How many of Kane's goals for England are penalties?
Pick your most over-rated England player
- Thread starter noodlehair
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The 8th most expensive football player of all time, of course: Sir Deccy Rice.
Kane
i see Foden mentioned a lot but i thought he was generally tidy even if he drifted out of games at times he produced enough good moments to deserve his place. Having Harry Kane continuously behind him instead of in front was not helping him either.
Rice does what it says on the tin, i don't think he is particularly overrated as i did not hear many raving about him anyway.
i see Foden mentioned a lot but i thought he was generally tidy even if he drifted out of games at times he produced enough good moments to deserve his place. Having Harry Kane continuously behind him instead of in front was not helping him either.
Rice does what it says on the tin, i don't think he is particularly overrated as i did not hear many raving about him anyway.
The Birmingham McTominay.
In euro this time it's Kane. It's like playing with Lukaku when he's a bit knackered.
Sad but true. But Bayern fans and Bundesliga crusaders won't have it.
Sad but true. But Bayern fans and Bundesliga crusaders won't have it.
I was underwhelmed by Foden and Bellingham in this tournament, but Southgate created that problem by playing Kane up front, not taking a proper left back to play instead of Trippier, and creating a congested area up the field with little width.
In terms of performance to reputation, Kane was by far the worst IMO. Last night was a summary of everything wrong with him in that team, no pace to chase balls down or press, unable to jump to win high balls, caused the depth of the team to compress by constantly dropping deeper, and not being in the box for balls in. He looked out of place in the structure, too desperate to get involved in build up, and didn't really do anything in front of goal when he decided to show up there. I assume he's carrying an injury, because whilst I know some of these things are part of his general play style, some of them looked like a physical issue.
In terms of performance to reputation, Kane was by far the worst IMO. Last night was a summary of everything wrong with him in that team, no pace to chase balls down or press, unable to jump to win high balls, caused the depth of the team to compress by constantly dropping deeper, and not being in the box for balls in. He looked out of place in the structure, too desperate to get involved in build up, and didn't really do anything in front of goal when he decided to show up there. I assume he's carrying an injury, because whilst I know some of these things are part of his general play style, some of them looked like a physical issue.
I rate him, but this is his legacy
I think Bellinghams had the most overrated tournament, in the sense of outside of the overhead kick to send it to extra time, he hasn’t really played to the level we expect.
Kanes been atrocious all tournament.
Foden for how the media seems to treat him like Messi when outside of 45 minutes against Holland he hasn’t looked anywhere near his club level.
Kanes been atrocious all tournament.
Foden for how the media seems to treat him like Messi when outside of 45 minutes against Holland he hasn’t looked anywhere near his club level.
This is because, unlike at his club, he's expected to play on the halfway line. The clubs he has played for always provide for him on the wings. England attempted this during the tournament and had to tactically reshuffle, having neither a natural left-winger in attack or defence.
The first miss includes a tremendous save from the goalie, but I do get your point.
My choice is Pickford, though. Makes a half decent save now and again, pulls a face and has the commentators cream over him.
It's not fair to judge 'em on their performances under Southgate.
That Kane role, for instance, is just - a shit idea. What's he supposed to do in that role in order to look half impressive? Turn into a genuinely brilliant playmaker? He isn't that, never was: he can add something in that department, yes, but he isn't actually a playmaker.
Convert one of the 2-3 half decent opportunities he gets per game to finish? Yes, that would make him look better - but it's hardly grand working conditions.
Kane may be somewhat overrated by some people, sure - but his performances for England under a sub par manager is neither here nor there.
That Kane role, for instance, is just - a shit idea. What's he supposed to do in that role in order to look half impressive? Turn into a genuinely brilliant playmaker? He isn't that, never was: he can add something in that department, yes, but he isn't actually a playmaker.
Convert one of the 2-3 half decent opportunities he gets per game to finish? Yes, that would make him look better - but it's hardly grand working conditions.
Kane may be somewhat overrated by some people, sure - but his performances for England under a sub par manager is neither here nor there.
