should have the best football men available to ensure the goal is met. We should be able to attract the best local talent and we should provide the kids with the best possible academy facilities in the game. All this, I think, goes without saying.

Our problem stems from poor planning for the past six or so years. @Lentwood wrote a very good post on this topic elsewhere. City have demonstrated some very good forward planning and are reaping the benefits. We went from self-sufficiency to being in an incredible amount of debt in short order. We were shielded from the immediate effects of such stupidity by Fergie but not any more.

 

[Moriarty]

Hence why our next manager needs to be more than just a top man, he needs real vision for the future of the game, otherwise we might fall into the second tier irrespective of all our wealth.

I'd go a step further. I'd say the new man, and his team of assistants, coaches, etc., need to share the same vision. Sir Matt oversaw the club from the top down and so did Fergie. But maybe those days are gone and clubs should be more compartmentalized. There can be no place for backstabbing and underhand tricks at a club like ours. The manager and his team need to be singing from the same hymnsheet.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Aren't we a 'brand' too, and a much bigger one than City? If the goal is to maximise the brand's potential, then the club needs to be the biggest and the best; ergo, United should have the best football men available to ensure the goal is met. We should be able to attract the best local talent and we should provide the kids with the best possible academy facilities in the game. All this, I think, goes without saying.

Our problem stems from poor planning for the past six or so years. @Lentwood wrote a very good post on this topic elsewhere. City have demonstrated some very good forward planning and are reaping the benefits. We went from self-sufficiency to being in an incredible amount of debt in short order. We were shielded from the immediate effects of such stupidity by Fergie but not any more.

I got slated for saying this yesterday as blaming SAF. He won the titles through experience alone and tbh not a particularly amazing squad ever since Ronaldo left us. Our squad has been getting worse until the point that the squad left for us at the time of moyes was a SAF squad not adaptable or particularly productive to another manager.

Van gaal may have failed here and tbh he has at every club he has managed but a team with the likes of memphis & martial, shaw, smalling, scneirdlin alongside quality squad players like blind should be more manageable in the long run.

If the debt didnt happen, SAF would have had only one thing to worry about. Look at it this way: we as a club are used to winning titles back to back but he left us with the same squad that lost to city added the benefit of a striker in van persie.. Thats it & nothing else.

 

[Moriarty]

I got slated for saying this yesterday as blaming SAF. He won the titles through experience alone and tbh not a particularly amazing squad ever since Ronaldo left us. Our squad has been getting worse until the point that the squad left for us at the time of moyes was a SAF squad not adaptable or particularly productive to another manager.

I think that's pretty clear given Van Gaal has had to replace so many of those players at an incredible cost. After Moyes, players were brought in without, apparently, much thought going into where they'd fit into the team, or into the manager's philosophy. We spent a mint on Di Maria and am awful lot of money on Falcao's wages for starters. We chased after people like Bale, Fabregas, Muller, and even Neymar but for what? So that Ed could make his marquee signing and send out a message?

I don't blame Fergie for retiring when he did. He didn't have it in him to build another team from scratch and after years of having to make do and mend, that's understandable. But the whole succession thing has been really short-sighted. For example, why didn't Fergie give Giggs some sort of managerial role back in, say 2010-2011 when his career was winding down? At least that way, the club would have been better able to judge his potential, or lack thereof as the case may be.

 

[Ixion]

I don't blame Fergie for retiring when he did. He didn't have it in him to build another team from scratch and after years of having to make do and mend, that's understandable. But the whole succession thing has been really short-sighted. For example, why didn't Fergie give Giggs some sort of managerial role back in, say 2010-2011 when his career was winding down? At least that way, the club would have been better able to judge his potential, or lack thereof as the case may be.

Fergie didn't intend to retire when he did, he probably still intended to be there for a couple more years until his wife's sister passed. He unexpectedly leaving the club (as well as Gill leaving and Vidic, Evra, Rio all hating Moyes) really made the succession even harder than it was always going to be.

 

[Moriarty]

Fergie didn't intend to retire when he did, he probably still intended to be there for a couple more years until his wife's sister passed. He unexpectedly leaving the club (as well as Gill leaving and Vidic, Evra, Rio all hating Moyes) really made the succession even harder than it was always going to be.

Another of those imponderables that crop up. I distinctly remember Gill saying that plans for the succession were in place and the man coming in would be one with European experience and a proven track record of winning things (or words to that effect). Now that was a few years before Fergie called it a day but it turns out they were just empty words. We got David Moyes.

 

[clarkydaz]

Three games without Bastian, three losses. Coincidence?

no coincidence our midfield is non existent. It usually happens when he gets subbed off

 

[Red Dreams]

Aren't we a 'brand' too, and a much bigger one than City? If the goal is to maximise the brand's potential, then the club needs to be the biggest and the best; ergo, United should have the best football men available to ensure the goal is met. We should be able to attract the best local talent and we should provide the kids with the best possible academy facilities in the game. All this, I think, goes without saying.

Our problem stems from poor planning for the past six or so years. @Lentwood wrote a very good post on this topic elsewhere. City have demonstrated some very good forward planning and are reaping the benefits. We went from self-sufficiency to being in an incredible amount of debt in short order. We were shielded from the immediate effects of such stupidity by Fergie but not any more.

