Pogba is not a left winger

[pcaming]

I love Rashford but saying he has had an amazing season while also saying that Pogba is underperforming is a bit odd.

They've both had good seasons, but at the end of the day we bought Pogba to run our midfield. I don't wanna compare the contributions between both, but I see Pogba's inability to operate in midfield as a basis for a lot of the issues people discussing, not Rashy's consistency.

 

[Adcuth]

We need a quality DM and he needs to play in midfield along side him. Rashford on the left.

With a quality DM, pogba wouldn't need to play beside him. Him and Bruno would both play ahead of him. Rashford still left but Pogba can move left or central depending on how Rashford or Shaw position themselves in the attacking move. Same with Bruno on the right side. But crucially both CM's need to not allow space in behind them so that the DM can do his job without being overrun. Its a simple fix once we have to right players. A decent CB partner also for Maguire and the team is so much stronger.

 

[jem]

That's not the issue. The issue is that no8 isn't Pogbas natural position, and he does not play well in that role.

What do you reckon is his best position? Genuine, non-argumentative question!

 

[Abraxas]

With a quality DM, pogba wouldn't need to play beside him. Him and Bruno would both play ahead of him. Rashford still left but Pogba can move left or central depending on how Rashford or Shaw position themselves in the attacking move. Same with Bruno on the right side. But crucially both CM's need to not allow space in behind them so that the DM can do his job without being overrun. Its a simple fix once we have to right players. A decent CB partner also for Maguire and the team is so much stronger.

Why are we so sure this can work? We have had Pogba in all manner of setups and with different partners, the fact remains that we have found it extraordinarily difficult to find a solution in all games when he is played in midfield. Sometimes we get away with it and on other occasions it is a big weakness and we have to revert to something else.

Fernandes is good at pressing from the front but neither him nor Pogba have any defensive nous once the opposition bypass our press. That is a huge weakness because we are not a possession orientated side so the ball is coming back at us a lot. Sometimes we see these off the mark comparisons to teams like City with relatively light looking midfields and then we think Pogba and Fernandes should be workable but it always ignores the styles of play at work.

Also, Pogba and Fernandes are risk taking players. They play a high proportion of passes that are on but are difficult, both can turn the ball over a lot. Whether it's Fernandes forcing passes or Pogba's dawdling. It leaves whoever this player is as the one man in midfield that actually retains possession consistently. Now, maybe with another defender that is Maguire level on the ball he can pick up some of this slack, but that is by no means certain and we have to identify that player too and then hope it comes together despite the fact we have tried plenty with Pogba.

I just don't think it's that easy as identifying one player that is nominally considered to be a DM and then everything is solved and even if it's theoretically possible who is this player? Most of the time the suggestions seem to involve players that do not hold down a midfield without other defensively stable players!

 

[CG1010]

What do you reckon is his best position? Genuine, non-argumentative question!

More than positions, he plays best when he is at the left hand side free role with minimal defensive responsibilities.. It can be as a #8 or at the wing or at #10.. it doesn't matter.

 

[Adcuth]

Why are we so sure this can work? We have had Pogba in all manner of setups and with different partners, the fact remains that we have found it extraordinarily difficult to find a solution in all games when he is played in midfield. Sometimes we get away with it and on other occasions it is a big weakness and we have to revert to something else.

Fernandes is good at pressing from the front but neither him nor Pogba have any defensive nous once the opposition bypass our press. That is a huge weakness because we are not a possession orientated side so the ball is coming back at us a lot. Sometimes we see these off the mark comparisons to teams like City with relatively light looking midfields and then we think Pogba and Fernandes should be workable but it always ignores the styles of play at work.

Also, Pogba and Fernandes are risk taking players. They play a high proportion of passes that are on but are difficult, both can turn the ball over a lot. Whether it's Fernandes forcing passes or Pogba's dawdling. It leaves whoever this player is as the one man in midfield that actually retains possession consistently. Now, maybe with another defender that is Maguire level on the ball he can pick up some of this slack, but that is by no means certain and we have to identify that player too and then hope it comes together despite the fact we have tried plenty with Pogba.

I just don't think it's that easy as identifying one player that is nominally considered to be a DM and then everything is solved and even if it's theoretically possible who is this player?

I think a lot will come from consistency. Like you said we've tried different things out but never stuck with anything. Adding the players we obviously need at CB and DM and tightening up the defensive aspect or our game will allow us to consistency play players in the correct position and give them time to develop a relationship in the setup. We see all the time teams with worse players but play better as a team because they are consistently playing together in the same setup. Obviously the coaching team need to do their job too to ensure the players don't leave us open from attacking at will as like you say, Bruno and pogba are risk takers.

