What the best in the league? 13 goals & 7 assists in one season 2016/2017. Pogba got 13 goals & 9 assists this season.
Pogba Future
- Thread starter wolvored
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What the best in the league? 13 goals & 7 assists in one season 2016/2017. Pogba got 13 goals & 9 assists this season.
I don't give a damn what he is like when playing for France and I certainly don't give a damn for his pep talks when he is one of first players on the slack-off list.
He clearly has a cult following in the dressing room and his lazy and careless attitude affects the players that look up to him. That's what I think is happening and feel free to call me later on it if I'm wrong.
Obviously he's not the main problem in the team but, considering he's not living up to his talent or his price tag, that he wants to feck off to Madrid, and that we can still get top dollar for him my vote is go. I would not remember him fondly.
But if he stays, I want him to shut me up. Don't think it will happen though.
The hardest thing about Pogba leaving, is going to be listening to the same pundits who have ripped into him all season spend all of next season referencing him as the dominating quality that we are so lacking in midfield now. “You could rely on him to pick out a pass or charge into the box for a header”.
That’s going to be good fun.
That’s going to be good fun.
What was up with that fan heckling him. Bit ridiculous really
How do you explain United pre-Pogba? Someone else had a cult following in the dressing room?
Same old tired, lazy tropes - lazy, slacks off etc but he leads the team in so many different areas
Goals, assists, chances created etc if you want to dig people out for being lazy perhaps not the person in the teams that's doing the most
Just say you don't like him with your chest rather than making dumb excuses
Wayne Rooney ?
There's only one way he starts putting performances week in week out is getting competition. At the moment he thinks he's entitled to starting every game - and honestly he is, looking at the quality of the rest of the midfielders, he is.
Sorry to look at City or Liverpool, but they don't really have nailed starters in midfield. You don't know if it's going to be Milner or Wijnaldum or Keita. Hell, even the almighty D Silva and KDB are not getting as much playing time.
We should bring in someone who will challenge him, someone who will bench him. If the message is "I don't like your tweets and I don't think your attitude is good enough" you'll get negative response from fans and pundits.
If the message however is "Well, Paul, he gets the team going and we are winning games because of him, he's playing better than you, I can't bench him so you can update your YouTube channel" then that will set a fire in his gut and a response.
Sorry to look at City or Liverpool, but they don't really have nailed starters in midfield. You don't know if it's going to be Milner or Wijnaldum or Keita. Hell, even the almighty D Silva and KDB are not getting as much playing time.
We should bring in someone who will challenge him, someone who will bench him. If the message is "I don't like your tweets and I don't think your attitude is good enough" you'll get negative response from fans and pundits.
If the message however is "Well, Paul, he gets the team going and we are winning games because of him, he's playing better than you, I can't bench him so you can update your YouTube channel" then that will set a fire in his gut and a response.
Before I go:
https://www.redcafe.net/goto/post?id=24141450#post-24141450
Maybe now you throw that 'lazy' rubbish in the bin with the rest of the trash opinions you've expressed in here
PP gets marked or pressed by two players almost everytime he gets the ball or moves.
For a team that was functioning or with decent ballhandlers, this inbalance could have been taken advantage... But we are not able to to it, simply because the players are taking to many touches and got a sub-par ability on the ball.
For a team that was functioning or with decent ballhandlers, this inbalance could have been taken advantage... But we are not able to to it, simply because the players are taking to many touches and got a sub-par ability on the ball.
All this talk of how many goals he has scored, how many were pens and how many from open play? Remove the penalties and his stats are going to look much worse.
He is supremely talented, but something isn't right with his attitude.
Perhaps I am being old fashioned and not in touch any more, but for the sake of team spirit I'd much rather have someone less talented but who you can rely on to give 100% every game.
From everything I've read it seems he has a bit of a following in the changing room but what sort of example does that set? I'll turn up when I can be bothered, thats what the youngsters are seeing from him.
If I were Ole I'd get rid for £100m+ and use that money on someone reliable. You cannot build a team around someone (as Ole said he would do) who might be 1/10 or might be 9/10 (more often 1/10 than 9/10).
He is supremely talented, but something isn't right with his attitude.
Perhaps I am being old fashioned and not in touch any more, but for the sake of team spirit I'd much rather have someone less talented but who you can rely on to give 100% every game.
From everything I've read it seems he has a bit of a following in the changing room but what sort of example does that set? I'll turn up when I can be bothered, thats what the youngsters are seeing from him.
