Pogba is not a left winger

Surprised at the amount happy to move Pogba on, in the belief that somehow losing arguably our best player will help things.

Pogba is not the problem guys. And if Ole can't make it work with all that talent then that's who we should be moving on. And I say that as part of the Ole In argument.
 
Carl said:
Surprised at the amount happy to move Pogba on, in the belief that somehow losing arguably our best player will help things.

Pogba is not the problem guys. And if Ole can't make it work with all that talent then that's who we should be moving on. And I say that as part of the Ole In argument.
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Disagree completely....you can't put a square peg in a round hole. He just doesn't fit into this squad as a starting XI player simply because we have Bruno and we don't have a holding mid who can cover for his lack of defensive responsibility. Makes absolutely no sense to put him on a contract extension for 3-4 yrs at 300K a week to sit on the bench or be a bit part player especially if you want to keep winning.

He can't play on the left effectively against top teams as he doesn't have the skillset required to be a winger.
 
We miss a body when on the counter, villa were leaving so much space but we mostly only had Ronaldo, Mason and sometimes Bruno on the counter. We have missed Rashfords explosiveness.
 
bosskeano said:
Disagree completely....you can't put a square peg in a round hole. He just doesn't fit into this squad as a starting XI player simply because we have Bruno and we don't have a holding mid who can cover for his lack of defensive responsibility. Makes absolutely no sense to put him on a contract extension for 3-4 yrs at 300K a week to sit on the bench or be a bit part player especially if you want to keep winning.

He can't play on the left effectively against top teams as he doesn't have the skillset required to be a winger.
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These conversations about Pogba were all happening well prior to Bruno signing.
 
Carl said:
These conversations about Pogba were all happening well prior to Bruno signing.
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well that makes it even worse so i don't see how you can put the blame on Ole then for not being able to figure out where to play Pogba. The player has to show the ability to earn a position and that ability to excel at the same time. He's done neither in the last two years.
 
bosskeano said:
well that makes it even worse so i don't see how you can put the blame on Ole then for not being able to figure out where to play Pogba. The player has to show the ability to earn a position and that ability to excel at the same time. He's done neither in the last two years.
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It's hardly surprising a dinosaur like Mourinho wasn't able to get the best out of him.

Pogba is so unbelievably talented. This place really makes me laugh sometimes.

Redcafe: We need better players to win the league

Also Redcafe: Get rid of Pogba
 
Carl said:
These conversations about Pogba were all happening well prior to Bruno signing.
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They were a lot sillier then, to be fair. Pogba was our best player in 2018/19 and, contrary to what most people will have you believe now, he was also very good for much of 2017/18 despite Mourinho's usual antics around the Sevilla and Tottenham games later on.

Back then he was also clearly the most talented player in the team and the only real creative outlet we had, so it made a lot more sense to question why the manager wasn't getting enough out of him. He's not our best player now, so it makes more sense to question why he isn't doing more to fit into the team. I still think he's our best option in the midfield two but he does have serious issues on the defensive side that he needs to address - a lot of it is down to the (lack of) team structure but it's not the team's fault when he switches off and lets people run off him, or when he gives away the kinds of idiotic fouls he was doing seemingly every other week last season.
 
noodlehair said:
It's going to get better when Rashford is fit and we're still playing Pogba on the left and shoving Rashford on the right at the expense of Greenwood.
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That's too horrible to even imagine, and yet you're probably right. God knows what that would mean for Sancho.
 
Neither is your mom, but she's still good at handling balls.

I don't know what folly possessed me.
 
Ali Dia said:
I think we will try to play a 4-3-3 when rashy comes back.

Rash Ron Mason
Pogba Bruno
Fred


I don’t love it but I think that’ll be the next thing. I just want us to press and give these teams that are clearly worse than us a hard days work. All they have to do is clog up the middle. It’s far too simple to just give us loads of the ball and restrict us to just scrappy chances around the sides and we’ve got terrible crossers and just one target in the box. Bread and butter for a few big defenders. We are wide open on the counter then as frustration builds and we commit more men forward.
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Haha can you imagine how bad that will be when Pogba and Bruno are caught upfield and Fred is the one holding back the Alamo? It will be like a cartoon when the eyes start bulging:)

We’d need someone much better than Fred in that role plus I’m just not sure Bruno and Pogba would work next to each other in a 433. We’d be cut through like a knife through butter.
 