As far as the ideal players, we need someone strong in the tackle but with decent awareness and an eye for a pass. I like the look of Brozovic but also Ndidi as a prem proven player. Zakaria and Kessie are other options but I'm not sure how they'd handle an all out DM role. At CB, I've been impressed with Botman. But again, he's an unknown quantity in our league. Every CB seems like it could be a risk currently though.

 

[Abraxas]

I think a lot will come from consistency. Like you said we've tried different things out but never stuck with anything. Adding the players we obviously need at CB and DM and tightening up the defensive aspect or our game will allow us to consistency play players in the correct position and give them time to develop a relationship in the setup. We see all the time teams with worse players but play better as a team because they are consistently playing together in the same setup. Obviously the coaching team need to do their job too to ensure the players don't leave us open from attacking at will as like you say, Bruno and pogba are risk takers.

As far as the ideal players, we need someone strong in the tackle but with decent awareness and an eye for a pass. I like the look of Brozovic but also Ndidi as a prem proven player. Zakaria and Kessie are other options but I'm not sure how they'd handle an all out DM role. At CB, I've been impressed with Botman. But again, he's an unknown quantity in our league. Every CB seems like it could be a risk currently though.

I think it comes back to a point I was making earlier in the thread, namely that we have tried so much to actually get consistency out of Pogba that I wonder at which point do we have to accept that it's not really likely to happen?

Do we build the midfield around him at this point in the hope that we strike upon something? You can argue we need consistency to build relationships but we also need consistency of results in the meantime and we have struggled to deliver them hence why we have chopped and changed what looked to be dysfunctional. Numerous managers, setups, positions, partners. Niggling injuries have not helped either, yet Pogba remains the common denominator within this debate as to how we get balance.

I see a couple of issues with the fact some of the players you highlight are not used to this league and you're asking them to come in and do a job that by our own admittance we have really struggled to find a solution for. This suggests it's not an ordinary role but one where there are big demands. They have to be good enough to play for us and then good enough to balance a long standing issue. Ndidi stands out in that he's the one player that has played with a fairly attacking partner and anchored things.

 

[sincher]

Let's face it, Pogba's best position is really Bruno's position, just like Van de Beek and Lingard and Mata and even Pereira.

We need to balance our squad better.

 

[Adcuth]

I think it comes back to a point I was making earlier in the thread, namely that we have tried so much to actually get consistency out of Pogba that I wonder at which point do we have to accept that it's not really likely to happen?

Do we build the midfield around him at this point in the hope that we strike upon something? You can argue we need consistency to build relationships but we also need consistency of results in the meantime and we have struggled to deliver them hence why we have chopped and changed what looked to be dysfunctional. Numerous managers, setups, positions, partners. Niggling injuries have not helped either, yet Pogba remains the common denominator within this debate as to how we get balance.

I see a couple of issues with the fact some of the players you highlight are not used to this league and you're asking them to come in and do a job that by our own admittance we have really struggled to find a solution for. This suggests it's not an ordinary role but one where there are big demands. They have to be good enough to play for us and then good enough to balance a long standing issue. Ndidi stands out in that he's the one player that has played with a fairly attacking partner and anchored things.

If everything around him was fixed and he still couldn't keep performing consistently, then I'd 100% be in favour of moving him on. The glimmer of hope i have that he'll come good is just based on the fact that nothing has ever been settled within the team. Defence has been shite for years, midfield options put to much defensive responsibility on him. Its just never been good enough for a player like him to flourish game after game. He's not a ronaldo type player who can make an impact alone nor is he like Bruno who can come in and raise the performance of the team around him. Which in all honesty isn't acceptable for a player like Pogba who is supposed to be world class in come people's opinion.

Its basically the last chance to see what a player he can be for us of we fix our issues and just let him play to his strengths. If he still can't do it, then he's a pointless player to have in the team. He's not gonna accept being a backup.

 

[justsomebloke]

What do you reckon is his best position? Genuine, non-argumentative question!

And it's a good question too. In the specific context of this team, I'd say left flank, from what we've seen this season. He's had some good games as part of the pivot, but generally against weak teams.

 

[deleon]

Pogba has actually surprised me on the left. I thought for sure if we can't play him as a midfielder his position would be on the right, and that he'd be too trigger happy on the left.

But turns out defenders are usually good at closing down the shooting option, and he's had to resort to more creative options when on the ball. I think our buildup play generally improves when he's involved.

