[Smores]

I wouldn't go off the deep end too much, overall you were the better team, just look at the stats

60% possession
23 shots to their 13
48 touches in the box to their 18
4 clear cut chances to their 0

De Ligt, Amad, Onana and Zirkzee looked great, Bruno just keeps going and going. Yoro had his first blip, but that happens, Hojlund is also struggling for confidence at the moment, but look at the turn around in Zirkzee, written off as shit just a few games ago, Hojlund is capable of far more than he's shown in the last few games.

Things could have been very different if Garnacho had scored early on and on any other day he would have done from that chance. You look so much better than you did under ETH, this team is developing and beginning to show what they can do, enjoy the hat trick and let's see what happens when we meet this weekend, I'm not massively confident about Brighton's chances, but it will be a good game as we're both perking up at the same time.

I do think us United fans viewed it through a specific lens of 'oh here we go again' type PTSD. It wasn't as bad as it felt, if that game was during the Fergie era where yes we had plenty of tough games against minnows then it would feel very different.

As you say we had plenty of big chances and in the end we did what we needed to do. We're just desperate as a fan base to put a 90 minute performance together where we comfortably defeat someone.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

That Amad hat trick covers a multitude of problems for us. Yesterday I am seriously starting to worry that yes, we could be in a relegation fight.

I've seen matches where we've lost many times and you could pinpoint players not trying hard enough but I didn't really see a lack of effort last night more systemic issues with what our players are doing with and without the ball.

I am not sure if I am more pissed off with Hojlund for still not being able to control the bal in hold up play OR for the rest of his teammates still booting the ball towards him.

I never thought he was an out and out target man and yet we continue to lump the ball to him

 

[Eric's-collar]

Amad, De Ligt, Zirkzee and Collyer were the only ones out there tonight.

Feels like we see this every other week. At least we showed a bit towards the end. Zirkzee, Amad and De Ligt can hold their heads up. The rest were not at it. Brighton is going to be a tough game

Yeah going to be another hard watch on sunday, and probably rest of season, Zirkzee holding the ball up, made such a difference

 

[cirilus]

Just highlights the limitations in our squad. We haven't many players who can play well, consistently. And we have a squad of limited quality.

Mainoo needs to sort himself out. He should take a look at Amad. Does he (Mainoo) want to become yet another good young talent, who just ends up an average player with the odd outstanding performance?

Amad, Mainoo, Garnacho. These are v good, young players.

We need to thank Onana too. He kept us in the game.

Everyone is getting a chance under Amorim.so it exposes players.

Clearly this.

No need to be too harsh on the players, we lack quality and quantity in 1st team.

And with our usual price tags, it just makes it worse for young boys to stay and settle as great players.

No need to think that they "unlearned" how to touch a ball or string 2 passes.

Too much pressure, too much hype, too much responsability, too much history in the club, too much instability in the organization.

 

[erikcred]

That Amad hat trick covers a multitude of problems for us. Yesterday I am seriously starting to worry that yes, we could be in a relegation fight.

I've seen matches where we've lost many times and you could pinpoint players not trying hard enough but I didn't really see a lack of effort last night more systemic issues with what our players are doing with and without the ball.

I am not sure if I am more pissed off with Hojlund for still not being able to control the bal in hold up play OR for the rest of his teammates still booting the ball towards him.

I never thought he was an out and out target man and yet we continue to lump the ball to him

This match shows exactly why we'll never be in a relegation fight. Too much individual quality. Can't believe people are actually discussing this as a possibility.

If each of our main squad shows up properly for just 10 games out of 38 and they all show up together as expected for 5 or 6 of the big games, that'll keep us well away from the relegation spots.

Of course, our aims are a lot higher than survival but it shows how consistently poor and unlucky we would have to be to even get dragged into a relegation battle.

 

[sixdwarf]

Let's not kid ourselves. We got out of jail yesterday. I still say the system has to to fit the players.. Amad was a wing back. And he and his wing back partner Mzaraoui were too deep. So United were inviting pressure and had zero control and you could hear the groans. Boos at half time were huge. The goals came significantly when they and Amad had to be let off the leash.
Amorim is likeable but too stubborn like previous 'philosophy' man Van Gaal. And anyone who thinks that subbing Mainoo for f#cking Antony at half time is an answer is mental.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

It’s bizarre how many people seem to perceive footballers as robots, able to perform at 100% 24x7.

