[McGrathsipan]

We beat them on aggregate over two games in the league.
Progress.

 

[fergieisold]

Arsenal 3 years into their development, us only 6 months into ours. We had a tough away game midweek after just playing City and we still kept the runaway leaders at 2 - 2 at their ground and only lost because of the way that ball bounced up in the penalty area. Yes we rode our luck before that but that is understandable given the personnel we still lack in certain areas and the overall circumstances (and obviously no Case).

All things considered I'm pretty calm and happy. The aim for ETH was Top 4 (at a push) and good football. We are now comfortably top 4 and the squad is clearly still full of players Ten Hag doesn't exactly want but is still getting a tune out of. The fact that we even competed in a ding dong battle between two top table teams is something we'd have loved to be doing the last few years. Perspective is needed badly for some people on here.

I'm surprised some are so negative tbh. I'm gutted to have lost the game, but the way we played was impressive considering how far we'd fallen just 5 months ago! Last season we'd have been absolutely destroyed by this Arsenal team I think.

 

[RedRJ]

Arsenal 3 years into their development, us only 6 months into ours. We had a tough away game midweek after just playing City and we still kept the runaway leaders at 2 - 2 at their ground and only lost because of the way that ball bounced up in the penalty area. Yes we rode our luck before that but that is understandable given the personnel we still lack in certain areas and the overall circumstances (and obviously no Case).

All things considered I'm pretty calm and happy. The aim for ETH was Top 4 (at a push) and good football. We are now comfortably top 4 and the squad is clearly still full of players Ten Hag doesn't exactly want but is still getting a tune out of. The fact that we even competed in a ding dong battle between two top table teams is something we'd have loved to be doing the last few years. Perspective is needed badly for some people on here.

Thank-you, I thought it was just me that feels like this. Some very harsh criticisms flying around here.

 

[Mr Anderson]

Just shows how far we still need to go, squad depth and resilience wise. Second half we had no composure at all and gifted the ball straight back to a momentum building Arsenal. I know Antony was only doing ok but he was able to run and hold the ball for a few key seconds. When Fred came on we sat back and hoofed even more.

we also looked knackered second half - same vs Palace. The squad depth isn’t there to do the wholesale changes every few games, but hopefully we can rest a few during league cup and fa cup - some need a rest or to be dropped.

 

[Crimson King]

Squad depth and fatigue did for us, the difference of a midweek game, no Casemiro, were big factors for 60 minutes Arsenal edged it but not by much would expect this from the home side who are running away with the league.... am more disappointed dropping points at Palace than a tight game at Arsenal

Yeah, I'm more upset at the late equaliser against Palace than I am about last night.

 

[Jeffthered]

Arsenal 3 years into their development, us only 6 months into ours. We had a tough away game midweek after just playing City and we still kept the runaway leaders at 2 - 2 at their ground and only lost because of the way that ball bounced up in the penalty area. Yes we rode our luck before that but that is understandable given the personnel we still lack in certain areas and the overall circumstances (and obviously no Case).

All things considered I'm pretty calm and happy. The aim for ETH was Top 4 (at a push) and good football. We are now comfortably top 4 and the squad is clearly still full of players Ten Hag doesn't exactly want but is still getting a tune out of. The fact that we even competed in a ding dong battle between two top table teams is something we'd have loved to be doing the last few years. Perspective is needed badly for some people on here.

Absolutely right. ETH clearly not happy, Shaw stating this defet was deserved, both of these statements speak volumes in the change of mentality at the club and this was an essential first step.

I'm frustrated, because we have players who need to simply damn well do better, as they will be the difference in us having a v v good season, as we are, or us having a fantastic season, as we could. But some players have to step up, mentally and in terms of performance, impact.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Lads we got played off the park. An amazing goal softened the blow. I'd be worried if anyone was happy with our performance.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Southgate - just the knowledge that he was watching trying to work out which one of Saka/Rashford he can still drop so his mate Sterling can play.

