Zaha is their flashiest player - that's a long way from "best". His passing is awful and he loses the ball (either from a crappy touch or just not being able to hang on to it) almost 8 times a game. He'd be lucky to get a game with the U-23s - no way Mourinho would let him near the first team. Having said that, his underlying problem is just the same as Barkley - neither of them has a brain. Which pretty much disqualifies them when tactical understanding and flexibility are major requirements for all our players.
Pogba out for 4 to 6 weeks | No Megathreads
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Zaha is their flashiest player - that's a long way from "best". His passing is awful and he loses the ball (either from a crappy touch or just not being able to hang on to it) almost 8 times a game. He'd be lucky to get a game with the U-23s - no way Mourinho would let him near the first team. Having said that, his underlying problem is just the same as Barkley - neither of them has a brain. Which pretty much disqualifies them when tactical understanding and flexibility are major requirements for all our players.
Secret to Giggs's longevity was Yoga, even Berbatov recently said that he has been doing Yoga per Ryan'ss recommendation.. Pogba start doing Yoga
I think Paul's absence is (if it's even possible) not talked about enough. He takes our team to a far higher level. I think between him and Bailly's absence this year, we've done okay to survive as we have. With Paul in the team, we are equal to City.
Need him back yesterday. Our football has suffered so much without him in the team. If we stay within 5 points when he's back my optimism levels will get very high.
But we werent playing as well as them even when he was here and fit? The results were similar mind.
Results were similar? Eh, I'm not in agreement with you. He and Matic bossed the midfield and we scored multiple goals in most games and frankly were attacking. I spend a lot of time with my boys who also play the game and we discuss our attacking/defensive nature and the first part of the year with a softer schedule was frankly a very attacking attitude in the team. I think it was a combination of the softer schedule and the fact that Paul is a world class footballer.
I will concede that the schedule was easier and that Mourinho definitely sets the team up more conservatively against big teams especially on the road. Maybe our change in style would've happened anyway whether Pogba was on the pitch or not... but I think he is the most influential player on our team and opens things for others in a way that maybe nobody else in the world can. At least not in the way that he does it.
We didnt boss the midfield at all for large parts vs Stoke, Swansea, Leicester. We did vs West Ham yes.
What games were you watching. We bossed all those games. Swansea barely attached. Leicester has some good spells but nothing sustained. And stoke had a good 30 min
He’s integral to our play. He transforms us from a very good if uninspiring side to a great side that plays great football. He’s that integral.
At the moment we don’t have that one player to get his foot on the ball and forces things to happen. You can see the entire team come alive when he gets it.
At the moment we don’t have that one player to get his foot on the ball and forces things to happen. You can see the entire team come alive when he gets it.
Lingard and Mata (i like him but he's no winger) both get games on the wing for the current United side. With that in mind Zaha could easily get games for United, he's a much better winger than both.
Really though we should have a starting right winger much, much better than all 3 of those players.
We have very different opinions of bossing it seems..
I don't know why Mata doesn't make the place next to Matic , he isn't that bad defensively and would make much more through / forward passes
Looks like after the international break is when we'll see him. Hopefully!
He's back when he's back. I don't see the need for all of the pointless speculation.
Pogba is good. He is our best midfielder along with Matic.
When Pogba plays we are better.
He's back when he is ready.
I am grumpy.
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Pogba is good. He is our best midfielder along with Matic.
When Pogba plays we are better.
He's back when he is ready.
I am grumpy.
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When's Fellaini back. He's the one were really missing
Seeing as memory is fallible (and prone to bias, which is most likely the issue here) let's have a look at some stats.
We had 63%, 57% and 69% possession, respectively, in those three games. If that's not bossing the midfield, what is? It's certainly a big fecking change from the sort of possession we've been getting in most of our games without Pogba.
You sound a lot like Jose.
Oh my bad, we are talking about the LvG bossing. Not about the fact that we didnt create much in open play for example until late in the match. I will know for the next time. If you honestly especially watched the Stoke match and can say we ''bossed'' the midfield for the majority of the match, then it's no discussion really as we differ opinion on bossing amazingly.
No we’re not talking about “LvG bossing”. We averaged 18 shots per game in those three fixtures. It would have taken us half a fecking season to rack up that many shots under Van Gaal.
Educate me, though, what statistic would you use to define “bossing”?
