[Shiva87]

We have to find a way to best utilize Pogba. Its his team now and we have to organize the team around him . He is world class but as we saw in the Euros he is wasted when he plays too far back in midfield.
I also think that its time to bring back Smalling, his physical presence and ability to bring the ball forward will enable Pogba to play further forward.
I am still hoping that Pogba and Mkhitaryan will form a bond leading to smart skillful interplay that will help to set up Zlatan and Rashford.
I always thought that Wellback as a local lad was over-rated, bambi on ice, however, Rashford looks like the real deal.
Rooney was ok today but he still does not look for his striker, at least not in open play, moving him to right wing in the 2nd half at least made him have to look for other options besides his trademark long pass to the said wing.

Watching the replay, all he did was try and cross it with the top of his foot every time, regardless of where he was on the right hand side. It was quite predictable.

Do think he was one of the switched on players today though. Blame for this loss lies elsewhere (Mou + Lingard + Blind + Pogba)

 

[CS@SG]

Yeah but when Inter did it they had a level of self-belief and confidence in the plan. Daley Blind was hardly Walter Samuel today, you know what I mean? Scared mate. Half a dozen of em got frit.

Isn't part of the manager, coaches job is to make the players confident, fearless?

 

[JaffyJoe]

I'd say Mourinho made two mistakes going into this match.

1) Playing Lingard and Mkhitaryan. This one I've got no problem with, as it's just him still learning his players. I can definitely see why he played them. Lingard for his workrate and pace, which is what you want hitting a Guadiola team on the break (plus he does tend to play better in the big games). And Mkhitaryan to basically do the same as Mata normally does, but with more pace. I'd say Mourinho learnt more about these players from this match than he has in the past month. Lingard is a good little player, but he simply doesn't have the quality to be first choice for a team looking to do what we are. And Mkhitaryan has so far this season and pre-season been great off the bench, but he's struggled when starting. He's also historically been a slow starter at new clubs. Combined with the international break and him getting injured, in hindsight it wasn't the best match for him to make his first competitive start.

2) Playing Fellaini and Pogba in a two man midfield against a team that will look to dominate possession and has the quality to make it count. This is one where I do think Mourinho simply fecked up, and hopefully he'll learn from it going forward. It's a midfield which might work against most teams, but it's simply not solid enough against better teams and I for one don't think we'll ever get the best out of Pogba in a two man midfield. He's not someone who will dominate and control the flow of games, which is what you want in that position. Rather, he's someone who you want injecting himself into games at the right moments and creating havoc. Don't get me wrong, he'll always need to do his fair share of the 'dirty' work in midfield (both in possession and defensively), but I just don't know if he'll ever reach his potential in a two man midfield.

Spot on here mate.

Herrera needs t start for me or Morgan with Pogba. Felliani just sin't the required quality for us even in the games we have won he 's done well but I know when I am watching an inferior player and he is one. Like you say for a team like City we needed that extra man in midfield. Blind is such a class cb but him, Pogba and Herrera would be my midfield 3.

Add one more WAYNE MARK ROONEY. He's passed it now and just really hurts the team. Slow, sluggish, makes the wrong decisions, poor touches, Slows up play. He can't start for us anymore.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't think that's right. They weren't comfortable anytime after the first 40 mins. They did deserve to win because of how they started the game, but by the end, we had enough 'situations' to have used them better. Some of the shots Zlatan took were just unnecessary. Plus, Jose missed a big trick with benching Martial. The boy showed last season that he is made for these kind of games. If he had to bench Martial, it should have been for Rashford (not Lingard).

40 minutes of absolute domination and a level second half where they came closer to scoring despite us being the ones needing to score, is being comfortably better.

I agree about Martial.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

They weren't wrong. We just had 3 players failing to implement them which was costly. Mikhi, Rooney and Lingard were supposed to lead the high press to stop City building from the back and to hold on to the ball and give us outlets whenever Fellaini and Pogba for back the ball. They were woeful at both. All three were moving slower than Mata carrying a knock, allowing City to build attack after attack with a head of steam in acres of Space at the back. To top it all none of them could keep the ball.

I agree that they were awful..the bit I'm not sure of is the fact that they were supposed to lead the high press. I haven't seen Mourinho's post match interviews so maybe that is what they were supposed to do. But the fact that none of them did, made me wonder if we were happy for City to have the ball in their own half and absorb the pressure.

 

[NK86]

Well, they had the lead, they didn't have to exert full control anymore. And still they looked more cohesive and organized going forward.

They didn't need to attack but they still needed to control the tempo, which they didn't because we didn't allow them. As I said, players with their ability will kill you if you give them the kind of respect we showed them the first half.

 

[Alex Styles]

That's not how it works. It's about which manager gets the best out of his players in a system that suits. Case in point - Leicester last season.

