I want entertainment when I watch football. Right now I would rather watch City, Tottenham, Liverpool and Arsenal than United. This is the fourth year of just dreary football and it's sapping my enthusiasm.
PL L FA Premier League
Chelsea 1:0 Manchester United
Post-match discussion
Sun, 05 November 2017
- Status
quality vs mediocrity.
Days like this we look light years away from City, but I know we're not. I just hope we get a full squad back from these fecking internationals and the season starts there.
I just hope it doesn't become a race for 2nd, that's just shite.
Days like this we look light years away from City, but I know we're not. I just hope we get a full squad back from these fecking internationals and the season starts there.
I just hope it doesn't become a race for 2nd, that's just shite.
So disappointing.
The way we play is infuriating to watch.
The way we play is infuriating to watch.
He was shit mate, and he has been like that for 5 6 games now! Last season too! He needs to go we need a real num 10.Mkhitaryan with the 2.8 average rating
He wasn't great, but come on...
There is nothing surprising for me, 9/10 the best team with the better players will win the match. We are not better than Chelsea, we are not better than City. I don’t even think we are better than Spurs so our result last week was a big plus but our record v Spurs at OT is good anyway.
I predicted we would finish 4th at best soley based on our players level and nothing has changed for me. What we must do is make sure we stay ahead of the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal. We clearly miss Pogba that much is certain but without throwing players under the bus some of them severely lack anything creative and the technical ability is well below par, simple passing, crosses etc are shocking. Fans who got caught on the hype train in the first few weeks of the season must be extra gutted but anyone who thought we would go from 6th to title challengers are way off. We need better players, Jose may be negative but he is also not a miracle worker. Pep or Poch with their more fluent and attacking style of football would also struggle with the overall quality of our players. Hopefully we buy in January but highly doubtful.
I predicted we would finish 4th at best soley based on our players level and nothing has changed for me. What we must do is make sure we stay ahead of the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal. We clearly miss Pogba that much is certain but without throwing players under the bus some of them severely lack anything creative and the technical ability is well below par, simple passing, crosses etc are shocking. Fans who got caught on the hype train in the first few weeks of the season must be extra gutted but anyone who thought we would go from 6th to title challengers are way off. We need better players, Jose may be negative but he is also not a miracle worker. Pep or Poch with their more fluent and attacking style of football would also struggle with the overall quality of our players. Hopefully we buy in January but highly doubtful.
Just shows that Jose recognises where the issues lie if we have to rush Feallaini back
Totally spot on. I was happy with our start in midfield then Chelsea took over and after the goal they totally dominated for some time.
It's a forum so it'll always be a bit too hyped or a bit too depressed, but while I agree City won't carry on as they are, we'd need to be almost perfect to capitalise!
Maybe we can trim the gap over the next 3 games, but they've already seen off Arsenal, Pool at home, and Chelsea away. They're using up the tricky games rapidly.
We play Arsenal and City back to back late Nov/Dec, if we're still anywhere near the mix we'll need a much better display in those games
One world.. Predictable. Starting XI got it spot on. The score line I got it spot on. I even knew how the match would pan out. I will say it again, in the final third we are awful. We have 1 half decent full back at the club. We have no wingers. Our two number 10's are not good enough.
We are miles behind City in terms of quality. The tactics today were so out of date. Who would have thought we would set up defensively and then resort to hoof ball in the second half. Appalling stuff
We are miles behind City in terms of quality. The tactics today were so out of date. Who would have thought we would set up defensively and then resort to hoof ball in the second half. Appalling stuff
Any report on why Mata didn't make the squad? With Mkhitaryan out of form I'm surprised he wasn't even on the bench.
I'm being flippant; I liked Ruud as a player and there were other factors, true.
But I don't think it's controversial to argue that top strikers are expected to do more than score, that Ruud's all-round game could have been better, or that Lukaku might need to produce more himself. I agree it's not the biggest issue at the moment, but it certainly is a issue.
I didn't suggest it's kneejerk, just an overreaction, even long-term.
