[GM K]

I mean it's fair to praise the defending but when you sacrifice so much of your attack to do so, how impressive is it particularly when they had some good opportunities to score which we were fortunate to get away with. In fairness do agree that Bailly was good and general principal that defending can go unappreciated.

I felt that we got the balance wrong, it's fine to set up to counter but we went too far to the point where we just didn't have any way out. I know it's popular to bash Fellaini but and it's not particularly his fault more his use, but I think the way he was deployed was questionable. He was allowed to be the most advanced again but he simply isn't good enough on the ball meaning we couldn't get the ball to the attackers. We needed him to sit deeper and maybe have Herrera be the one to be further up the pitch or even if we wanted to be bold let Mikhi play centrally in place of him although he was quite poor as well. However the danger with him deeper is that he's not great at marking/covering his ground and seems to be more effective as the spare man in defence.

Big shame is that Martial/Rashford clearly could have caused them problems and we didn't try to change anything to make it happen. A draw is an ok result in the end, especially with the injuries but did feel we were overly cautious. As I said it's one thing to defend with 11 men and offer little threat for most the game, another to be defensively sound but have the ability to hit the counter hard.

Good points.

The main problem yesterday was not the tactics, if you ask me.

It was the execution by the mid-fielders and some in the defence.

To soak in attacks and counter requires the ability to retain possession the few times you get the ball and also the ability to find through passes that can set your quick attackers in play. Carrick, Fellaini and Mikhi failed in this regard. Mikhi particularly was disappointing and losing balls, not keeping it, etc have little to do with where you are asked to play on the pitch.

I also think it would have been a disaster to place Fellaini right in front of the back four. He's too clumsy and erratic for such a position when you are defending deep. He could easily have caused a penalty or free kicks in dangerous areas.

All in all, in as much as Jose needs to tweak his tactics at times, I think our primary problem this season has been more of failure of personnel. Some players simply lost form or failed to actualize their potential too many times. If you look at the whole season, players like Martial, Mikhi, Lingard, Mata, Dermian, Shaw, Smalling, Jones, and even Pogba, have been way too inconsistent. At the highest level of football, you need most of your players to be at top level for at least 90% of the season. Most of our players have been blowing hot and cold all season.

 

[Insanity]

That's fair enough, its natural to begin to normalise to that style of football over time. Reading the forum you've managed to do that quicker than most.

My personal frustration is that we still need to spend a fortune to be a top side, because last night was further evidence that we've got a long way to go. A good side would have comfortably beaten you on that showing. We could still be playing now and it'd still be 0-0.

Would have been equally disappointed if I was a City fan as I was with our display last night, albeit for different reasons. It once again showed that you need a lot of improvements before you can be back challenging. Also, your managers inability to break down dogged teams has been a constant theme, which again showed no signs of changing.

I like your attack, Jesus is a baller and I like Sane very much too. De Bruyne is an excellent player and Sterling can be decent. You need to add another goal scorer in there somewhere to complete the attack.

The major worry is backs and your central midfielders. This is the worst set of CM's Pep has managed and the area needs major improvement. Shame that Gundogan is injury prone, or he could have been a very useful player. You need two mids, two excellent FB's and a CB (I like Stones and believe he would be much better next season if you can get a talented CM to partner him). Easier said than done, though. That's a whole lot of top players to buy in one window.

 

[Stacks]

Football fans these days only value attacking. SMH.

Whatever happened to the fine art of defence, the beauty of neutralising the most dangerous attacking threats in the world. The anticipation of through passes, the organisation that thwarts well thought out attacking plans, the alertness, positional nuance, courage and fighting spirit to required to play one man down at times to stop the opposition from scoring.

No wonder only attackers win the so called Balloon d'or titles and incredibly gifted defenders and goal keepers are ignored. When we discuss the greatest players ever, we mention the Maradonnas and ignore the Maldinis. We talk about the Ronaldos and don't mention the Zanettis.

Bailly was like the other end of the Messi stick yesterday. But sad world it is that ignores him.

Cryuff's invention is called Ticky Tacka, while Jose's masterclass is called 'parking the bus' a.k.a ugly football.

The world has become sad.

This match should be used for 'How to Defend Intelligently' classes around the world.

Depends on what position your team is in. We are going to have to get more than a point away vs Spurs and Arsenal. "The fine art of defence" display, will not get us in top four when we are chasing and our rivals are winning games for example. We are the chasers, therefore a plucky display is less productive. Had we been Chelsea, under Jose 2nd season, then this would be great as we would already have an 8 point lead

 

[iHicksy]

I guess people like to forget (or didn't watch) Fergie's last season where away from home we would camp out on the edge of our box and try and counter all game long. We just happened to have players more suited, be it through maturity or skillset for that setup at the time.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Context is such an under-appreciated concept in football.