Yes I agree. I was just trying to make a point that on paper we have the better team

 

[NK86]

They weren't wrong. We just had 3 players failing to implement them which was costly. Mikhi, Rooney and Lingard were supposed to lead the high press to stop City building from the back and to hold on to the ball and give us outlets whenever Fellaini and Pogba for back the ball. They were woeful at both. All three were moving slower than Mata carrying a knock, allowing City to build attack after attack with a head of steam in acres of Space at the back. To top it all none of them could keep the ball.

What makes you think those three were asked to press. The tactics seemed clear. Let City have the ball around the half way line and then try to counter them. However, Lingard and Mkhitariyan were absolutely woeful today. Didn't seem to win any take ons and just giving the ball away time after time.

 

[Shiva87]

40 minutes of absolute domination and a level second half where they came closer to scoring despite us being the ones needing to score, is being comfortably better.

I agree about Martial.

I guess, it's easier to disregard the first 40 mins because of the competitiveness of the remaining game. It would have been comfortable if City did not look stretched in most of the game. But that's not true. It was close, and we paid for our lackluster first half. Teams have off days, this was just a bad half.

 

[#07]

Isn't part of the manager, coaches job is to make the players confident, fearless?

Yeah it is. I am surprised by the bottle jobs today. It was like, faced with a big team, many regressed as players. Maybe some of them as psychologically broken?

 

[CS@SG]

In terms of concentration he's clearly talking about Lingard and Blind. Blind was the most at fault for both goals while Lingard was totally out of the game bar two instances of bad control and a hand ball.

Playing Mkhitaryan on the wing was tactically the wrong decision but he wasn't a total failure. But you can't have players coming short on the half way line to get the ball, with three opponents surrounding them at times, and expect miracles. For that to work Valencia either had to be free to bomb past or Rooney and Fellaini had to be more mobile in supporting him, and as we know neither are mobile.

For 1st goal, what could Blind has done instead? He saw Ihlea lay off the ball, he was at the direction to receive the ball but kdb was a lot faster. I would blame Bailly for not challenging Ihlea to make it difficult for him. And Pgba was guarding kdb and he just back off.

 

[ants7]

Thanks for sharing. Jose said pretty much the same as we all think here.

I'm not at all concerned with the result though. Yes, losing to City is always hard to take but I think that our team has a lot of potential. As we saw in the 2nd half. As Jose said, certain players did not perform and I agree. Pogba was one of the biggest disappointments, I have to say.

Roll on next fixture. Pep won the fight, but let's see who wins the battle. Miles to go yet.

Also - find it baffling how most of the forum before seemed terrified to learn that Miki might be injured and can't play. After the match - everyone's very smart and say that playing him was a mistake. Bah.

 

[Magnus]

What game have you been watching?

It used to be great midfielders in our team like Robson,Keane,Scholes,Moses,Whiteside,Crerand,Edwards aso aso. Fellaini is the worst centremid I´ve EVER seen.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Deserve failure when we start Lingard, Rooney and Fellaini over Martial, Rashford and Schneiderlin.

why mention Rooney and not mkhitaryan, when Rooney looked twice the player then mkhitaryan today.

 

[Magnus]

Slow as feck, elbowing all over the place, and technique as a fecking frog. feck OFF OUT OF OUR MIDFIELD, SEE THE feckING LIGHT JOSE

 

[JustinC00]

Is it really too much to ask for these refs to get the biggest decisions of games correct?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They weren't wrong. We just had 3 players failing to implement them which was costly. Mikhi, Rooney and Lingard were supposed to lead the high press to stop City building from the back and to hold on to the ball and give us outlets whenever Fellaini and Pogba for back the ball. They were woeful at both. All three were moving slower than Mata carrying a knock, allowing City to build attack after attack with a head of steam in acres of Space at the back. To top it all none of them could keep the ball.

I'm not sure what to make of Jose's implementation of his tactical ideas if that was the plan. It appeared to me to be a case of us trying to narrow the space and playing hard workers who will graft.

 

[Magnus]

Rooney showed passion. Good lad

 

[Gasolin]

but who do you play at the base of the 3?
Carrick? i think he would have been run ragged today.
Schniderlin? maybe if he could regain his southapton form, but so far at united hasn't seemed the same player
Blind? wasn't great today, but has genrally been sensational since xmas, making all his doubters(myself been one of them) seem silly.

i just don't think we have an obvious DM in the squad

Herrera like today? He was good in that role and he pushed the whole team further up on the pitch. That was important to get the ball back.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Anyone needing some good cheering up head over to the Rangers forum . Place makes blue moon look like a pride and prejudice discussion forum.

 

[Freak]

People really have issues with Fellaini. He was good today and been brilliant the past few games.

