[kouroux]

When he was being used right in a midfield 3 for us even last season he was one of the most complete and technically minded midfielders in the league let alone United.

That's why he's still rated so highly.

I can understand it at the time but it's been ages since he ever got back to some similar level and waiting for that system to happen isn't gonna work. We need players who are ready to perform at similar levels regardless of the system or their teammates. I'm not deluded and I know it sounds like mission impossible tbh in reality. I just Herrera is too system depended to ever be considered class.

 

[XdanielredX]

I can understand it at the time but it's been ages since he ever got back to some similar level and waiting for that system to happen isn't gonna work. We need players who are ready to perform at similar levels regardless of the system or their teammates. I'm not deluded and I know it sounds like mission impossible tbh in reality. I just Herrera is too system depended to ever be considered class.

It was last season not 5 years ago.

While i agree with not changing a system for a single player in this system not one single player with a few exceptions are playing well at all, the system is broken.

Also whether hw is system dependant or not, if we play a good system and it suits him he is immense, i think he needs a chance outside of van gaals influence

 

[kouroux]

It was last season not 5 years ago.

While i agree with not changing a system for a single player in this system not one single player with a few exceptions are playing well at all, the system is broken.

Also whether hw is system dependant or not, if we play a good system and it suits him he is immense, i think he needs a chance outside of van gaals influence

Yes it was only last season but still feels like a lifetime ago.
Everyone deserve a chance outside of LVG's influence. Herrera is an ok player, I don't rate highly but I can understand why some do.

 

[Havak]

I think that fact the result isn't what people wanted has blinkered the view of the game.

I couldn't watch live, and was working during the first half. So disappointed to see 1-1 at half time. Second half I browse redcafe (largely negative comments from usual suspects) and online live commentary (largely positive).

Later in the evening I saw the full match. We are in no way as shit as people make out. Sure ww could have done with some quality and composure at times, but overall the effort and play was not clueless. Really impressed by Martial and Rashford.

There is a difference between not being good enough and being shit.

Find it really strange that one comment was we had more attacking intent, but that left us open at the back. Shock horror.

Oh, I agree with some of your points. We were in no way terrible at all. I just think that a lot of people have overhyped how good we were. If we were that good, we'd have scored from open play. Personally, I think Liverpool had a couple of chances better than us, but Coutinho's goal was a bit against the run of play and out of nowhere. We needed that kind of quality on the night and didn't produce it.

I think the main reason people are saying this was a good performance is because of how bad we played in the first leg. They're unknowingly comparing it to that performance, which is always going to make this one seem much better than it was. Not a terrible one, just an above average one with a bit more huff and puff. To me though, that's the bare minimum we should produce all the time. Manchester United should strive for more. A lot more.

 

[Havak]

This is seriously worrying. Looking at the faces of our players when they entered the pitch there is not really one where I thought "alright he will do it".
Maybe Martial to a certain extent but beside him?

Say what you want about Rooney but at least he always has a Goal in him.

Yep. Rooney coming back and hitting the ground running will have a big say in whether we achieve anything this season I reckon.

 

[#07]

Oh, I agree with some of your points. We were in no way terrible at all. I just think that a lot of people have overhyped how good we were. If we were that good, we'd have scored from open play. Personally, I think Liverpool had a couple of chances better than us, but Coutinho's goal was a bit against the run of play and out of nowhere. We needed that kind of quality on the night and didn't produce it.

I think the main reason people are saying this was a good performance is because of how bad we played in the first leg. They're unknowingly comparing it to that performance, which is always going to make this one seem much better than it was. Not a terrible one, just an above average one with a bit more huff and puff. To me though, that's the bare minimum we should produce all the time. Manchester United should strive for more. A lot more.

Agreed. Last night was never a good performance.

We were average in the first half, and back to our usual poor form in the second.

Sturridge hit the bar, Henderson skied an easy chance from 12 yards, either of those go in and we go in 2-1 down at the break. Second half it got worse.

Yes, we attacked with some intent, but we weren't carving them open from open play. It was 'get it to Martial and hope he can skin Clyne'. That was the limit to our creativity.

That game plan worked about 10 times as effectively when we had Valencia doing it in 2012-13, when people were complaining about 'zombie football'.

Liverpoolisation is nearly complete. Expectations are now rock bottom.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Manchester United should strive for more. A lot more.

Problem is that the Name "Manchester United" alone does not win anything.

 

[sincher]

Agreed. Last night was never a good performance.

We were average in the first half, and back to our usual poor form in the second.

Sturridge hit the bar, Henderson skied an easy chance from 12 yards, either of those go in and we go in 2-1 down at the break. Second half it got worse.

Yes, we attacked with some intent, but we weren't carving them open from open play. It was 'get it to Martial and hope he can skin Clyne'. That was the limit to our creativity.

That game plan worked about 10 times as effectively when we had Valencia doing it in 2012-13, when people were complaining about 'zombie football'.

Liverpoolisation is nearly complete. Expectations are now rock bottom.

I think the central point is that it isn't a matter of the players playing badly or not putting effort in, or not being set up right, or anything like that. We're just not very good.

 

[Turnip]

Why isn't this classed as a meltdown thread?

Martial's goal and the promising start made me start to think it was gonna go our way. Why was I so stupid? Been made to feel like that so many times this season just for the jolly Dutchman to pull the rug from under me.

 

[darko]

Our setpieces are a joke. Mata, a player on £100k + a week, can't even manage to get a freekick into the box. Absolute joke.