 

[Eriku]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17810224

While you (not particularly you mate) can be discontent with the match yesterday, I don't really understand the constant need to rewrite the history about how heroic we'd been under Ferguson at all times. We haven't.

Check the stats, my friend. We had, what, 30 some per cent of the ball yesterday? The link you posted had us almost at 50 per cent. That was a horrendous match, but we at least tried a bit. You can count on ONE HAND the amount of times we made it into City's half in the 2nd half, as for the final third of the pitch, I can't really recall us getting there in the second half?

I'm not re-writing history, it's plain as fecking day that we never saw Fergie go quite as negative as Mourinho did yesterday.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Depends on what position your team is in. We are going to have to get more than a point away vs Spurs and Arsenal. "The fine art of defence" display, will not get us in top four when we are chasing and our rivals are winning games for example. We are the chasers, therefore a plucky display is less productive. Had we been Chelsea, under Jose 2nd season, then this would be great as we would already have an 8 point lead

City beat Barcelona in City, so if we were open we would have been thrashed. It was the perfect game plan bar nicking one at their end.

 

[Eriku]

We were actually unlucky not to win
Herrera missed by far the best chance of the night. It could have been a master class in smash and grab football.

Best chance of the night? Remember Agüero's miss from 2 yards? That cross to him on the far post from the left was also almost as good a chance as Herrera's.

We were just a single lapse of concentration away from losing, as they kept us pegged back. Yes, we showed tremendous discipline and great work rate, but a single moment of brilliance would see us lose. Hell, if Jesus had been a tiny bit more patient, he'd have stayed onside and scored as well.

 

[Ole90+3]

That's fair enough, its natural to begin to normalise to that style of football over time. Reading the forum you've managed to do that quicker than most.

My personal frustration is that we still need to spend a fortune to be a top side, because last night was further evidence that we've got a long way to go. A good side would have comfortably beaten you on that showing. We could still be playing now and it'd still be 0-0.

I'm not sure about that. I don't think you are giving the necessary credit to our midfield for their discipline in their positioning, and also for the impressive overall performance of our back 4.

Having said that, 2 good attacking full backs, who are able to bomb up and down the lines, I think you would have scored by being able to bombard our defence with dangerous crosses. Aguero is one of the best in the world at making near post runs to meet low crosses. Zabaleta and Kolarov are phenomenal crossers of the ball, however they didn't have the legs to make the runs in behind. David Silva was noticeably missed last night by your lot, there wasn't much creativity coming from the middle of the park; Yaya can only do so much against a jam packed midfield.

 

[John Johnson]

Calm down precious. The PL in its current inception has had 6 different winners how many different winners has la liga had in the same 25 years?

Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia, Atletico Madrid, Deportivo. A whole 1 fewer...

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia, Atletico Madrid, Deportivo. A whole 1 fewer...

Atletico - 2 times, before the 13/14 season last time was 95/96
Valencia - 2 times, last being 03/04
Deportivo - 1 time, 99/00

So much competition.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Check the stats, my friend. We had, what, 30 some per cent of the ball yesterday? The link you posted had us almost at 50 per cent. That was a horrendous match, but we at least tried a bit. You can count on ONE HAND the amount of times we made it into City's half in the 2nd half, as for the final third of the pitch, I can't really recall us getting there in the second half?

I'm not re-writing history, it's plain as fecking day that we never saw Fergie go quite as negative as Mourinho did yesterday.

Disagree. Away from home under Ferguson was always keeping it tight.

 

[Danillaco]

This team has more problems than I thought.

Throughout the season, a number of players have been very inconsistent and that has cost us many points. Yesterday's game was further proof. It was a time for Mikhi, Martial and Fellaini to really come to the party but they kept blowing hot and cold. Based entirely on what I have seen this season (massive inconsistency. Good today, average or poor tomorrow), I would sell the three. But you just feel Mikhi and Martial have a second and third gear they can shift into if they apply themselves (consistently).

The worrying thing is that there are others like that including some who didn't play yesterday. Darmien, Shaw, Lingard, Rooney, Smalling, Jones.

Jose was right, we'll need at least two windows to fix some of our problems.

Fellaini should be sold, agreed. But Mkhitharian and Martial? Never!

The armenian had a bad game yesterday, but he's our top scorer in EL and have put some amazing performances. Martial was sacrificed yesterday, played almost like Rb sometimes. The guy gave one for the team, and yet it's not enough.

