[BorisManUtd]

Did not watch the game but in a way glad we lost as I was absolutely mad at ten Hag for starting Ronaldo (and van de Beek). If he continues starting games, I'll be massively disappointed with EtH and so are going to be rest of the players imo. Think tiredness caught with us as well, played more or less same team against West Ham, Sociedad and Villa

If we don't beat Fulham (and they have been v. good this season), it's not been exactly a great season so far.

 

[tjb]

I could see this result coming. I'm not as down hearted or hysterical as some on here. We'll get some bad results on the way, we'll get some bad performances along the way and we'll get some weird and wonderful decisions from our manager. This is the VERY START of the rebuilding process, it takes a bit of patience and it also takes the fans to support the team, rather than throwing their rattle out of the pram at the first sight of adversity.

Our squad might look big on paper but it really isn't. We depend on a small core of players who have little backup if they are gone.

In the front line we have 2 strikers, 1 is injury prone and already has missed most of the season in Martial, the other is turning 38. If our recruitment was better and we made signings at the start of the window instead of the end, maybe we'd have saved enough to bring in another forward, Glazernomics in full swing here.

So straight away we have a squad shortage up front.

On the wings we have 3 senior players to cover the 2 wings, Rashford, Sancho & Anthony. Rashford and Anthony have had a decent start to the season and will hopefully get better as time goes on, but Sancho hasn't shown up yet this season. We can't rely on youngsters like Elanga & Garnacho to fill this void, so we could do with 1 other wide forward.

In midfield, you have Bruno at 10, when he's unavailable VDB doesn't see up to it. If Ericson or Casemiro gets injured/suspended the drop off is massive to Fred or McTominay. We really could do with another quality CM.

In defense, Dalot is playing every game because we don't have a suitable backup. If Martinez or Varane is unavailable we have to suffer Lindelof or Maguire who are far too slow and it upsets the whole team as we have to sit deeper to compensate. Varane being missing cannot be understated enough. We really need to get rid of one of Maguire or Lindelof and bring in a quick CB to backup Martinez and Varane.

We lose any of Casemiro, Bruno, Ericson, Varane,Martinez, Anthony or Dalot we haven't adequate cover to come in, the drop off is so substantial. And the reason why i haven't included Ronaldo or Martial is because I don't believe we can hang our hat on either of them, one through being past his best and the other is his fitness record. IMO we need 2 strikers and Martial as back up & Ronaldo to go.

The consequences of everything I've said in this long winded post is that the team are knackered. The last 2 games before Villa you can see the players have slowed down and getting leggy. The Villa match was just the perfect storm to expose this with a new manager, playing at home and having a full week to prepare for the game while united had a tough game in the Europa.

In January we need to bring in at least 2 players, CM & Striker (we can't realistically expect to fix everything) to give us a good chance at top 4. But I don't think we'll do anything significant in regards to incomings.

Our wide forward options are not close to being an issue. We just got unfortunate with both Sancho and Antonu going at the same time, however this good to have those 3 for rotation. It is also good for Garnacho and others to know they have a potential spot in the team if they can perform well. Players like him and Amad may eventually challenge.

You are right about our no.9 position. I didn't expect Martial to be this injury prone over the course of the season or Ronaldo to decline this much. However, I also don't think we should spend a lot on getting one player for this position either. I don't think anyone currently on the market is worth that. I do think we should retain Martial, but we also need another good striker around his level. Good scouting will be needed to ensure we get the right price. My belief is that this is an era where a good rotation up front may be far superior to getting fleeced for Osimhen, Joao Felix or Lauturo Martinez.

In terms of midfield. I also agree with you. Eriksen and Casemiro have been great. What's clear and was even more clear at the start of the season, was the drop off in quality after those two. Yes Fred can play with Casemiro, but I think the bigger issue lies in what happens when Casemiro is injured. Mctominay survived in those games early on, but he's not suitable to be a DM either. I think we need a bit of an all rounder in rotation. Someone who can play well defensively, but can also pick up the ball from the back 4 without stress. That way, this person can be paired with either Casemiro or Eriksen. We should also have Zidane, Hannibal and Kobbi pushing through in future. We should also keep being on the lookout for young, vibrant youngsters on the cheap as well.