I wish Rashford would tell Griphook to feck off. When people talk about Rashford's awful season last year I never see his experience with England during the preceeding summer mentioned as a factor. Barely used all tournament and then brought on cold and expected to score a penalty in England's first final in 56 years. Then had to deal with the fact that he missed, the horrendous racial abuse, shoulder surgery, and the clusterfeck that was United on and off the field last season. Fast forward 18 months and Southgate drops him like a stone after performing brilliantly in the WC group stages. United > England every day of the week.

 

[Zen86]

Lads we got played off the park. An amazing goal softened the blow. I'd be worried if anyone was happy with our performance.

Not really. First 5 minutes and final 20 aside, we were pretty level with them. While we did score a bit of a wondergoal to take the lead, so did they, and it was defensive sloppiness and tiring players which allowed them to take the three points.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Lads we got played off the park. An amazing goal softened the blow. I'd be worried if anyone was happy with our performance.

That's not true. Look at all the half-time comments where the match was being covered online*. We were more than a match for them for the guts of an hour. Our collapse in the final 20-30 minutes left a bad taste and seems to have distorted the memories of most of redcafe.


*BBC coverage
"The match has certainly lived up to the billing. It's been a brilliant first half of football. Excellent play, great atmosphere. High tempo, high stakes as well and the players have shown why they are in this position and Manchester United have shown why they are on their current run. They are confident. The goal from Marcus Rashford is up there with one of the best goals I have seen this season. More in the second half, please."

 

[Kostov]

We were a VAR decision away against City, bottled Palace and now this. It was overdue, people should not act surprised. Casemiro is masking a very average set of midfielders and maybe even a leaky defense. Rashford is carrying a non existent attack and it's been the story of most of the season.

 

[Maticmaker]

Given the loss of Casemiro thought we put on a gutsy performance, Martinez being shown once again as a real warrior. I was disappointed with the timing of the substitutions, it was obvious without deeper support Shaw was struggling and needed someone like Fred, but it came too late, so did the Garnacho sub hence without a realistic threat on their goal, Arsenal could power forward at will and that's what did for us, in the end we were fighting a rearguard action on the 6 yard line and had no 'out ball' for the last twenty minutes.

Also why have a 6 foot 6 inch forward and play less than half a dozen balls in his direction, every one he won, but we had nobody close enough to seize on the knock downs. It not beautiful football, but it just might have put us in with real chance of making a title bid by taking 3 points or even 1?

We are however making progress so, onward and upwards

 

[Matt851]

I appreciate we don't have much depth but think their are questions about eth's in game management. During tight games he generally seems to go for more Conservative changes e.g. replacing Anthony with Bruno out to the right and Fred in the middle. Not convinced this has worked very often, sometimes we have held on but it has rarely led to us having more control or scoring again. Would have liked to have seen rashford up front and garnacho for longer yesterday

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'm more annoyed about this result/late goal then the Palace one weirdly.

Palace one I chalked up to "one of those things" - a late worldie, what can you do.

This one, after literally conceding a late goal 4 days ago it's gutting to do so again, especially when it's both a bit jammy, and also totally avoidable.

Plus we didn't really deserve anything from this game, so to knick a point would have been great.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm more annoyed about this result/late goal then the Palace one weirdly.

Palace one I chalked up to "one of those things" - a late worldie, what can you do.

This one, after literally conceding a late goal 4 days ago it's gutting to do so again, especially when it's both a bit jammy, and also totally avoidable.

Plus we didn't really deserve anything from this game, so to knick a point would have been great.

It felt a lot less avoidable in this match to me. In fact, the goal felt inevitable. It was actually crazy how long they took to make the most of all that dominance at the end of the game.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It felt a lot less avoidable in this match to me. In fact, the goal felt inevitable. It was actually crazy how long they took to make the most of all that dominance at the end of the game.

Oh true, my reaction to the goal yesterday was a "well there it is" as opposed to the "oh feck off" from the Palace free kick... but yeah, I was over the Palace result by the next morning, but this one is still eating away at me! A point would have been really great, especially considering no Casemiro.

 

[noodlehair]

Some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous and a bit pathetic.

Less than a year from being a shambles and looking more like a bottom 3 side than a top 4, and people acting like it's an embarrassment to lose away to the team top of the league to an injury time winner in one of the games of the season.