 

[sunama]

Hope he didn't name the players... too early in the season for that

Well, given that Miki and Lingard were taken off, it's fair to say that those 2 were the players he was referring to.

 

[legball]

In my opinion, it was a game of two managers, one with a clear way of playing, the other, trying to adapt to the one with a plan, but the thing is, Mourinho didn't even clearly try to adapt to City, he was torn between doing it his way (would have been perceived as negative) or doing it "the United way" and that was the principal reason we lost the game, we didn't look like a team that had a clear plan, this was even more evident in the second half when we started playing long balls, something LVG was slaughtered for. I don't want a Manchester United team to resort to long balls in any game, for any reason.

We lacked organization, energy and cohesion, and the players he picked to replace the previous 2 starters didn't help matters. Bizzare to start Mhiki after the injury he suffered, Mata was available, can handle pressing, it was also a stupid decision to bench Martial and not put Rashford in his place, Lingard should not start in place of Martial under any circumstance. Rashford in place of Martial would have been a better decision in my opinion.

Then, going forward, I still think we're better off with 3 midfielders, all our midfielders are better suited to that system, there's no point signing a player for £90m and forcing him to do something he has never done in his career, this has the feeling of another LVG-Di Maria situation, of course, Pogba should have done better, as the formation is not an excuse for going missing in a game of this magnitude. Going forward, we have to do 4-3-3. If we're going to insist on playing Pogba in a midfield 2, his partner has to be someone that can control a game, with Fellaini (he was good again) & Pogba, we can't do that, and against big teams, it'll cost you, it cost us today.

Having said all that, there's still 34 games to go, and we're going to challenge, but there's a lot of work to do, and players have to step it up.

 

[PlayerOne]

In the last three years we would have folded after that first 30 minutes and we didn't, we actually came back and had a good second-half. That's what we should take away from the game, IMO. There's fire in the team again!

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Herrera like today? He was good in that role and he pushed the whole team further up on the pitch. That was important to get the ball back.

Playing Herrera thier kind of reminds me of when Kroos tries to do it for Madrid or Germany, he can do an ok job their, but your asking him to ignore his natural attacking tendencies, and occationy you get taken to the cleaners for trying it.

maybe Herrera can become a DM, like Blind has slowely become a center back, but think if we are gonna go down that route their will be some rocky times why he truely adapts his game to the position

 

[RedPnutz]

Never feels great to lose a match, especially a derby. Thus I can understand the overreacting.

But seriously, people need to stopping trying to blame someone. There's no need for finger pointing or someone to Take the blame.

It is a sport, a game. There will alway be wins and losses.

I don't see what was wrong with jose's tactics. Lingard and Mhiki just seemed to be out of rhythm and a little fazed by the occasion. City had a day where all of their guys turned up and clicked, like the time we were battered 3-0 by Arsenal in the first 15; and the time we battered Roma 7-1.

It was a good match. The dynamics kept shifting and you could see the manager's tactical changes within the match. Some fans complained that it was City taking the foot off the gas that allowed us to come forward in the second half. I see it as Pep saw our rising momentum at the end of the first half plus the substitutions that forced him to take a step back.

The reality is that I do think that City do have the better players on average. As a team Utd looks like a force to be reckoned with.

Just like Pep, Mourinho is one of the most consistent managers around. Barring injuries, we will be up there.

Whilst we want to win everything, this season the PL is pretty great for neutrals.

 

[ChaddyP]

People will blame the loss on certain individuals today, but that's wasn't the problem, in my opinion. Yes, players like Lingard and Mkhitaryan weren't great, but the formation did not help, and was the reason we lost the game today. Had we started with a 433, even with Lingard and Mkhitaryan, I'm confident we wouldn't have lost the game today.

Formation is one thing, but they both player terrible, couldn't hold on to the ball, got brushed off easy when they did control it, and even after they were able to do that they just passed it back to the opposition. Nightmare scenario for Jose where we was obviously counting on them to help with the counter and peg back City's press

 

[ZDwyr]

Slow as feck, elbowing all over the place, and technique as a fecking frog. feck OFF OUT OF OUR MIDFIELD, SEE THE feckING LIGHT JOSE

You need help mate. Maybe some glasses.

 

[Catt]

Predicted we'd struggle and we did. Still disappointed we lost.

 

[vibe]

City easily look like the best team in the league right now.

Positives are we easily look the second best. That's a huge step up from where we were last season.

There's still a long way to go this season, it's within the realm of possibility that we end up on top, but the league is shaping up to be the Battle for Manchester again

God I missed those days. Even if we lost a gutting derby, I'm so excited for the rest of the season.

