Portugal Discussion | Roberto Martinez watch

[TheLord]

I don't think you need half the balls for any manager to drop the clearly outdated Ronaldo from the starting lineup, let alone letting him stroll around for full matches just to satisfy his lust for personal glory.

Martinez should be fired today and someone with proper balls needs be roped in.

 

[Pronewbie]

Should be replaced by a young up-and-coming manager.

Cristiano Ronaldo - the player-manager.

 

[the_cliff]

Its quite ironic that the same player that carried this team during a time when their squad had a massive lack of talent is now the same player holding them back when they have a golden generation.

Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain.

Oh and Pepe. What a legend, what an absolute beast of a defender, surely a change in the guard moment now for Portugal with him and Ronaldo leaving the team.

 

[Bastian]

They'll both be there. Pepe is a a centre back he'll get away with it, as for Ronaldo with the WC being in America he'll definitely play with all the exposure and everything that comes with the US.

He's got legal issues in the US and he'll have 3 years of Saudi League then, I seriously doubt it. And if he is still there he will be used the way he should have been used this tournament, like an impact sub (a la Muller). Pepe at 43 would be crazy, but then again, he was amazing at 41.

 

[Deco10Legend]

Taking off Bruno seemed like an absolutely mental decision.

I like Bruno but he played like shit, he had a bad Euro, he is usually one of our best players though, a bit disappointing but not easy playing with Cr0.

 

[SirAF]

He's got legal issues in the US and he'll have 3 years of Saudi League then, I seriously doubt it. And if he is still there he will be used the way he should have been used this tournament, like an impact sub (a la Muller). Pepe at 43 would be crazy, but then again, he was amazing at 41.

This is incorrect. It was brought up in the Ronaldo thread, yet again, yesterday. He's not going to the World Cup in the US, but that is not due to legal issues as they are non existent.

 

[pcaming]

He's got legal issues in the US and he'll have 3 years of Saudi League then, I seriously doubt it. And if he is still there he will be used the way he should have been used this tournament, like an impact sub (a la Muller). Pepe at 43 would be crazy, but then again, he was amazing at 41.

This was quashed years ago, and even still it was a civil matter...also just avoiding the country doesn't actually avoid anything.

 

[Sarni]

This is incorrect. It was brought up in the Ronaldo thread, yet again, yesterday. He's not going to the World Cup in the US, but that is not due to legal issues as they are non existent.

Then he’s definitely going to that WC. I actually believe he will be playing at next Euro in 4 years too, at 43. Hell, I wouldn’t even put it past him to play at the Saudi World Cup in 2030. He genuinely seems the type that will never let it go because there’ll always be a chance that he adds to his legacy, carried by his teammates.

 

[El Jefe]

Such a weak, spineless excuse for a manager. He's so afraid of annoying Ronaldo by dropping him that his fear got them knocked out.

It’s easy to say this but it must be extremely daunting for any manger to make such a decision on Ronaldo.

The players pretty much worship him as does the Portuguese FA. His predecessor dropped him and he was a champion and got the boot shortly after that. Martinez coming in and making that hugely unpopular move especially as someone who isn’t Portuguese is not easy at all.

We saw how he cried after a missed pen in a game that still had 30mins left. The older version of Ronaldo is so unhinged that if you upset him you risk killing the morale of the team.

The only way to avoid the Ronaldo circus is to leave him at home and it’s the FA that will need to make that call. I don’t rate Martinez but he was in a really tough position.

 

[TwoSheds]

It’s easy to say this but it must be extremely daunting for any manger to make such a decision on Ronaldo.

The players pretty much worship him as does the Portuguese FA. His predecessor dropped him and he was a champion and got the boot shortly after that. Martinez coming in and making that hugely unpopular move especially as someone who isn’t Portuguese is not easy at all.

We saw how he cried after a missed pen in a game that still had 30mins left. The older version of Ronaldo is so unhinged that if you upset him you risk killing the morale of the team.