My point being, I don't think we need that much in future. The holes we have in the team are very hard to plug, but they are actually less than people think.

 

[Nicoseth]

Did not watch the game but in a way glad we lost as I was absolutely mad at ten Hag for starting Ronaldo (and van de Beek). If he continues starting games, I'll be massively disappointed with EtH and so are going to be rest of the players imo. Think tiredness caught with us as well, played more or less same team against West Ham, Sociedad and Villa

If we don't beat Fulham (and they have been v. good this season), it's not been exactly a great season so far.

That's a pretty negative take if you ask me. We started horribly, but we've been impressive since then. We beat Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs, drew away to Chelsea and won every game after losing the first one in the EL(to a ridiculous penalty). I think fatigue is definitely a factor and not just for us - Chelsea and Spurs both lost yesterday too - I don't think that's a coincidence. We all knew this season would be a bit up and down. So far I think ETH has done a wonderful job, but we are far from the finished article. I think if we make top 4 ETH will have done an amazing job.

 

[BorisManUtd]

That's a pretty negative take if you ask me. We started horribly, but we've been impressive since then. We beat Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs, drew away to Chelsea and won every game after losing the first one in the EL(to a ridiculous penalty). I think fatigue is definitely a factor and not just for us - Chelsea and Spurs both lost yesterday too - I don't think that's a coincidence. We all knew this season would be a bit up and down. So far I think ETH has done a wonderful job, but we are far from the finished article. I think if we make top 4 ETH will have done an amazing job.

Perhaps you're right about me being negative and I always expected this season to be full of ups and downs (even when we were all buzzing about that Spurs performance) but think cup game v Villa would've been much better game to start both Ronaldo and Donny than this one.

 

[noodlehair]

Yes agree overall, I'm more than happy with ETH this far but the decisions yesterday in terms of starting DVB and then bringing off Shaw and Garnacho were strange. As was making Ronaldo captain given his terrible form and antics.

Fair enough re Lindelof and Maguire but I thought Maguire warranted inclusion given his performance v West Ham and maybe he wouldn't have made the two mistakes yesterday that Lindelof did.

Slightly concerning given the strange decisions in Spain the other night as well - throwing Maguire on up front.

Im also not sure that I really agree either with the view we lack squad depth, for instance Lindelof and Maguire are our back up centre backs and would probably be starting for Spurs, possibly even Liverpool at this stage alongside VVD. We had other options in midfield yesterday but ETH chose not to use them. He could also have started Rashford up front and maybe Elanga out wide. We are definitely light in options however for striker and right back but I think we are fairly well covered every where else

Hopefully a minor blip and we are still well placed for top four finish which is the target.....at least for me.

VDB starting over Fred I did think was odd, but that's where I'd give Ten Hag some leeway in that it might be VDB has been doing better or adapting better tactically in training. He's made a few choices I'd say were errors in team selections but he's also been very consistent with playing people who do well and dropping people who don't, so we'll see what he does next weekend.

Fred was good vs Spurs but then Spurs were awful and Eriksen is just a much better player than Fred or Mctominay. I don't think Ten Hag will pick people he doesn't trust if he has a choice, because he expects a high standard, and I do think that's what we need even if it means losing the odd game we might not have in the short term. It's no different to what Pep did when he came in at City.

Hard for me to agree or disagree on Maguire/Lindelof as I think both are a liability. That mistake for the first goal is exactly the sort of thing Maguire would do. He did do it at least twice vs West Ham he just got away with it. I don't think either would be playing for Spurs or Liverpool. I honestly think they were the worst two CBs in the league last season outside of anyone Norwich picked. I think Ten Hag prefers Lindelof because at least he's mobile enough to allow the team to press and push up, but then he's so bad at it that it really doesn't matter.

Don't know what to make of the Ronaldo thing tbh. I didn't expect him to play for us again, although I don't see that we'd have fared any better or even been able to hold the ball in attack with Elanga in his place, and that was the only alternative.

