So a luxury player basically?
Pogba Future
- Thread starter wolvored
- Start date
Sell, lazy wants to do the step overs drag backs but not the graft. No doubted he is talented but lack of effort is not befitting a utd player. Not just Pogba same goes for anyone playing in that shirt
No I'd say a brilliant albeit flawed player who is surrounded by 6th place caliber players.
We have maybe 3 players that can get into top sides.
So he needs great players to watch his back so he can work his magic. Definition of a luxury player then.
I mean sure he should get better players anyway but somehow I see him picking games even then.
I'd agree with that. He's a very specific type of player, and in that way, tactically limited for a team. In a different way, so is Lukaku.
An enormously talented inconsistent player with a terrible bottom level is how I'd describe him. IMV that's lack of a right mental approach. He's as good as he wants to be.
10 goals 10 assists probably more. Paul Pogba is NOT the problem.
He's not no I agree, but I was going through the squad earlier and he's only about 1 of 6 I would keep if I were a billionaire and could change things in the Summer.
Solskjaer has done that. 2 bad games don't change that. It's his effort that's been lacking for the last 2 games.
1) Play well enough to attract the attention of Barca/Madrid - Check
2) Sulk your way out of the club to ensure the deal gets done - In Progress
Not sure what that has to do with my post. Barcelona and Madrid don't need to be attracted, they've probably seen enough of him the last few years to know that he's a very good player. If he's engineering a move, then I hope we have plan to replace him. I hope we manage to keep him.
I thought sacking Mourinho means He is staying ?
Remember the discussion we had after Tottenham game where we were lucky to win it 1-0?
2 games? Since liverpool game I would say.
To know that he ain't worth 90 m at that point. Madrid ain't the wisest purchaser either. Perez is notorious for galactico signings which didn't make much sense on many occasions.
"He needs the right sort of players to support and get the best out of him."
So when he plays like he'd rather have the day off its the fault of the players around him!
Do we teleport different players in when he performs well then or something?
So when he plays like he'd rather have the day off its the fault of the players around him!
Do we teleport different players in when he performs well then or something?
Yeah, come to think of it, he was poor against Arsenal and Southampton as well, my bad!
Really need him to step up in these games. Is he distracted or fed up with the mediocrity around him or both? Whichever it is, he's not captain material.
Getting tired of seeing this argument.
He's not going a. The manager said he's happy here and the team will be built around him.where did people get this nonsense idea he's pushing to move? Do we want to speculate over the managers words? Nothing much to see here actually.
To be totally honest with you,I dont think Pogba really gives a shit.If Madrid come knocking then he and his agent will get to work on a deal.
United would be wise to chain the chairs and tables to the floor.
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He's still a very good player and was integral to France's WC win. Considering for how much Coutinho went and considering that we don't want him to leave, we should at least still demand quite a lot, whether he's worth it, I honestly couldn't care less. Tranfer fees have been absurd for me ever since Zidane went to Madrid.
My problem with the idea of selling Paul Pogba is two fold.
1. It makes us look un-ambitious, nor being able to hold onto our only world class outfield player.
2. When we fail to replace him with a proper star player, point 1 will be confirmed.
Pogba might not be Messi or Ronaldo, but he's key to our team. He'll always be inconsistent I reckon. Very few players are consistently match winners. It's not really fair to expect him to be. We should built quality around him so we're not reliant on him. If we had more ambitious owners - I'd say sell if the right price comes by.
1. It makes us look un-ambitious, nor being able to hold onto our only world class outfield player.
2. When we fail to replace him with a proper star player, point 1 will be confirmed.
Pogba might not be Messi or Ronaldo, but he's key to our team. He'll always be inconsistent I reckon. Very few players are consistently match winners. It's not really fair to expect him to be. We should built quality around him so we're not reliant on him. If we had more ambitious owners - I'd say sell if the right price comes by.
Yep, that's one of the biggest reasons why we should keep him and probably are looking to keep him. At least for another season.