The only way to avoid the Ronaldo circus is to leave him at home and it’s the FA that will need to make that call. I don’t rate Martinez but he was in a really tough position.

Fergie would have sat him down at his house and had a word and said "we really respect you and want you to be there with us but you're not going to be a starter" and then brought him off the bench for a boost from time to time. It is weird though how Ronaldo has declined in skill level and mentality more than he has physically. I wonder if all those thumping headers have taken a toll on him.

 

[DJ_21]

Made some wrong decisions with his subs last night.

 

[Sly]

I wrote this in the game thread.

People don't know what they're talking about. They don't understand the dynamics of portuguese football and the power and influence of both Ronaldo and Mendes. Our FA President is a bureaucrat who understands nothing about football. He only cares about financial aspects, marketing and his own ambitions in Uefa and Fifa. He basically ceeds the football responsibilities to members connected with the Mendes/Ronaldo camp. We had Ronaldo's entourage members (Ricardo Regufe) roaming freely around our squad until other players said that it was inappropriate.

We saw what happened to Fernando Santos when he tried to phase out Ronaldo from our starting eleven. He lost the power struggle to Ronaldo. I don't even like Santos but he did win us a Euro/Nations League. Not only that, we played much better in the WC than in this Euro, including a 6-1 trashing of Switzerland, without, guess who, Ronaldo. All the Ronaldo circus when he got dropped destabilized the team. It was non stop chatter about that crap with media swarming players and Santos. Result was a putrid performance against Marocco and almost all pundits placed the blame on the Ronaldo circus and subsequent distraction. Even Ronaldo sisters and the President of the Republic got involved ffs. After that Santos got sacked, replaced by an Yes man, who instantly put Ronaldo back in the starting line up.

I'll never forget and forever be grateful for everything Ronaldo gave to our country. But atm he's just tarnishing his reputation. He's getting trashed this morning all over media. Even more than Felix. People have started to turn on him. He should have retired after the world cup. He's not capable of being a starter for our team. He should have accepted an impact sub role. I'm absolutely convinced his numbers would be better. Now, I don't even want him to be that. I don't want him around the team anymore. I don't want him in our WC squad. We have to evolve as a team and with Ronaldo around it's impossible. It's unfair to other players. Bench player, players that play that have to sacrifice themselves. His time is up.

 

[Sarni]

Fergie would have sat him down at his house and had a word and said "we really respect you and want you to be there with us but you're not going to be a starter" and then brought him off the bench for a boost from time to time. It is weird though how Ronaldo has declined in skill level and mentality more than he has physically. I wonder if all those thumping headers have taken a toll on him.

You are talking about one of the greatest managers of all time whose reputation in the game exceeded Ronaldo’s. There is a handful of managers who could have that mandate but none of them are going to manage Portugal, it’s basically Ronaldo’s team at this point and he makes a decision when he wants to play and when he doesn’t. Simple as that.

 

[TwoSheds]

You are talking about one of the greatest managers of all time whose reputation in the game exceeded Ronaldo’s. There is a handful of managers who could have that mandate but none of them are going to manage Portugal, it’s basically Ronaldo’s team at this point and he makes a decision when he wants to play and when he doesn’t. Simple as that.

If that were true any self-respecting manager shouldn't take the job. You can literally just not pick the guy, it's fine. If he doesn't want to be on the bench he can stay at home. Basically what Ten Hag told him.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

With the bench he has at his disposal, all I learned about Martinez was that he’s extremely conservative and a poor tournament manager.

The subs last night…if I was a Portugal fan, I’d be calling for blood.

 

[FootballHQ]

You are talking about one of the greatest managers of all time whose reputation in the game exceeded Ronaldo’s. There is a handful of managers who could have that mandate but none of them are going to manage Portugal, it’s basically Ronaldo’s team at this point and he makes a decision when he wants to play and when he doesn’t. Simple as that.

Mourinho would've axed him imo, Portugal should've just hired a caretaker and then waited until end of 2023 season as Mourinho would've been available then.