I don't see such a big problem - we all saw once again the obvious , that the team lacks balls , but nowadays most team don't have players with such , so we just need to have 2-3 more players like the Big Fella and Matic .
Pogba might be one , Rash will grow up and might become and also Lingard I think has the drive to put pressure .
Lets see how it goes when Paul comes back , despite I don't like him .
Pogba might be one , Rash will grow up and might become and also Lingard I think has the drive to put pressure .
Lets see how it goes when Paul comes back , despite I don't like him .
Jose things that we always don't get, Mata is better than Mkhitaryan. Don't understand what Jose was thinking! But unfortunately it looks like we need to spend more, this team includes such poor finished players.
Jepp the forum has gone crazy. People can go way over the top. I guess it is a lot of frustration over Man City going so well now at least for me. Many games still to go though and we just need to get on with things!
Did anyone notice how pissed off Neville looked when questioned about what went wrong? The man looked fuming.
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Lost control of midfield in the second half which then pulled defenders out of position. Chelsea also had individuals step up such as Cesc, Morata and Hazard. Alonso and Bayakoko were up the pitch more so as well. United had a couple of players increase their effort but that's not the same as performance level.
Unfortunate to come away with nothing from West London again so still waiting for a result, let alone 3 points. A lot of persistent fouling for both sides made the match hairy. Better against Chelsea compared to Liverpool, but that's hardly the point.
Worrying to me is that the attacking players all line up on the shoulder or edge of the defensive line and are waiting for a ball behind. Nobody is trying to come back or pull defenders away. They are all on the half turn or backs toward goal with a significant gap (and opposition players) between midfield or the ball and themselves (Lukaku, Rashford, Martial). It's very reminiscent of LVG.
United cannot purely rely on service when the distance between ball and attacking player is too big, coupled with defending players cutting supply lines/passing lanes and marking players tightly. There's a huge disconnect between the lines.
Unfortunate to come away with nothing from West London again so still waiting for a result, let alone 3 points. A lot of persistent fouling for both sides made the match hairy. Better against Chelsea compared to Liverpool, but that's hardly the point.
Worrying to me is that the attacking players all line up on the shoulder or edge of the defensive line and are waiting for a ball behind. Nobody is trying to come back or pull defenders away. They are all on the half turn or backs toward goal with a significant gap (and opposition players) between midfield or the ball and themselves (Lukaku, Rashford, Martial). It's very reminiscent of LVG.
United cannot purely rely on service when the distance between ball and attacking player is too big, coupled with defending players cutting supply lines/passing lanes and marking players tightly. There's a huge disconnect between the lines.
People have been saying bullshit like this since Liverpool away. Mourinho seems to have been affected by "the experts" views on his tactics based on his comments the last few weeks, and people now got exactly what they asked for. We are simply not fecking good enough to go away to big teams and play "you attack, we attack." We didn't do enough in the transfer window to be able to play like this away from home, we had to rely on fecking Ashley Young and Valencia to provide width for us, two failed wingers. We need to stop with this 3 at the back bullshit, team is so not cut out for it, 433 suits us better.
Go out and buy a new set of actual full backs, a natural right winger, a number 10 and a midfielder to help Pogba with the burden of creating chances. And that's only bloody players to slot straight into the first 11, we're gonna need better squad players as well, some brilliant young prospects should be picked up, specifically central midfielders and wingers to change things when things get tough. We should be MUCH BETTER than having to resort to bringing on Lingard and Fellaini to change games.
I was having a rant right after the game. We cant play any better with the players we have got, but its so frustrating. We were spoilt for 20 years, and like Liverpool 27 years ago, we are moving away from that era.
Anyone know what the problem with Mata was? Presumably something personal?
Jose has spent 90 million on Lukaku, and 75 million plus on Miki and Lindelof, Money well spent?
Do you trust him to spend another 300 million and get it right?