I makes my blood boil when I see two players standing by the free kick when one of them would be better used in the box or just outside the box.

 

[darko]

At the end of the day, other than at GK, United are poor in the critical areas: middle of the defence and middle of the attack. They give away easy goals and can't finish worth a lick (other than Rooney at times). To be fair, Martial has played well but he is not a first rate finisher. They need to straighten out the CB position and the striker position.

 

[gerdm07]

You'd definitely take Coutinho. Mata used to be a more decisive player but no longer the case.

Firmino would definitely get in our present team as well, though he blows hot and cold.

Wouldn't take any others though.

A proper coach would have us a good distance ahead on the pitch.

I envy the spine Liverpool have going forward. Sahko, Can, Countinho, and Sturridge. Add Firmino and Lallano and this is a nucleus of what could be a very good team. So many light footed and technically skilled players. I would even say if Sturridge is healthy and they bring in a couple of impact players, they will challenge for the title next year.

 

[Fully Fledged]

What you on about fella? That goal killed the game for us, if we hadn't have conceded on the stroke of half time, then the second half could have been much different. And yes, a kid let us down with that goal, he was in fact shit and Coutinho ate him alive and shat him out!

Where was his cover? Any decent manager would have had a player like Coutinho double teamed in a position like that. Either Carrick/Smalling should have moved over or Mata should have tracked back. Leaving the kid on his own to deal with him was just asking for trouble. On another note Coutinho also run past Smalling like he wasn't there on several occasions last night.

 

[clarkydaz]

Yep. Rooney coming back and hitting the ground running will have a big say in whether we achieve anything this season I reckon.

The same Rooney people say takes 5 games to get back to match fitness

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The same Rooney people say takes 5 games to get back to match fitness

There isn't a cat in hells chance that Rooney will hit the ground running. All he is bothered about is proving to Woy that he can stand up to get on the plane to France. Because that is all it will take. Doubt we will see another goal from Rooney this season. Which then makes it likely he will still be here next season, god help us.

 

[darko]

Where was his cover? Any decent manager would have had a player like Coutinho double teamed in a position like that. Either Carrick/Smalling should have moved over or Mata should have tracked back. Leaving the kid on his own to deal with him was just asking for trouble. On another note Coutinho also run past Smalling like he wasn't there on several occasions last night.

His cover? He was brutal defensively all half and was taken to the cleaners for that goal.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Agreed. Last night was never a good performance.

We were average in the first half, and back to our usual poor form in the second.

Sturridge hit the bar, Henderson skied an easy chance from 12 yards, either of those go in and we go in 2-1 down at the break. Second half it got worse.

Yes, we attacked with some intent, but we weren't carving them open from open play. It was 'get it to Martial and hope he can skin Clyne'. That was the limit to our creativity.

That game plan worked about 10 times as effectively when we had Valencia doing it in 2012-13, when people were complaining about 'zombie football'.

Liverpoolisation is nearly complete. Expectations are now rock bottom.

I find it interesting you can acknowledge Liverpool chances but then ignore the Rasford, Martial, Fellani efforts which were comparable to Henderson's.

We had a number of opportunities where final touch, lack of shooting boots or good block prevented us going ahead in the first half and second. Liverpool had more open chances at the end of the game as some players were helping the attack, e.g. Valencia, Darmian and Blind.

We weren't good enough on the day, but the players did not have the poor attitude so many have implied.

I was dreading watching the match, as I missed it Live, but I felt at the end of the day we just lacked that one bit of quality. Rashford and Martial ran the scousers ragged all game, Lingard was full of energy for probably 75 mins and plenty others won their dual with the Liverpool players. Unlike at Anfield when they won every single duel.

Also thought Varela got way too much criticism. Tes, got skinned, who would have thought that, but where was Smalling. He did not anticipate and close off the near post.

 

[Fully Fledged]

His cover? He was brutal defensively all half and was taken to the cleaners for that goal.

Watch good defenses play against a winger they will have 2 players team up on the winger to restrict his options. Either Mata should have been back to double team Coutinho or Carrick/Smalling should have moved over to offer support. It's basic defensive play.

As soon as Coutinho got the ball somebody should have been busting a gut to offer cover. once he got past Varela there was nobody else offering any resistance what so ever. He had a free run at goal. Now you may blame the kid completely for that but I for one don't. If you expect an inexperienced player like Varela to handle Coutinho all match on his own then you are asking for trouble.

Yes Varela didn't have a good game I don't think that playing Mata as the winger in front of him help him much though.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I find it interesting you can acknowledge Liverpool chances but then ignore the Rasford, Martial, Fellani efforts which were comparable to Henderson's.

We had a number of opportunities where final touch, lack of shooting boots or good block prevented us going ahead in the first half and second. Liverpool had more open chances at the end of the game as some players were helping the attack, e.g. Valencia, Darmian and Blind.

We weren't good enough on the day, but the players did not have the poor attitude so many have implied.

I was dreading watching the match, as I missed it Live, but I felt at the end of the day we just lacked that one bit of quality. Rashford and Martial ran the scousers ragged all game, Lingard was full of energy for probably 75 mins and plenty others won their dual with the Liverpool players. Unlike at Anfield when they won every single duel.

Also thought Varela got way too much criticism. Tes, got skinned, who would have thought that, but where was Smalling. He did not anticipate and close off the near post.

Agreed.