Really bizarre. Must be some form of projection / resentment involved. Either that or total psychopaths!

It’s the nuance that makes football entertaining, try embracing it

 

[Mike Smalling]

I am not sure if I am more pissed off with Hojlund for still not being able to control the bal in hold up play OR for the rest of his teammates still booting the ball towards him.

I never thought he was an out and out target man and yet we continue to lump the ball to him

Yeah, this is unfathomable to me. Obviously we have to clear it long sometimes, but other times we play Højlund like he is a Drogba type player, which he clearly isn't. When we find him running the channels, he can sometimes provide something useful. When we play it to his feet around the center circle with a defender in tight coverage, we just lose the ball.

It's a combination of a player with severe limitations and the team not playing well enough to mitigate it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, this is unfathomable to me. Obviously we have to clear it long sometimes, but other times we play Højlund like he is a Drogba type player, which he clearly isn't. When we find him running the channels, he can sometimes provide something useful. When we play it to his feet around the center circle with a defender in tight coverage, we just lose the ball.

It's a combination of a player with severe limitations and the team not playing well enough to mitigate it.

At the end of the day we need to play 11v11. A striker doesn't need to be a "Drogba type player" to be able to occasionally come deep to receive a pass and lay it off to a team mate. In fact, that's the sort of play a striker who likes to run channels needs to be able to make. Because it's the next pass after that one which is often the best opportunity to release him in behind.

 

[Mike Smalling]

At the end of the day we need to play 11v11. A striker doesn't need to be a "Drogba type player" to be able to occasionally come deep to receive a pass and lay it off to a team mate. In fact, that's the sort of play a striker who likes to run channels needs to be able to make. Because it's the next pass after that one which is often the best opportunity to release him in behind.

Yeah, but he can't. We need someone better. But in the meantime, it would be great if we didn't constantly play it to his feet, where we know he can't handle it.

 

[Chairman Steve]

The need for a clinical striker to finish chances and proper wing backs to create chances is integral for these types of games.

Luckily Amad is in good form.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, but he can't. We need someone better. But in the meantime, it would be great if we didn't constantly play it to his feet, where we know he can't handle it.

Yeah but you get how mad it is to say a football shouldn't be passed to a footballers feet?

 

[Tincanalley]

I think the game was literally stretched in the last ten minutes. Eriksen - well in his own half - started the move for Amad’s second. He covered an awful lot of ground to receive Diallo’s cross. As Amad then belted off on his forward run, Eriksen chiselled his toe under the ball, setting it spinning in reverse over the defence. Time stuttered, then raced. The outstretched foot of a flying Diallo made a prodding, falling contact to direct the ball past the keeper. It’s a thing of beauty in slow-mo.

The third goal developed along the length of the pitch in a different way. Taylor Howard Bellis, who had just missed with a header having gone up for a corner in extra time, took his eye off the ball.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Yeah but you get how mad it is to say a football shouldn't be passed to a footballers feet?

It’s bad, yes. It’s not universal of course. If he is not being tightly covered, it’s a different situation, and I think he can do some good when he has room to turn, or receive the ball with his front to goal.

I’m just so sick of the ball bouncing off him, because it’s really predictable and the resulting turnover can be punished by better teams.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Great win but its a scoreline that absolutely flatters us. We were dreadful.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It’s bad, yes. It’s not universal of course. If he is not being tightly covered, it’s a different situation, and I think he can do some good when he has room to turn, or receive the ball with his front to goal.

I’m just so sick of the ball bouncing off him, because it’s really predictable and the resulting turnover can be punished by better teams.

I find it incredibly frustrating too. But I don't think it's fair to criticise the players hitting the passes. Relentlessly spamming through balls would be even more wasteful.

 

[Brightonian]

The problem against Southampton in the first half was Juric effectively deconstructed our formation with a very simple piece of positional play.

He put their wingers very high and wide, giving us two options, which we kindly demonstrated on each wing:

1. Our WB (Amad) continues to take up attacking positions, leaving the WCB (Yoro) totally exposed
2. Our WB (Maz) responds by sitting very deep as if in a back 5, leaving acres of space in front of him and making the two CMs look like they can't cover enough ground.

It's fairly basic and worrying that Amorim doesn't have a solution not only in his own head but drilled into the team by now. It's harsh to over-analyse failings from Mainoo/Ugarte or Yoro as a result.