 

[FCBarca]

It is exactly those miniscule budgets that make it difficult for any other Spanish team to have a chance at the title run-in where squad depth matters most unlike knock-out competitions. It was the individual brilliance of the coaches who managed the teams you named (Simeone, Emery) and the fact that they could get the team to do that with a small budget is creditable. La Liga still remains a two-team league; Atletico won in 13/14, Valencia before that in 04/05 - hardly an advert for competition is it?

Competitive enough to win in Europe

 

[Stacks]

City beat Barcelona in City, so if we were open we would have been thrashed. It was the perfect game plan bar nicking one at their end.

Really dude? City also drew at home with Liverpool and Spurs, as well as getting beat by Chelsea. They beat Arsenal 2-1.

 

[Ramshock]

Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia, Atletico Madrid, Deportivo. A whole 1 fewer...

Okay fair dues but yes im gonna bet on either Real or Barca every year.

 

[Eriku]

Disagree. Away from home under Ferguson was always keeping it tight.

Either you keep it tight, or you're gung-ho? There are degrees, and I can't say I've ever seen a Fergie side as content to stay in their own half like Mourinho did yesterday, and has done in tight spots throughout his career.

Whatever, gonna have to agree to disagree with people on this, clearly.

Ps. Love your username, Chris Morris ftw

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Competitive enough to win in Europe

Did you not read what I had written?

 

[misterredmist]

I thought Mourinho's tactics were good yesterday, unfortunately, our midfielders either got caught in possession or could not make a five yard pass to one another, nor thread anything through to Rashford. There was also a total lack of composure from the defence, where, all too often, they just blootered the ball out when they had time to assess and keep possession.

After 60 minutes, I thought we should ask the ref to put a bell in the ball for our lads, I knew it was going to be a long, agonising final 30 mins plus added.....

 

[Yorkeontop]

Because his conversion rate has been poor and that's not isolated to City but even with Los Albicelestes. He's working harder (And covering more ground) than any other season I've seen him and I have watched him since he was at Atletico - credit to Pep there. Guardiola has praised this effort but it's also why he sat the player on many occasions and preferred Gabriel Jesus ahead of him when healthy.

No idea who they will pursue for a #9 but there's no question that City's biggest weaknesses are fullbacks & a scoring forward. I have no doubt they will attempt to fill those needs this summer

I just can't see how they can improve on a striker who scores 30 goals whilst having a "poor" conversion rate. The same player that stats say is the deadliest striker in EPL history therefore suggesting a "poor" conversion rate is not the norm for him. And he is still very much in his prime. Can you see them improving on this player?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

In a two-team league.

Ouch!

 

[ghagua]

Check the stats, my friend. We had, what, 30 some per cent of the ball yesterday? The link you posted had us almost at 50 per cent. That was a horrendous match, but we at least tried a bit. You can count on ONE HAND the amount of times we made it into City's half in the 2nd half, as for the final third of the pitch, I can't really recall us getting there in the second half?

I'm not re-writing history, it's plain as fecking day that we never saw Fergie go quite as negative as Mourinho did yesterday.

I simply do not understand how people can defend that shite yesterday. I am happy with a point, but our attacking intent was so pathetic. I can understand when we get out classed by a team like Barcelona, but this was City for fecks sake.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I guess people like to forget (or didn't watch) Fergie's last season where away from home we would camp out on the edge of our box and try and counter all game long. We just happened to have players more suited, be it through maturity or skillset for that setup at the time.

True. We played to win whatever it took depending on the circumstances

 

[ghagua]

Cannot believe that Mourinho is blaming Aguero of over reacting instead of stringing up Fellaini. Of course he is going to over react if he has a chance to get an advantage for his team, but why the feck is Fellaini so fecking stupid.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Such a disappointing performance. We seem far too interested in sitting back little frightened kittens and it made us suffer in attack.

 

[Stacks]

I guess people like to forget (or didn't watch) Fergie's last season where away from home we would camp out on the edge of our box and try and counter all game long. We just happened to have players more suited, be it through maturity or skillset for that setup at the time.

True. We played to win whatever it took depending on the circumstances

In our final Fergie season, we scored 7 away vs Liverpool, Chelsea and City, winning all 3. Season before beat Aresenal 2-1 away, drew 3:3 away with Chelsea, won 3-1 away vs Spurs (4th that season). So we weren't super defensive, play for a draw, plucky, as the automatic go to, away vs our rivals. Yes there were games when we were under the cosh as we had the crappest midfield I can recall, but it wasn't our automatic tactic to just let our opponents dominate us.