If the roles were reversed and Arsenal came to OT 3 days after a tough away game and without Partey, I'd expect them to struggle just as much against us this season, and they're the top side in the league. Last season we were getting played off the park away to fecking Norwich, now we're competing with the best teams in the league.

Exactly what are people expecting from this side?

 

[Gerald G]

Its bollocks mate. (I'm not attacking you just giving you my POV) It wasnt Antonys absence he was quite absent hymself. It was the fact that ETH went with Fred (while having both McTominay and Eriksen on the pitch) instead of young Garancho that seald our faith. There was no wide players except Rashford who could carry the ball in the face of relentless Arsenal pressure. We might have lost with Garancho offcourse but at least we would have a counter or two with him.

I tend to agree with you. I think Garnacho should have came on around the 80th minute mark when we were under the cosh. We needed an outlet and the only one we had was Rashford. But at the same time our players lacked composure in the last 15 mins. There were a couple of times when they could have passed to Rashford but just hoofed it clear

 

[Loony BoB]

Arsenal have now played 19 games, are sitting pretty at the top of the league, and have only lost one game the entire season. Given where we were last season, to compete with them and make a (very entertaining!) game of it is awesome. People saying one step forward, two steps back need a reality check. We've taken about 10 steps forward since last season, and have had maybe a few steps back along the way, but we are definitely still making progress.

If you told me that we would be the only team to beat the top team in the league 19 games into the season, and then lose to them by one goal in an epic game while missing our best player and also missing our best CF, and be sitting 4th, 6 points clear of the 5th placed team, 0 points (just goal difference) behind 3rd, I'd have taken it, 100%.

This isn't a huge step backwards for us, this is simply a reminder to keep our feet on the ground and keep working on the very good progress we've been making thus far.

Hope Arsenal beat City to the title. Of course I'd prefer we win it, but I'd also prefer I had a million quid plonked into my bank account, I'd prefer Russia to not invade Ukraine, I'd prefer a lot of things. Reality is reality, and we're still "on the up" overall, and I'm confident our team can continue to improve. Losing away to the top side by one goal is not something to throw your toys out of the pram over, given our situation in recent years. It's something to look at as a learning point, and motivation to push ourselves that little bit further. Still 100% support the team and the manager.

Still, would have been nice to see Garnacho come on for Weghorst and Rashford move up top. I feel like it could have done something.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Fairly good performance for about an hour but we clearly ran out of steam at that point. I'm not sure we deserved to lose but Arsenal were probably just deserving of the win if that makes sense! Most frustrating was that at least 2 of the goals were easily avoidable.

Overall when you consider that Arsenal have made such an incredible start and are likely winners of the title, that we're the only side to beat them so far and pushed them close for the majority of this game is a good sign. Talk of competing with them for the league was premature, top 4 is the realistic aim this season and we're still in a great place to achieve that.

 

[Rightnr]

We were a VAR decision away against City, bottled Palace and now this. It was overdue, people should not act surprised. Casemiro is masking a very average set of midfielders and maybe even a leaky defense. Rashford is carrying a non existent attack and it's been the story of most of the season.

I wouldn't call the defence leaky. When you're defending for twice the time you should as a top team, you're bound to concede more.

It's our attack, especially which cannot seem to take pressure off our defence. If we get 2 ahead, we are very good at closing out games. The problem is we have one in-form attacker and a kid. Everyone else doesn't offer much, creativity-wise.

Not least Bruno Fernandes who runs a lot but when it comes to retaining possession and actually providing the final ball, he's not good enough.

 

[justsomebloke]

Lads we got played off the park. An amazing goal softened the blow. I'd be worried if anyone was happy with our performance.

Not really. First 5 minutes and final 20 aside, we were pretty level with them. While we did score a bit of a wondergoal to take the lead, so did they, and it was defensive sloppiness and tiring players which allowed them to take the three points.

Arsenal: 24 shots, 2.90 xG.
United: 5 shots, 0.27 xG.

Which tells the same story as the eye-test: They battered us, we produced very little.

 

[TMDaines]

Good piece on the defensive shapes:

 

[antohan]

Perspective is needed badly for some people on here.

Haven't read the thread so I'm sure you are right, as I agree with everything you said re progress and mitigating circumstances.