For what it's worth, there is an answer, and we've seen 3421 teams do it just fine. Either

1. You choose defensive WBs, let them sit back to contain those wingers, and the central CB steps out to effectively serve as a third (defensive) midfielder, allowing the two CMs to cover wider spaces and prevent that huge gap in front of the WB. Effectively in defensive phases you become a 4321.
2. You choose attacking WBs, and one of your CMs drops deep to become an auxiliary CB in defensive phases, allowing the WCBs to push wider confident that they still have two men behind them to cover if they are beaten 1-on-1. Again, effectively a 4321 in defensive phases, just with different players dropping into those positions.

It depends on which players you want to put on the pitch. But you need to pick one approach or the other on both sides, because the CBs need to know which approach they're taking - they can't switch from one style to the other depending on which side of the pitch the ball is on.

 

[Tincanalley]

Sometimes an emotional high can be hard to come down from as well. I always find I struggle to sleep after United get a win like Sunday rather than a loss. Your emotions are all over the place and the adrenaline is going nuts. This season as long as they are safe I will cope with them turning up for the big games, then the club will have to deal with the squad in the summer.

I like that Bruno, Amad, Maguire and Zirkzee too (I know the others do too) seem fuelled by intense passion and emotion. Though the results might be uneven for the reasons you mentioned, it’s worth it. Long may their humanity shine!

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Yeah but you get how mad it is to say a football shouldn't be passed to a footballers feet?

Especially considering, as you said, often receiving it to feet initially will be the only way for Hojlund to create chances to run in behind which seems to be the way he likes to play.

Although teams don't sit as deep against us as they might against a team like City, we equally aren't 2015/16 Leicester who routinely played a very deep block and were often facing very aggressive defences which left Vardy a ton of space in behind. With that in mind, there are essentially two ways for a striker who thrives on attacking space to flourish:

1. By having an incredible instinct to capitalize on the slightest lapse in concentration a defence might give you, as well as the nous to stay onside and the athleticism to get to the ball when it's played through. (Haaland is probably the best I've ever seen at this)

2. By dragging defences out with hold-up play and essentially opening that space in behind up for yourself.

Hojlund isn't yet canny enough to make option one stick often enough, so he needs to be able to revert to option two and his touch just isn't good enough to allow for that.

 

[Tincanalley]

Let's not kid ourselves. We got out of jail yesterday. I still say the system has to to fit the players.. Amad was a wing back. And he and his wing back partner Mzaraoui were too deep. So United were inviting pressure and had zero control and you could hear the groans. Boos at half time were huge. The goals came significantly when they and Amad had to be let off the leash.
Amorim is likeable but too stubborn like previous 'philosophy' man Van Gaal. And anyone who thinks that subbing Mainoo for f#cking Antony at half time is an answer is mental.

I disagree with virtually everything you say. We didn’t get out of jail. We beat a decent team as a tired side playing poorly. We still created many chances. Mainoo was shattered and had a poor game. Anthony wasn’t great but his runs made space. Amorim is right to stick to his guns. Support him.

 

[Mike Smalling]

I find it incredibly frustrating too. But I don't think it's fair to criticise the players hitting the passes. Relentlessly spamming through balls would be even more wasteful.

Don't get me wrong, this is a Højlund problem. If he was up to scratch, it wouldn't be an issue. And you are probably right, you can't blame his teammates. Yesterday it just happened so frequently during that first half, that I found myself thinking "Just try something else, please".

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The problem against Southampton in the first half was Juric effectively deconstructed our formation with a very simple piece of positional play.

He put their wingers very high and wide, giving us two options, which we kindly demonstrated on each wing:

1. Our WB (Amad) continues to take up attacking positions, leaving the WCB (Yoro) totally exposed
2. Our WB (Maz) responds by sitting very deep as if in a back 5, leaving acres of space in front of him and making the two CMs look like they can't cover enough ground.

It's fairly basic and worrying that Amorim doesn't have a solution not only in his own head but drilled into the team by now. It's harsh to over-analyse failings from Mainoo/Ugarte or Yoro as a result.