 

[littleman]

After a couple of great games, I think he hasn't done as well on the left since. We need to figure out if we want to start the final with him on the left wing or not

 

[Hugh Jass]

Terrible today on the left wing. We need Rashfords pace there. Move Pogba into the middle.

 

[mu4c_20le]

He offers quality there but looked really slow today, not sure if he's tired.

 

[bosskeano]

Pogba is going into his final year of his contract and there are no clear signs that he is willing to extend. You know that prick of an agent is going to want Pogba to be paid minimum at the level of DeGea which means at least a 30% pay raise from his £290,000 per week salary.

This just seems like an absolute no brainer to me that you HAVE to sell him this summer and get whatever price you can even if it's just 50-60m. This will be too big of a distraction during the season regarding his contract situation.

 

[Freak]

What is Pogba's position anyway? It's probably easier to get North Korea into a democracy than it is to figure out where Pogba works best.

 

[caid]

Pogba is going into his final year of his contract and there are no clear signs that he is willing to extend. You know that prick of an agent is going to want Pogba to be paid minimum at the level of DeGea which means at least a 30% pay raise from his £290,000 per week salary.

This just seems like an absolute no brainer to me that you HAVE to sell him this summer and get whatever price you can even if it's just 50-60m. This will be too big of a distraction during the season regarding his contract situation.

I dont think it'll be easy to move him on unfortunately. And running down his contract for better bargaining power in terms of wage demands and paying off Riola is probably fairly attractive to the pair of them.

 

[MadDogg]

What is Pogba's position anyway? It's probably easier to get North Korea into a democracy than it is to figure out where Pogba works best.

Not really. It's always been quite obvious that his best position is as the most attacking of the midfield three, generally drifting over to the left. With him should be two players who are solid defensively and between them should be able to control the team and set the tempo of the match, with Pogba playing his part in helping that but not being relied on to do it all.

In other words, a properly functioning midfield. It's not some specific out-there formation or set-up. It's probably THE most common formation that good teams have used over the last decade or two, and yet we've barely ever set up that way.

In his first season we briefly had Herrera and a past-it Carrick with him and that coincided with our best form of the season until Mourinho ran Carrick into the ground. Over the next two seasons we played Herrera and Matic behind him occasionally for great success (from memory it was something like 17 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss). That's it. In his entire 5 seasons here those are the only times we played him in something remotely resembling a classically balanced three man midfield, and both times worked well. It's been one of the most frustrating things about these years for me.

Of course, now that we have Bruno that position is no longer available. That role that Pogba should be playing in a 433 is the spot that pushes further forward as a #10 in a 4231. Pogba has shown signs that perhaps he could play out on the left as a wide creative force, but it's too early to say whether that will be suitable long-term (after a good start he hasn't been great there recently).

 

[caid]

Not really. It's always been quite obvious that his best position is as the most attacking of the midfield three, generally drifting over to the left. With him should be two players who are solid defensively and between them should be able to control the team and set the tempo of the match, with Pogba playing his part in helping that but not being relied on to do it all.

In other words, a properly functioning midfield. It's not some specific out-there formation or set-up. It's probably THE most common formation that good teams have used over the last decade or two, and yet we've barely ever set up that way.

In his first season we briefly had Herrera and a past-it Carrick with him and that coincided with our best form of the season until Mourinho ran Carrick into the ground. Over the next two seasons we played Herrera and Matic behind him occasionally for great success (from memory it was something like 17 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss). That's it. In his entire 5 seasons here those are the only times we played him in something remotely resembling a classically balanced three man midfield, and both times worked well. It's been one of the most frustrating things about these years for me.

Of course, now that we have Bruno that position is no longer available. That role that Pogba should be playing in a 433 is the spot that pushes further forward as a #10 in a 4231. Pogba has shown signs that perhaps he could play out on the left as a wide creative force, but it's too early to say whether that will be suitable long-term (after a good start he hasn't been great there recently).

All pretty true, though i'd say that you needed a pretty special player as the 8 to control the tempo, be defensively solid and chip in with a few goals because pogba doesn't score that many. Same with the dm who had to be better than what we had really. He was bought to do a different job than what he offers.

 

[Sandikan]

What is Pogba's position anyway? It's probably easier to get North Korea into a democracy than it is to figure out where Pogba works best.

It's a very unusual position.
Furthest forward in a midfield 3, with license to wander left.

There needs to be a proper playmaker and a proper box to box/ball winner in there with him.
Ideally he doesn't need to be the guy who dictates play, scores or assists that much.

And I say this having thought he's our best player for years, until Bruno!

 

[Nori-]

Unfortunately, unless Pogba can fit into the attacking CM position, I really can't see how he will get regular football next season.