I also think we'll see the odd weird tactical change and times it won't come off because Ten Hag is still figuring out his team amd very much beats to his own drum. Again it's no different to Pep at City or Klopp when he first took charge of Liverpool. It took both we'll over a year to get their squad and team into the shape they wanted, and they both had a stronger starting point than Ten Hag. They're also the two best coaches in the world. Not saying Ten Hag can prove he's anywhere near that level but I'm quite happy in the immediate term to have a manager who at least has potential.

 

[BorisManUtd]

And I fecking hate Emery. Couldn't wait until after WC break to join them.

 

[Elcabron]

VDB starting over Fred I did think was odd, but that's where I'd give Ten Hag some leeway in that it might be VDB has been doing better or adapting better tactically in training. He's made a few choices I'd say were errors in team selections but he's also been very consistent with playing people who do well and dropping people who don't, so we'll see what he does next weekend.

Fred was good vs Spurs but then Spurs were awful and Eriksen is just a much better player than Fred or Mctominay. I don't think Ten Hag will pick people he doesn't trust if he has a choice, because he expects a high standard, and I do think that's what we need even if it means losing the odd game we might not have in the short term. It's no different to what Pep did when he came in at City.

Hard for me to agree or disagree on Maguire/Lindelof as I think both are a liability. That mistake for the first goal is exactly the sort of thing Maguire would do. He did do it at least twice vs West Ham he just got away with it. I don't think either would be playing for Spurs or Liverpool. I honestly think they were the worst two CBs in the league last season outside of anyone Norwich picked. I think Ten Hag prefers Lindelof because at least he's mobile enough to allow the team to press and push up, but then he's so bad at it that it really doesn't matter.

Don't know what to make of the Ronaldo thing tbh. I didn't expect him to play for us again, although I don't see that we'd have fared any better or even been able to hold the ball in attack with Elanga in his place, and that was the only alternative.

I also think we'll see the odd weird tactical change and times it won't come off because Ten Hag is still figuring out his team and very much beats to his own drum. Again it's no different to Pep at City or Klopp when he first took charge of Liverpool. It took both we'll over a year to get their squad and team into the shape they wanted, and they both had a stronger starting point than Ten Hag. They're also the two best coaches in the world. Not saying Ten Hag can prove he's anywhere near that level but I'm quite happy in the immediate term to have a manager who at least has potential.

I think we are on same page overall. ETH entitled to make some mistakes but let's hope they are infrequent. Think you are being a bit harsh on Maguire and Lindelof as you could say same about almost every position in our team last season. Anyway neither is first choice for us anymore which is good. Re Elanga, the other alternative was to play Rashford in Ronaldos place and Elanga on the right, Rashford not great there either mind you but did ok as striker v spurs. Don't think Klopp had stronger starting point than ETH as he inherited a pretty shite squad from Rodgers but I suppose you could argue last 10 or 15 united games prior to ETH we were relegation material.

I do also agree with you re losing the odd game here and there, that's fine and to be fair there were plenty of mitigating factors such as injuries, suspension and playing away Thursday night, it's been a very tough 4 weeks for united. Casemiro and Martinez looked tired. It will probably be Brazil v Argentina in WV final

 

[Maticmaker]

I think ETH's reason for trying out DVB, was as 'pass and move' is Donny's strength (reputedly) Erik was expecting him to link play with Eriksen and Casemiro, to take us, or 'drag' us, up the pitch, as an alternative to going wide, or taking long diagonal punts to the front men. However, he's had two goes at it now and it's not worked, because DVB seems to have lost all his confidence and both Casemiro and Eriksen were yesterday struggling to supply any cover to the back four and in trying to do so left Donny isolated. Aston Villa were in the mood to throw caution to the wind, and they did so and caught us out badly, both in tempo and strategy, hope things are different on Thursday night.

However, I am still viewing it in a positive light, because if we are ever to change our approach the manager needs to experiment with the players he has, rather than wait until he gets those he wants. Also, Erik has still got a lot to learn about the PL.

 

[HaliRed]

I think ETH's reason for trying out DVB, was as 'pass and move' is Donny's strength (reputedly) Erik was expecting him to link play with Eriksen and Casemiro, to take us, or 'drag' us, up the pitch, as an alternative to going wide, or taking long diagonal punts to the front men. However, he's had two goes at it now and it's not worked, because DVB seems to have lost all his confidence and both Casemiro and Eriksen were yesterday struggling to supply any cover to the back four and in trying to do so left Donny isolated. Aston Villa were in the mood to throw caution to the wind, and they did so and caught us out badly, both in tempo and strategy, hope things are different on Thursday night.