 

[Fully Fledged]

When did this happen?

I can think of one? The shot from Aguero that he caught? The fact he caught it made it a bit special but I don't think any PL keeper would have actually conceded from that shot. What other world class saves are you thinking of?

So you couldn't find fault with the rest of my post.

The facts are that they had 19 shots to our 3 more than 6 times as many. 6 shots on target to our 1 6 times as many. 69% possession to our 31% (they 69'd us).

BBC's touch map for the second half showed that we had one touch inside their penalty area, that was on the edge of the box down by the corner flag.

When we have done similar to other sides this season the vast majority of people on here have said that we battered the team and were seriously unlucky not to get the win. The same people should be big enough to own up when the reverse happens.

At the end of the day they destroyed us and we were lucky to get away with a point.

Now there were good reasons for us being so poor. We are missing half of our first 11. I thought that Pogba was a massive miss last night. Both for his energy in midfield and his ability to play a pass through the back line of the opposition setting Rashford away on one of his runs.

It was a tough day at the office and I'm glad that we managed to get the point.

 

[Miscemayl]

I am sure if we were not missing 4 of our starters, Jose would've used another tactic and gone for it more.

All these ranting about our negativity seems to completely ignore the injuries, fatigues and the fixture lists.

Would you really rather us go for it and lose? Or maybe burn more of our players out with end to end football and then hope they can go again on Sunday, and then again Thursday?

Jose did the pragmatic thing, we are now in control of our destiny for top 4 and put extra pressure on Liverpool knowing they can't afford to slip up now.

It's a good result

 

[Hugh Jass]

I simply do not understand how people can defend that shite yesterday. I am happy with a point, but our attacking intent was so pathetic. I can understand when we get out classed by a team like Barcelona, but this was City for fecks sake.

City beat Barcelona.

 

[MemphisDepay]

So you couldn't find fault with the rest of my post.

The facts are that they had 19 shots to our 3 more than 6 times as many. 6 shots on target to our 1 6 times as many. 69% possession to our 31% (they 69'd us).

BBC's touch map for the second half showed that we had one touch inside their penalty area, that was on the edge of the box down by the corner flag.

When we have done similar to other sides this season the vast majority of people on here have said that we battered the team and were seriously unlucky not to get the win. The same people should be big enough to own up when the reverse happens.

At the end of the day they destroyed us and we were lucky to get away with a point.

Now there were good reasons for us being so poor. We are missing half of our first 11. I thought that Pogba was a massive miss last night. Both for his energy in midfield and his ability to play a pass through the back line of the opposition setting Rashford away on one of his runs.

It was a tough day at the office and I'm glad that we managed to get the point.

A bit of an exaggeration there to put it mildly.

They absolutely dominated the ball, the territory and the efforts on goal but they in no way 'destroyed' us. If De Gea had made 5 or 6 great saves and they'd had a number of clear cut opportunities and missed them then I'd agree with you. They did put quite a lot of pressure on in the second half but I never felt like they were totally all over us and that a goal was inevitable. If that's City destroying teams then I hope they continue in that vein. They had less than a handful of what I would class as real chances.

 

[Polite Poster]

I just can't see how they can improve on a striker who scores 30 goals whilst having a "poor" conversion rate. The same player that stats say is the deadliest striker in EPL history therefore suggesting a "poor" conversion rate is not the norm for him. And he is still very much in his prime. Can you see them improving on this player?

I don't care about the stats I just see Aguero missing many chances every game.

Gabriel Jesus is an improvement, both in finishing and all around play.

Whilst he came from an offside position last night he got one chance and it was in the back of the net.

Aguero's days as first choice at City are over.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So you couldn't find fault with the rest of my post.

The facts are that they had 19 shots to our 3 more than 6 times as many. 6 shots on target to our 1 6 times as many. 69% possession to our 31% (they 69'd us).

BBC's touch map for the second half showed that we had one touch inside their penalty area, that was on the edge of the box down by the corner flag.

When we have done similar to other sides this season the vast majority of people on here have said that we battered the team and were seriously unlucky not to get the win. The same people should be big enough to own up when the reverse happens.

At the end of the day they destroyed us and we were lucky to get away with a point.

Now there were good reasons for us being so poor. We are missing half of our first 11. I thought that Pogba was a massive miss last night. Both for his energy in midfield and his ability to play a pass through the back line of the opposition setting Rashford away on one of his runs.

It was a tough day at the office and I'm glad that we managed to get the point.

Nope. But it's kind of an important point. De Gea had one save that was anything other than routine. And that wasn't even particularly tough.