Dominos said:
Spot on. They have the best in the world at coaching how to keep possession as a team and how to press as a team. By comparison we're 3 years into our current regime and we still look like a team of individuals.

So good luck thinking we can simply switch to 4-3-3 and play like a prime Pep side.
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We have seen Pogba play strangely disciplined a few times though recently. I think it’s possible but would require a lot of coaching. And I’m not sure that’s oles style. He just seems more a “just do what you know you can do” type of guy. And if you put enough of those together, BOOM!

Personally I’d rather Donny was tried. I think he has the intelligence, composure and touch to be disciplined next to pogba and knit defence and midfield. And we saw with the ball to Greenwood he has that in his locker too. I’d really like to see that given a shot. Think it would bring some much needed control to our midfield.
 
Carl said:
These conversations about Pogba were all happening well prior to Bruno signing.
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I regularly disagreed with the people saying it back then. I thought it was obvious then, and is obvious now, that his best position was as the most attacking midfielder with the most freedom in a three man midfield. It never made sense to me why Mourinho and then Ole didn't build the midfield with that in mind. While Pogba himself certainly wasn't blameless (he still could have performed better), he was being set up to fail to some extent by the poor balance of the entire system around him.

It wasn't as simple a case as just playing two midfielders behind him. Mourinho did try that at times but our midfield options were so bad (I think we tried Fellaini and Herrera with him for a while) that Pogba would still have to drop and be our main deep playmaker simply because the others couldn't do it. But transfer window after transfer window passed without us signing the midfielder suitable to allow Pogba to play in his best role. The Matic-Herrera-Pogba combo was the closest to a balanced midfield that we used, and it had great success with a fantastic win rate.

However everything changed when we bought Bruno. His best position is basically the same as Pogba's best position, just slightly pushed up a bit in a 4231 instead of a 433. The same two players that we should have had playing behind Pogba are the same two we should now be trying to have behind Bruno. Two players who are both decent defensively, fairly good on the ball, and between them can control the team and the tempo of the match.

Once we signed Bruno and he had the impact that he's had, I simply don't see how we can fit both of them in the team on a regular basis unless we move one of them out of position and hope it works - Pogba onto the left wing or Bruno perhaps in a false #9.
 
Carl said:
It's hardly surprising a dinosaur like Mourinho wasn't able to get the best out of him.

Pogba is so unbelievably talented. This place really makes me laugh sometimes.

Redcafe: We need better players to win the league

Also Redcafe: Get rid of Pogba
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Are you Carl Anka? The same bloke whose solution to fix the Pogba conundrum was to just tell him he doesn't have to defend any more?

We need balance. And Pogba makes the team imbalanced. Unbelievable talent or otherwise.

For us, he is a luxury player that we don't have the luxury of playing.
 
He can do a job there, he can do a job in midfield but it really is big time decision for Ole and his staff. No more fecking around now.

Either play him as a CM and accept the good coming with the bad or don't. Since Rashford is coming back and we have Sancho, a definite decision has to be made. It's time for Ole to show us for what he is about.

We cannot keep playing around this situation.
 
Borys said:
Not that I think national football has much leverage on club football, but both Bruno and Pogba are always partnered with two defensively sound players around in midfield.

In response to your second paragraph I kind of agree, but I also think many many defensive midfielders will look out of depth next to Pogba/Bruno - and the chances of signing mythical "prime Kante" are slim anyway.
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This is the problem and what too many of our fans think is possible. There is no player in world football that will hold the midfield alone. Kante would look like shit trying to do it himself. Bruno plays like a second striker in many games and Pogba would rather be further forward. Unless Pogba is extremely disciplined (and that is wasting his ability), I don't see how we realistically play both Bruno and Pogba in the midfield.

I love Pogba, but Bruno signing has taken away the position that Pogba is best in. Bruno is obviously not going anywhere, so I think Pogba should probably just leave and we buy a midfielder that can play deeper in midfield to a higher level.

The criticism of him does frustrate me a bit. United paid a lot of money for Pogba and only played him in his best position in such short periods. When he played with Herrera and Matic, he was very, very good. He's not going to be consistent as a DLP. He can do the job, but he won't be good every game. People want him to be that player, but he's better further forward.
 
I’d sooner find a different position for Bruno. Pogba is the best player we have and we must do everything to keep him.
 
The 433 with a Pogba Bruno Partnership and a Matic first half.

Ronaldo is back and that means Bruno is more a creator than a goalscorer for United more so than ever.