Pogba has dropped below 6 out of 10 performances for the past 4 to 5 games now. I don't expect him to score or assist in every game but the very least control the tempo of the game by dominating the midfield. More often than not, someone from the opposition will try to manhandle him to get him off the ball and they usually are successful too because he'll just stand there and whine while the opposition is away. I've been a fan of Pogba since he was 17 and was scoring those worldies in the u18s and stuff and wanted him, Tunicliffe and Ravel Morrison to dominate our midfield. With that being said, Pogba just doesn't have the discipline to succeed. He's naturally talented and could do so much more. It's great giving a pep talk to the team at half time in the changing room but it a lot more when you motivate the rest of the team on the pitch with your performance. Pogba just hasn't done that when the rest of the team were practically atrocious. We needed a captain's performance from Pogba today (since our actual captain got himself sent off for pure stupidity) and he didn't produce. Pogba, you're better off in Madrid. I rather take a player with a little less flair than you but will consistently deliver 7.5/10 performances.
Coutinho wanted to join Barcelona and forced a move and he was Liverpool's best player back then and they've managed to build a team that's dependent on multiple players and not just one. Likewise, we should build a team that's not Pogba centric because every team has learned the trick that when you stop Pogba, you stop United. Pogba for 155m is a good recoupment from what we bought him back. Reinvest the same amount in getting Ndombele and another player who will work their socks off for the team. Lukaku's time is up as well... For a big man, didn't do much damage in the oppostion's penalty box...
Coutinho wanted to join Barcelona and forced a move and he was Liverpool's best player back then and they've managed to build a team that's dependent on multiple players and not just one. Likewise, we should build a team that's not Pogba centric because every team has learned the trick that when you stop Pogba, you stop United. Pogba for 155m is a good recoupment from what we bought him back. Reinvest the same amount in getting Ndombele and another player who will work their socks off for the team. Lukaku's time is up as well... For a big man, didn't do much damage in the oppostion's penalty box...
World cup pogba is very different to juventus pogba and united pogba.
He played as a b2b midfield controller and excelled and even won, but that attitude of team spirit does not hang around in club football. Juventus had the midfielders cover for his mistakes and sloppiness, but he has never matured as a player since than where he is still looking for a platform so that he can take all the plaudits from that platform which isn't available here.
I know everyone here is a psychiatrist but I think he just looked completely gassed today.
End of a season after a World Cup win, his legs might just be a bit gone. Even if he's bored or whatever, I'd expect him to give the tiny, aging Moutinho problems in central midfield but it was Dendoncker who looked like the fresh, long striding athlete in the center of the park.
End of a season after a World Cup win, his legs might just be a bit gone. Even if he's bored or whatever, I'd expect him to give the tiny, aging Moutinho problems in central midfield but it was Dendoncker who looked like the fresh, long striding athlete in the center of the park.
People making excuses for him....He played shit thats it, he has been playing shit lately. If he is truly worldclass as many of us think then he needs to start showing consistency. He had a great 10-12 game run under Ole where he showed what he can do, but that doesnt take away the fact that he has been playing really shitty lately.
Any offer over 120m take and run .
None of that changes that he's easily our most talented player and since he's lost form in the last few games, we as a team have suffered. We are far too reliant on him.
I am also really not sure what point you are trying to make here. That a player playing a team sport needs his team-mates? Yes, he's surrounded by better players, while playing for France, hence him playing better, same thing, when he was at Juventus. Ronaldo and Messi need team-mates as well, for some reason Messi hasn't been as successful with Argentina as he's been with Barcelona. His best position is further forward in midfield and with freedom, people pointing that out aren't wrong and they are also not making excuses for him. Us being consistently poor in the transfer market and appointing the wrong managers (hopefully Ole is the right one) is why we are where we are.
Finally, I think his effort recently has been lacklustre and I can understand why people are fed up with him, but we still should be looking to keep him. If we lose him this summer, it will make it even more difficult next season.
