[48 hours]

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well, we clearly disagree. I think (as did the OP) that this game showed there is a massive and urgent need to upgrade at all three positions. Whether or not these players can individually plug a hole adequately isn’t the argument. The argument is whether the three of them together can be relied upon to get results. You apparently think the answer is yes. We disagree. I think what today proved was that: 1) We were fortunate and 2) Rashford is playing at an elite level in front of the goal currently. I certainly don’t think today showed that Maguire, Fred and Weghorst constitute a competitive spine of a team in the PL.

That’s a pretty stupid argument though. As I’d say we will only very rarely see all three of them start together. And possibly never again as part of a starting line-up as under-strength we saw today (no Casemiro, no Eriksen, no Antony, no Martinez, no Varane) So we’re not in a situation where they’re being “relied upon to get results” Plus the fact we still came away with all three points in what could have been a very tricky fixture (new manager, bitter rivals, away game, fired up after good recent result against us etc) makes those concerns even more redundant.

 

[croadyman]

He really triggered them

 

[croadyman]

HUGE result for getting some breathing space in 3rd place. Should try and keep top two within similar deficit until April. Big ask though as we have still got some tricky aways and games in hand for them too

 

[DomesticTadpole]

HUGE result for getting some breathing space in 3rd place. Should try and keep top two within similar deficit until April. Big ask though as we have still got some tricky aways and games in hand for them too

The match between Newcastle and Liverpool will be interesting. Will Liverpool find form or will Newcastle do what they usually do against the perceived Top 6 and try not to lose.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

We need a thread where everyone trashing Fred last week pates there posts from last week an apologises.

One of you needs to man up and start it.

Why would anyone apologize? Fred was woeful last match. How he played in this one doesn’t retroactively affect that one. No one denies Fred has a game in him, it’s always been about his consistency and how low his lows go (answer: abysmal). Seems like a nice guy though and I can’t wait to wish him well at his new club.

 

[AndySmith1990]

We need a thread where everyone trashing Fred last week pates there posts from last week an apologises.

One of you needs to man up and start it.

He was fecking woeful last week and deserved the criticism.

What is it with football fans that makes them think past performances are suddenly erased by one decent performance? This forum is full of smug smart arses desperate to say "told you so" at the slightest opportunity

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

The match between Newcastle and Liverpool will be interesting. Will Liverpool find form or will Newcastle do what they usually do against the perceived Top 6 and try not to lose.

Sh*thousery for 90minutes, handbags and cards, Klopp to blame that Valencia offside.
Oh and a draw would be nice.
Don't know what I want for Wednesday game. Probably the same.
Actually all of the games in hand should be draws if both team are top 6, or losses for the teams around us against lower placed teams.

Don't think it is too much to ask!

 

[croadyman]

Sh*thousery for 90minutes, handbags and cards, Klopp to blame that Valencia offside.
Oh and a draw would be nice.
Don't know what I want for Wednesday game. Probably the same.
Actually all of the games in hand should be draws if both team are top 6, or losses for the teams around us against lower placed teams.

Don't think it is too much to ask!

Personally want either a draw or City win

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

Personally want either a draw or City win

Yep, draw would be nice, City win will give them boost and put Arsenal deeper in the crisis and less of confidence, which by itself would be excelent.
Few red cards would not make me cry either.

 

[croadyman]

Yep, draw would be nice, City win will give them boost and put Arsenal deeper in the crisis and less of confidence, which by itself would be excelent.
Few red cards would not make me cry either.

Any chance Villa could find that performance from November on Saturday,don't believe we have seen that version of them since

 

[TheGame]

 

[jymufc20]

They only apologise if they somehow give us a break. But all the pens that we never get awarded while ballerina Grealish just needs to be touched and they give Citeh two .

Your right they have only ever apologised when it goes in our favour, wankers.

 

[lex talionis]

Personally want either a draw or City win

A draw would definitely be the optimal result for us, followed by a City win of course.

 

[KjaAnd]

Yet somehow, that is exactly what happened.

Does a spine consisting of said players instil you with confidence ahead of a busy schedule?

 

[Chairman Steve]

Leeds piss nicely boiled and acknowledged via Twitter

 

[Adam-Utd]

Leeds piss nicely boiled and acknowledged via Twitter

hahahahah legend.

Well in Dave. He said in the post match they were throwing him a lot of abuse, so i'm sure he enjoyed that very much.