Start Bruno in to midfield - because he dropping in to it anyway; and pair him with Pogba. As our version of Modric, Kroos or De Bryune and Silva.

Bruno Fernandes has some defensive ability that can make up for Pogba's weaknesses.

Shield those 2's back with Matic for the first Half in a 433 to grab an early lead before switching Matic for Fred or Mctominay in the 2nd Half.


With Bruno and Pogba as our deeper creators, It means we should rely on Rashford, Sancho, Cavani, Martial, Ronaldo and Greenwood to score goals in the front 3.
 
Carl said:
Surprised at the amount happy to move Pogba on, in the belief that somehow losing arguably our best player will help things.

Pogba is not the problem guys. And if Ole can't make it work with all that talent then that's who we should be moving on. And I say that as part of the Ole In argument.
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By adding Ole in the argument means you need to add the manager's system. May be Pogba just doesn't suit to Ole's system, thus, those people might made a valid point about moving Pogba on. Whether it is the correct thing or no, we will only know when it's done.
 
Can't play centrally, can't play left. The only thing consistent about him is his inconsistency. Hoping and praying he doesn't re-sign.
 
This boy is a natural born CM. MAX LCM or yeah, of course. Against Salford or Norwegian division 7. You can play Pogba as CB too. And it still work.

But as top level. Natural wingers and wide players are really quick and skillful. If not. You get to have a foot like Beckham to play as Right midfield player.
 
Reminds me of Coutinho at Liverpool, good player but just doesn't fit in the squad anywhere.

Let him go and bring in a more complete all-round midfielder.
 
Ali Dia said:
I don’t get how you guys think Mc T (or Pogba) can play there but fred can’t. Mct doesn’t get on the ball or make anything happen. He doesn’t tackle much. Didn’t he have something like 25 passes against Villa?
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He had 22 passes and 33 touches on the ball in 80 minutes. Fred, for comparison, had 45 passes and 58 passes in 90 minutes; the Villa midfielders had similar numbers to McTominay but in a team that had 40% possession. Ronaldo attempted more passes than McTominay.

The idea of putting him alone to the base of the midfield behind Bruno and Pogba is funny.
 
Remember when we tried playing Scholes as a left winger? No of course not, we were never as stupid as Sven. Play Pogba in midfield with McT and tell the latter to play a more disciplined defensive role. It won’t be perfect but it will allow us play 3 of Rashford, Ronaldo, Sancho or Greenwood.
 
Pogba is a wide midfielder just as Beckham was a wide right midfielder and not a winger.
 
Siorac said:
He had 22 passes and 33 touches on the ball in 80 minutes. Fred, for comparison, had 45 passes and 58 passes in 90 minutes; the Villa midfielders had similar numbers to McTominay but in a team that had 40% possession. Ronaldo attempted more passes than McTominay.

The idea of putting him alone to the base of the midfield behind Bruno and Pogba is funny.
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Yet thats where he played in the europa league final and was head and shoulders above every one else.

Breaking up play, recycling possesion, plugging holes, winning aerial duels, he even pinged a few nice long passes and was attempting to give us some tempo by driving through the midfield.

When he plays with Fred, Fred is the one that sits and plays the 6 role, Mctom plays the 8 box to box role he runs around making tackles, plays quick transitions and gets forward to support attacks. You would fully expect in game where we dominated possession Fred to see alot more of the ball.
 
Longshanks said:
Yet thats where he played in the europa league final and was head and shoulders above every one else.
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That's not where he played in the EL final at all.

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Siorac said:
That's not where he played in the EL final at all.

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Being as though we spent alot of time with the ball with our defence pushed high against a low block its not a surprise to see he had alot of touches in support of the attack, but he still did alot of work in the dm position winning possesion for us, which is pretty much the no 6 main job.
 
Longshanks said:
Being as though we spent alot of time with the ball with our defence pushed high against a low block its not a surprise to see he had alot of touches in support of the attack, but he still did alot of work in the dm position winning possesion for us, which is pretty much the no 6 main job.
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Still, Pogba occupied deeper and more central positions than him, on average. You can check his heatmap on whoscored.
 
Siorac said:
Still, Pogba occupied deeper and more central positions than him, on average. You can check his heatmap on whoscored.
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This is correct. Pogba spent the whole game deeper than McTominay. McTominay was getting forward and joining the attack. Pogba spent most of his time picking up the ball from our CB's and playing it forward.

I can't remember any games where McTominay has started and played as the deepest midfielder for us.
 
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