It still pissed me off not to see us have a go in the last twenty minutes. In a top four context the point wasn't much to lose, and in an outside chance of challenging for the league getting all three was everything.

We chose the point for the top four battle. I don't care about being left empty handed, I just know the United of old would have had a go, maybe lost 4-2 instead, and that would be fine by me.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Arsenal: 24 shots, 2.90 xG.
United: 5 shots, 0.27 xG.

Which tells the same story as the eye-test: They battered us, we produced very little.

Fecking spare me from xG obsessives. There’s a hell of a lot more to judging a football match than fecking xG.

Picture this. Two teams play out a match which is evenly matched for an hour, with neither side creating many clearcut chances. Then one of the two teams finishes strongly and creates a bunch of decent chances, which gives them a high xG. That is not the same thing as that team “battering” the other team.

Actually, no need to picture it. Just try to remember last night’s game….

 

[Solius]

Haven't read the thread so I'm sure you are right, as I agree with everything you said re progress and mitigating circumstances.

It still pissed me off not to see us have a go in the last twenty minutes. In a top four context the point wasn't much to lose, and in an outside chance of challenging for the league getting all three was everything.

We chose the point for the top four battle. I don't care about being left empty handed, I just know the United of old would have had a go, maybe lost 4-2 instead, and that would be fine by me.

Of course but it takes time to get there. To be disappointed that we fell slightly short of a big hurdle shows the progress we've made when we wouldn't even have been in the race 6 months ago.

 

[justsomebloke]

Fecking spare me from xG obsessives. There’s a hell of a lot more to judging a football match than fecking xG.

Picture this. Two teams play out a match which is evenly matched for an hour, with neither side creating many clearcut chances. Then one of the two teams finishes strongly and creates a bunch of decent chances, which gives them a high xG. That is not the same thing as that team “battering” the other team.

Actually, no need to picture it. Just try to remember last night’s game….

Yeah well, I could reply fecking spare me from xG refuseniks, but the point is the xG tells pretty much the same story as everything else in this case. They had more than 20 touches inside our box, f.e. And five times as many shots. And from my recollection of last night's game, we didn't create a lot of scoring chances and spent quite a lot of the game under dire pressure in our own box.

 

[Hackman2210]

We were struggling 2nd half - fatigue a factor?? I personally think so - another huge factor is squad strenght. The camera cut to the subs warming up - Elanga, Pellestri, Garnacho, Fred, Maguire. Rashford needs a break - if he gets crocked we could be trophyless again.
Martials time is up i think - availability is an ability and one he doesnt have. Elanga - totally uninspiring, Garnacho is still early in his development. Pellestri - not trusted yet. Fred - well freds fred.
Trying not to be too disappointed but i fecking will be if we dont win anything!!!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah well, I could reply fecking spare me from xG refuseniks, but the point is the xG tells pretty much the same story as everything else in this case. They had more than 20 touches inside our box, f.e. And five times as many shots. And from my recollection of last night's game, we didn't create a lot of scoring chances and spent quite a lot of the game under dire pressure in our own box.

If by “quite a lot” you mean the last 20-30 minutes then I agree. And that was my point. A football match lasts 90 minutes and xG can be skewed by events which occur in a minority of that timeframe.

 

[Loon]

Saka and his mate were mocking Rashford?

Ohh, Karma do your thing…

 

[gerdm07]

Fantastic game overall for the neutrals. United, although second best showed glimpses of what they are building towards.

I just want to mention that Zinchenko was an absolute monster today. A cheat code - essentially a modern CM playing LB.

I feel this is what we wanted to do with Martinez initially, as he has the ability to ping delightful balls, and has the tenacity and stamina to replicate Zinchenko. Heck, even Pep is doing the same and allowing Lewis a free role in the RB position.



This touch map is insane. I suspect that’s why many of you felt like we were playing with an extra man. It’s true to an extent during the intense start of the game (before we faded) and towards the end of the second half.

Great game overall, can’t beat a classic fixture.

I've been a fan of Zinchenko for a while now and I can't fathom why Guardiola let him go to Arsenal. That move might be the main reason Arsenal are 1st and City are 2nd. Smart and technical players are needed on every team.