Not like they were especially close at Real Madrid but of course that was peak Ronaldo in the early 2010s.

 

[Physiocrat]

Fergie would have sat him down at his house and had a word and said "we really respect you and want you to be there with us but you're not going to be a starter" and then brought him off the bench for a boost from time to time.

That's exactly the best approach. Given his lack of legs, bringing him on in the last 30mins makes loads of sense.

 

[Swoobs]

I wrote this in the game thread.

People don't know what they're talking about. They don't understand the dynamics of portuguese football and the power and influence of both Ronaldo and Mendes. Our FA President is a bureaucrat who understands nothing about football. He only cares about financial aspects, marketing and his own ambitions in Uefa and Fifa. He basically ceeds the football responsibilities to members connected with the Mendes/Ronaldo camp. We had Ronaldo's entourage members (Ricardo Regufe) roaming freely around our squad until other players said that it was inappropriate.

We saw what happened to Fernando Santos when he tried to phase out Ronaldo from our starting eleven. He lost the power struggle to Ronaldo. I don't even like Santos but he did win us a Euro/Nations League. Not only that, we played much better in the WC than in this Euro, including a 6-1 trashing of Switzerland, without, guess who, Ronaldo. All the Ronaldo circus when he got dropped destabilized the team. It was non stop chatter about that crap with media swarming players and Santos. Result was a putrid performance against Marocco and almost all pundits placed the blame on the Ronaldo circus and subsequent distraction. Even Ronaldo sisters and the President of the Republic got involved ffs. After that Santos got sacked, replaced by an Yes man, who instantly put Ronaldo back in the starting line up.

I'll never forget and forever be grateful for everything Ronaldo gave to our country. But atm he's just tarnishing his reputation. He's getting trashed this morning all over media. Even more than Felix. People have started to turn on him. He should have retired after the world cup. He's not capable of being a starter for our team. He should have accepted an impact sub role. I'm absolutely convinced his numbers would be better. Now, I don't even want him to be that. I don't want him around the team anymore. I don't want him in our WC squad. We have to evolve as a team and with Ronaldo around it's impossible. It's unfair to other players. Bench player, players that play that have to sacrifice themselves. His time is up.

Interesting politics, didn't CR7 and Mendes broke their relationship during his "escape" from United?

 

[Sly]

Interesting politics, didn't CR7 and Mendes broke their relationship during his "escape" from United?

Yes but Mendes controls player call ups and Ronaldo does managerial appointments. Each faction has its influence and relationship with the FA President.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I don't understand any manager who thinks a player above 36 can operate as a lone forward. Scaloni gave Messi a striker partner for that same obvious reason. If you can't coach a two striker system just bid them adieu instead of pretending an ocean liner can participate in a speed boat race.

 

[duffer]

So is Ronaldo retiring from international duty?

 

[De Portago]

So is Ronaldo retiring from international duty?

Of course not. Unless there is some sort of insurrection in Portugal I expect the exact same thing to happen in 2026. Ronaldo will not step aside of his own volition.

 

[Swoobs]

So is Ronaldo retiring from international duty?

I mean look at Portugal's squad, filled to the brim with talents and possibly the most talented squad (even more than france or england) in the world right now. I am sure cr7 will not retire as this squad is good enough to win major intetnational competition even with him stinking the whole place up

 

[Sly]

So is Ronaldo retiring from international duty?

I think he will try to go to the next world cup and then retire. If he was to retire, we would see some kind of Ronaldo circus ceremony powered by our FA in the next days. It would probably involve some crying yesterday as well.

 

[Sarni]

Mourinho would've axed him imo, Portugal should've just hired a caretaker and then waited until end of 2023 season as Mourinho would've been available then.

Not like they were especially close at Real Madrid but of course that was peak Ronaldo in the early 2010s.

I could see Mourinho doing that, yes, and I could also see him managing Portugal eventually. Think he would be very successful with them. I reckon they will persist with Martinez for at least another tournament, if not two, simply because he somehow always gets to stay despite poor performance.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Yes but Mendes controls player call ups and Ronaldo does managerial appointments. Each faction has its influence and relationship with the FA President.