It's just so basic that people associate his performance with him thinking about Madrid. Do you really think players, in the middle of a professional game, are thinking about how they can't be bothered because they want to play somewhere else? You're talking about the elite of the elite competitors. I'm sure Pogba wanted to play a good game, just like every one on the team, they're just not that good. This team peaked when Ole came in and the schedule was soft. It was the perfect storm for a morale/form boost but now it's regressed to the mean. This is a team that was always going to need reinforcements, and while OGS got close to top 4 and it could have been achieved, just the fact that it was a possibility is already a positive given where this team was when Mourinho got the boot.
What is worrying is that Van Gaal wasn't that far off in his assessment of OGS in that he isn't that different from Mourinho in his approach to the game, at least in the last few games we've seen.
What is worrying is that Van Gaal wasn't that far off in his assessment of OGS in that he isn't that different from Mourinho in his approach to the game, at least in the last few games we've seen.
I've been giving this a lot of thought recently especially after tonight's game and his best years are probably still ahead of him but he suits a 4-1-2-3 formation as a left sided BTB no 8 and needs a Kante type player to mind that covers for him when he gives the ball away so frequently by trying something expansive to really get the most out of him!
I'm going to be wholy confrontational and say that the club may well end up playing Europa League Football next season so we should cash in on Pogba if any bid of £150M comes in and even more confrontational and suggest that De Gea should also be sold if a bid of 90M comes in and ofcourse Sanchez should be the first out the door providing a bid of £35 M comes in probably from China.
My point, De Gea looks as if he wants out with Mata and Herrea so unlike the latter 2 players we need to get a fee so he doesn't walk for a free and we get a decent transfer value. Coutinho left Liverpool for £140M, the club used the money to invest well and improved their team imeasurably while Coutinho found the grass is not greener at Barcelona!
Seven years of mediocrity suggest that Pogba is everything that's wrong with the club and it's transfer policy, yes he's a great player but is he a Great Manchester United Player? No, so use the 150M+90M+35M for our 3 so called World Class players and go for broke in the summer transfer window.
Move on Herrera, Mata, S Romero, Darmian, Valencia, Rojo, Fred and totally rebuild the Squad with £450-500M we would have available after selling our 3 most expensive players on the wage bill and completely overhaul the squad finally creating balance and high energy younger group where no one is on more than 250k per week. Sit them down and tell them players who earn 300-400k per week win League Titles and European Cups!!!!
The Squad needs 3 GoalKeepers Buy J Oblak -60M and Make D Henderson and J Pereira fight it out to be no 2, the rest can go.
The Squad needs 2 Right Footed Rightbacks and 2 Left footed Left Backs. So We need to buy B Chillwell - 50M and W Bissaka - 40M to compete with L Shaw and D Dalot with E Baily or P Jones as Back Up.
We would have V Lindelof, E Baily, C Smalling and P Jones as Centrebacks so we must get a Left footed Centre Back that is World Class - only optio K Koulibaly - 90M
In Midfield we have the most ineffective, lack of mobility and creativity of any United Midfield within the last 20 years. Keep Matic to play Europa League with Andreas Pereirra and S McTominay and buy 2 Elite level CMF's and 1 young E - D Rice -45M & T Kross 50M A Rabiot Free
We lack goals, a talisman and genuine star quality upfront since Zlatan got injured and Rooney declined but even that squad which won the Europa League initially had Depay, Rooney, Martial, Januaji, Lingard, Mata, Zlatan and Rashford. Goals and creativity compare to an Aging Juan Mata, Lukaku the lump, Martial, Rashford, Mercenary Sanchez and Rashford. Simply a disgrace.
We need to Buy J Sancho -90M and M Icardi 60M, promote M Greenwood, T Chong and A Gomez giving us 8 or 9 options when added to Lukaku, Martial, Rashford and Lingard, the club should be playing 4 of these players in our home games in a 4-2-3-1 or 442 formation and having 2 or 3 of these attacking players on the bench to always look to have a cutting edge to change the game.
In conclusion Europa league was the making of Harry Kane and it can be for players like Greenwood, Gomez, Laird and Chong as well and although £485M sounds ridiculous, it would probably represent a Net Spend of £185M to harmonise the squad, decrease the age and most impirtantly improve, creativity and our chances of competing for a title again, this unfortunately is the reality of how far we've slipped and what would be required to be a European and Domestic Force again!