Pre-tournament it was definitely Foden. Gary Neville in particular was talking him up as some generational talent who England must build around, despite the fact he's never actually played well for England.
Rice and Bellingham became stronger contenders as the tournament progressed though.
Rice and Bellingham became stronger contenders as the tournament progressed though.
This has been Kane for years. I kept saying it when he was on about 40 goals that this guy is going to PK his way to the England record, and he just chipped away at Rooney’s record one pen at a time.
I don’t even know what life after Kane looks like for England though. Football has changed in general and there are far fewer 9s coming through. Most top clubs either don’t play with one, or have one who is simply not as good a player as their other forwards that they keep just to have that 9 option in their squads. Alexander Isak is something of a Unicorn at the moment for me. He’s the best, and I’d say only, even - top class 9 under 25 that has genuine all round too class footballing quality and doesn’t require a top team to sacrifice approach in return for goals. The likes of Osimhen, Haaland, Nunez are all poor to average footballers who just have physical gifts that teams probably tolerate in return for goals, but is not their ideal profile.
Greenwood was the one who I thought could be England’s 9 after Kane, but realistically, despite all their young talent there is no obvious candidate in that position.
I don’t even know what life after Kane looks like for England though. Football has changed in general and there are far fewer 9s coming through. Most top clubs either don’t play with one, or have one who is simply not as good a player as their other forwards that they keep just to have that 9 option in their squads. Alexander Isak is something of a Unicorn at the moment for me. He’s the best, and I’d say only, even - top class 9 under 25 that has genuine all round too class footballing quality and doesn’t require a top team to sacrifice approach in return for goals. The likes of Osimhen, Haaland, Nunez are all poor to average footballers who just have physical gifts that teams probably tolerate in return for goals, but is not their ideal profile.
Greenwood was the one who I thought could be England’s 9 after Kane, but realistically, despite all their young talent there is no obvious candidate in that position.
Bellingham and Kane for me. Couldn't trap wind.
Foden by far. Can't see how the others are overrated at all, to be honest.
I'm in the minority but I think he could have done better for the winner, some reason he's moving left instead of staying put and gets wrong footed.
Much better shout.
Mediocre keeper at the highest level (at best). Hardly has a game without some very questionable involvements (and frequently because he tries to be "brave"). Dubious positioning, unreliable in the area, etc.
(That said, he isn't positively overrated by anyone outside a certain segment of the English media.)
This tournament it has to be Rice, which is surprising as I thought he was excellent for Arsenal but seems like his deficiencies were just well covered there.
Consistent issue all tournament was the lack of purposeful possession and control we had in the middle of the park. Even against weak teams we shat the bed trying to play through the lines and meant we went backwards and sideways struggling to break teams down. Mainoo made a difference but he’s still developing physically and needed to get on the ball more.
Rice for a £100m midfielder was poor in possession all tournament. He’s spoken about and pitched by the media as world class but not being able to control games is the most important function of a midfield role. Despite having other qualities, in that sense he clearly is overrated and he was outclassed last night.
I do think there’s an interesting football culture angle to this too. Rice clearly has ability and facets to his game which are top level, but at the same time he wouldn’t get close to this Spain team because he’s so limited on the ball.
It’s interesting as in our media / football culture he’s viewed as a top player, but in another he’d struggle to get a look in as a squad player. I think it’s definitely something we need to address potentially down at grassroots level. I’ve seen first hand at academies how even now physicality is prioritised over technical ability.
Consistent issue all tournament was the lack of purposeful possession and control we had in the middle of the park. Even against weak teams we shat the bed trying to play through the lines and meant we went backwards and sideways struggling to break teams down. Mainoo made a difference but he’s still developing physically and needed to get on the ball more.
Rice for a £100m midfielder was poor in possession all tournament. He’s spoken about and pitched by the media as world class but not being able to control games is the most important function of a midfield role. Despite having other qualities, in that sense he clearly is overrated and he was outclassed last night.