They had heaps of possession but were generally limited to shots from outside the box. We arguably missed the two easiest chances of the match.

 

[ghagua]

City beat Barcelona.

So what?

 

[GM K]

Fellaini should be sold, agreed. But Mkhitharian and Martial? Never!

The armenian had a bad game yesterday, but he's our top scorer in EL and have put some amazing performances. Martial was sacrificed yesterday, played almost like Rb sometimes. The guy gave one for the team, and yet it's not enough.

I never meant they should be sold. It's called emphasising for effect. I would sell them IF I based their assessment only on this season's performances but I can't do that. You seem to miss the bit where I said they obviously have second and third gears.

 

[Fully Fledged]

A bit of an exaggeration there to put it mildly.

They absolutely dominated the ball, the territory and the efforts on goal but they in no way 'destroyed' us. If De Gea had made 5 or 6 great saves and they'd had a number of clear cut opportunities and missed them then I'd agree with you. They did put quite a lot of pressure on in the second half but I never felt like they were totally all over us and that a goal was inevitable. If that's City destroying teams then I hope they continue in that vein. They had less than a handful of what I would class as real chances.

That was more down to a bad day at the office for Aquero than anything we did.

It was the same type of stats that we had against West Brom and Hull yet people said that we battered them without being able to finish.

The fact that we only managed 1 touch on the edge of their area in the whole of the second half shows how much they dominated the game.

Edit: Maybe Battered would have been a better term than destroyed. after all a definition of batter is to hit repeatedly with hard blows. That's pretty much what they did.

 

[GM K]

Depends on what position your team is in. We are going to have to get more than a point away vs Spurs and Arsenal. "The fine art of defence" display, will not get us in top four when we are chasing and our rivals are winning games for example. We are the chasers, therefore a plucky display is less productive. Had we been Chelsea, under Jose 2nd season, then this would be great as we would already have an 8 point lead

I get your point and it's valid but when you have such massive injury crisis and your team has played 18 games more than Liverpool this season, and you have crucial European games in a few days time and you are away to a top four team, and your midfield is nearly empty and those available there happen to be having a poor day, then you might as well defend with your lives. In that case, yes, I can give them stick for not attacking but I have to also appreciate the defending. Also, in such a keenly contested race, a point away to your direct rival, might just make all the difference. Who knows?

 

[Yorkeontop]

I don't care about the stats I just see Aguero missing many chances every game.

Gabriel Jesus is an improvement, both in finishing and all around play.

Whilst he came from an offside position last night he got one chance and it was in the back of the net.

Aguero's days as first choice at City are over.

So you telling me this not yet proven kid who just left teenagehood 2 weeks ago is better than Aguero right now?

 

[Fully Fledged]

Nope. But it's kind of an important point. De Gea had one save that was anything other than routine. And that wasn't even particularly tough.

They had heaps of possession but were generally limited to shots from outside the box. We arguably missed the two easiest chances of the match.

You have to take into account who the chances fell to if you are going on about the ease of a chance. Most of there's fell to Aguero probably the most consistent striker over the last 6 seasons of the Premier League while our main chance fell to Ander who has scored once in the league this season.

We played that game again 100 times and Aguero would score that chance that hit the post 90 times while Ander might put that header away once or twice.

We were not only lucky because they missed chances but because of the quality of the player who missed the chances.

Now I'm not having a go at Ander he's a good midfielder but he is not a prolific goal scorer.

 

[Peanut Butter]

Barcelona, Real

A third team has been in the CL Finals twice in recent years, a fourth won the Europa league back to back recently, a 5th easily ousted United from the Europa before that, a 6th face United in the Semis of Europa coming up and most with miniscule budgets compared to those in the Premiership...but sure, a two-team league

It is a two team league these days though. Everyone knows it. And why are you so obsessed with Man City? It's weird.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Best chance of the night? Remember Agüero's miss from 2 yards? That cross to him on the far post from the left was also almost as good a chance as Herrera's.

We were just a single lapse of concentration away from losing, as they kept us pegged back. Yes, we showed tremendous discipline and great work rate, but a single moment of brilliance would see us lose. Hell, if Jesus had been a tiny bit more patient, he'd have stayed onside and scored as well.

Aguero's chance was miles harder. Ball was whipped in at pace and he had to time it just right to escape his marker, and still beat De Gea at his near post, with De Gea at his near post. Herrera incomparison was utterly unmarked and had all the time to direct his header. Even the chance Bravo gifted us first half was superior to Ageuro's chance. And we really shouldn't be counting offside goals as chances.