If I were Ole I'd get rid for £100m+ and use that money on someone reliable. You cannot build a team around someone (as Ole said he would do) who might be 1/10 or might be 9/10 (more often 1/10 than 9/10).
He'll probably run down his contract to give him some leverage on his future.
Lies, damn lies and statistics. Despite the list cherry picking the players that fit the OP agenda, he's behind some players that occupy the same role. Also, it's not unusual for central midfielders to achieve a good running distance since their position requires constant movement and less sprinting. Not to mention a big guy like Pogba covers a lot of distance by jogging alone.
Still, you have to factor that Pogba wasn't lazy for the entirety of the season. He had some wonderful performances where he really put his heart into. The fact that he can only do that when he feels like is where his laziness comes in. Shoulders down, endless ball holding until dispossession, hoof balls, careless marking, all of that are in his package in the bad runs under both managers this season.
You might as well refrain from his example and stop making lazy points.
I don't have anything against him other than the fact he's not trying hard enough after signing for the club that I love for a world record price tag.
Believe me, I was defending him the same way you are not too long ago, but I finally grew tired of his attitude and I'm convinced he'll never give his best in a MUFC jersey.
I'd love to have full Pogba playing for us, but if half Pogba is all we can have I'd rather trade him for money that can buy us at least 3 good players.
Yet, if he remains, I'll hope that I am wrong and that he can help Man. United with all the talent that he obviously has.
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Maybe. Maybe not. Like I said before, there are other problems in the club in this decade that are not Pogba related, and I don't think Pogba is our biggest problem, far from it. But if the question is, right now, would you cash in 150m or so for Pogba, the answer is a big yes from me, for all the reasons I already exposed.
What does really say it all, is talk of Real Madrid, for so long the world transfer record smashes, with their sky high wage bill, actually suggesting Pogba is on too much!
If ever something was Woodward's legacy!
If ever something was Woodward's legacy!
Actually if you read the rest of the thread you'll know these stats aren't correct.
Quoted from that thread:
Like I said, cherry picked misleading stats to fit an agenda.
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Yeah, that thread certainly backfired somewhat.
The fact is that he covered less distance per 90 than all other United midfielders this season.
Less than all T6 midfielders except one, in fact.
It doesn't prove that he's "lazy" (that term is open to interpretation), but you certainly can't use sheer numbers to boost any pro argument in this particular case.
The fact is that he covered less distance per 90 than all other United midfielders this season.
Less than all T6 midfielders except one, in fact.
It doesn't prove that he's "lazy" (that term is open to interpretation), but you certainly can't use sheer numbers to boost any pro argument in this particular case.
Yeah this stat was slaughtered. I said there should be a threadmark for the correct ones as this thread is now misleading.
Anyway, regarding stats: the reasonable way to approach the numbers is to separate Pogba's productivity (goals, assists, key passes, whatever you consider relevant) as an attacking midfielder from his output as a deeper, central midfielder.
The former role is what I consider his best, obviously so, and the only one I see him shining for us in, on a (more or less) consistent basis. The latter is what he could easily end up playing for us based on what the manager has said.
He needs to put up very good numbers, exceptionally good ones even, if we're to conclude that what people perceive as "laziness" is worth it in that deeper role.
As an AM on the left (his old free role, the one he played for Juve) this is of far less importance. In said role, he's the wild card, the icing on the cake, call it what you will - and you don't except a player like that to do a great deal of heavy lifting.
The former role is what I consider his best, obviously so, and the only one I see him shining for us in, on a (more or less) consistent basis. The latter is what he could easily end up playing for us based on what the manager has said.
He needs to put up very good numbers, exceptionally good ones even, if we're to conclude that what people perceive as "laziness" is worth it in that deeper role.
As an AM on the left (his old free role, the one he played for Juve) this is of far less importance. In said role, he's the wild card, the icing on the cake, call it what you will - and you don't except a player like that to do a great deal of heavy lifting.
There was no 'rest of the thread' to read when posted. Even on the last page with more accurate stats, it said he runs over 10km, if that's lazy then what does that make you and I?Actually if you read the rest of the thread you'll know these stats aren't correct.