I'm going to be wholy confrontational and say that the club may well end up playing Europa League Football next season so we should cash in on Pogba if any bid of £150M comes in and even more confrontational and suggest that De Gea should also be sold if a bid of 90M comes in and ofcourse Sanchez should be the first out the door providing a bid of £35 M comes in probably from China.
My point, De Gea looks as if he wants out with Mata and Herrea so unlike the latter 2 players we need to get a fee so he doesn't walk for a free and we get a decent transfer value. Coutinho left Liverpool for £140M, the club used the money to invest well and improved their team imeasurably while Coutinho found the grass is not greener at Barcelona!
Seven years of mediocrity suggest that Pogba is everything that's wrong with the club and it's transfer policy, yes he's a great player but is he a Great Manchester United Player? No, so use the 150M+90M+35M for our 3 so called World Class players and go for broke in the summer transfer window.
Move on Herrera, Mata, S Romero, Darmian, Valencia, Rojo, Fred and totally rebuild the Squad with £450-500M we would have available after selling our 3 most expensive players on the wage bill and completely overhaul the squad finally creating balance and high energy younger group where no one is on more than 250k per week. Sit them down and tell them players who earn 300-400k per week win League Titles and European Cups!!!!
The Squad needs 3 GoalKeepers Buy J Oblak -60M and Make D Henderson and J Pereira fight it out to be no 2, the rest can go.
The Squad needs 2 Right Footed Rightbacks and 2 Left footed Left Backs. So We need to buy B Chillwell - 50M and W Bissaka - 40M to compete with L Shaw and D Dalot with E Baily or P Jones as Back Up.
We would have V Lindelof, E Baily, C Smalling and P Jones as Centrebacks so we must get a Left footed Centre Back that is World Class - only optio K Koulibaly - 90M
In Midfield we have the most ineffective, lack of mobility and creativity of any United Midfield within the last 20 years. Keep Matic to play Europa League with Andreas Pereirra and S McTominay and buy 2 Elite level CMF's and 1 young E - D Rice -45M & T Kross 50M A Rabiot Free
We lack goals, a talisman and genuine star quality upfront since Zlatan got injured and Rooney declined but even that squad which won the Europa League initially had Depay, Rooney, Martial, Januaji, Lingard, Mata, Zlatan and Rashford. Goals and creativity compare to an Aging Juan Mata, Lukaku the lump, Martial, Rashford, Mercenary Sanchez and Rashford. Simply a disgrace.
We need to Buy J Sancho -90M and M Icardi 60M, promote M Greenwood, T Chong and A Gomez giving us 8 or 9 options when added to Lukaku, Martial, Rashford and Lingard, the club should be playing 4 of these players in our home games in a 4-2-3-1 or 442 formation and having 2 or 3 of these attacking players on the bench to always look to have a cutting edge to change the game.
In conclusion Europa league was the making of Harry Kane and it can be for players like Greenwood, Gomez, Laird and Chong as well and although £485M sounds ridiculous, it would probably represent a Net Spend of £185M to harmonise the squad, decrease the age and most impirtantly improve, creativity and our chances of competing for a title again, this unfortunately is the reality of how far we've slipped and what would be required to be a European and Domestic Force again!
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Why do people talk about him winning a world Cup with France? France is the strongest national team in the world post spain's era & its going to be that way whether Pogba plays in midfield or not. They have way too many good players that could have done his role.
Giroud is more important than Pogba in the French team that is for sure.
He had a burst of games when solskjaer took over where he was absolute world class. Since then he's taken his foot back off the gas though. I can't help but think his heads been turned. I think there's a few that might leave this summer who we'd prefer not to, especially if we miss out on champions league.
I feel like a big reason our attack is suffering so much is that he's forced into a deeper role. It's not his fault that Herrera and Matic's form went down the toilet. It's certainly not his fault that he's miles better at the latter two's position than anyone else in the squad, but it his fault that he's pouting and seems disinterested because of where he's being asked to play. I can't fault Ole here either because asking McTominay and Fred to play in a deeper role is a disaster waiting to happen, as we have seen. On paper and going by ability alone, Pogba is better than Herrera at 8. Playing Fred further forward hides his liabilities and plays to his strengths.