When Pogba went down, we had absolutely no one to fill him in midfield. Periera on loan was a joke, but even before that, could any of us have said he would have been enough to cover Pogba? No way, Jose. Basically from the beginning us not strengthening the full backs and having more depth equals our title chances to that- No way, Jose. If we had the personell, could Jose win it? I do think so. When he has a completed squad he knows how to build a fortress of a defense and when he has the Milito’s and Eto’s of the world fixed with the a strong wide play and solid midfield he can be very strong. What worries me more than anything is how sloppy and tired our team has appeared. Lukaku needs a rest, so does Rashford, I have no idea what Mkhi needs, we need the second coming of Juan Mata, and a really explosive transfer window to stay up top.
Does anyone think Griezmann and wide play in January could make a massive difference only if City implode some impossible way?
Does anyone think Griezmann and wide play in January could make a massive difference only if City implode some impossible way?
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Not defending Mkhitaryan one bit. He has been shit. Jose dropped him after yanking him off against City last year and it took months for him to work his way back into the team. No idea why he's sticking with him this season except we really don't have anyone else to fill the #10 spot other than Mata who is also largely inconsistent. Perrera is gone. He wanted the move, not Jose. Let's hope he's recalled in January.
I hate hoofing it just like you and everyone else. It's infuriating to have possession, pass back and hoof it only to lose possession. However, most of the time we start playing like this it's due to our midfield not having control of the match. We hoof it to bypass our midfield as much as it is to bypass the opponents midfield. Our players look technically inept at times when making simple passes on the ground. Treating the ball like a hot potato doesn't help. Also, without Pogba we have no player to dictate the tempo of our midfield. We'll look different in midfield once Pogba comes back. Our glaring problem is lack of quality in other key areas. We resort to playing narrow because our wide players cannot cross a ball for nothing. Mkhitaryan does not do well when being pressed and that's what happens with no width. Herrera is a shadow of himself from last year.
I'll say it again, we're still relying on players from the Fergie era in key positions. Young, Valencia, Smalling, and Jones would be okay individually if surrounded by a quality squad but putting them all on the pitch at the same time is asking for a disaster. I don't care what people say about Smalling being good enough for United. He is not good enough for a team that should be challenging for the title. Neither is Young, Valencia, or Jones. Somehow Jose has managed to tighten our defense over the past two managers.
Yeah that's a good post from edcunited1978.
We got badly, badly beaten in midfield. It was more noticeable from maybe 30 mins onwards but I thought the writing was on the wall early doors.
United have two big problems at the minute IMO without Pogba. Firstly, we don't have midfielders who are good enough in tight areas in big games. Mkhitaryan was a major issue today but when he takes the ball from Matic or Hererra, there's no-one running off him. The two midfielders are behind him, Lakaku moves but not frequently and inevitably he ends up with three defenders on him. When he tries to counter this by dropping deep, there's a 30 yard gap between the number 10 and Lakaku.
Inevitably this leads to getting the ball out wide but some of the crossing has been really poor I feel. Again though, Hererra isn't going to be that extra man in the box so they've got numbers again defensively.
It just leads to us being unable to play through the lines. We're always hoping for balls in behind. Against lesser teams, it won't be an issue and I think we were strong along by that. Without Pogba, our attacking midfield options are limited at the minute.
We got badly, badly beaten in midfield. It was more noticeable from maybe 30 mins onwards but I thought the writing was on the wall early doors.
United have two big problems at the minute IMO without Pogba. Firstly, we don't have midfielders who are good enough in tight areas in big games. Mkhitaryan was a major issue today but when he takes the ball from Matic or Hererra, there's no-one running off him. The two midfielders are behind him, Lakaku moves but not frequently and inevitably he ends up with three defenders on him. When he tries to counter this by dropping deep, there's a 30 yard gap between the number 10 and Lakaku.
Inevitably this leads to getting the ball out wide but some of the crossing has been really poor I feel. Again though, Hererra isn't going to be that extra man in the box so they've got numbers again defensively.
It just leads to us being unable to play through the lines. We're always hoping for balls in behind. Against lesser teams, it won't be an issue and I think we were strong along by that. Without Pogba, our attacking midfield options are limited at the minute.