Pogba is being used a a scapegoat. This is media driven bigotry (think Raheem Sterling's situation). We loose and Pogba's picture is on the back pages not the DDG for all his mistakes, not Rashford for all his misses, not Young for giving the ball away, not calamity Phil Jones and not fat Luke Shaw. Reasons DDG white, Rashord and Young are British born so can be considers "one of us", Jones and Shaw are English and white. Who out of them has performed better than Pogba for the last 2 seasons? But Pogba get the flak 'cos he plays for France and is of African decent. It's sad to see how shortsighted us so called Man Utd fans are. If Pogba wasn't here this season we'd have finished 10th. Disguised racism and bigotry from the media is what I call it and its a shame a lot of our fans have fallen for it. You don't have to use blatantly offensive words to be a bigot.
Everyone proved he's lazier than the rest of central midfielders if you actually read the rest of the thread.
This. Alan shearer was like he shouldn't have faced the supporters but if he had gone down the tunnel they'd have said "look he doesn't care to face the fans, why is he walking off the pitch and ignoring them bla bla... The English media is a scum.
I'm very 50/50 with Pogba.
It's because at Juventus I didn't think he was all that great - he seemed like a player that was a good at alot of things rather than being this world class midfielder that was great at a certain role in midfield. Next to him played Pirlo who was what I regarded the opposite to Pogba.
Then in France at the world Cup - again I thought he was good especially as he played this withdrawn, static CDM/CM role but I didn't think he was especially stand out either - France had 2 world class players for every position & Pogba or not they would be in the final & the same goes for every one of their players. Again I didn't really see what the lad was doing on the pitch - whilst Kante I could see him and his defensive ability and tenacity - I sat there glad we had a world Cup winner in our squad but unsure of what he actually does and how he actually does it.
And that's where we are today. Arguably 2 managers at United still don't know this 'Pogba position/zone' that gets the best out of him whilst Deschamps just stuck him in a 2 man midfield and told him to stick to doing defensive duties.
In my opinion - we got to use him as the player who plays for France - letting him play a role where he has 'duties' and stop thinking of him as some midfielder that has these wonder attacking abilities yet can play in CM. Play him as a CDM next to another CDM or play him as a CM next to a CDM whilst telling him to play a defensive game first and foremost. If that doesn't happen then sell the lad because he isn't suddenly just going to get better or consistent - I didn't see that at Juventus, France or at United.
It's because at Juventus I didn't think he was all that great - he seemed like a player that was a good at alot of things rather than being this world class midfielder that was great at a certain role in midfield. Next to him played Pirlo who was what I regarded the opposite to Pogba.
Then in France at the world Cup - again I thought he was good especially as he played this withdrawn, static CDM/CM role but I didn't think he was especially stand out either - France had 2 world class players for every position & Pogba or not they would be in the final & the same goes for every one of their players. Again I didn't really see what the lad was doing on the pitch - whilst Kante I could see him and his defensive ability and tenacity - I sat there glad we had a world Cup winner in our squad but unsure of what he actually does and how he actually does it.
And that's where we are today. Arguably 2 managers at United still don't know this 'Pogba position/zone' that gets the best out of him whilst Deschamps just stuck him in a 2 man midfield and told him to stick to doing defensive duties.
In my opinion - we got to use him as the player who plays for France - letting him play a role where he has 'duties' and stop thinking of him as some midfielder that has these wonder attacking abilities yet can play in CM. Play him as a CDM next to another CDM or play him as a CM next to a CDM whilst telling him to play a defensive game first and foremost. If that doesn't happen then sell the lad because he isn't suddenly just going to get better or consistent - I didn't see that at Juventus, France or at United.
This is wrong. I have never heard any criticism of Pogba that was even remotely racist. He gets more flak than anyone else because he is our record signing, a World Cup winner and somebody expected to deliver. He hasn’t delivered and mostly looks like he doesn’t try or care. That’s why he gets more criticism that other players. The “Pogba movement” on this site will come up with any reason to defend their man and that’s fine but it’s not down to race, no way.
It’s not just wrong but total nonsense. ‘The media’ are all racists and bigots but are OK with Ashley Young or Marcus Rashford cause they’re born in England plus the other hundreds of foreign, non-white players also in the league are all OK.
It’s only French black players apparently - despite the media voting Kante the player of the year a couple of years ago and fawning over him massively at every opportunity. Makele, Vieira, Henry seemed to do OK, some (maybe all?) of them even being invited to be part of said media.
So it’s either an incredibly precise criteria of bigotry (which posters should have to provide evidence of, rather than throwing accusations around) or the IMO more likely scenario, that everybody who isn’t a Pogba acolyte - the majority of the media, opposition fans, a lot of our fan base - see a player with big flaws in his game, who hasn’t been anything close to what his ‘superstar’ status would suggest.