For what it's worth, there is an answer, and we've seen 3421 teams do it just fine. Either

1. You choose defensive WBs, let them sit back to contain those wingers, and the central CB steps out to effectively serve as a third (defensive) midfielder, allowing the two CMs to cover wider spaces and prevent that huge gap in front of the WB. Effectively in defensive phases you become a 4321.
2. You choose attacking WBs, and one of your CMs drops deep to become an auxiliary CB in defensive phases, allowing the WCBs to push wider confident that they still have two men behind them to cover if they are beaten 1-on-1. Again, effectively a 4321 in defensive phases, just with different players dropping into those positions.

It depends on which players you want to put on the pitch. But you need to pick one approach or the other on both sides, because the CBs need to know which approach they're taking - they can't switch from one style to the other depending on which side of the pitch the ball is on.

That's a confusing post. Especially because you use 1 and 2 twice!

I'm sure the intention wasn't for Amad/Maz to do either of (the first) 1 or 2. There's a balance to be struck and they're both still learning that balance.

The second 1 and 2 isn't an either/or situation,. To make the formation work you need CBs to step out and you need the CMs to drop deep when they're needed. Again, this is all new to the players. Against Arsenal/Liverpool we saw "1", in particular, happening very effectively. Last night, not so much. They need to start to do these things instinctively and that will come with time. Especially time on the training pitch.

All of which gets even more complicated when individual players (usually young, inconsistent players) put in the sort of poor individual performances you apparently want us to ignore.

 

[freddie the red]

Southampton were neat and tidy last night and were able to do what our changing collective of players have been unable to do for most of the last decade.
I think that was a mixture of them playing with some freedom, knowing they are just about down, and United a bit jaded after Sunday's heroics.
Amorim later said they were late to challenges, which suggested a lack of sharpness and would bear out the idea of them being fatigued.
I can't help but be amazed at all the tactical geniuses in here, telling us all what the coach is doing wrong and what they'd do differently and why.
I'm all in with Ruben and if he wants to do what he does then I'm good with that.
He may well admit himself in post match interviews that he got something wrong but for posters in here to think they know better than him is for them to be on the road to delusion.
A squad full of aged, mediocre, perma crocked square pegs in round holes is going to take a fair while to sort out but even then he's managed to get positive results away vs better teams which, before the Liverpool game, none of us thought would happen.

 

[Tincanalley]

Don't get me wrong, this is a Højlund problem. If he was up to scratch, it wouldn't be an issue. And you are probably right, you can't blame his teammates. Yesterday it just happened so frequently during that first half, that I found myself thinking "Just try something else, please".

2 points: @Mike Smalling; do you perform dark arts to get crosses on your ‘ø’s? @Pogue Mahone, I wonder if you are getting a bit sick of that tagline…

 

[SparcMac]

https://utddistrict.co.uk/man-utd-southampton-stretford-end-announcement/17/01/2025/

That seems like BS or just some stewards being weird.

 

[Mike Smalling]

2 points: @Mike Smalling; do you perform dark arts to get crosses on your ‘ø’s? @Pogue Mahone, I wonder if you are getting a bit sick of that tagline…

I'll let you in on a little secret: When you buy a PC in Denmark, the Ø's, Æ's, and Å's are pre-installed on the keyboard for you

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Have to give Southampton some credit for how they played in the first half especially. That they didn't kill the game off despite having those chances, then the collapse at the end show why they're in the position they are though.

Amad rightly getting most of the praise for getting us out of that mess but the game started to change when Zirkzee came on. Maybe he felt as though he had something to prove with that being the first home game since being booed off, whatever it was I hope we see more of it.

 

[yamo123x]

Glaring issues in this team, its so obvious where the issues are.

-I like Martinez, Mainoo but apart from odd game both badly out of form and both lack mobility in a league where mobility is key.

-Mazroui is a better right Centre back than left wing back. But he can fill in numerous positions and is a great signing.

-We dont have a left wing back and have zero attacking threat from this area

- Midfield lacks mobility, Ugarte is excellent addition but the lack of mobility around him exposes him too

- Time is up for Antony, Casemiro, Malacia, Rashford, clock ticking for Mount, Shaw, Hojlund,Martinez, Garnacho

- Eriksen is the right player for games where we have the ball and need to break down teams, not in games against the top teams with strong midfields who will expose his lack of mobility

- Zirkee is better in this system than Hojlund who is abysmal and should be benched.

We need to buy a left wing back, another mobile CM with good defensive abilities, another AM and a centre forward. Hjulmand would be the ideal CM signing, Dibling would be sensible addition if we cant get Cunha. Gyokeres i think is nailed on for the summer and as for left wing back thats down to our scouts and if Amorim has right player in mind. Kerkhez comes to mind but im sure others will be in for him too.