The way we are set up financially, we were never in danger of going under. We are simply a different financial model. Many businesses over here for example are run with debt. Risk is managed. The brand as you say is we the supporters. We are the best supported club on earth. For the yanks it means 'Customers'. That was always the key. It still is. Yes we made some stupid mistakes which we have rode over...even now.

I have maintained in several posts here and elswhere, the title is still within our grasp. I took a nap. I see the gooners lost 4-0 . No one is running away with the title.


Believe. IF Morinho is appointed. Not to do so now would be gross incompetence.

 

[Ixion]

Three games without Bastian, three losses. Coincidence?

His reaction when he gets back in the team

Spoiler

 

[Moriarty]

We are simply a different financial model. Many businesses over here for example are run with debt.

Perhaps, but United isn't, say, a bank or a large property developer. The colossal amounts of cash that were diverted from team building into paying off debt has damaged the club tremendously. Might we have won more European Cups with better investment? We can't say, but it's tempting to think that we might have brought in that special player or players that would have made the difference. Letting a manager, no matter how good he is, run such a huge enterprise on a shoestring was really taking a risk with the club; well, it was for the supporters. It worked out for the Glazers because of the man in charge of the team. But we're not debt-free yet and I suspect that the money invested since the appointment of Moyes will be a drop in the bucket compared to what's actually needed to bring us back to the point where (a)we're challenging for trophies at home and in Europe each season, and (b) we're bringing through the best young talent in the academy.

 

[Red Dreams]

Perhaps, but United isn't, say, a bank or a large property developer. The colossal amounts of cash that were diverted from team building into paying off debt has damaged the club tremendously. Might we have won more European Cups with better investment? We can't say, but it's tempting to think that we might have brought in that special player or players that would have made the difference. Letting a manager, no matter how good he is, run such a huge enterprise on a shoestring was really taking a risk with the club; well, it was for the supporters. It worked out for the Glazers because of the man in charge of the team. But we're not debt-free yet and I suspect that the money invested since the appointment of Moyes will be a drop in the bucket compared to what's actually needed to bring us back to the point where (a)we're challenging for trophies at home and in Europe each season, and (b) we're bringing through the best young talent in the academy.

good points mate.

It took them a few years to finally float the business that is now Manchester United which has many financial institutions and hedge funds invested in it.

But these guys are learning the football side of the business. They will have realised through these last few years Fergie was the one holding up the entire club. But that does not translate to him successfully cloning himself as he tried to do with Moyes. They will step back from him and Charlton I think. The remaining part of the season will be interesting to say the least.

 

[Moriarty]

But these guys are learning the football side of the business. They will have realised through these last few years Fergie was the one holding up the entire club. But that does not translate to him successfully cloning himself as he tried to do with Moyes. They will step back from him and Charlton I think. The remaining part of the season will be interesting to say the least.

Look what they did to Tampa after winning the Super Bowl. They know how to run a sports 'franchise' all right. In my opinion, the takeover was reliant upon Fergie's genius. He was the lynchpin and they knew it from the off. Given the cutthroat nature of big business, I can't see them giving Fergie a second chance to install the new manager, or Charlton either for that matter. Trouble is, who do they turn to for counsel? It would have to be an outside consultant who may or may not be a footballing man. It will be interesting to see what happens but if I were to hazard a guess, Van Gaal will resign after the Chelsea game and Mourinho will be installed. Then the fur will fly.

 

[Red Dreams]

Look what they did to Tampa after winning the Super Bowl. They know how to run a sports 'franchise' all right. In my opinion, the takeover was reliant upon Fergie's genius. He was the lynchpin and they knew it from the off. Given the cutthroat nature of big business, I can't see them giving Fergie a second chance to install the new manager, or Charlton either for that matter. Trouble is, who do they turn to for counsel? It would have to be an outside consultant who may or may not be a footballing man. It will be interesting to see what happens but if I were to hazard a guess, Van Gaal will resign after the Chelsea game and Mourinho will be installed. Then the fur will fly.

think van Gaal will not be at the Chelsea match mate. too much bad blood as it is. He has lost teh players/staff and most importantly the supporters. If we lose that match, we will be wanting the board's blood. They know this.

 

[Moriarty]

think van Gaal will not be at the Chelsea match mate. too much bad blood as it is. He has lost teh players/staff and most importantly the supporters. If we lose that match, we will be wanting the board's blood. They know this.

Could be, but I do think he'll walk before he's sacked. This is all a bit like Frank O'Farrell's last few days in charge when everybody and his brother knew that Tommy Doc was waiting in the wings. Granada even sent a reporter to interview the Doc before O'Farrell was sacked to ask him if he'd been offered the job. That's how secret that business was.

 

[Red Dreams]

Could be, but I do think he'll walk before he's sacked. This is all a bit like Frank O'Farrell's last few days in charge when everybody and his brother knew that Tommy Doc was waiting in the wings. Granada even sent a reporter to interview the Doc before O'Farrell was sacked to ask him if he'd been offered the job. That's how secret that business was.

too errily the same. Lets hope Mourinho is not going to fiddle someone's wife this time.

 

[paulscholes18]

Must do better, Chelsea on Monday is a very winnable game