 

[Chairman Steve]

hahahahah legend.

Well in Dave. He said in the post match they were throwing him a lot of abuse, so i'm sure he enjoyed that very much.

Reminds me of that time Deano played against them for Sheff Utd, then the second the full time whistle goes he does the shush to them, causing them to rage so hard you can hear them almost in tears yelling at him and the only thing they can do in retaliation is to desperately yell ‘paedo’ at him

Think there’s a video of it somewhere on social media.

 

[He'lmurderyah15]

Great result. Didn't look likely with 15 to go but found a way again. Performance was poor but that's bound to happen when playing so regularly. Keep picking up the 3 points is all that matters at the minute

 

[Adam-Utd]

Reminds me of that time Deano played against them for Sheff Utd, then the second the full time whistle goes he does the shush to them, causing them to rage so hard you can hear them almost in tears yelling at him and the only thing they can do in retaliation is to desperately yell ‘paedo’ at him

Think there’s a video of it somewhere on social media.

Yeah I remember it! just makes beating them even better.

 

[Will Singh]

feck Leeds Scum

 

[UpWithRivers]

It was one of the most frustrating games I've watched all season. Just giving the ball away so much, not being able to pass out from the back, being out fought and losing 50/50's, nothing worked and most of the team were just fkn sht. How can fkn Brighton be able to pass from the back with Dunk, Webster and Veltman and we havn't a clue. We couldnt even manage to hit it long because we just lost the areal and then the second ball. I think it was all glossed over by the last 10/15 mins and 2 goals so everyone is happy. And so am I. Fk Leeds. But man we were sht

 

[TheReligion]

It was one of the most frustrating games I've watched all season. Just giving the ball away so much, not being able to pass out from the back, being out fought and losing 50/50's, nothing worked and most of the team were just fkn sht. How can fkn Brighton be able to pass from the back with Dunk, Webster and Veltman and we havn't a clue. We couldnt even manage to hit it long because we just lost the areal and then the second ball. I think it was all glossed over by the last 10/15 mins and 2 goals so everyone is happy. And so am I. Fk Leeds. But man we were sht

Don’t disagree but we were missing 6/11 first team players and had Sabitzer making his first start as a PL player.

Literally not one of our first choice spine was on the pitch.

Its no wonder the team lacked cohesion. Any team would under such circumstances.

 

[CallyRed]

I really truly hate t'Leeds. Even to the point that I want them to lose every game, including against Liverpool or City. I just get so much pleasure seeing them lose. Worst fans in the country.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Don’t disagree but we were missing 6/11 first team players and had Sabitzer making his first start as a PL player.

Literally not one of our first choice spine was on the pitch.

Its no wonder the team lacked cohesion. Any team would under such circumstances.

I'm not sure I can let the team off that easily. Yeah they are tired and we had lots of changes. But Leeds just outfought us - TWICE! We made fkn ridiculous unforgiveable mistakes over and over again. First 5 mins Dalot failed to deal with the winger and it fumbled across the box. In the beginning of the second half they had chances again. And that was after the fk ups of both half's of the first game. I could go on and on about the basic fundamental mistakes. Its just inexcusable

 

[TheReligion]

I'm not sure I can let the team off that easily. Yeah they are tired and we had lots of changes. But Leeds just outfought us - TWICE! We made fkn ridiculous unforgiveable mistakes over and over again. First 5 mins Dalot failed to deal with the winger and it fumbled across the box. In the beginning of the second half they had chances again. And that was after the fk ups of both half's of the first game. I could go on and on about the basic fundamental mistakes. Its just inexcusable

The issue is disjointed play is excusable when you have a team cobbled together that doesn’t play together.

Varane, Martinez, Eriksen, Casemiro, Martial, Antony all missing. Mctominay unavailable too.

Sabitzer making his first PL start and Sancho his first start in 3 months.

I think some are forgetting we are still only months in to Ten Hags reign and the squad still isn’t fully his yet.

When fit he always plays his best players as the drop off is huge and he knows it. The rest struggle to play with the intensity he wants and simply aren’t suited to his system.

Today there was simply too many changes and it was telling that in simply introducing Martinez we started to look more cohesive in possession.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

The issue is disjointed play is excusable when you have a team cobbled together that doesn’t play together.

Varane, Martinez, Eriksen, Casemiro, Martial, Antony all missing. Mctominay unavailable too.