Does the FA President have any ties of note with Mourinho? Not sure if Mendes still manages him.

I think the assumption is that Mourinho still has enough gravitas that he could drop Ronaldo from the squad without issue but what you say about Santos who won the Euros makes that questionable.

 

[#07]

 

[Sly]

Does the FA President have any ties of note with Mourinho? Not sure if Mendes still manages him.

I think the assumption is that Mourinho still has enough gravitas that he could drop Ronaldo from the squad without issue but what you say about Santos who won the Euros makes that questionable.

He has good relationship with him. Portugal FA President was a Porto Vice President, so they probably know each other.

Anyways this is a moot point. Mourinho still enjoys the day to day club work and has just signed with Fenerbahce who is going to back him strongly in the transfer market. I dunno if Mourinho will ever manage us. He has had the chance at least twice and rejected.

Also I don't know if I really want him. His coaching style is getting outdated and he hasn't enjoyed much success recently. I'd prefer an attacking style manager as Jorge Jesus rather than having Mourinho playing us with his typical playing style.

 

[Ekeke]

Dont think that was a problem

The real issue was possession. They had the most possession of any team at the tournament, 66.2% of it. But other than Leao taking on his fullback and playing the ball with his weaker left foot they didnt do much with it

They were just happy to patiently pass sideways and backwards as long as they kept the ball. Naturally the ball ended up with wide players and they were going to eventually try and cross. They still had 17.6 shots per game which is 3rd behind Spain and Germany, but it wasnt great to watch them just constantly recycle the ball around the team without much emphasis on getting the ball into the attack and scoring.

Edit - Another thing, they played Nuno Mendes at leftback and he put in 4 or so of the weakest crosses I've seen this tournament. If they were all playing to get the ball into the box for Ronaldo he'd be left out because his delivery is awful

 

[OverratedOpinion]

He has good relationship with him. Portugal FA President was a Porto Vice President, so they probably know each other.

Anyways this is a moot point. Mourinho still enjoys the day to day club work and has just signed with Fenerbahce who is going to back him strongly in the transfer market. I dunno if Mourinho will ever manage us. He has had the chance at least twice and rejected.

Also I don't know if really want him. His coaching style is getting outdated and he hasn't enjoyed much success recently. I'd prefer an attacking style manager as Jorge Jesus rather than having Mourinho playing us with his typical playing style.

I think he will end up with the job eventually. Either that or the England job.

I somewhat agree with your last paragraph but I think international football is tactically outdated. I think Jose would strongly suit a world where he can plan very specifically for a handful of games over a short space of time.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

If someone above him has forced him to play Ronaldo in that way - then okay.

But then again - not okay.

Because a man with some integrity should have then told those people to feck off - and resigned (if necessary).

Pathetic, really.

 

[FootballHQ]

I think he will end up with the job eventually. Either that or the England job.

I somewhat agree with your last paragraph but I think international football is tactically outdated. I think Jose would strongly suit a world where he can plan very specifically for a handful of games over a short space of time.

Mourinho's style is certainly outdated in major leagues, that has been apparent since 2015.

However he's still a very good cup manager as evident by Roma's two strong runs so I could see a scenario where he gets Portugal to a major final given large elements of their squad are still mid 20s or younger.

Probably he has one eye on 2030 World cup as that would be a dream ending with Portugal co-hosting.

 

[Marvin look out]

I wrote this in the game thread.

People don't know what they're talking about. They don't understand the dynamics of portuguese football and the power and influence of both Ronaldo and Mendes. Our FA President is a bureaucrat who understands nothing about football. He only cares about financial aspects, marketing and his own ambitions in Uefa and Fifa. He basically ceeds the football responsibilities to members connected with the Mendes/Ronaldo camp. We had Ronaldo's entourage members (Ricardo Regufe) roaming freely around our squad until other players said that it was inappropriate.