What do you think about none? Before you say my view is skewed, for example read the post match thread of that match where multipe posters criticise the midfield, including Pogba and Matic or just watch the highlights and count on your hand how many clear cut chances we created.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/post-match-vs-stoke-city.432273/
Heh. No great surprise you focus exclusively on the worst performance/result of the three games being discussed. And dropped points against a team like Stoke will ALWAYS generate dozens of posts saying we were dogshit, irrespective of the actual balance of play.
So we’re back to bias. Which is where the stats you’re determined to ignore are the only way to work out whose memory of events is the clearest.
Are we there yet? Nope, 1 more week.
Are we there yet? Nope, 2 more weeks.
Are we there yet? Nope, 3 more weeks.
There is a dangerous pattern developing here.
Are we there yet? Nope, 2 more weeks.
Are we there yet? Nope, 3 more weeks.
There is a dangerous pattern developing here.
I don't think anyone is saying that the Stoke game was a good performance all things considered, but we still had much more control over the midfield in that game than most of the games after Pog's injury. Also, clear cut chances and fans moaning on the Caf after a loss isn't the best way to make your point. Neither is telling people to watch the highlights, to be honest.
The rewriting of history here is crazy. Obviously the Stoke game wasn't as good as the others... because we dropped points. But broadly speaking we were dominant until Pogba's injury in terms of chances, territory, possession, the general feel of the game... any metric you can come up with. You'd struggle to find anyone - United fan or neutral - who would have disputed that at the time. We were flying.
It's the game I memorize best, and no there arent much posts saying we were shit but there were some post criticising our midfield and how Matic, Pogba for example were poor for their standards.
Stats are unbiased but they too give or can give a very flawed reflection of the reality, the highlights and the post match thread gives a fair and pretty unbiased reflection, Im leaving out my opinion as you think that I hate Pogba or something.
Seriously, you're going to use a bit of moaning in a Caf thread to objectively assess anything? Think this may have been the post that finally broke the world...
Some Moaning on the Internet = Evidence of Something to Moan About (ie the existence of things). Thus: Moaning is justified. This forum now moans about people moaning about moaning... this must be what madness feels like.
I didnt think we were flying at the time nor do I think so now but that is that, but up until the Liverpool game we played similarly to how we did before Pogba got injured. From the Liverpool game going I'd agree with you that we have regressed quite a lot and look poor.
Holla at me when you take the context back which you threw in the bin, Im just showing that the general perception on here wasnt that we bossed the midfield at all. Which is contrary to what certain are advocating, and as they seem to think Im biased, I am showing that no, loads of people were actually arguing that our midfield wasnt great in those matches.
It may be that precaution is heaped on precaution with PP being pumped up to bionic standards as the intense programme of PL, CL and World Cup will give him no breather till late next summer.
If this is the case, then perhaps we'll get a fresher, more focused, player who can start showing the world why he's the kind of unique midfielder that can transform a currently stilted and uninspiring side.
If this is the case, then perhaps we'll get a fresher, more focused, player who can start showing the world why he's the kind of unique midfielder that can transform a currently stilted and uninspiring side.
Do you feel we specifically had more control in that game than vs Everton, Basel, Crystal Palace for example? We were very bad vs Soton atmittedly as soon as they put pressure on us.
True, that's fair - the Liverpool game was the turning point rather than the actual time Pogba got injured. I'd still say the downturn in form is at least 50% down to Pogba's absence though. Much of the rest Mourinho's lack of belief in the team's quality, which in football is always infectious and always self-fulfilling.
I think the point where we totally lost controll over the midfield and Mou decided to primarily bypass it was when Fellaini got injured. However, our control over the midfield in general was clearly at it's peak with Pogba in it. The opponents met also carries some importance, of course. We've had harder games after they both got injured, Liverpool being the turning point.
7 weeks and counting... we miss him with Micky not resembling a top flight footballer for some creative spark.
Did he get shot in it or something ffs?
There's a lot of fanny rage on the caf lately ain't there?
As a local saying here goes...As the king (Mou), so the people
Fair enough. I suppose if I gave a shit what Mourinho said rather than what he did then maybe I'd be fanny raging too.7 weeks, wow, and we've felt it.
1 game in 2 1/2 weeks now, so hopefully that last period can get him there.
No point rushing things now though, once he's back he needs to stay back.
Cant disagree with both of this, clearly Pogba's absence has a negative effect on us as he is one of our best players, but his absence isnt the sole reason of our problems and I dont think that his presence will solve all problems either. But we will surely improve a bit when we have some added composure, skill, and creativity in the middle of the park.
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