'Pogba movement'
Been seeing anyone not joining the angry lynch mob labelled as a fanboy and not a 'true' fan of the club on here as of late,didn't think things could get back to being as toxic as they were under Jose's last few weeks but here we are again
Been seeing anyone not joining the angry lynch mob labelled as a fanboy and not a 'true' fan of the club on here as of late,didn't think things could get back to being as toxic as they were under Jose's last few weeks but here we are again
"Even on the last page with more accurate stats..."
It's lazy compared to other midfielders stats which people pointed several times in this thread too.
Did you think the criticism of Sterling was balanced and fair?
'It's lazy compared to other midfielders' - you're talking like the differences are huge, difference between him and Matic for example is less than a KM. I'm praying that you're a picture of fitness to be sitting here calling people lazy
'It's lazy compared to other midfielders' - you're talking like the differences are huge, difference between him and Matic for example is less than a KM. I'm praying that you're a picture of fitness to be sitting here calling people lazy
Yeah because Matic is known to be workaholic and moving all around the pitch.
Black players have unrealistic expectations to perform all the time otherwise they're labelled as shit or solely defined by their biggest weaknesses and by their off field activity. Its been going on for years, Andy Cole got it too and Paul Parker as well even further back. White players are not treated the same, no fecking way. Latin players are also always expected to be good technical players. Hear the name Emilio Lopez and you're thinking it already without watching him play.
Every black player linked to this club will raise questions about technical ability, intelligence and attitude, laziness, etc. Positive stereotypes are usually physicality, athleticism, strength, speed etc. You clearly don't see the patterns or recognize the stereotypes.
Like I said, picture of fitness
No, even when sterling was delivering great performances he was getting stick from the press. Also, ridiculous stuff from his private life was on the back pages. What he got was completely racist. All I have heard about Pogba has been based on his on field performances. Which have not been good enough.
But good enough for him to be in the team of the year. Rashford, purely on performances, gets nothing but praise from the media.
Pogba isn’t without flaw, but he’s better than the rest of our players, and most in the league. The reporting on him is massively disproportionate to that fact, and it is a fact.
Any United fan baying for the sale of Paul Pogba should not write to me about ‘accepting mediocrity’ for challenging blind criticism of Ed Woodward for example. We have one outfield player who can get into any side in the world. And he’s the first one half of the forum want sold.
Has Pogba performed at level we thought he would consistently? No
Has been as bad as people are making it out to be? NO
Should he be sold? Not before all of Young/Smalling/Jones/Matic/Mata/Lingard/Rashy/Martial/Lukaku/Rojo/Darmain are sold first.
Not a consistent player but a easy target. No one in our team is consistent at the moment but they're not criticised. Simply wouldn't be surprised by all those media whores saying he should be sold to only then Give him praise for doing the exact thing at Real.
Has been as bad as people are making it out to be? NO
Should he be sold? Not before all of Young/Smalling/Jones/Matic/Mata/Lingard/Rashy/Martial/Lukaku/Rojo/Darmain are sold first.
Not a consistent player but a easy target. No one in our team is consistent at the moment but they're not criticised. Simply wouldn't be surprised by all those media whores saying he should be sold to only then Give him praise for doing the exact thing at Real.
I agree with everything you have said but I don’t see any if that in the criticism of Pogba. I’ve reported some posts here for repeating those stereotypes. (another common one is questioning the age of young African players)
From 6:08, I agree with everything Rosenior says (ignore the clickbait headline).
https://youtu. be/CJhnHbVxuzs
(Can't add a link apparently, delete the space between youtu. be).
Pogba's a great player, but not the player we need right now.
We need to get back to being a team. Some players make the team play well but go relatively unnoticed (the fabled Makelele role from days gone by); others look like they're playing well but hinder the rest of the team (Stevie Me for years at Anfield).
Pogba is the cherry on the cake while we're still beating the eggs. Hopefully we'll mix in some flour this summer.
https://youtu. be/CJhnHbVxuzs
(Can't add a link apparently, delete the space between youtu. be).
Pogba's a great player, but not the player we need right now.
We need to get back to being a team. Some players make the team play well but go relatively unnoticed (the fabled Makelele role from days gone by); others look like they're playing well but hinder the rest of the team (Stevie Me for years at Anfield).
Pogba is the cherry on the cake while we're still beating the eggs. Hopefully we'll mix in some flour this summer.