No one knows he never does.. His setup for these big away games is shambolic.. This cowardly approach is just terrible..
Very disappointing result today. City are trouncing everyone and we keep drawing blanks. We may be second but we are now in a top 4 scrap. The most worrying thing though for me is how much of an identity we lack. What is our style of play? Our signings are all over the place.
You can question Mourinho's tactics all you want but when it comes right down to it they had chances and they squandered them. Lukaku, Rashford twice and Fellaini all had great chances to score and they bottled each one. Mourinho's system is never run and gun, if you don't finish on the few chances you have you are done. Combine that with the abysmal school boy marking on Morata's goal and there you have it. I'm pretty sure that Jose is perplexed at the lack of quality as well but what is he supposed to do?
I still fully back Jose. I have more confidence in him getting it right than a manager with a lesser profile simply because they might not be able to attract some top drawer players that Jose could, love him or hate him, the name "Mourinho" is still a huge attraction to a lot of players. He generally leaves teams stronger when he leaves so yeah I'd trust him to do the spending.
Nah, I know, that last post wasn't directed at you apart form the first sentence. And my first post in this thread that you replied to was just me venting my own frustrations and I apologize for the foul language.
But the bolded part is where I think you're wrong. We've had a bad couple of seasons, but this season has definitely been a step in the right direction bar this past month or so. Once we get our full squad fit and start picking up points again I'm sure you'll see it as well.
That being said, you are sort of right about us being spoilt for 20 years. I think that the way the Premier League has evolved has made it impossible for any team to achieve the sort of dominance Liverpool enjoyed in the 80's and we had under Ferguson. So alright, City might well win the title this season. What then? Next season it will all be up for grabs again. It is a great time to be a follower of the Prem, lighten up, everyone
Fair enough, but I think his star is fading.
I didn't think we were particularly defensive today - but it is tricky to sustain an attack if the ball can't be held / sent up the front & not be coming straight back again.
How often do you see our forwards involved twice in the same move?
(in these 'big' games anyway)
As someone has said we look like a team of 3 totally separate units when we're trying to go forward. Looks dull & tends to be ineffective.
How often do you see our forwards involved twice in the same move?
(in these 'big' games anyway)
As someone has said we look like a team of 3 totally separate units when we're trying to go forward. Looks dull & tends to be ineffective.
Possibly. My thinking is, lets let him infuse some more quality into the squad this coming summer and let him have the 3 windows he wanted. If he fecks up next season, then it will definitely be time to cut ties and bring in a young, hungry replacement.
No way to sugar coat it, you give the opposition the advantage and it is pretty hard to change attitude, tempo and belief.
Our team plays as though we do not expect to win. A player like Morata pulls our three defenders all over the place, yet their defense had the deck chairs, beer and dirty mags out.
Our team plays as though we do not expect to win. A player like Morata pulls our three defenders all over the place, yet their defense had the deck chairs, beer and dirty mags out.
It's a fecking joke that United still turn out the likes of Jones, Smalling and Young - utter garbage, they've never been good enough and 5/6 years on they still play in our first team!!! It's a fecking disgrace.
If the manager, coaches, and hierachy think this is acceptable United will never return to a position of dominance and don't deserve to.
If the manager, coaches, and hierachy think this is acceptable United will never return to a position of dominance and don't deserve to.
I don't want to bash Fellaini, he probably tried his best and was just back from injury but Why the feck we keep playing him as our secret weapon? It's been 5 seasons, 3 different managers and god know how much did we spend to "upgrade" our squad, Fellaini is still fecking our best option against better/equal team.
So much money wasted just to build a team around Pogba and Fellaini. feck off
So much money wasted just to build a team around Pogba and Fellaini. feck off
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Also if he is coming on all the time he sure as hell isn't a secret.
Fellaini... jones, smalling, young, valencia, - the list goes on mate.
It's fecking awful. United like to bang on that they're the biggest club in the world and have the biggest revenue but the people running the club haven't got a clue.