 

[Buster15]

That Amad hat trick covers a multitude of problems for us. Yesterday I am seriously starting to worry that yes, we could be in a relegation fight.

I've seen matches where we've lost many times and you could pinpoint players not trying hard enough but I didn't really see a lack of effort last night more systemic issues with what our players are doing with and without the ball.

I am not sure if I am more pissed off with Hojlund for still not being able to control the bal in hold up play OR for the rest of his teammates still booting the ball towards him.

I never thought he was an out and out target man and yet we continue to lump the ball to him

Agreed.
Obviously lumping the ball up to Hojlund and expecting something positive from that is pretty silly. He has a number of limitations and holding the ball up and laying it off is certainly one of them.

Yesterday could have easily gone very badly wrong had it not been for Amad.

Nevertheless a win is a win and for some reason we rarely play well against Southampton.

And I don't necessarily buy the tiredness excuse. 4 days since we played should be enough rest for elite athletes.

 

[McTerminator]

I do think us United fans viewed it through a specific lens of 'oh here we go again' type PTSD. It wasn't as bad as it felt, if that game was during the Fergie era where yes we had plenty of tough games against minnows then it would feel very different.

As you say we had plenty of big chances and in the end we did what we needed to do. We're just desperate as a fan base to put a 90 minute performance together where we comfortably defeat someone.

Agree with this, but I think that is already changing.

I was watching with some family and at halftime one of them wanted to turn it off.

I pointed to the Arsenal game as a reason to see it through as it’s another one where you could easily have turned it off when the penalty was awarded.

Glad we kept watching both times!

 

[Maticmaker]

Well the 'theatre of dreams' lived up to its name for the last eight minutes..... at least.
Amad MOTM, but Onana had a shout for his fantastic saves in first half, and Zirtzee deserves a mention in dispatches, for his play up front, it was what change the tide of the match in our favour.

 

[RedRocket9908]

That performance last night up until the 80th minute was a disgrace, being outplayed for so long by a rubbish Southampton team on our own pitch is embarrasing.

Im happy for Amad getting his hattrick but if we play against Brighton the way we did last night Brighton will have it won by halftime.

 

[LDUred]

This is so frustrating to watch because it is so predictable.

We're beginning games we ought to be winning playing 5-2-3. The opposition control the midfield because we're understaffed there.

Obviously when the other team start to sit back on a lead, like Saints did last night, then the balance starts to shift and the centre backs can step up a bit and it becomes 3-4-3. Yes, then it works, but only after our goalkeeper has kept us in the game by making two or three world class saves. We should have lost last night.

Amorim must address that issue of us getting swamped in midfield because Brighton will be doing exactly the same early on and are a much better team. Someone must step into midfield and stop us from sitting so deep.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Agreed.
Obviously lumping the ball up to Hojlund and expecting something positive from that is pretty silly. He has a number of limitations and holding the ball up and laying it off is certainly one of them.

Yesterday could have easily gone very badly wrong had it not been for Amad.

Nevertheless a win is a win and for some reason we rarely play well against Southampton.

And I don't necessarily buy the tiredness excuse. 4 days since we played should be enough rest for elite athletes.

Think people get blinkered by the 9-0 win and forget Southampton were playing pretty well in that game. They were down to ten men very early and it was when there were no fans.

 

[simplyared]

I'll let you in on a little secret: When you buy a PC in Denmark, the Ø's, Æ's, and Å's are pre-installed on the keyboard for you

On my keyboard I've got Ö,Ä and Å. Depends on where you live.
As in KIM KÄLLSTRÖM (played for Arsenal)
and ERLING HÅLAND (he changed the spelling to HAALAND in 2018)
Björn Borg and Ludvig Åberg (golfer) are other sportsmen who have those letters in their names. They are also pronounced a lot differently than you would think.

 

[The Boy]

I do think us United fans viewed it through a specific lens of 'oh here we go again' type PTSD.

I think all football fans, regardless of which team they support do this! We always presume the worst is going to happen.

I think when watching Brighton, I'm more comfortable and relaxed (not happy) when we're 1-0 down as the worst has happened. I am most edgy when we're 1-0 up as the I know in my heart the worst is coming!