But why do the other players accept this? If everyone knows that Ronaldo is not good enough to play for Portugal anymore, they know it as well. I'm talking about Bruno, Pepe, Bernardo Silva, Ruben Dias, etc. When you're not happy about your working conditions, you quit your job if you can afford to or you go on strike. The key players of Portugal could have made an ultimatum to the FA President and refuse the selection as long ad Ronaldo is still there, leaving him no choice but to drop the diva. Their health and legacy is on the line and Bruno and Bernardo are no spring chicken.

 

[SirAF]

Not sure if Mendes still manages him.

I believe he is still with Gestifute.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

But why do the other players accept this? If everyone knows that Ronaldo is not good enough to play for Portugal anymore, they know it as well. I'm talking about Bruno, Pepe, Bernardo Silva, Ruben Dias, etc. When you're not happy about your working conditions, you quit your job if you can afford to or you go on strike. The key players of Portugal could have made an ultimatum to the FA President and refuse the selection as long ad Ronaldo is still there, leaving him no choice but to drop the diva. Their health and legacy is on the line and Bruno and Bernardo are no spring chicken.

Aren't most of these guys Mendes clients? I don't understand the inner politics of Portuguese football, but something tells me it's a complicated situation that's not solved that easily.

 

[The Siege]

Expect him to be revealed as the next Real Madrid manager soon.

The man's clearly a master at failing upwards.

 

[SCP]

Who are the biggest striker prospects in Portugal ?

Sorry, rarely come here.

It's a tricky question, not exactly strikers but I guess even if the CR7 saga hopefully ends now ( I have been saying this since 2021 and remained the same) there's always Jota, Ramos and even if he isn't having a reliable club carreer I could see a some sort of false 9 with Felix.

I mean looking at the last Euros it's not like Europe is producing an hotbed of strikers, and I rather have a false 9 or another sort of adaptation if Jota or Ramos don't work out than remaining with the CR7 shitshow of recent tournaments.

It's a toxic issue and unfortunately it takes the focus out of other problems we had during the tournament, and yes having seen Martinez working things during the tournament he was as bad as CR7, the only difference is that he is a nice guy who smiles a lot but rarely answers any football related question.

For example, for me it was a horror show that what Martinez called tatical flexibility over the last 2 years was nothing more than changing between a 343 or 433 and asking fullbacks to play as midfielders and an horror show of crosses without making any sense.

All in all I think Martinez was really worse than I expected, starting to think that Belgium 2018 generation must have been a really world class side to almost reach the WC Final, because if at that time he took similar decisions than now I would be surprised if he added any real value to that squad.

Not that we don't have our issues and maybe some gaps for the near future, for example I think we should produce better Goalkeepers, Center Backs and Strikers obviously.

But I struggle to see in Martinez some one who can raise the level of this team, it wasn't like if the previous coach was great, but at least here or there he fixed issues during the tournaments, particularly 2016 and 2022, Martinez?

I really doubt he was what we needed, better not talk about his man management in the squad, it was awful, CR7 the most evident but with other players he showed lack of leadership and was afraid to play players who were in better shape or less tired.

Coming back to your question, we don't have someone really new who can come and take the role of Jota or Ramos, but honestly we can make some sort of adaptation there, a false 9 (Félix) or why not play a 442 Diamond with Leão/Felix alongside a Jota or Ramos, I look at other coaches in other NT's and they try different things, with Martinez I don't know if he can see the light.

Anyway not exactly related with your question because at this time I don't know if he will play for Portugal or Guiné Bissau (dual national) but I was coming here to recommend to the guys who like to watch new players in other leagues to pay attention to this one. (@LuckyScout78 @Adnan @Invictus ) sorry if I missed some nicks, but I have a good feeling for this player.

At least expect him to have very good impact for Braga right now and his release clause is 40 million €, don't know if he wants to play for Portugal or Guine Bissau but I have to say this is the kind of new guy I want to see, even not being a striker he can score goals, one of those who can be a terror on the final third with the right development.