Sabitzer making his first PL start and Sancho his first start in 3 months.

I think some are forgetting we are still only months in to Ten Hags reign and the squad still isn’t fully his yet.

When fit he always plays his best players as the drop off is huge. The rest struggle to play with the intensity he wants and simply aren’t suited to his system.

Agree.

The first 70 minutes wasn't a great watch in terms of United performance and match quality, but all perfectly understandable for the reasons you state - key players missing, a couple of loan, short term fix squad players starting, Dalot and Sancho still feeling their way back to match sharpness, etc.

And I was very pleased with how we managed to deal with all those issues of ours, combined with Leeds' 'new manager bounce' / raising their game v United, and come away with three important and hard fought points.

That we can deal with all of the above, not put in a great performance, and still get the job done and pick up the three points is a positive sign as it's what 'winners' often need to be able to produce at various points of seasons.

 

[NLunited]

Exactly. I thought Weghorst was dreadful. He’s a total non factor in build up. Zero help with hold up play. Slow and plodding. No real skill or ability to breakdown a defender. Haven’t seen anything to suggest he’s clinical. Would rather play Rashford up top right nowand lean more heavily on our young guys at wing. I just don’t see Weghorst as a player who will help United at all this season.

And yet he managed to be involved in build up play and hold up play. Also had an assist.

 

[TheReligion]

Agree.

The first 70 minutes wasn't a great watch in terms of United performance and match quality, but all perfectly understandable for the reasons you state - key players missing, a couple of loan, short term fix squad players starting, Dalot and Sancho still feeling their way back to match sharpness, etc.

And I was very pleased with how we managed to deal with all those issues of ours, combined with Leeds' 'new manager bounce' / raising their game v United, and come away with three important and hard fought points.

That we can deal with all of the above, not put in a great performance, and still get the job done and pick up the three points is a positive sign as it's what 'winners' often need to be able to produce at various points of seasons.

Agree. Of course as fans we want more and more but we have to be realistic and stay grounded.

Ten Hag is doing a good job and the improvements in some of our players under him and his staff are amazing. That said, you can’t expect that with the whole squad as some of them simply won’t be the right fit and will be jettisoned in the summer.

In the meantime though he needs to manage the dynamics as best possible to maximise our chances of success.

 

[drmuji]

Hard earned and important away win this afternoon that moves United now 7 points ahead of 5th spot.

Performance to be expected a tired one in a hectic fixture schedule. Rashford continues to chip in with important goals and Garnacho silenced his critics after his misses midweek v Leeds.

Very tough away match against La Liga leaders Barcelona next. Will be without the suspended Martínez, Sabitzer and the injury list of Antony, Mctominay, De Beek, Martial, Eriksen. A narrow defeat will likely be decent result to bring back to Old Trafford.

I thought the rules allowed sabitzer to play. Remember Dalot played against us in Milan match

 

[Tarrou]

We need a thread where everyone trashing Fred last week pates there posts from last week an apologises.

One of you needs to man up and start it.

I will if Fred apologises first

 

[The Brown Bull]

It was one of the most frustrating games I've watched all season. Just giving the ball away so much, not being able to pass out from the back, being out fought and losing 50/50's, nothing worked and most of the team were just fkn sht. How can fkn Brighton be able to pass from the back with Dunk, Webster and Veltman and we havn't a clue. We couldnt even manage to hit it long because we just lost the areal and then the second ball. I think it was all glossed over by the last 10/15 mins and 2 goals so everyone is happy. And so am I. Fk Leeds. But man we were sht

Seriously? They were revved up for it. Their fans fcuking hate us with a passion.We were missing key players and we still won 2 nil!
Love it! Well done lads!

 

[Stig]

I will if Fred apologises first

That is a very fair response.

 

[D-o-m-i-n-i-k]

I thought the rules allowed sabitzer to play. Remember Dalot played against us in Milan match

Sabitzer has a yellow card ban from the group stage and is not cup-tied.

 

[Jeffthered]

Great result, great result... we're doing so, so well with such a limited squad. It's about resilience, that's what ETH and his coaching staff (big up McClaren here...) have brought to these players. Their mentality is stronger, and this is fantastic to witness.

I didn't see the game, but heard it was a little raw, short on quality.. but what a result. Shaw's quality, Rashford looking more a leading figure each game.. and Garnacho is just a proper young footballer. Tremendous.