I do think there’s an interesting football culture angle to this too. Rice clearly has ability and facets to his game which are top level, but at the same time he wouldn’t get close to this Spain team because he’s so limited on the ball.
It’s interesting as in our media / football culture he’s viewed as a top player, but in another he’d struggle to get a look in as a squad player. I think it’s definitely something we need to address potentially down at grassroots level. I’ve seen first hand at academies how even now physicality is prioritised over technical ability.
Bellingham.
Shocking tournament.
Shocking tournament.
This tourney it's Kane. Been a total, Ronaldo-esqe drain on the team.
If Toney or Watkins or even Solanke or Abraham has played instead, they'd have offered more.
He must've been playing with an injury, right?
If Toney or Watkins or even Solanke or Abraham has played instead, they'd have offered more.
He must've been playing with an injury, right?
To be fair pretty much every halfway decent English player is viewed as a top player. So I don't think it has much to do with prioritizing physicality.
I don't know, it's a great ball in and very hard to deal with for a keeper or defender, defender in that position can't risk a touch or it's probably going in. Pickford can stand his ground maybe a bit better, he looks like he's gambled going for the low claim in anticipation for it being missed which is understandable.
Personally I just don't think he's all that good or handles the pressure of big games well. Like I said earlier just seems to like making a meal of dealing with stuff around the box. Another big game for England and another one where he's just booted the ball as far as he could at every opportunity, at that level you'll never win against teams like Spain if you're doing that.
I think the majority of them are good player - really good players. But if they perform a lot better for their club than their country - the problem might not be the player.
Kane didn't look fit - but he is not an overrated player. He just had a shit tournament. Same with Foden - what he does for City every week doesn't make him overrated.
Kane didn't look fit - but he is not an overrated player. He just had a shit tournament. Same with Foden - what he does for City every week doesn't make him overrated.
Yeah, but for me he has never looked like that kind of player - and I wouldn't expect him to actually control games in the manner of a genuine DLP (or anything close to that). He obviously isn't Pirlo.
His strength lies in the - let's say - non-creative areas, surely. He can play a nice pass forward and he can keep hold of the ball whilst under pressure, but it's not something he actually excels at.
For me, he's another example of: "don't judge 'em under Southgate". You say his weaknesses are masked when he plays for Arsenal (I'm paraphrasing) - and yes, perhaps so! But that's part and parcel of effectively coaching/managing a player, surely - you set up in a manner which gets the most out of your players.
ETA Speaking of control/remaining in possession: for me the main culprit there has to be Bellingham. He seemed all over the place in this tournament, very unreliable in possession - kept giving the ball away needlessly with overhit/underhit passes. And not just high-risk passes (where you'd expect less than 100% accuracy), but fairly simple ones.
(Of course, he also showed examples of why he's a genuinely very dangerous player - just saying: he has a lot to go on in terms of being a composed and more "complete" midfielder).
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Foden has been massively disappointing thid tournament, no goals or assists and it seemed like he gave the ball away a lot
Foden is brilliant for City, United fans should know this because he always scored against us. The problem is he plays RW or CAM. He hasn’t been played in correct position all tournament.
Bellingham is exactly the same. Has played as a false 9 for Real Madrid all season with no CF. He’s had to deal with Kane and Foden all fighting for the same space. Unfortunately he has been hyped as the next messiah by British media and pundits.
Kane was never fit and shouldn’t have started.
All the above is on the manager for not making the right decisions.
Bellingham is exactly the same. Has played as a false 9 for Real Madrid all season with no CF. He’s had to deal with Kane and Foden all fighting for the same space. Unfortunately he has been hyped as the next messiah by British media and pundits.
Kane was never fit and shouldn’t have started.
All the above is on the manager for not making the right decisions.
Trippier
I read a lot how Kane is good in Bayern system, Foden in City system, Rice in Arsenal system, Trent in Liverpool system etc. etc. - but they are all crap for England. How come Southgate cannot create any system where at least one of them is good?