I rarely recommend players here from Portugal even when they ask about Sporting players I try to be honest and always have my reservations, but this one don't know why gets on the topic of new players to watch during the season, very good potential at least.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/roger/profil/spieler/906329

 

[DarkLord1984]

Expect him to be revealed as the next Real Madrid manager soon.

The man's clearly a master at failing upwards.

Good thing Woodward isn't still around...

 

[Bastian]

Sorry, rarely come here.

It's a tricky question, not exactly strikers but I guess even if the CR7 saga hopefully ends now ( I have been saying this since 2021 and remained the same) there's always Jota, Ramos and even if he isn't having a reliable club carreer I could see a some sort of false 9 with Felix.

I mean looking at the last Euros it's not like Europe is producing an hotbed of strikers, and I rather have a false 9 or another sort of adaptation if Jota or Ramos don't work out than remaining with the CR7 shitshow of recent tournaments.

It's a toxic issue and unfortunately it takes the focus out of other problems we had during the tournament, and yes having seen Martinez working things during the tournament he was as bad as CR7, the only difference is that he is a nice guy who smiles a lot but rarely answers any football related question.

For example, for me it was a horror show that what Martinez called tatical flexibility over the last 2 years was nothing more than changing between a 343 or 433 and asking fullbacks to play as midfielders and an horror show of crosses without making any sense.

All in all I think Martinez was really worse than I expected, starting to think that Belgium 2018 generation must have been a really world class side to almost reach the WC Final, because if at that time he took similar decisions than now I would be surprised if he added any real value to that squad.

Not that we don't have our issues and maybe some gaps for the near future, for example I think we should produce better Goalkeepers, Center Backs and Strikers obviously.

But I struggle to see in Martinez some one who can raise the level of this team, it wasn't like if the previous coach was great, but at least here or there he fixed issues during the tournaments, particularly 2016 and 2022, Martinez?

I really doubt he was what we needed, better not talk about his man management in the squad, it was awful, CR7 the most evident but with other players he showed lack of leadership and was afraid to play players who were in better shape or less tired.

Coming back to your question, we don't have someone really new who can come and take the role of Jota or Ramos, but honestly we can make some sort of adaptation there, a false 9 (Félix) or why not play a 442 Diamond with Leão/Felix alongside a Jota or Ramos, I look at other coaches in other NT's and they try different things, with Martinez I don't know if he can see the light.

Anyway not exactly related with your question because at this time I don't know if he will play for Portugal or Guiné Bissau (dual national) but I was coming here to recommend to the guys who like to watch new players in other leagues to pay attention to this one. (@LuckyScout78 @Adnan @Invictus ) sorry if I missed some nicks, but I have a good feeling for this player.

At least expect him to have very good impact for Braga right now and his release clause is 40 million €, don't know if he wants to play for Portugal or Guine Bissau but I have to say this is the kind of new guy I want to see, even not being a striker he can score goals, one of those who can be a terror on the final third with the right development.

I rarely recommend players here from Portugal even when they ask about Sporting players I try to be honest and always have my reservations, but this one don't know why gets on the topic of new players to watch during the season, very good potential at least.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/roger/profil/spieler/906329

Thanks for the excellent feedback. I'll look at Roger when I get the chance. I won't bother you with follow up questions if you're pretty dormant on here, but I'd hope for your sake that you get in a new manager for the national side. Such a shame if this amazing squad does not realise its potential.

 

[LuckyScout78]

Ramos is the most natural striker and sharpest CF at the momemt i am typing this text. By far.

And he can do more on his own.

It is just some managers prefer subjective others CFs and tactics/line up. Just a cup of tea. Different taste and choices.


But Ramos sitting on the bench for both Paris and Portugal would not help his CF and football development either. So last time i saw him in action was in World cup. At that time. Clearly one of the sharpest CF at that time, in the football world. So keeping regular top football will keep that momunent going. Opposite benchwarmer will do opposite effect.