Rashford on the left, Sancho (fingers crossed) on the right, Bruno in the Middle. No space for Pogba unless he is rotated into the squad.

The club will have to convince him to sign a new contract though to protect his value, won't be able to sell him this summer, but next summer could get a decent sum for him.

I think that's their thinking.

 

[cyril C]

Let's face it, Pogba's best position is really Bruno's position, just like Van de Beek and Lingard and Mata and even Pereira.

We need to balance our squad better.

Did we not try Pogba in that position? If he was anywhere near successful, do you think we would have spent 50m panic buy in Jan?

Pogba is a talent player no doubt, but to fit him into a routine system is a real challenge. Some people claim a better DM can accommodate Pogba, really? It all come down to if and whether Pogba can concentrate, show up, and avoid fancy footwork within 90min, which is OK during big games, but big issue against mid-level / bottom sides. So it comes down to what is the best system to cover his ass in big game, and in minor games. A 3-CB defence might work with an additional defender cover his back side, but then you lose a MF / attack position.

I would think Ole has done a great job in finding out how to make the best of Pogba. Against weaker side, deploy as Pivot 2 and take the risk (but then both CB can stay a bit behind). Against strong side, play a 3 men MF, while not interfering with Bruno. Recall the Arsenal loss when both were getting into each other's way.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Not really. It's always been quite obvious that his best position is as the most attacking of the midfield three, generally drifting over to the left. With him should be two players who are solid defensively and between them should be able to control the team and set the tempo of the match, with Pogba playing his part in helping that but not being relied on to do it all.

In other words, a properly functioning midfield. It's not some specific out-there formation or set-up. It's probably THE most common formation that good teams have used over the last decade or two, and yet we've barely ever set up that way.

In his first season we briefly had Herrera and a past-it Carrick with him and that coincided with our best form of the season until Mourinho ran Carrick into the ground. Over the next two seasons we played Herrera and Matic behind him occasionally for great success (from memory it was something like 17 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss). That's it. In his entire 5 seasons here those are the only times we played him in something remotely resembling a classically balanced three man midfield, and both times worked well. It's been one of the most frustrating things about these years for me.

Of course, now that we have Bruno that position is no longer available. That role that Pogba should be playing in a 433 is the spot that pushes further forward as a #10 in a 4231. Pogba has shown signs that perhaps he could play out on the left as a wide creative force, but it's too early to say whether that will be suitable long-term (after a good start he hasn't been great there recently).

Good post.

The problem with Pogba is that he's very multifaceted, so he often plays well in multiple positions that are not 100% natural to him. This has led his managers to try and permanently put him in suboptimal positions and have built the squad in that direction. The funny thing is that the midfield setup that would favour Pogba is usually the best midfield setup for a big club, over the one with 2 DM's.

It just shows our poor planning post SAF, to buy a very expensive player and rarely every use him in an optimal setup. We basically bought an Iniesta-type player, stuck him in a double pivot, and then complained that he doesn't perform consistently.

 

[Water Melon]

Will not be surprised to see him sold come summer or run his contract down. Highly unlikely we will get a very good offer for Paul, so 40-50 million quid at most, I guess. Fit Rashford is better than fit Pogba on the left, Bruno is a better CAM, using Pog as a CDM means using half the player. Shame really, as he is a very, very good player, but current United and him are a mismatch imo.

 

[ReallyUSA]

Glad the Pogba conundrum is over​

 

[CG1010]

Pogba is not a left winger. But he is being played there similarly to how Mata was being used for RW for ages. While we are on the ball, he doesn't stick to the wing and is given a free role to link up wherever he would like. Now you may prefer to have two attacking wingers on both sides ( I do) but if we are playing Pogba in that role, he shouldn't be judged as a winger. He has performed relatively well, although still inconsistently.

 

[wolvored]

I think we would be better moving Pogba on. If you have to change everything around him to get him to have a few good games then you have to ask is it worth it. Bruno came in and generally peforms week in, week out whoever he plays with. Playing with him or Rashford on the left it seems Pogba is the least productive, yet we persevere with it. I think if we can get upwards of £40 mill for him this summer, and put that towards a top class DM would be the best thing to do for the team.

 

[Jim Beam]

Not really. It's always been quite obvious that his best position is as the most attacking of the midfield three, generally drifting over to the left. With him should be two players who are solid defensively and between them should be able to control the team and set the tempo of the match, with Pogba playing his part in helping that but not being relied on to do it all.