IF Pogba is sold, I would spend the money on a center forward befitting of the players that have played at that position for this club in the past. If we had that today, we win the game.
IF Pogba is sold, I would spend the money on a center forward befitting of the players that have played at that position for this club in the past. If we had that today, we win the game.
No. Remind me.
In the past, players wanted to come to us and stay because they knew we were challenging for titles, would be playing at the elite level of football (champions league) and earned top wages.
Problem now is that we are work in progress and footballers careers are very short. Do footballers that are established (age 22/23 plus) and have the opportunity to play for Barca, Real, City (at the moment), Munich, etc., and in most cases have up to ten years remaining at the top, want to take a punt by spending a third of their remaining professional career with a team that are work in progress in the hope that they will be at that level in two or three seasons? Especially players that are not even from the UK and can return to sunnier climates etc...!
I think that this is a big problem and building a team around one player is risky. Until we are back at the level where we can recruit and keep hold of established world class players, we need hungry talent that want to be part of something and still need to prove themselves and preferably British or have a long established affinity with the UK.. If we signed a Neymar or build our team around Pogba etc. then they may just leave next transfer window and your work in progress is set back another season or two. Don't get me wrong Pogba is here now and if he wants to stay we should try and keep him but we should build a team that can cope without him as a contingency and not buy a load more players that are in a similar position.
I think having Ole at the helm, instead of an established name may even help a little in that it may filter out the kind of players that we don't want and attract the kind of players who believe in the cause, want to prove themselves and want to be part of the resurgence. Would we be better off with a Neymar or spending that money on two or three of the best British players around under 26?
Problem now is that we are work in progress and footballers careers are very short. Do footballers that are established (age 22/23 plus) and have the opportunity to play for Barca, Real, City (at the moment), Munich, etc., and in most cases have up to ten years remaining at the top, want to take a punt by spending a third of their remaining professional career with a team that are work in progress in the hope that they will be at that level in two or three seasons? Especially players that are not even from the UK and can return to sunnier climates etc...!
I think that this is a big problem and building a team around one player is risky. Until we are back at the level where we can recruit and keep hold of established world class players, we need hungry talent that want to be part of something and still need to prove themselves and preferably British or have a long established affinity with the UK.. If we signed a Neymar or build our team around Pogba etc. then they may just leave next transfer window and your work in progress is set back another season or two. Don't get me wrong Pogba is here now and if he wants to stay we should try and keep him but we should build a team that can cope without him as a contingency and not buy a load more players that are in a similar position.
I think having Ole at the helm, instead of an established name may even help a little in that it may filter out the kind of players that we don't want and attract the kind of players who believe in the cause, want to prove themselves and want to be part of the resurgence. Would we be better off with a Neymar or spending that money on two or three of the best British players around under 26?
Exactly, I actually don't think he even had a great world cup, he was decent but certainly not their main player of the tournament the way some on here portrayed it. He's a good player in a very good team eg Juve and France. In those teams if he's having an off day there were other top quality players to pick up the slack. With us if he can't be bothered or isn't playing well we don't have another quality player to take over the midfield. It's a worrying situation. At times yesterday I liked Fred when he was picking up the ball from deep and playing in that probing busy type midfield role. I don't think he would be the long term answer but I'd prefer that type of player in our mid. Better version of that can help us run the midfield, dictate the pace. There can still be a role for Pogba here, but we'd need to splash out big to get the balance right with him in mid, which we've basically done every season Pogba has been here and we still can't find our balance yet in mid.
Who are these players then?
People talk about him winning the World Cup because its the greatest achievement in world football. He was a key player in their win. Of course, it's relevant when we talk about his ability.
Well what I meant was that Pogba wasn't the only special player acroos their first team. Giroud, griezzman, varane etc etc - I'm too busy to do the obvious.
Just off the top of my head players like ndombele, doucore could do what Pogba did for France - Ie settled down midfielder - maybe not for us where he is the flair clown midfielder