However, I am still viewing it in a positive light, because if we are ever to change our approach the manager needs to experiment with the players he has, rather than wait until he gets those he wants. Also, Erik has still got a lot to learn about the PL.

I think you are correct with your assessment of the Casemiro/Eriksen tandem yesterday. They looked tired tbh.

Villa's third goal in particular was an indictment of that. No midfielder tracking the late runner into the box.

I didn't mind the VdB experiment either, and think he might have had a better day with Antony and Sancho playing.

 

[lex talionis]

This goes into the nitpicking category, but Rashford should have started on the left, Garnacho on the right…or Elanga if starting on the right was a bridge too far for Garnacho.

Maguire over Lindelof, who had a bad day and with Varane out Maguire is next in competence.

Van De Beek didn’t take his chance and the game passed him by. The ability to exploit pockets of space is there for all to see, and it must be said Villa defended well, but he needed to press harder to exploit those spaces.

In the end, it was a mugging by an inferior side.

 

[Telsim]

Pretty much how we set out against Villa:

Spoiler

 

[Maticmaker]

I think you are correct with your assessment of the Casemiro/Eriksen tandem yesterday. They looked tired tbh.

Villa's third goal in particular was an indictment of that. No midfielder tracking the late runner into the box.

I didn't mind the VdB experiment either and think he might have had a better day with Antony and Sancho playing.

Yes, that was a disgrace, nobody anywhere near the guy, he literally strolled up to the ball (starting from within his own half) and stroked it in... 'Schoolboy football' doesn't even begin to describe it.
Shouldn't really blame the manager, that was down to a number of our players who clearly were still sat in the dressing room sucking on their oranges; however, you would have thought ETH's words would have been ringing in their ears as they took to the pitch..."keep it solid for the first 15 minutes, lads"

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

What a crybaby.

 

[Lentwood]

Pretty much how we set out against Villa:

Spoiler

Generous to include Rashford as RW tbh....

 

[Doracle]

Generous to include Rashford as RW tbh....

and Lindelof as a CB…

 

[Foxbatt]

We got mugged for the free kick. I didn't see the match. Did the referee push the wall back?

 

[I Am Zlatan]

Surely its up to our players to keep an eye on this and question the ref?
Yes I know the ref should get it right, but everything needs to be checked.
I mean the lines on the pitch are set at 6 yards, so its obvious and should be easy for a player in the wall to police this.

I think they did complain, but it was a brief tame one, it seemed like the ref pushed our players further back than he should have and the Villa players pulled the ball back a bit.. it was very obvious that it wasn’t 10 yards.. I’m not sure why the players didn’t make a bigger deal out of it.. I feel like Bruno would have if he was on.

 

[croadyman]

Keep seeing this.

Ronaldo not playing won't help unless there's somebody to replace him. Somebody better.

Players need to get themselves back on the pitch.

We need some kind of forward in January then go all in for an Osimhen type player next summer. Like someone above said we also need to bring in some CM cover as well.

 

[Waynne]

I think most people would have gone with Fred or McT in midfield, with Eriksen playing a more advanced role and then the Garnacho, Rashford and Elanga front 3. It still wouldn’t be ideal but it would have added some extra steel in the midfield and more speed up front. I’d have fancied our chances of getting a result with that team, whereas I thought the one we sent out always looked problematic.

Doesn't help that Ronaldo is crap and Donny goes missing. With the squad limitations we have, we need every player to be pulling their weight and putting in a shift.

 

[NinjaZombie]

I think they did complain, but it was a brief tame one, it seemed like the ref pushed our players further back than he should have and the Villa players pulled the ball back a bit.. it was very obvious that it wasn’t 10 yards.. I’m not sure why the players didn’t make a bigger deal out of it.. I feel like Bruno would have if he was on.

I thought I was the only one who saw this. It was crazy. Our wall was clearly way beyond ten yards.