 

[Lee565]

would have preferred martinez in midfield instead if mctominay yesterday, at least we would have had a proper warrior battling in midfield and a far better passer as well and then had shaw in defence again with malacia at ĺeft back.

 

[Rightnr]

Saka and his mate were mocking Rashford?

Ohh, Karma do your thing…

Arsenal, both players and fans, just cannot win without setting up themselves to look like clowns the next time we play them.

This season is an appetizer but their placeholder of a club better not get ideas if we get given the proper funds to compete.

 

[gerdm07]

Defending corner kicks. I don't know about you but I feared defending corner kicks during the 2 previous seasons. We always seemed weak and always on the edge of giving up a goal. Now, however, I'm very confident the team will likely win the first ball and clear their lines. ETH deserves a lot of credit for this change.

 

[justsomebloke]

If by “quite a lot” you mean the last 20-30 minutes then I agree. And that was my point. A football match lasts 90 minutes and xG can be skewed by events which occur in a minority of that timeframe.

I don't think that's accurate, actually. It was true also of long stretches of the first half. I've not seen a breakdown of how xG or other indicators distributed over the course of the game, but I would be very suprised if that disparity clustered primarily in the last half-hour. I do recall shots at half-time were more or less half the final total.

I think maybe the closeness of the score masked things a bit. It felt like a close game (and of course in terms of goals, it was).

 

[PieCrust]

It was good to see the fixture mean something again, been too long in that regard for both clubs.

I'm not too bothered by the result as we weren't challenging for the title anyway. Secure top 4, maybe a domestic cup, and move on with year 2 of ETH rebuild.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think that's accurate, actually. It was true also of long stretches of the first half. I've not seen a breakdown of how xG or other indicators distributed over the course of the game, but I would be very suprised if that disparity clustered primarily in the last half-hour. I do recall shots at half-time were more or less half the final total.

I think maybe the closeness of the score masked things a bit. It felt like a close game (and of course in terms of goals, it was).

I would be amazed if it wasn’t. Although xG is often misleading so can’t rule it out. Have a look online for the various minute by minute reports. Look at the half time summary’s. You’ll see an overwhelming consensus that the two teams were evenly matched at that point. It was the second half where it got away from us.

 

[Tom Cato]

It was good to see the fixture mean something again, been too long in that regard for both clubs.

I'm not too bothered by the result as we weren't challenging for the title anyway. Secure top 4, maybe a domestic cup, and move on with year 2 of ETH rebuild.

If we won we would be 5 behind Arsenal (1 game in hand) and 3 behind City. Winning yesterday would absolutely have put us in a title contention.

 

[sunama]

Arsenal 3 years into their development, us only 6 months into ours. We had a tough away game midweek after just playing City ...

Technically you are correct in what you say.
But how often have we seen posts like this where the poster will say, "We are only 6 months into Jose/Ole/ETH's reign"?
Then a year or 2 later, the manager gets fired and we have to start again?
By having this mentality we will be trophyless for another 10 years at least.

If a manager joins Chelsea/MCFC/Madrid, etc, he is expected to have instant impact.
The days when a manager can expect to lose for 3 years straight at a big club are gone.
ETH will need to win trophies next season, at the latest or he too will be fired.

I know my standards are high, but given that we have one of the biggest budgets in World football, it is staggering how easily we accept losing.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Technically you are correct in what you say.
But how often have we seen posts like this where the poster will say, "We are only 6 months into Jose/Ole/ETH's reign"?
Then a year or 2 later, the manager gets fired and we have to start again?
By having this mentality we will be trophyless for another 10 years at least.

If a manager joins Chelsea/MCFC/Madrid, etc, he is expected to have instant impact.
The days when a manager can expect to lose for 3 years straight at a big club are gone.
ETH will need to win trophies next season, at the latest or he too will be fired.

I know my standards are high, but given that we have one of the biggest budgets in World football, it is staggering how easily we accept losing.

Do you have any idea how ironic it is to post that in a thread about this specific match? Did you not even notice Arsenal’s struggles over Arteta’s first couple of seasons in charge?