 

[freddie the red]

All over the place in the first 40 minutes but oddly should have gone in at two all and given City even more reason to go in depressed.
The two correct players went off IMHO and the second half was much better even if City did still have the better quality play and they could have had another couple on the break.
I was pleased with the 2nd half spirit and a draw would have been a decent result given that we should have had a pen when Bravo went in studs up against Rooney.
I don't agree with all the Rooney bashing on here, alright he's never going to regain the heights of his previous years but he's far from our poorest performer.
I always hate losing but 9 from 12 is OK and SAF made a habit of losing battles but winning wars.....lost plenty of games against so called top 6 rivals in seasons but still won the league when it happened.
Onwards and upwards and let's give Watford a going over.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Much better 2nd half than anything we saw last season, probably because the manager is much better.

That's very unlikely. Maybe you need the media to point out how much Mourinho has spend and add 100 million or something, but you could have noticed the arrival of some very good and expensive players yourself. Last season I've seen worse 2nd halves and better 2nd halves, but a poor tactical performance from the manager like in the 1st half I can't remember from last season.

 

[Blue always red]

Slow as feck, elbowing all over the place, and technique as a fecking frog. feck OFF OUT OF OUR MIDFIELD, SEE THE feckING LIGHT JOSE

Magnus are you okay, are you okay Magnus?
I will enjoy the taste of your tears when you realize Fellaini will be a mainstay in this team.

 

[sugar_kane]

a poor tactical performance from the manager like in the 1st half I can't remember from last season.

Arsenal away

 

[cantona7676]

We were set up today to counter what City were going to do rather than play to our own strengths and be very attacking.

Rashford should have started instead of Lingard, I can see why he started Miki but he was very poor probably a bad game for his first start, and we really need to play a 4-3-3 to take advantage of Paul Pogba's strengths as an attacking box to box player because today he looked lost.

 

[sunama]

Isn't part of the manager, coaches job is to make the players confident, fearless?

Jose did exactly that.
In the 2nd half we played with attack, power and pace. No fear.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Disappointing but I think it made it clear how much work we have to do to be truly competitive against top top teams again, man city look brilliant.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

First 40 minutes was shocking, but United could easily have went in 3-2 up at the break, Ibra's mis-kick with only a defender on the line was poor, the free header just before that also. Bravo was absolutely shocking, his challenge on Rooney was a penalty and a red card. United at least got going in the 2nd half, had it finished 2-2 that would have been about right, although Stones and Bravo were United's most creative influences at times with their horrendous passing.
It was 100MPH, didn't expect that, thought it might have been more cagey but must have been a great game for the neutrals, not so much from a United point of view.

 

[sunama]

In the last three years we would have folded after that first 30 minutes and we didn't, we actually came back and had a good second-half. That's what we should take away from the game, IMO. There's fire in the team again!

Indeed.
Do people remeber that 3-0 game at Arsenal?
Basically, the opponent scores 3 goals and we start to side/back pass and make no chances to the score a goal. Basically we accepted that we have lost and can't score 3 ore more goals. We gave up.

We did not play today, the way we would've played under LVG. Night and day difference.

 

[Maradona10]

Lack of pre season for pogba is showing, you can get through a couple of games without pre season on adrenaline after that it really kicks in and you need to get some form in. I hope he plays the feyonoord game. Mkhi also needs games, lost too much of the ball. Mourinho got tactics wrong, he probably trusted fellaini and Pogba too much and that backfired.
City had two class number 10 and we had none, either we should play pogba as a 10 or Mkhi but rooney there does not give us quality, he just gives us industry. Thought blind was at fault many times defensively and we should now see the reason mourinho wanted an experienced center back.
Mourinho himself got the team wrong, he tried to be oversmart and looked a bit of an idiot. He should have stuck to his formulae of mata and martial that had worked so well in last few games, instead he went for 2 players who dint have much game time and hence did not have a touch of the game. I guess had it worked, we would have called him a genius, so as a manager you win some and lose some. Problem is this will give city huge confidence, Mourinho will rip the players a new one and it will affect ours. Its good we have a game quickly. The home record will hurt mourinho, he would have wanted another record of not losing at home which he wont have now. City winning here, will give them confidence they can win anywhere, Right now, they are huge favourites and that is without even playing their best team. Gundogan, gabriel jesus and Aguero to come for them. It is a reality check for us, people were cocky but this will bring them down.
Positive here is that we probably even after playing badly should have drawn the game, we made chances and also should have had a penalty and city should have seen red for Bravo/otamendi. I hope mou can build the seige mentality from this shocking ref performance. Better team won on the day. Dust ourselves up and go for next game.

 

[PlayerOne]

Indeed.
Do people remeber that 3-0 game at Arsenal?
Basically, the opponent scores 3 goals and we start to side/back pass and make no chances to the score a goal. Basically we accepted that we have lost and can't score 3 ore more goals. We gave up.

We did not play today, the way we would've played under LVG. Night and day difference.

Night and day is spot on. I think we have a really chance at the league this season. And really, you win the league by beating the smaller teams.