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

People really have short memories. Why are we back talking about the flaws of the formation when we’ve had the Arsenal and Liverpool games literally last week showing how it works? It’s been like a decade since we’ve been able to play at Anfield the way we did.

We were flooded in midfield because both of our midfielders couldn’t run and were absolutely knackered. Ugarte couldn’t run from the first minute. I said that in the matchday thread and Amorim said it after, but it was pretty obvious for anyone who has been watching football for more than 17 minutes. Same for Mainoo. Maybe he should’ve started with Collyer but it’s hindsight and had Collyer started against a fresh Southampton, he might have made one or two costly mistakes and that would be disastrous. Easiest thing is to sit in our armchairs and be wise after the fact.

Team was exhausted, late to every ball, spaces were really big in between the lines because of the players not closing in fast enough, and the Saints were pressing us man-to-man.

Once we took out our exhausted midfielders and brought on Zirkzee so the balls would stick, the game changed. Then Southampton who ran like mad yesterday and pressed well eventually tired. I said at half time we would win. It started becoming clear 55+, and by the 70th min they were holding on to dear life. It was a matter of time.

We can’t build anything long term if our fanbase overreacts to every game, whether positive or negative. Be patient, this takes time, but there are a lot of good signs there.

 

[Eric's-collar]

The problem against Southampton in the first half was Juric effectively deconstructed our formation with a very simple piece of positional play.

He put their wingers very high and wide, giving us two options, which we kindly demonstrated on each wing:

1. Our WB (Amad) continues to take up attacking positions, leaving the WCB (Yoro) totally exposed
2. Our WB (Maz) responds by sitting very deep as if in a back 5, leaving acres of space in front of him and making the two CMs look like they can't cover enough ground.

It's fairly basic and worrying that Amorim doesn't have a solution not only in his own head but drilled into the team by now. It's harsh to over-analyse failings from Mainoo/Ugarte or Yoro as a result.

For what it's worth, there is an answer, and we've seen 3421 teams do it just fine. Either

1. You choose defensive WBs, let them sit back to contain those wingers, and the central CB steps out to effectively serve as a third (defensive) midfielder, allowing the two CMs to cover wider spaces and prevent that huge gap in front of the WB. Effectively in defensive phases you become a 4321.
2. You choose attacking WBs, and one of your CMs drops deep to become an auxiliary CB in defensive phases, allowing the WCBs to push wider confident that they still have two men behind them to cover if they are beaten 1-on-1. Again, effectively a 4321 in defensive phases, just with different players dropping into those positions.

It depends on which players you want to put on the pitch. But you need to pick one approach or the other on both sides, because the CBs need to know which approach they're taking - they can't switch from one style to the other depending on which side of the pitch the ball is on.

Should give Amorim a phone call and let him know where he's going wrong.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Good teams find a way to win on off days (we are not a good team), thankfully tonight they got it going at the end and got the W because of the subs and Amad's brilliance.. Only positive I can take is we do not seem to give up like we did with past managers.

Yoro sure got a Prem wake up call last night. Can't believe he was not pulled. He will get better.

Lastly, that Soton winger sure has some pace and skill, who the feck is that guy? I guess I have not seen them play much at all this year.

 

[Brightonian]

That's a confusing post. Especially because you use 1 and 2 twice!

Yes I can see it's confusingly structured reading it back. To explain:

Because clearly we had not prepared for it in advance, what their wingers did forced our wingbacks into one of two traps, the first pair of numbered options in my post. On our right side, we walked into trap number 1. On our right side, we walked into trap number 2.

There are two ways to set up our system to avoid walking into these traps, the second pair of numbered options in my post. But (disagreeing with your response), before the game you do have to pick one or the other. Because you need to be able to slip into a 4321 formation in the defensive phase. One way of doing it has your wingbacks become part of the back four, and a CB step out into midfield. One way of doing it has your wingbacks stay high as part of the '3', and a CM step back into defence.

I don't agree you can mix and match, because you want that change of shape from attacking to defensive phase to happen the same regardless of which flank the ball is coming down. Otherwise one switch of play from the opposition and you're in total chaos.


To be clear I don't see any of this as a fatal flaw in the system - I like the system and believe Amorim can make it work (and has already, in some games). I just think the reason we weren't as good as we should have been in this game, especially the first half, was down to a failure to prepare strategically, not the weakness of individual players as the Yoro/Mainoo performance threads would have you believe.