Would Madrid, barca, bayern, juve tolerate having the same sub-standard players year in year out? No they wouldn't, the fans would fecking riot
Disgraceful performance, our worse since Fenerbache away and probably the worse under Jose.
Didn't expect anything other than a defeat but expected at least a decent performance and some effort. The usual suspects having atrocious games and seriously harming us at the moment as is the manager who can't seem to be able to analyse games. Why did it take him so long to drop the back three?
Didn't expect anything other than a defeat but expected at least a decent performance and some effort. The usual suspects having atrocious games and seriously harming us at the moment as is the manager who can't seem to be able to analyse games. Why did it take him so long to drop the back three?
Four of them were bought by SAF. Jones and Smalling have not progressed how he maybe thought they would. Valencia is getting to being past his sell buy date, Young is well past it. Problem is as a club we are very loyal to our players, which seems terrible saying it is a bad thing, but in some instances it is.
Chelsea were meant to be short on confidence, in a bit of an internal crisis and Conte was said to be thinking of leaving before he’s pushed so we had a genuine shot at getting 3 points today IF we went for it which we didn’t, we played 3 centre backs and two holding midfielders.
If ever there was a game to take it to the opposition away from home and go with a front three of Rashford, Lukaku and Martial then it was today but instead we yet again saw Mhkitaryan play as a 10 and for the god knows how many games on the spin he was awful so he simply has to be dropped.
We went out with tactics to stifle Chelsea and play for the draw which worked against Liverpool and saw us sneak a win against Spurs but we should NOT be playing for draws, I’m a Jose fan BUT it’s getting silly now how piss poor we are in big away games and it’s games like the last few that make me want to see Pocchettino come in regardless of Jose being a bigger name and winning trophies.
If ever there was a game to take it to the opposition away from home and go with a front three of Rashford, Lukaku and Martial then it was today but instead we yet again saw Mhkitaryan play as a 10 and for the god knows how many games on the spin he was awful so he simply has to be dropped.
We went out with tactics to stifle Chelsea and play for the draw which worked against Liverpool and saw us sneak a win against Spurs but we should NOT be playing for draws, I’m a Jose fan BUT it’s getting silly now how piss poor we are in big away games and it’s games like the last few that make me want to see Pocchettino come in regardless of Jose being a bigger name and winning trophies.
- Status
Man of the Match
Runners-up
-
22%
Nemanja Matic
-
9%
Eric Bailly
-
6%
Marcus Rashford
-
6%
Chris Smalling
-
5%
Marouane Fellaini
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5%
Ashley Young
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3%
Antonio Valencia
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1%
Ander Herrera
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1%
Phil Jones
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1%
Romelu Lukaku
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 493 ratings.
Score Predictions
334,104,231
- Man Utd win
- Chelsea win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 20% Chelsea 0:1 Man Utd
- 17% Chelsea 1:1 Man Utd
- 17% Chelsea 0:0 Man Utd
- 13% Chelsea 1:2 Man Utd
- 12% Chelsea 0:2 Man Utd
- 5% Chelsea 1:0 Man Utd
- 4% Chelsea 2:1 Man Utd
- 4% Chelsea 2:0 Man Utd
- 2% Chelsea 1:3 Man Utd
- 1% Chelsea 0:5 Man Utd
- 1% Chelsea 0:4 Man Utd
- 1% Chelsea 0:3 Man Utd
- 1% Chelsea 2:2 Man Utd
- 1% Chelsea 3:0 Man Utd
- 1% Chelsea 3:1 Man Utd
- 0% Chelsea 5:0 Man Utd
- 0% Chelsea 4:0 Man Utd
- 0% Chelsea 2:3 Man Utd
- 0% Chelsea 2:4 Man Utd
- 0% Chelsea 3:3 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Chelsea
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 54% 46%
- Shots
- 18 10
- Shots on Target
- 8 2
- Corners
- 4 7
- Fouls
- 16 20
Referee
Anthony Taylor
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Marouane Fellaini
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replaced by Jesse Lingard
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-
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replaced by Anthony Martial
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