Our performances are going to be patchy, because we are still building. But we're doing v well.

 

[JustinC00]

Maguire's head touched it, from different angle.

It comes off the scum player's arm, should have been given as a goal.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Literally swept the ball outwide to Luke Shaw to cross to Rashford header.

What's ridiculous about that statement was two moves before he received the ball when he made that switch, Sabitzer was the one who progressed the ball forward with a low pass through the lines.

 

[Isotope]

It comes off the scum player's arm, should have been given as a goal.

It touched Maguire's head (with Wout already offside) before touched Leed's arm. But you're probably right.

 

[Redbandito]

That’s a pretty stupid argument though. As I’d say we will only very rarely see all three of them start together. And possibly never again as part of a starting line-up as under-strength we saw today (no Casemiro, no Eriksen, no Antony, no Martinez, no Varane) So we’re not in a situation where they’re being “relied upon to get results” Plus the fact we still came away with all three points in what could have been a very tricky fixture (new manager, bitter rivals, away game, fired up after good recent result against us etc) makes those concerns even more redundant.

So your argument is that the aforementioned players "can (all) be upgraded," but it's not really "urgent" because: 1) "They will only very rarely" play together and 2) "We still" won today (with your use of italics implying that this is more in spite of them rather than due to them)? If so, I am not sure I really get the point you're making. It would seem to be some sort of semantical argument about the urgency and immediacy of the required upgrade (an argument that wasn't made by the OP)...not an argument that there is no need to upgrade. Is that correct?

You asserted that the three players all have different qualities. Fair point. So let me share my brief thoughts about each player. Perhaps you can tell me where you specifically disagree? My opinion is that Weghorst is not adequate to the task based on the handful of matches he has played for United so far. That's not a big deal, because I don't think he's a permanent solution up top. If he were a new signing with a multi-year contract with United, I might be a little more patient. But give that he's here on loan and that he is unlikely to be back, the need for an upgraded starter at CF is an immediate and urgent need. He's a massive hole on the pitch for this team who brings relatively little to the table as CF. He lacks pace, brings nothing to our hold up play, has zero ability to create off the dribble, and has missed in the relatively few opportunities to score that he's had/created. I think he was an important "miss" in our January window. I know we didn't have a ton of funding to back a transfer, but I think he's a downgrade from Martial/Rashford so far.

Maguire is a huge liability in the back. He’s better this year than last, but his lack of pace and slow rate of play present big problems for this team when he has to be relied upon to start. He also has a pension for major mistakes, and given the point about his lack of pace, he doesn't have the ability to make up for said mistakes. On another day, his errors might have led to a goal or two. We are fortunate Leeds was not clinical. Bringing in Licha and moving Shaw to LB helped provide cover for Maguire, which seemed to settle things down a bit. But the point remains that he is a huge liability, as was clearly evident today (and for the last couple years prior as well). I think there is little doubt he is sold this summer if they can get anything for him. Do you disagree?

Fred has moments where he looks like he can contribute…especially next to Casemiro. He makes good runs and has been a bit more clinical in front of the goal this year. But Fred is simply not good enough to be the first guy off the bench in the CM, and he certainly can't fill in for Casemiro as a holding midfielder. Of the three aforementioned players, Fred is the only one who I can even imagine playing for United next year...though I hope to see him sold and United upgrade the position. Fred, like Maguire, is hugely mistake prone. He is not press resistant, doesn't bring vision or creativity, and isn't a great dribbler. In very specific situations, Fred is the kind of guy that you can put on the pitch to harass the opposition, but he doesn't consistently win tackles and is too small to be dominant in the air. If Fred is here next year, I hope it is as the last player on the bench.

So in my view, the need to upgrade those three is urgent (with two being more urgent than the third). We can’t do it until the summer anyway, so we aren’t getting immediate help there. But given that Maguire and Fred have a history of these types of performances, it’s not hard to imagine them costing us points or trophies this season.

If you disagree, great! You are entitled to your opinion. But I'm still waiting for you to counterpoint the claim by arguing that those three players are a net positive on the roster…not merely that we can survive them...if in fact, you actually do believe that. Let's have a debate without insulting each other (can we avoid unnecessary comments like “that’s a stupid argument”?). After all, we both bleed United red. No reason to be disrespectful to each other.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Scrappy game, but good fight on show to get the 3 points... especially as we insited on trying to play them in on our goal as much as humanly possible.