Foden
You have to be really careful going too overboard with players from the Pep machine. There's so many examples of players producing huge G+A numbers in his team's who then can't produce anything like it elsewhere
Don't get me wrong, he's clearly very talented but in real life he isn't the force he appears to be when inside that financially doped up well oiled machine
You have to be really careful going too overboard with players from the Pep machine. There's so many examples of players producing huge G+A numbers in his team's who then can't produce anything like it elsewhere
Don't get me wrong, he's clearly very talented but in real life he isn't the force he appears to be when inside that financially doped up well oiled machine
Foden
Wasn't true at Spurs at all, he also came deep.
Yeah, bingo.
We can nitpick about all sorts of things when it comes to individual players, but it's pretty obvious that England's problem wasn't a lack of individual quality.
He's always done that (ever since he emerged as a genuine top class player). But he isn't a playmaker, he isn't someone who can remain deep for long stretches and influence the game from there.
To put it in old-school terms, he has traits that make him a very plausible "second striker" - but not an actual No10/whatever you want to call it. He is first and foremost a finisher - you have to factor that in when you devise a game plan.
Gary Neville called Phil Foden the best number ten in world football and nobody said boo, so on that basis alone it's Foden.
Surprised at the mention of Sterling, I always thought he was one of our most consistent players at previous tournaments.
Kane, I have not been a real fan of him for years, whether it be club or Country, I think both his clubs and country look more fluid in attack without him and too much of the team has to adapt to his style.
England suffered the same issue Portugal had with ronaldo in this tournament where they were basically playing with 10 men.
Foden is a close 2nd but he can at least play in a fluid attack but I don't believe he is any better than sancho when he is in the right system as seen at dortmund
England suffered the same issue Portugal had with ronaldo in this tournament where they were basically playing with 10 men.
Foden is a close 2nd but he can at least play in a fluid attack but I don't believe he is any better than sancho when he is in the right system as seen at dortmund
He should have been picked if southgate had no trust in Gordon as sterling is the perfect type of inside forward that is needed when you have kane up front dropping deep
Bellingham: his Euro's performance must be at the top of this particular list. Jude is we know capable of superb moments (as with overhead goal), but he sometimes seem to think he still has his mates from Real Madrid around him when he goes off on these amazing-type runs/dribbles, but always seems to take it a step too far, and loses possession, when clearly none of his colleagues in the England team seem to know what he is aiming for!
Rice: needs a more skillful partner beside him, or another brawler (like Philips) to do the donkey work. Rice clearly hasn't learned to trust Mainoo yet and only gives him the ball when he (Rice) is desperate. A number of times against Spain Mainoo was available in tight spaces to play 'wally type' passes, to move England up the pitch, but Rice declined.
Harry: was not fully fit (in my opinion) and/or without his mojo. If the team is ever going to go on the front foot Harry will be surplus to requirements, unless he stays between the posts.
Saka: Cannot see much wrong with him, honest and skillful with a wicked left foot, which he demonstrated admirably.
Foden: fish out of water at the moment with the England set up
Rice: needs a more skillful partner beside him, or another brawler (like Philips) to do the donkey work. Rice clearly hasn't learned to trust Mainoo yet and only gives him the ball when he (Rice) is desperate. A number of times against Spain Mainoo was available in tight spaces to play 'wally type' passes, to move England up the pitch, but Rice declined.
Harry: was not fully fit (in my opinion) and/or without his mojo. If the team is ever going to go on the front foot Harry will be surplus to requirements, unless he stays between the posts.
Saka: Cannot see much wrong with him, honest and skillful with a wicked left foot, which he demonstrated admirably.
Foden: fish out of water at the moment with the England set up
Issue is he can see, or should see Oyzarbyol is running to the near post towards him and the ball, given the covering defender, between him and the direction of the ball, it can only be touched back towards the near post, covering the middle is a little poor in my opinion. I am being hyper critical but he didn't need to move to the middle of the goal, if he stays put, he foot saves it imo.
Southgate, with Kane a very close second. He’s the feckin captain for feck’s sake.