In other words, a properly functioning midfield. It's not some specific out-there formation or set-up. It's probably THE most common formation that good teams have used over the last decade or two, and yet we've barely ever set up that way.

In his first season we briefly had Herrera and a past-it Carrick with him and that coincided with our best form of the season until Mourinho ran Carrick into the ground. Over the next two seasons we played Herrera and Matic behind him occasionally for great success (from memory it was something like 17 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss). That's it. In his entire 5 seasons here those are the only times we played him in something remotely resembling a classically balanced three man midfield, and both times worked well. It's been one of the most frustrating things about these years for me.

Of course, now that we have Bruno that position is no longer available. That role that Pogba should be playing in a 433 is the spot that pushes further forward as a #10 in a 4231. Pogba has shown signs that perhaps he could play out on the left as a wide creative force, but it's too early to say whether that will be suitable long-term (after a good start he hasn't been great there recently).

Very good post. What seems to be an issue balance wise is once we got Bruno, we kind of moved away from building around Pogba.
Even if we get that mythical DM who can anchor our midfield the question remain will Pogba be that effective considering the other 8 will be Bruno. And also, why would you move Bruno from his favorite position and a bit further from the attack?
We obviously still need a quality DM on the ball because we will move away from Fred - McTom midfield, but it is absolutely uncertain will that help Pogba.

 

[Rozay]

To be fair, I don’t think he, or his manager believe that he is a ‘left winger’ either. Nor is he being asked to perform as one.

 

[golden_blunder]

He brings no balance to the force

we should sell him whilst we can, and by sell I mean swap because we will get more value

 

[Crashoutcassius]

It's basically a free role. There are no excuses. He has performed well there at times, would be better if we were playing better obviously. It is the perfect position for him

 

[wise_old_man]

He brings no balance to the force

we should sell him whilst we can, and by sell I mean swap because we will get more value

Would you swap Pogba for Grealish if you can?

 

[RedDevilzFox]

What is Pogba's position anyway? It's probably easier to get North Korea into a democracy than it is to figure out where Pogba works best.

Haha exactly!

I've given up trying to shoehorn him into the team and mental gymnastics that go along with it. So much for a special talent that no one can figure out where he plays best. Maybe the problem is him who can only play well when the weather is nice.

 

[golden_blunder]

Would you swap Pogba for Grealish if you can?

Yes but Pogba wouldn’t go to Villa so it’s a non-starter

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It's not a left winger. Pogba already explained his role on the left in the interview is similar to his role at Juventus playing as no 8. It's basically a wide playmaker, he was given freedom to roam and do his own thing. You can see the difference between his role & Rashford on the left or right.

The Liverpool game was poor example mainly because our double pivot and centre back couldn't progress the ball to our front four. Although, against the lesser teams that defend more like West Brom or Burnley or Crystal Palace this season, I prefer him to play in double pivot.

Although, there is still room for improvement for him in this role and that room for improvement is more possible/realistic than expecting him to improve his defensive ability in double pivot.

 

[Sultan]

Pogba is definitely not a left-winger especially as we have players who can play that position better.

United have to play a deep line due to lack of pace with our central defenders. The coaches have to compensate this weakness by playing Fred and McTominay in most matches. Bringing in a quick central defender with either McTominay or a specialist defensive midfielder would help Pogba play further forward without having much responsibility of defending.

AVB --- new defender --- Maguire --- Shaw
-------------------------DM----------------------------------
----------Bruno---------------Pogba--------------------
------Greenwood----Cavani-------Rashford---

 

[TheReligion]

Pogba is definitely not a left-winger especially as we have players who can play that position better.

United have to play a deep line due to lack of pace with our central defenders. The coaches have to compensate this weakness by playing Fred and McTominay in most matches. Bringing in a quick central defender with either McTominay or a specialist defensive midfielder would help Pogba play further forward without having much responsibility of defending.

AVB --- new defender --- Maguire --- Shaw
-------------------------DM----------------------------------
----------Bruno---------------Pogba--------------------
------Greenwood----Cavani-------Rashford---

How much will New Defender and DM set us back? Will they push for a move?

 

[flappyjay]

If we are getting Sancho then sell. Sancho can provide the extra creativity from the wing. With a year a left how much is Pogba worth 40m? Give Juventus a flexible deal and be done with it. Sad to say but it's time to move on.

 

[Sultan]

How much will New Defender and DM set us back? Will they push for a move?

I think about 75 Million would fill both positions and Sancho can be purchased through sales.

 

[flappyjay]

Sancho can be purchased through sales

Who can we realistically sell for good amounts? even in a non covid market we were never good at selling. I can't see us get anywhere what we need with sales.